The place I'm trying to rent is in a decent area. It's a duplex I bought at a sheriff's sale and I renovated by putting in a couple of new bathrooms, a new kitchen, new flooring, new carpeting, ductless heat pump system and etc. It's a nice place, but I think I miscalculated on the tenant demographics. I would have put in EBB rather than the heat pumps and would have dialed down on the other stuff had I known what I know now. I bought the place prior to covid, so things may have changed on that front.

I have declined all section 8 applicants up to now as I decided I didn't want to deal with inspections and all of the other stuff that goes with the program. I'm starting to rethink that. I think I can get my rent numbers and if I go with less than ideal tenants, I need to be assured of getting paid. The fact of the matter is that section 8 might be the best of the lot given what I'm seeing. Also, it tends to mitigate against whatever they might do with the moratoriums. Here another conversation with a tenant who prescreened on Zillow. She called today to follow-up. I was unaware that she was on section 8:

Me: Your household income and credit score is outside of our criteria. It doesn't appear you have a lot of debt, but income is $2,100 or half of the amount needed.

Applicant: I don't meet the required income, however, I do make close to it. I also have a section 8 voucher for 1580 and can pay my end on time as I have always done without section 8 that is. I can assure I will not miss a payment on my end as well as I can provide my security deposit at signing. I am a good tenant and before Covid I had a good credit score. I work as well as recieve unemployment. Also, I recieve SSI for my son.

Not sure how she's working and getting unemployment at the same time. I need to understand a bit more about that, but I think I'm going to begin looking at section 8 and that will mean screening a bit harder. I'm starting to conclude that you can't fill the place with tenants who don't exist.

I have four more apartments coming on stream later in the spring. It's a similar situation where they will be newly done. This time, I will dial down the amenities down to basic stuff.

There are plenty of reasons not to take Section 8, in addition to the fact that getting in bed with Uncle Sam usually isn't all it's cracked up to be.

1) Sec 8 inspectors have to approve your property, or they won't pay you. On a new tenant, that could take anywhere from 3-6 weeks during which time you are not making any rent. Be sure to deduct this amount when comparing your income to market rate tenants.

2) If/when the Govt goes into another sequestration, your income is put on hold indefinitely. So "guaranteed payment" is a misnomer.

3) During the 2008-2009 housing crisis, land lords in some major cities were forced to take a 10% "haircut" on payments. This proves that they can and will renege on their deals if/when it benefits them to do so.

4) If/when the Sec 8 person does damages or fails to pay their portion of rent and gets evicted, it is unlikely they will have sufficient income to pay for damages or the unpaid rent/late fees, and no garnishment of wages will be allowed due to their low income. Section 8 won't pay any of that.

5) You are at the mercy of the inspector, and to justify his/her job the odds are something will be found in your unit that you must fix, and until you fix it and get thru the reinspection, you don't get paid.

I can go on, but you get the idea....

I've never turned down an applicant solely because they were on S8. There are numerous ways to not accept an applicant without actually using their S8 source of income as the reason. Sometimes I'll find a reason to deny an applicant not because of anything they've done but because they were being handled by certain PHA or S8 providers which I've had a bad experience with.

Over the years I have numerous S8 tenants some have been good & a few had been a nightmare but overall most of them were OK. In addition to screening the applicants, I find it's just as important to screen the PHA that handles their voucher. I don't think that the S8 program is a good fit for all LLs especially newer LLs. However if you learn how things work, follow their rules & stay on top of the paperwork, it can work out well.

One of the best tenants that I ever had was a single Mom with 3 kids. They occupied a second floor apartment in a 4 unit building. Not only was her apartment kept clean & neat, she also regularly sweep & wash the common stairs leading to her unit. Her kids were very polite & well mannered. Even after living there 5+ years when she left we had just minor paint touchups to do. The bulk of her rent was paid by S* & she also got some help with her utilities from a different local agency. Of course she was the exception not the rule for subsidized tenants.

Sid, I'm well aware of the downsides of section 8 and avoided it up to now for those reasons however, as managers we must be as chameleons and be prepared to change up as conditions warrant. I would prefer to rent to someone with a 600+ score who's been on the job for 3+ years making $ 50,000. Those people are largely non-existent in the area where my place is located and every landlord wants them. It only makes sense to expand the base of people I'm considering and section 8 is the logical way to go versus letting the place sit empty or placing someone in the place who might take advantage of the eviction moratorium. At least with section 8, that's not an issue. To me, it's just changing one set of potential issues for another set and whatever issues one is dealing with, one still has to manage. If rent controls and other restrictions materialize, being set up with section 8 might very well put one ahead of the game.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet, but to my way of thinking, there's no reason to ring fence myself to only one way in light of the overall economic circumstances. The short of it is that my preferred tenants are in very short supply. I think many people are experiencing that.

Jeffrey,

When I first started buying houses, section 8 was pretty appealing. At that time, in the neighborhoods I was buying in, I could get a higher rent rate with section 8 than I could from a tenant paying their own way. I had some good section 8 tenants and some bad section 8 tenants. The reason I no longer prefer section 8 isn't because of the tenants - I can sort through them until I find an acceptable one. It's because of the hassle of dealing with the section 8 office - not being able to get anyone to answer the phone, not getting a straight or consistent answer when I do get someone, and waiting weeks for an inspection once I find a tenant I'm willing to rent to. Rents are no longer appealing either - they are at the low end of market range rather than the high end of market range.

"...have a section 8 voucher for 1580...I work as well as recieve unemployment. Also, I recieve SSI for my son."

We did Section 8 once. In fact, our first tenants. They did not start the rental on this program but six months into the lease the wife finally got the voucher and they asked if we would work with this program.

We have many folks in our area who have vouchers and always looking for landlords who will accept these. Last I heard it's a five year waiting list to get one. As a result the local office is terribly busy and each careworker carries a very large load of clients.

It's a long story but never again will I do Section 8 again. And these were "good" tenants meaning the father was employed (as a maintenance man for our local school system). Their share of the rent was always paid on time but they had three children and the oldest daughter (living on her own) seemed to produce a child with every man she dated and these were dropped off at mom and dads to "babysit"...except when the "babysitting" meant these little ones ended being dropped off by the school bus it was clear they were not visiting but living there.

When the program got a new and eager young inspector and the house failed an inspection due to "mold" around the bathtub guess who was over there on a weekend scrubbing up the mildew? Not the tenants (they sat and watched TV) but yours truly. Same when the father cracked the edge of the toilet in one of the bathrooms, replaced the toilet but forgot to add toilet bolts (some maintenance man), rotted out the floor underneath and then complained that we took too long one Sunday pulling the toilet and replacing that section of the floor.

I guess the good thing you could say about the program is that so few landlords want these tenants once you get them they tend to stay for long periods of time. The bad news is that once you get them they tend to stay for long periods of time.

Your house doesn’t sound like a good fit for S8. You have described a house that would appeal to a well qualified tenant looking to relocate. I think that you should redouble your marketing efforts.

If your market is in fact all hard scrabble tenants moving from one house to another within your town, sell. Better to take your losses now than to lose all of the value of your remodel job with destructive tenants.

GKARL,

On one of your next visits to the Burgh and if you have a free hour, I would love to get together for lunch. I'm located in the South Hills of Pittsburgh, which is a 10 - 15 minute drive to the U of Pitt area.

I've had problem sending my email address to you in a response. My cell # starts with 412 334. If interested, I'll send the last four digit in a separate response.

Rich

I am satisfied with the local section 8 program.

From what I can tell from other posts over the years, the success of the section 8 program is based on the local office. The office in this area is OK.

It took 3 days to get the most recent section 8 inspection in December.

Section 8 payments are made electronically on the 1st or 2nd of the month. If they make a mistake and do not pay, they make another payment on the 15th.

Some of the case workers do have an attitude.

If the house is in decent condition, it will pass the section 8 inspection. If the house is clean, windows are not cracked, lights and receptacles work, heat works, hot and cold water works, drains do not leak, doors close and lock, roof does not leak, etc, the house will pass the inspection.

If you are not sure, set up a meeting with the case worker and manager.

God luck!

Gail you wrote: think I can get my rent numbers and if I go with less than ideal tenants.

You've been coming it this website for how long? If you want to take Section 8, then take Section 8. It's your property and your choice.

As you like, GKARL.

I know some folks have had success with Section 8. I tried it too and had below average results. I find MORE success without it, plus after 23 years in the military, I'm personally done dealing with process-minded bureaucrats who tell me how I have to run my business.

Wrote: The bad news is that once you get them they tend to stay for long periods of time.

Again i challenge you to learn what your rights are. You do not have to renew their contact. You can get them out for such damages. The toilet example given was communication and not inspecting your property and setting the expectations goin in.

JASON- Being banned was probably the best thing for you.

The more we deal with Sec 8,, the worse it becomes.

Have done Sec 8 for about half of our paces for over 0 years. Tenants have wants that their vouchers cannot accommodate ( finished basements, fenced yards)

Written above: Keep in mind that you will probably get the government's portion. You might not be able to get the tenant's portion, since you can't evict them for not paying their part of it

Plenty wrote, "Housing also has restrictions on only people in voucher living there."

Well my one and only Suc-8 moved in her boyfriend and his smoking 13 year old son...and his baby. Then two flea-ridden kittens.

I told Suc-8 all about what was going on and they refused to do anything. She lied constantly about everything and I had to wait out the end of her lease before I could finally get her gone.

And the best part, they approved her for her next place which she was able to get paid and moved into a month before my lease even ended.

Yea, what a great system!

"Gail you wrote: think I can get my rent numbers and if I go with less than ideal tenants."

Actually I didn't write any of the above.

My county has a number of folks with vouchers. And a number wanting vouchers (there's a 5 year wait to get on the program).

As has been pointed out how good a program often depends on the local office. Around here the caseworkers carry a heavy load. Couple that with many local landlords who don't wish to participate in this program, a reimbursement rate that does not touch the current market rate and at least a six to eight week wait for the initial inspection and any landlord who agrees to take a Section 8 client is greeted with such happiness by the program that it's unlikely unless murder is involved the tenant is kicked out of the program.

Finally I was a government employee for 30 years. I know what fools where were. I'd sell everything before being forced to participate in this program.

Gail

No question was asked.