So we have a tenant that is complaining a mold problem she says from the fact her ceiling was leaking. The FIRST thing she did was call the city inspector that read the riot act about people living in a moldy enviornment,..made me get a mold test guy that said,..at the time wasn't bad and the city backed off,..so now the same area has a small leak again and the tenant is on the warpath. She says she can't sleep because of "all the mold" Apparently she has been on the Internet at a tenants forum/s. and says we should put her up somewhere until the problem is resolved,..

Several problems, I have called numerous people,..roofers and handy people,..NO ONE has returned my calls..Including guys that have done work for us before.This seems typical lately.

Secondly this is by far the worst unit as far as clutter we have (out of over 20)

The last time the roof was fixed,a few years ago,..several guys DID go into her apt and told me they couldn't do anything to patch and remove the supposed mold there (spraying anti mold and a little spackling and paint,..they didn't want to go back.(also didn't want to deal with her)

So my question,..I would like her to move,..not just for this complaint but she is a general PITA,.

If I send her a notice to move (she is a MTM but I understand I have to offer 90 days because she has been there 3 years)

I know she is going to fight that as there are pretty much NO apts available around here except for very expensive ones. and when I suggested that last time she blew up an said that and she would fight any attempt to remove here.

So if I try,...can we say we need to clear the unit to fix things until then,.. we can't guarantee mold free or can she push that we need to fix the problem no matter what.

Can we close down the unit? And what about the possible 3 months of the time it would take to actually require her to move?

MOLD is the not so new code from tenants for I want to make my LL miserable. Even if you've never done anything wrong-- they gitcha and they and the Renters forumn know it.

You gotta fix the leak-- so dig deep to find someone to fix it. Then test ASAP to be sure mold isn't deadly type. Next clean it up-- either new section of ceilig or tile.

Lets face it if you don't fix it-- she's gonna keep calling people until your n the hok for a hotel the next 3 months.

Document all you are doing.

When you have it solve-- notice to terminate lease. We've decided to sell and need to rehab the whole unit. Proper notice needs to be given.

MOLD is the not so new code from tenants for I want to make my LL miserable. Even if you've never done anything wrong-- they gitcha and they and the Renters forumn know it.

You gotta fix the leak-- so dig deep to find someone to fix it. Then test ASAP to be sure mold isn't deadly type. Next clean it up-- either new section of ceilig or tile.

Lets face it if you don't fix it-- she's gonna keep calling people until your n the hok for a hotel the next 3 months.

Document all you are doing.

When you have it solve-- notice to terminate lease. We've decided to sell and need to rehab the whole unit. Proper notice needs to be given.

MOLD is the not so new code from tenants for I want to make my LL miserable. Even if you've never done anything wrong-- they gitcha and they and the Renters forumn know it.

You gotta fix the leak-- so dig deep to find someone to fix it. Then test ASAP to be sure mold isn't deadly type. Next clean it up-- either new section of ceilig or tile.

Lets face it if you don't fix it-- she's gonna keep calling people until your n the hok for a hotel the next 3 months.

Document all you are doing.

When you have it solve-- notice to terminate lease. We've decided to sell and need to rehab the whole unit. Proper notice needs to be given.

MOLD is the not so new code from tenants for I want to make my LL miserable. Even if you've never done anything wrong-- they gitcha and they and the Renters forumn know it.

You gotta fix the leak-- so dig deep to find someone to fix it. Then test ASAP to be sure mold isn't deadly type. Next clean it up-- either new section of ceilig or tile.

Lets face it if you don't fix it-- she's gonna keep calling people until your n the hok for a hotel the next 3 months.

Document all you are doing.

When you have it solve-- notice to terminate lease. We've decided to sell and need to rehab the whole unit. Proper notice needs to be given.

I understand the difficulty in finding someone to do the work. Especially if they have been there before and found the situation difficult to work with.

This is why I end up doing many things myself that I would otherwise hire out.

It needs to be repaired. If you are handy - or can follow instructional videos online - remove old & replace new ceiling yourself. Have a helper - don't be in there alone. Anyone sober will do.

First, give proper written notice to enter to do requested repairs. List everything the tenant must do to be ready for the repair to be done (remove items from the area, make sure workers have clear access in and out, etc). All things that will show a judge one day that you have been very reasonable.

IF it happens that you arrive to do the work at the appointed time, and discover the area is inaccessible, immediately document it in a letter to the tenant.

If she is rude, cursing, insulting to the worker/you while working(if that's what you mean by "blew up"), inform her that if it does not stop immediately, work will cease. If you do need to stop work, send another letter stating what happened.

These things will help you to show a judge (inevitable) all that you have done to try to fix the problem, and all she has done to delay the repair.

Good luck!

HI THERE IS A GREAT DEAL WRITTEN ABOUT 'MOLD' ALTHOUGH ONE SHOULD US THE TERM MILDEW

CDA...YA KNOW THE FOLKS THAT LEGESLATE LAW WITHOUT AUTHORITY

SO USING CDS ONLY :

MILDEW OR MOLD: see also environmental.

EPA 402-K-02-003 & CDC

Individuals with sensitivities or persistent symptoms should see their physician; remove the cause or themselves from it.

'Time is of the essence' & reporting this is an 'affirmative duty' for the tenants.

*At present of the 200-common mildew/molds, there is no test that proves an association between stachybotrys chartarum (stachybotrys atra) or other mildew/molds, and particular health symptoms.

The good news is that most mold does not pose a significant health risk, and even so-called "black mold" or "toxic mold" is unlikely to create a danger to occupants of a home.

Most mold appears to be dark or black in color, so the fact that mold looks black does not indicate that it is particularly dangerous or toxic.

From the Centers for Disease Control (CDC)

Mildew & Mold and the spores have been on the Earth for millions of years. They are present both inside and outside.

Everyone breaths them every day.

Spores grow where there is air & moisture.

There is always some mildew or mold spores everywhere - in the air and on many surfaces, cloths, wood or about anyplace it can land or attach.

Mold is a fungus, neither plant nor animal, and related to mushrooms and of course cheese.

Moisture, two common sources.

Most commonly moisture inside is from interior condensation or humidity. this is typically the source.

Humidity is controlled by the tenants, and it is their responsibility to control and remove.

Failure at this can affect the interior paint and surfaces. damage that can be attributed to the tenants.

Of the thousands of types of mildew or mold on a very few are known to be detrimental, and not to everyone.

Interior: the space controlled by the tenant.

If or when leaks or spills occur act quickly. If wet or damp areas are dried 24-48 hours in most cases mildew or mold will not grow.

Keep indoor humidity low. Below 60 percent (ideally between 30 and 50 percent) relative humidity.

Relative humidity can be measured with a moisture or humidity meter, a small, inexpensive ($10-$50) available at many hardware stores.

Mildew or Mold:

Blooming mildew or mold does not magically appear, when moist, the spores grow over time and for a reason.

EPA:

Is testing or sampling if needed?

In most cases, sampling is unnecessary since, NO EPA or other Govt. or Federal standards have been set for mildew or mold exposure.

Nor are there any over the counter (OTC) or retail tests that are reliable to any degree more than 6%.

A certified lab may have a test for the type of mildew or mold.

Checking or sampling: EPA WEB SITE

Spores, sampling cannot be used to check a building's compliance NO EPA or other Federal limits have been set for mildew or mold.

Sampling for mold should be conducted by professionals who have specific experience in designing mold sampling protocols, sampling methods, and interpreting results, not a company the remediates mildew and mold, as they have a 'vested interest' in finding them.

Rather an independent lab that is certified for such testing.

Surface sampling may be useful to determine if an area has been adequately cleaned or remediated.

Forces Air duct work: epa.gov/mold/mold course/chapter 2. there are NO antimicrobial products approved for use on lined ductwork.

Contamination: Can mean, mold spores simply lying on a dry surface.

Spores are present or airborne everywhere, inside and outside.

HEPA-vacuuming and cleaning soft-surface or hard surface items like walls or counter tops, as part of mold remediation is a prudent practice.

Generally, both hard and soft-surface items that are contaminated in this way are easily cleaned.

Colonization:

If a soft-surface OR hard surface becomes wet, (humidity) then colonization can occur.

This may be defined as mold growth within materials such as fabric, cushions, cloths, beds, etc. Once colonization has occurred, it becomes difficult to clean the item to acceptable levels.

The cause of the moisture/wet or causes will need to be determined.

Epa website. Epa.gov /mold/moldresourses.html

Inside condensation (moisture on walls and windows, on or in furniture as an example) can be a sign of high humidity and is typically the cause of mildews/molds.

Reduce the source of moisture or increase ventilation.

On windows, walls or pipes or hard surfaces and soft surfaces, act quickly to dry .and reduce the moisture/water source.

Actions that will help to reduce humidity

Vent appliances that produce moisture outside, such as clothes dryers, stoves, and kerosene heaters to (combustion appliances such as stoves and kerosene heaters produce water vapor and will increase the humidity unless vented to the outside.)

Fan/s, open window, use air conditioners and/or de-humidifiers when needed.

Run the bathroom fan or open the window when showering and for a time afterward until the humidity is normal.

Use exhaust fans or open windows whenever, bathing/showering, cooking, running the dishwasher or dishwashing, etc.

Actions that will help prevent condensation & reduce the humidity:

Increase ventilation or air movement by opening doors and/or windows, when practical. Use fans as needed.

AT BEST THESE TESTS IDENTIFY MOLD BY GENUS. YOU NEED TO GO DOWN TO THE SPECIES BECAUSE EACH GENUS HAS HUNDREDS OF SPECIES, MOST OF WHICH ARE NOT TOXIC. SOME FEW SPECIES OF PENNICILLIUM ARE DANGEROUS, BUT THAT OTHER SPECIES WERE USED TO MAKE THE VITAMIN C TABLET YOU TOOK.

WHERE IT COMES FROM:

YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO TEST THE OTHER PLACES YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN FREQUENT---SCHOOL, CHURCH, DAY CARE, YOUR CAR, YOUR MOTHER'S HOUSE, THEIR FRIENDS' HOMES. ALL THESE AND MORE ARE JUST AS LIKELY TO BE A PLACE ONE MAY BE EXPOSED, BESIDE THE HOME.

MEDICAL CAUSATION

A QUALIFIED HEALTHCARE SPECIALIST, PHYSICIAN WOULD NEED TO TESTIFY, BUT TENANTS STILL NEED TO SHOW THE CAUSE/LOCATION COULD ONLY BE THE HOME, THEN, YOU WILL NEED TO PROVIDE THE TEST RESULTS FROM A CERTIFIED AND LICENSED LAB, TO SUPPORT A MEDICAL OPINION ON CAUSATION. THIS IS VERY DIFFICULT.

LIABILITY OF A LANDLORD?

YOU WILL NEED TO PROVE THAT THE LANDLORD AND HOME ARE SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CONDITION, TO THE EXCLUSION OF ANY OTHER SOURCE OR REASON.

MILDEW OR MOLD REPORT: SHORT OF DISCOVERY IN LITIGATION, A LANDLORD SHOULD HAVE NO LEGAL REQUIREMENT TO PROVIDE A TENANT WITH ANY REPORT.

THERMAL TRACKING OR “SOOT TRACKING”:

OFTEN MISTAKEN FOR MILDEW OR MOLD, THIS OCCURS WHEN WARM MOISTURE-LADEN AIR TOUCHES THE COOLER SURFACE OF A WALL OR CEILING, GIVING UP SOME OF ITS MOISTURE TO THE SURFACE AS CONDENSATION.

AS AIR MOVES BY NATURAL CONVECTION THROUGH THE BUILDING, IT TYPICALLY FLOWS UP WALLS AND CEILINGS THUS DEPOSITING THE PARTICULATES ONTO THE COOLER SURFACE.

IT MAY BE FOUND WHEREVER MOISTURE CONDENSES ON COOL SURFACES.

GHOSTING IS THE TERM USED TO DESCRIBE THE DARK STREAKS THAT DEVELOP ON WALLS AND CEILINGS AS A RESULT OF THE THERMAL TELEGRAPHING WHICH IS THE EVIDENCE LEFT BEHIND WHEN PARTICULATES (DIRT, SOOT, SMOKE, ETC) IN THE AIR ARE DEPOSITED ON COOLER SURFACES OR THOSE WITH INADEQUATE VENTILATION OR AIR EXCHANGE.

You know, she has a RIGHT to complain about mold.

And YOU have obligations to her as a result.

Now that she has made a complaint to City Inspector, you are subject to NY Retaliatory Eviction law, so that YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO SEND HER ANY EFFECTIVE NOTICE TO MOVE. It is a chore to read the NY Retaliatory Eviction law ( NY Real Prop L § 223-B (2015) ) but it seems to basically say that she cannot be evicted PLUS LL is liable for civil suit for damages. Thus, giving her notice to move is probably the best way possible to make yourself liable for having to put her up somewhere, and maybe more.

Check with a lawyer and FIX THE DOGGONE MOLD before you get yourself into even more trouble.

I agree with Moshe, inasmuch that the mold needs to be taken care of. Not next week, but asap.

This is a real health issue concerning the tenant. If she gets sick and ends up in the hospital, you will be liable for her expenses, if the doctor says the issue is indeed mold.

Call her and make an appointment. Document everything. Get to work and never go there alone. Fix the problem. Move on.

If "I" cold I would,..but health issues and distance stops me from working on units. I can't seem to find anyone to work there.Some never call back,..some after they see the condition of how she keeps the unit,,and all of the junk there,they refuse to go back.

This is not a rough property,this is the only substandard one in the building, because of how her sanitary lack of efforts.

She has been warned about this several times before. The allergy might be from the general condition of the apt.

But none the less we are trying to get the roof patched/coated. Asked a number of people some roofers, some handypeople,.

So much discussion about the mold / mildew, but why are you continuously having a leak? Fix the leak first and fix it right so it doesn't come back. You don't mention if the ceiling is drywall (I assume) or plaster. If drywall, let the tenant know they have to move stuff out of the room so you can get a contractor in to replace the ceiling and have a drywall guy ready to hand fresh drywall.

By the way, there literally are thousands of different types of mold, almost all of them are black. The only one that poses any threat (minimal) to anyone (usually with pre-existing health conditions) is stachybotrys mold.

In our area, there are ‘emergency services’ contractors, though I imagine they are not cheap. This might be the time for one of those contractors. National firms like ServePro exist too, though in my area, Giertson has a good reputation.

Then, when enough time has past that it won’t be deemed retaliatory eviction, sounds like it’s time for this tenant to go. The unit needs a big refresh.

Busy pointed you in the right direction. Call servepro or a company like them.

Ed is spot on.

And the time to address the issue BEFORE it becomes an issue. I will look into my crystal ball and see that your resident isn't going to be happy about the work that has to get done to repair this issue.

I am hoping this is a call to action for others as winter is coming. I understand that COVID prevented actions on the maintenance side of the business. NOW is the time to get them caught up.

We're dealing with the same issue, but our tenant is nicer. We have put on a new roof, that wasn't the problem like we thought. I have plans to cover the non-used chimney flue to prevent water from coming down that. Gutters were ordered & never have been installed. We're going to have our handyman lay plastic on the ground/crawl space.

A man died in our property and was in it for several days before found. You could see the body stain on the sub-flooring but we didn't know what it was at the time. I've wondered if that has anything to do with our problem.

If the dripping is occurring in only one area Pat, can you have your HVAC folks build a drip pan and drain it outdoors?