Tenant Pool is Bad (by GKARL [PA]) Jul 13, 2021 12:53 PM|
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Jason [VA]) Jul 13, 2021 1:13 PM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by J [FL]) Jul 13, 2021 1:16 PM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Annie [IN]) Jul 13, 2021 1:19 PM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by GKARL [PA]) Jul 13, 2021 1:38 PM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Sisco [MO]) Jul 13, 2021 1:56 PM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Annie [IN]) Jul 13, 2021 2:09 PM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by S i d [MO]) Jul 13, 2021 2:13 PM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Robert J [CA]) Jul 13, 2021 2:17 PM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by GKARL [PA]) Jul 13, 2021 2:30 PM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Ken [NY]) Jul 13, 2021 2:51 PM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by SHAUN [FL]) Jul 13, 2021 3:03 PM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by J [FL]) Jul 13, 2021 3:14 PM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by GKARL [PA]) Jul 13, 2021 3:25 PM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Allym [NJ]) Jul 13, 2021 3:44 PM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by J [FL]) Jul 13, 2021 3:54 PM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by GKARL [PA]) Jul 13, 2021 4:22 PM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by myob [GA]) Jul 13, 2021 4:28 PM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Chris [VA]) Jul 13, 2021 5:38 PM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by J [FL]) Jul 13, 2021 6:59 PM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Dodge [PA]) Jul 13, 2021 7:38 PM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by mike [CA]) Jul 14, 2021 11:18 AM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Stephen [TX]) Jul 14, 2021 11:44 AM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Jul 14, 2021 8:08 PM
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Sir Walter [NC]) Jul 15, 2021 9:07 AM
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Tenant Pool is Bad (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 12:53 PM
The tenant pool in my area has gotten considerably worst. I've never encountered like this before. This is why I have to consider the "least worst" when looking at applicants rather than shooting for the ideal. No one is going to hit all criteria and there are many who just won't make it at all. I had one who put in an application who had a previous eviction and claimed it was due to a divorce. Called the prior LL who had "nothing good to say". That was probably a step that I wasted time on but wanted to be fair. Income was shaky as well. I rejected them, Got the following e-mail from her daughter today:
"I was a co-applicant with my mother for one of your properties Apologies for not sending this as an email as I do not have your email address. However, I am concern as to why we didn't get the chance to rent out the property.. Yes yes I do understand it was due to the eviction but you must understand that the eviction was not her fault. In fact it was due to personal reasons which if she so choose to explain I will allow her too. The property that we are at now, we've payed our rent on time with this month being an exception as I was in and out of the hospital which I've contacted my landlord about. Aside from that moment, we have a good relationship with our landlord and the only reason why we are being told we have to find a new place was because of the city and the landlord failing the inspection. I'm sure my mother told you that when she went to the open house last week. Please sir, all I am asking is that you give us a chance to show you that we are good tenants. I've moved a lot as a child and the last thing I want to happen is for my brother to basically repeat history."
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Jason [VA]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 1:13 PM
Every deadbeat has a story to tell if you let them.
If the tenant pool quality is low, it's time to upgrade the property so that it attracts a higher tiered applicant. --73.177.xxx.xx
Tenant Pool is Bad (by J [FL]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 1:16 PM
I'm having the same problem. Worst pool ever. I blame covid and all the stuff thats happened over the past year. --72.188.xxx.xxx
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Annie [IN]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 1:19 PM
I agree. This is the worst we have seen in 35 years as landlords. Used to be you could advertise a property (and back then, we did not have the avenues we have today!), and would have it filled within a week.
We have had a 2 BR apartment in one of our complexes advertised for 6 weeks. The applications we have gotten have been abysmal. They are looking for a landlord that works on the premise, "if they are breathing and have the move-in funds, they are accepted". We do not work that way.
We realize that COVID has played havoc with employment, and would be willing to work with someone that had had to change jobs recently, IF only they had demonstrated some "stick to it" prior to the pandemic. These people today think you should take them when they change jobs every 3 to 6 months on a regular basis. They think it is normal. I guess we are old fashioned in that way, but to us, it goes to character.
Tenant Pool is Bad (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 1:38 PM
I think covid exacerbated some underlying issues. There are two issues that I think are the problem: 1) Raggedy lifestyles and 2) Patience to see something through. The latter relates to jobs and working IMO. Most don't have a strategic vision for their lives which give one the patience to start at the low end on the totem pole and work one's way up. They want it now and don't want to work for it. There are various and sundry reasons for that but prominent among them is popular media that promotes consumption over thrift and hard work.
The key thing I look for is consistent employment and I understand a temporary disruption due to Covid. In most instances, Covid induced unemployment has not been the issue behind rejections.
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Sisco [MO]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 1:56 PM
I have mentioned it before,if your applicants creditworthiness changes for the worse, change the marketing approach.
Reminder: 5-6 years ago, every LL used Craigslist, then region by region the forum posters here reported that CL only provided applicants who were scammers and homeless. Until it happened in your area, it seemed to only be a problem for those in a different state, but it soon covered the nation and now no here one uses CL Then we shifted to Z, and FB ma rketpl ace. These platform services seem to have useful life that ends.
At the advent of internet marketing we al built websites to advertise, but few use them for advertising purposes now and fewer still post Y out ub e videos as we did 10-12 years ago to improve our search engine optimization.
My hunch is the good quality renters are leasing through leasing agents and property management companies in larger numbers than ever before nowadays.
If this is in fact the case, we need to appear more credible, professional to get a shot at their business.
The alternative is to deal with the pool of desperate, problem tenants moving from one place to another. Hoping that this group will improve enough for a LL to operate profitably is a fools errand.
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Annie [IN]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 2:09 PM
We have had a number of prospects call through some of our advertising. They all want to tell their life (sob) story, and I really don't want to listen to their sob stories.
I have had a few contact us through the internet, and want us to call them, or want a number to call us. Again, I don't want to listen to a number of sob stories.
Maybe I am being callous, but my time is more valuable than that. --209.132.xxx.xxx
Tenant Pool is Bad (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 2:13 PM
GKARL, I like you a lot and have enjoyed many of your past posts. I say this because thise is going to sound like a doosie. That's not my intention. Rather, I want to help you (and others) who have been upset by the state of affairs in the world to refocus and succeed.
Regardless of whether or not the pool is worse, we have businesses to run. This is an investment, not a 18-month-long pity party. I've never heard so much WHINING about "how bad things are" over the past 18 months.
I had my best year ever in 2020, and 2021 is even better so far. I didn't sit still. I made a ton of changes. I cut off stuff (and people) that weren't working and focused on finding the ones that do. That doesn't just mean tenants: it means contractors, business associates, and even old modes / plans of operating.
1) I tweaked and cemented in my 2-minute in home inspection process. Zero eviction so far from anyone I've done this too.
2) I now insist on ACH payments as an applicant qualification. Anyone who fails to qualify for a checking account isn't one I wish to spend time doing business with. Too. Much. Drama.
3) Leases are all e-signature now.
4) Move-ins are being automated. Still working it, but getting very close. Thanks to Kyle and Alison for teaching me on this one.
5) Restarted meet ups with fellow successful land lords. I can't believe how much this re-energizes me.
All that said....are we facing unprecedented challenges? Yes. So what? Successful investors find opportunity where others find excuses.
If anyone believes their local crop of residential renters are getting worse, I humbly suggest redeploying your capital where there are better opportunities.
1) Buy higher end units that appeal to well-qualified renters.
2) Buy commercial rentals that are less maintenance intensive and are still at low prices due to shut downs driving many small businesses out of business.
3) Buy mini-storage units so people have somewhere to put all the stuff they spent their stimulus checks on.
4) Get into nightly rentals where the renters are "pre-screened" by the reviews other owners have left and you can get them out quickly if there are any problems.
5) Buy stocks. They've been soaring over the past 18 months. I'm up over 300% on MGM stock alone.
6) Buy an existing "essential" business or if you don't have enough funds to do the whole thing get an ownership stake. Most of us should know several of those now. Things that are virtually pandemic proof and the Govt won't mess with your ability to earn (well, not too much anyway).
Bottom line: if tenants are truly as terrible as some people think, then there is nothing you, I, or anyone else here can do to fix it. As my old 1st sergeant in the Army said, "You can only polish a turd so much; it's still a stinking mess."
We can't stad motionless because "I've always done this (rentals) the same way." Do something different. Take a risk. But don't sit still and expect magic to fix life/renters/politics/the universe. The future belongs to those who seize it firmly in both hands.
All the best!
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 2:17 PM
I have a lot of apartment, mostly owned by myself, some with partners. With partnership properties, we only select those who meet with our minimum criteria. We would rather keep it vacant than give us all "issues".
But the units I own myself, I have found a few things helpful with finding a "body" to fill my vacancy --although not a perfect catch.
At a Mr. Landlord seminar, I picked up on a strategy, this was around 20 years ago. You find someone who's not perfect and just barely fits my wants. Any other normal landlord would have passed because not enough credit history, rental history or job history. But the applicant isn't a bad person, just "getting by". So if I give them my rental, they will be so grateful, they will pay the rent and stay a long time -- too costly to move and they were lucky to get my unit. These is for "C" class areas and also some "B" too.
I filled 32 units in the "hard times" with these types of tenants. FICO around 650. Debt on credit cards, only a couple of thousand and not for a HDTV but to pay car repairs or medical bills. Enough money in the bank come up with all of the move-in costs up front. And they work two jobs. One full time 32 hours a week and a second job with open doors, they can work as much as they need to, they have a needed talent. It could be cooking in a restaurant, cutting garments or working at a family business.
When they are going to be short on the rent, they give me a call before the first and pay as much as they can upfront and the balance when their next paycheck comes in. --47.155.xx.xxx
Tenant Pool is Bad (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 2:30 PM
I don't take exception to anything you said there. I've done many of the things on the rental end as far as e-signing and automated collections are concerned. I've starting to conclude that the area my rentals are in is the issue. It's improving in a positive way however, that has yet to be reflected in the tenant pool.
I purchased this particular place at a sheriff's sale and probably ungraded it beyond what the tenant demographic deserves and can afford. I have four more units coming on stream later in the year and I won't make that mistake. The finishes will be basic; durable but basic. I may consider a 1031, but that's difficult to do given the market right now. I could sell easily but may not be able to find a replacement property as easily. --209.122.xx.xxx
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 2:51 PM
Here is what i have realized lately,rents are going up in part because a lot of landlords are leaving units empty or selling.I am seeing people saying they cant find anything available to rent.I have a few unit and a partner has a bunch of units,he has 2 guys who work for him fulltime who do turnovers but for about 9 months now he cant keep them busy because noone is moving so he lets me borrow them so between us we have 2 good guys,he takes them when he needs them and i get them sometimes the full week sometimes 2-3 days for my flips or fixing a new unit i just bought.We have a tenant in a 2 family we are selling who is afraid she will have to move and said she wants to stay with my partner or myself,they paid through covid so at least i know what i have,they just got better jobs so they can afford more.I also have a sub 2 opportunity that the seller called me on a bandit sign,they want me to buy worse than i want the place so i will probably end up with it and put this couple in and i think they will stay long term,7 years the house will be paid off.I was going to stop buying rentals but i am nervous about upcoming inflation so i think i need to keep some more and with the inability of tenants to move i can pick and choose and have long term tenants --72.231.xxx.xxx
Tenant Pool is Bad (by SHAUN [FL]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 3:03 PM
Very interesting point of view. Good insight.
Tenant Pool is Bad (by J [FL]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 3:14 PM
@GKARL that makes sense.
@Sid I don't think people here are whining. They are perplexed and trying to figure out what is happening. News media presents stories of bidding wars and rents at an all time high, yet tenant pool has gotten worse for many on here, even though the properties may have been improved. --72.188.xxx.xxx
Tenant Pool is Bad (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 3:25 PM
I agree with your assessment. I am perplexed at the conditions in the market given high real estate prices and bidding wars. I fully expected I would have an easy time renting my units but that has not occurred. I think if we extrapolate these conditions further and consider the impact on real estate pricing, I would argue that investment real estate is overpriced at this point. Vacancy rates are going to be much higher which in turn means risk is higher also. That can only mean that real estate prices are going to drop particularly in C-Class areas. I don't think the market has recognized those conditions yet. Here's the thing though: it would not do any good to lower the rents. Most of these folks that have been rejected from the tenant pool would not qualify to rent at any level of rent. --172.58.xxx.xxx
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Allym [NJ]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 3:44 PM
Right now after July 4 nothing is "selling" on Ebay so people are on vacation and spending their money there. Anyone who needs to move but has a job etc and income, is taking last week and this week off for vacation and not thinking about their upcoming move. It's too darn hot. Only people who are being forced out are moving in this weather. That's why they are all bad.
Tenant Pool is Bad (by J [FL]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 3:54 PM
Exactly. They are still unreliable no matter how cheap you make the unit.
If this huge horde of grossly unqualified people is the new normal it's going to become a societal problem, not just a landlord problem. --72.188.xxx.xxx
Tenant Pool is Bad (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 4:22 PM
"If this huge horde of grossly unqualified people is the new normal it's going to become a societal problem, not just a landlord problem"
And these are the conditions before the expected eviction tsunami. We've got real problems for sure. --209.122.xx.xxx
Tenant Pool is Bad (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 4:28 PM
Robert we have been doing this for years. With 2 additions. We take lower scores but they must be on the same job for years. 2nd and more important-- may sound cruel -- we let them know they are on the last leg of renting. We emphasize we are there last chance to have a good place-- and not to Screw up!
Third: we have a robust collection company. We don't forgive or forget debt to the Landlord (us). Don't care how long it takes-- don't care if it drives you to BK.
60+SFH's we can't keep waiting on Mr. and Mrs. Perfect. --99.103.xxx.xxx
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Chris [VA]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 5:38 PM
Yes, it's a societal problem with people getting stuck in generational ruts of underachieving, partly due to John Dewey's warped educational goals of producing a dumbed-down compliant workforce. Fathers are often absent, kids spend too much time in age-segregated environments, and the world is going down the tubes. But that's another story.
But maybe this will help somebody find qualified tenants. As of 2020, I've been using NextDoor dot com for marketing available homes, with Facebook as my 2nd choice.
The beauty of posting homes on FB is that you can block anyone who is unqualified from seeing your future postings and from being able to contact you again. And you can check out their social media photos to see if they really don't smoke, if they really don't have cats, and if they show evidence of substance abuse or any other undesirable behavior. But the drawback of FB is that you sometimes have to sort through 150+ inquiries to find qualified prospects.
But I now start with NextDoor, which means I only get a handful of inquiries with a much higher percentage of them being qualified - probably at least 3 or 4 out of 5 would qualify. (I do this about a couple of weeks before I would typically market on FB.) Without many details, I only post that I "manage" rental homes in the area and that we will have something coming up w/ # of bedrooms & bathrooms & the neighborhood, etc. They should PM me if interested.
I can still go search them on social media. But before posting, I check ND to see if anyone is searching for a rental home, and then PM anyone who is looking. If that works, I don't need to make a public post at all.
Our new tenants in both 2020 & 2021 are from NextDoor. (Posting on FB is now just a backup plan, since there are fewer hits on NextDoor to wade through.) I wonder if anyone else has used NextDoor, and how that works in other places. It saves me a lot of time. --71.246.xxx.xxx
Tenant Pool is Bad (by J [FL]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 6:59 PM
I never thought of using Nextdoor to find renters...I thought that site was for posting about lost cats. I get new interesting ideas everytime I read this forum. Now just have to put them into action. --72.188.xxx.xxx
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Dodge [PA]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 7:38 PM
Reminds me of Nancy from Detroit who posted years ago. If I remember correctly her and her husband worked hard for a lifetime to own rentals to provide for their retirement. Then their area of Detroit went to nothing and they lost most of there properties.
Now may be a good time to sell some trouble places and shift to places that attract a better tenant. --174.198.xxx.xxx
Tenant Pool is Bad (by mike [CA]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2021 11:18 AM
if they don't qualify, they don't qualify. i'll leave it empty before i take a bite off a rotten apple. with only one exception have i not regretted making exceptions for poorly qualified applicants. while i certainly empathize with folks that are back on their heels for some reason...their situation in life is typically a result of an unbroken string of poor choices which i've learned is how those folks roll. years ago i had a client that loved renting his home with an option to buy. when i asked him why he'd do that he told me "i choose folks that are in their late 30's and have sketchy jobs and a credit report that stinks like a dumpster full of fish. nothing will change in 2-3 years. they won't be exercising that option". my ONLY exception to a low credit score is if it's a catastrophic medical event with the rest of the debts kept current. if their rental history with landlords is bad they get no second look. we learned this year that there are folks that love free rent and that governors love making gifts of OUR homes to those who think we are rich. having seen it happen in states from coast to coast, if we don't choose wisely it's ONLY our fault. thanks all for the reminder about Next door --75.80.xx.xx
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Stephen [TX]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2021 11:44 AM
Well this just means thereís going to have to be some sort of nationwide legislation that cuts down how strict screening criteria can be. Iíll make sure to save threads like this and forward them to every lawmaker I can find, and share them on Twitter and Facebook and Reddit so people know to be aware and hopefully enough people will take action. --98.198.xxx.xxx
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2021 8:08 PM
What does your marketing looking like?
Instead of shot gunning it out, very targeted marketing have worked well with me recently. --72.23.xxx.xx
Tenant Pool is Bad (by Sir Walter [NC]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2021 9:07 AM
Can you give one or two specific examples of your very targeted marketing?
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