I've never before fired a contractor half way through a job, but I'm about to.

Here's my plan - I just want to run it by y'all and see if I'm forgetting anything. And maybe get some better wording.

I plan to meet him Monday to pay him for the work already done. He's coming to the job site. Before giving him a check, I will have him sign a document I am creating. I need a W9, also. (oops! I forgot that before - need to get in the habit)

In that document, I'm thinking I need to include:

>All employees and subcontractors have been fully paid for work done at (this property)

>I confirm that my company did repair the two floor joists that were damaged during demo, and warrant that repair has been done according to the current building code. If the repair does not pass inspection, my company will correct it (better wording?)

>I have been fully compensated for the roof and demo work that was performed at (this property), in the amount of $(XX.xx), on (this date) by check # (123). The joist repairs are included in this payment.

>Both Customer & Contractor hereby confirm that the previous agreement for (contractor) to perform additional work on (this property) is cancelled. (better wording?) No further work will be performed by (contractor) at (this property). No further money is due to contractor from customer.

Also: I feel like maybe I should list all the things that have been done & not done that caused me to come to this conclusion. Should I list everything in great detail? Put that first in the beginning of the document?

Signatures & date

I'm thinking if he balks at all, I just keep the check until after the structural inspection.

And I can ask him if he would prefer I send this document along with a lot of photos and my statement, to DPOR (VA Dept. of Professional & Occupational Regulation). (If he really tried to get nasty). Just trying to be prepared for the worst, while hoping for the best - ya know what I mean?

Another also: I'm planning to move forward with other workers - the new siding guys will be working when we meet there Monday. Should I be concerned at all about not cutting everything off with him first? I decided I wasn't going to allow him any more control over me & my project & cause any more delays - since he "couldn't" meet me until Monday afternoon. What's the worst that could happen?

I look forward to your feedback - thanks in advance.

I am a licensed contractor and there are things you don't know and haven't a clue too. Just because you say, so and so has been fully paid, means nothing, legally. That's just your opinion!

Do you have a written contract that spells out the job, progress payments, etc? Are you paying them for materials plus their labor or by the job?

Why am I saying the stuff above? Because if you think your paid the workers, contractors and materials suppliers but don't have a material release, then any one can sue you for unpaid items.

So when a client isn't happy with the work, price or time table and they want to STOP THE PROJECT, THEY SHOULD ASK ME FOR ANY OUTSTANDING PAYMENTS for work or materials. They want me to confirm that payments are UP TO DATE and match the progress payment towards work performed.

In all of my larger jobs I have progress payments to insure the job is getting done right to the clients need and that I'll get paid for work performed. But as a contractor, I am NOT allowed to Charge in Advance for work done, only afterwards. So everyone things they are paid up for the week, but in reality, I CHARGE FOR WHATS BEEN DONE AND NOT TOWARDS FUTURE WORK. This accounting is a nightmare and I have to explain that besides a deposit, they are always paying for past work and materials used in the job.

If they don't pay a bill/invoice, I can put a lien on their property and take them to court.

So the right way to fire a contractor is to ask them for an accounting of the job. If they have a surplus or how much they are owed for the work that has been done.

You can say you've changed you mine and want to go a different way so you wanted to make sure that the contractor is fully paid for work performed. Do not let them leave without agreeing that what ever payment you make is the last and final payment, nothing is owed.

I never had to do this but I think your document and timing is wrong, on so many levels.

It is just wrong for this guy to show up at work, ready to work, and you tell him 'don't bother'. Yes, I know that's how employers/employee situations work but that is not this. Does he have ANY idea this is coming? I'm thinking not. You are going to completely take him off guard and there is no way he's going to agree to anything while standing there, hat in hand.

The big question is do you have a written contract? If so, what does it say? (I know you know that already). If he is so bad, why is he being allowed to work between now and Monday morning?

Subcontractors needed to sign what we call here a Stipulation Against Liens.

I'm guessing no meat and potatoes and no stip were signed at the beginning so to now come up with a one sided, on the spot, release is not going to fly.

...Better have some big tough looking bad guy backup with you to make this go smoothly...

Nicole--I disagree. Physical intimidation does work, too a point. If someone has in the back of their mind that they may end up taking a beating if they push too far, it makes a difference. Of course, one must not be stupid and go on record as physically threatening the other party, but simply bringing along someone who looks mean cannot be a liability.

Nicole--I disagree. Physical intimidation does work, too a point. If someone has in the back of their mind that they may end up taking a beating if they push too far, it makes a difference. Of course, one must not be stupid and go on record as physically threatening the other party, but simply bringing along someone who looks mean cannot be a liability.

Thank you all for replying.

I should clarify a couple things.

He had a crew re-do the roof. I was to pay after it was completed. It now is. Couple weeks ago. Subs should be paid already.

He sent people to do demo. I was to pay after it was done. During demo is when structural issues & delays arose. They just finished yesterday, repairing the floor joists they broke. There is NO more of his workers currently scheduled at this house.

Actually, since I was to provide the materials for all the remaining work, the only thing to pay for if we went forward would be labor.

He has never come to the job site and will certainly not be coming expecting to work -just to be paid for the work already done. He might think we will be scheduling the next phase, but I told him on the phone a while ago (one of the fw times I have been able to speak to him since he made the quote)

I've already made it very clear to him that I'm unhappy with what I've gotten so far. So, i don't really expect him to be too surprised.

If I'm understanding you, Robert - I should ask him to bring proof that he has paid his employees & subs? That seems like it may upset him even more, but....I want to be thorough & correct (as much as possible)

And Nicole - you think I should talk to him about it before meeting and confirm the amounts (that are listed in the contract) for the two portions completed. Thing is, he normally does not take or return my calls, and when he does text - well, that's an awful lot to text.

I hadn't really considered taking a big friend, but with the new siding contractors there, I won't be alone.

Keep them coming - and I appreciate the honest opinions given.

Always learning

Question for Group......

When is it a good idea to retain a bad contractor?

Firing anyone is difficult.

Construction is challenging on any given day - especially now a days with material cost. This will make giving anyone the ax that much more difficult.

I don't know the scope and work of your job, plus I don't know the law of your state. But here in California, unless you see the contactor bring on his truck the supplies, then you have to assume a supplier transported and delivered the materials on site to your project. Meaning if you were to pay your contractor all of the money and he doesn't pay the supplier or workers, they all can put a lien on your property and collect -- even if you can prove you paid your contractor.

I had a $100,000 job done to one of my partnership properties. When the roofing material came to the job, on the truck was magnet signs with my contractors name and license number. I got a snap shot picture of the delivery truck, magnetic signs and the license plate number.

I presume that you have some sort of proposal / contract that you both agreed to that establishes what work was going to be done, who was responsible for providing what materials, who was obtaining any required permits & inspections, a time frame for starting the work as well as an idea of the length of time to do the work, something regarding how extras would be handled and naturally the amount that was to be paid & when it was to be paid. Before your Monday meeting IMO you should review all of the above to determine where you actually stand on work that has been completed in an acceptable manner, work that he should have done but hasn't yet completed, work that isn't at all acceptable, then use this to establish a value for what has been done to date. Once you determine this value then it should be relatively simple for you to decide whether you owe him any more money or if he's already been paid too much. Now you can use this info to reach an agreement how the best way for you to terminate your relationship for this project.

I wouldn't be too quick to think that just because some of his work was done weeks ago that the suppliers, subs & the actual workers have actually been paid. I know this might be hard to believe (g) but some contractors lie about these things. If he has any money coming to him before you pay him make sure you get;

proof or permits pulled & inspections done

payment for materials, subs & his workers

his 1099 info

his WC & liability insurance certificates

documentation (list as well as pictures) of work done as of his last day working on the job site

a signed document releasing you from having to pay for any work not already billed for

Especially after reading "He has never come to the job site", I get the impression that this contractor mainly hire others to do the actual work & he just finds the work & deals with the property owners. Am I correct in thinking that he has never even been to look at this project prior to or during the course of the renovations?

You might want to take this experience & use it to come up with a what to do & more importantly what not to do when hiring contractors & rehabbing future projects. I imagine that a good deal of the expenses that you incurred dealing with this contractor & with this particular will end up being written off as tuition in your LL's rehabbing property education.

Email, or course!

It's too much to text, but email will create a written record - better than a potential verbal disagreement (where the first thing I think of in response isn't always the best response)

I doubt he would provide a proper release of lien form. But I will ask for some statement that subs/suppliers have been paid. A signed statement is better than nothing.

It's a loosey-goosey contract (My BAD! - I'll do better)

I will email him today, to be sure we do agree on the amount & say I will not be having his company do any more work.

Thank you for all your input & support.

PS: I REALLY want to jab him with a list of things gone wrong, to express my

P.O'd-ness (new word) (I'm terrible, right? : { ) But I will resist. Stick to the simple facts - you're getting this money, you're done. As long as things stay respectful. I've already pointed out errors to him before, when they happened - he shouldn't be clueless.

Steve- he was there to do the estimate. Not since.

Hi DJ, Good luck. The only think I saw that looks like a contradiction is:

>I confirm that my company did repair the two floor joists that were damaged during demo, and warrant that repair has been done according to the current building code. If the repair does not pass inspection, my company will correct it (better wording?)

>Both Customer & Contractor hereby confirm that the previous agreement for (contractor) to perform additional work on (this property) is cancelled. (better wording?) No further work will be performed by (contractor) at (this property). No further money is due to contractor from customer.

So maybe just an exception that if the structural inspection does not pass then he will be permitted to come back.

Also I think it would be nice to have the structural inspection done before you let him go. He might be more likely to make it right if necessary.

Once again good luck.

I change my response. I was visualizing a guy showing up at 7:30 a.m. with hard hat, lunch box and a truck full of guys ready to start their week.

Pics pics pics.

Have him sign the w9 and a Lien Waiver BEFORE letting him go.

I don’t FIRE anyone. I tell them we are halting the project, or the owner changed his mind, or we’re over budget and have to wait...

I pay them a little more than expected hoping to kinda buy them off to avoid trouble.

Confirm with suppliers they have been paid, another lien waiver for each.

Robert’s plan is good.