Heat Pump vs. Electric (by WMH [NC]) Feb 26, 2021 10:51 AM|
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by GKARL [PA]) Feb 26, 2021 10:58 AM
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by WMH [NC]) Feb 26, 2021 11:24 AM
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by S i d [MO]) Feb 26, 2021 11:25 AM
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by RR78 [VA]) Feb 26, 2021 12:30 PM
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by Barb [MO]) Feb 26, 2021 2:27 PM
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by WMH [NC]) Feb 26, 2021 2:46 PM
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Feb 26, 2021 4:05 PM
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by WMH [NC]) Feb 26, 2021 4:10 PM
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by Hoosier [IN]) Feb 26, 2021 5:16 PM
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by gevans [SC]) Feb 26, 2021 9:45 PM
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Feb 27, 2021 5:04 AM
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by Barb [MO]) Feb 27, 2021 2:17 PM
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Heat Pump vs. Electric (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Feb 26, 2021 10:51 AM
Had a tenant whose electric bill almost tripled in one month, couldn't figure it out, she's been there over a year and her bill is always consistent.
She mentioned her heater (which is a through-wall/window heat pump, think PTAC but smaller) was coming on a lot more. Well, it's cold but okay she noticed a difference.
SO DH checked it out and he figured out the compressor was gone, the unit was operating on the back-up electric heat strips only.
He bought some sort of measuring device and found the following:
Fan only: pulls 0.61 amps
Compressor (heat pump/AC) pulls 2.76 amps
Electric Heat Strip: 16.59 amps!!
Wow. No wonder electric heat is like burning dollar bills. And no wonder the former occupants of these units used to complain like crazy about their electric bills (they had electric heat, we installed the heat pumps in 2019.)
We had a backup unit, swapped it out and her bill should go back down now.
FWIW to you, just some knowledge to share. --50.82.xxx.xxx
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Feb 26, 2021 10:58 AM
I have the hyperheat ductless systems with no supplemental heating. This shouldn't be an issue for this particular building. I have another place with an air source heat pump that's ineffective below 32 degrees. Backup heat there is EBB which the tenant controls. --209.122.xx.xxx
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Feb 26, 2021 11:24 AM
Yea, PA gets too cold to use heat pumps effectively. VA is about as far north as I would go with one, and even there there were many days we were just COLD inside. But heat pumps are just about all they use around here. SOME (very few) have propane or oil furnaces. --50.82.xxx.xxx
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Feb 26, 2021 11:25 AM
"No wonder electric heat is like burning dollar bills."
Yep, a true statement!
Where I'm at, natural gas per therm costs roughly 65% of what an equal amount of electric heat costs. It gets worse during peak electric demand, when a surcharge occurs.
There is no peak gas demand charge.
In my all electric places that have gas accessible, I've been installing the "blue flame natural gas wall heater". A 20,000 btu unit installed in our 700-900 sq ft units runs about $179 + $60 to install it along with a new gas shut off valve. It's a great supplemental heating system that helps get the temp up quickly to around 62-64 degrees, and then the electric can kick in and maintain the temp. On cool days (mid 40s and up) it does a good enough job to heat the entire unit, no electric required. Cost savings for the tenant can be significant, and if power ever goes out the wall heater still does an acceptable job while we get the HVAC tech out there.
I'm a huge fan of taking simple, inexpensive backup options when they are available. A warm tenant is a happy tenant, and for about $250 I don't get hit with evening and weekend HVAC labor prices.
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by RR78 [VA]) Posted on: Feb 26, 2021 12:30 PM
I get one every now and then.
Tenant thinks the air from the heat pump is cold. Since the air from the heat pump is lower than a persons body temp.
But still hot enough to maintain the temp.
They switch it to emergency heat. And think it is better since the air feels hotter.
Then complain when they see the electric bill.
We even give them a fact sheet on move in since all ours have heat pumps. Since the heated air coming out can seem cool. Helps if people are used to gas heat. --73.40.xx.xx
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by Barb [MO]) Posted on: Feb 26, 2021 2:27 PM
I totally get it.
We have 4 places on heat pumps. Ours are whole house, so a fully outside unit. They are good to about 20F.
With the massive cold snap we had (-6F) I had texted those tenants that if their place was not staying warm, they needed to turn on the "emergency heat" switch on their thermostat. That would activate the heat strips since it was too cold to use the heat pump effectively.
Two of these four places are all utilities included, with travel nurses in them. I just received a bill for half of that period of super cold. The bill is the highest it has ever been since we built in 2011. Wow - over $200 (for everything, electric,trash, water,sewer). I think the previous max was $178 years ago when my daughter lived there and kept it warm cause Mom was paying the bill.
I'm certainly not going to penalize my travel nurses for it being super cold, though.
We've eliminated gas heat because so many people don't want to pay the extra bill. --67.43.xxx.xxx
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Feb 26, 2021 2:46 PM
Another thing people don't understand about heat pumps is that, on their own, they can only adjust the temps up or down about 20-25 degrees over/under the outside temp. So in summer, if it's 100 degrees outside, you are lucky if you can get your house to 79-80. In winter, if it's 40, you can maybe get 65.
Can't seem to teach some people that, and they crank the AC down to 50 and wonder why the unit frosts up and quits instead of making it colder in the house. --50.82.xxx.xxx
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Feb 26, 2021 4:05 PM
A heating system is more then installing a HVAC system where the building envelop needs to upgraded where the ceiling is spray foamed along with walls are spray foamed so the heat transfer to outside is minimized. The newer high efficiency heat pumps work better in lower temperatures where the high efficiency split heat pump as the compressor operates at a variable rate where electric resistant is not. On average about half the current. If a building was very well insulated then there no need for heating or cooling system as the building would be net zero where solar panels would provide power. After spray foamed interior then insulation on the outside walls then stucco over. Windows upgraded as well where there are heat pump water heaters where indoors extract heat from the indoor outside air. So in the end in order to operate a energy efficient rental unit or house the rent has to higher to recover the extensive capital expenditure over time. The new Tesla is using a heat pump for heat where the range is extended in cold weather. The future is slowly upgrading insulation where step by step the envelop is improved. To heat or cool a poorly insulated building is two forces fighting each other. A HVAC system is sized on the heat loss and heat gain. Fiber glass is a garbage insulation where there are air pockets and mold where in the house slowly room by room getting rid of the moldy fiber glass insulation then spray foaming with DIY kit then installing bubble wrap. One wall last year was at 0 degrees Celsius when the outside temperature was -20 degrees Celsius where broke out wall then spray foamed then a layer of bubble wrap then new drywall. Done the bathroom walls and ceiling where now the heat stays in. With a combination of improving envelop along with installing a high efficiency split heat pump there will be a great reduction in energy consumption along the HVAC system will last longer as less time on. --99.236.xxx.xxx
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Feb 26, 2021 4:10 PM
Robert, my man, you always have good info but for the love of GAWD can you please start using paragraphs? I can't follow what you post and end up not reading it, and it's good info I am missing. --50.82.xxx.xxx
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by Hoosier [IN]) Posted on: Feb 26, 2021 5:16 PM
I was a licensed home inspector in southern Indiana for seven years. We do have some heat pumps here but I would not use them any further north than this. I would estimate about 10% of the houses are inspected had heat pumps. They can be very expensive when temperatures get below about 20°F --99.92.xxx.xxx
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by gevans [SC]) Posted on: Feb 26, 2021 9:45 PM
I've been working on heat pumps over 35 years. Virtually everyone uses them here in SC.
They are one of the most efficient heat sources, but they do have limitations.
We pay the electric on several houses, ours and the ones we rent furnished. Without exception, we got record high electric bills last month. It was cold!
When it's colder than normal, the heat pump will not provide enough heat (because it's not sized to provide that much heat) and the second stage resistance heat must make it up. And yes...that is expensive.
But...if you size the heat pump for the three days its really cold or the 5 days it's over 100...it's too big the other 355 days and therefore less efficient. --69.80.xx.xx
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Feb 27, 2021 5:04 AM
This winter was warmer earlier then colder in January and February. Insulating the house is going to take a few years where can not use DIY spray foam kits when the temperature drops below room temperature. Have a thermal camera where found many deficiencies in the walls along with other areas of the house When houses are built the level insulation was only to the level of code at that time where the solution was to put a larger HVAC system which is a poor solution. Fiber glass insulation the heat transfer increases over time where air pockets decrease the R value. Well fiberglass is the cheapest insulation out there Rockwool along with spray foam is a much better product as the R valve does not drop over time. The local HD stores here the shelves are filled with nothing but fiberglass insulation where over time going to get rid of fiberglass completely. One wall was 0 degrees Celsius when the outside temperature was -20 degrees Celsius where broke out wall then spray foamed then installed a bubble wrap and new drywall where the windows are the weakest part of the wall now. Since installing a steel roof there is no need for AC here as some days in July and August get very hot. Last year put a storm door where found significant improvements in keeping the heat in. Right now there is snow on the ground although the sidewalks and roads are cleared. In December changed out the furnace to a two stage where the lower stage fires at lower rate then if temperature is not meet the second stage fires where the high efficiency furnace was noisy. --99.236.xxx.xxx
Heat Pump vs. Electric (by Barb [MO]) Posted on: Feb 27, 2021 2:17 PM
Just received a bill for my mom's place (that we are now renting to a travel nurse) for the month ending Feb 16. Wow - that is an expensive electric bill, but for what she is paying, it is all good! --67.43.xxx.xxx
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