--184.21.xx.xx

Glad that you posted this separately as Roy suggested. --73.120.xx.xxx

Give me time to collect my thoughts here and I will answer this. Do you want the sugar-coated version or the down and dirty/take no prisoners version? LOL. --68.63.xxx.xxx

All I know is I am not smart enough to play this game. :-( --71.217.xxx.xx

I buy off market properties almost exclusively.Iadvertise pretty heavy so when they call i ask a few questions.Unlike prospective tenants i want to hear a story,they will tell you why they need to get rid of the place,use that to my advantage.I look up the county website to see if they have a mortgage or judgments,my wife calls and finds out if there are any back taxes.If they have a mortgage they will give me there statement so i know what is owed.Then i tailor a deal to solve there problem,i dont just throw a number at them,i solve the problem.they will take $20000 from me framed properly before they will take $25000 from someone who just says i will give you $25000 because in my case i will say ok so i will pay off the $14000 mortgage,there is a $1000 judgment that has to be paid and you owe $4000 in back taxes,i will pay my attorney to do all the paperwork and i will pay the filing fees for both of us and you get $1000.then i just ask if that works for them and most of the time they are just happy to be getting rid of the place and know they are getting $1000 in there pocket,without my explanation they dont know if they will have to come out of pocket to close and most dont know what it will cost or how much they owe in taxes etc and are scared to look stupid and ask.Most desperate sellers do not have a profit motive and most buyers overpay but knowing all the numbers and being able to explain it to them makes all the difference --72.231.xxx.xxx

With a plan, you can set your price to fit your ideas. --47.155.xx.xxx

--68.63.xxx.xxx

--184.21.xx.xx

Roy,if they owe more on the mortgage than the house is worth usually they want to leave town to get a new start usually wherever they came from.Often in this case they are a month or two behing on payments.The only thing i can do in this case is ask how much they need to get to wherever they are moving,lets say they say $2000 i tell them i will give them $2000 to get there and they will sign the deed over to me,i tell them i will not pay the mortgage and i will collect rent until the bank forecloses,you would be surprised how many people go for it because they were going to abandon the house anyway.I make them sign and have it notarized acknowledging that they understand i am not going to pay the mortgage and they do,if they already filed bankrupt or will eventually it doesnt affect them at all as far as credit goes anyway. In my state it takes 18 months or longer to do a foreclosure so i make out pretty well,normal states probably not worth the effort --72.231.xxx.xxx

I am a little confused on how the deed works in this case. --73.120.xx.xxx

6x6 deed and mortgage are seperate documents,i buy the house by transferring the deed to my company which then allows me to collect the rent because i own the building.The mortgage is a lein against the property,if the mortgage is not paid the bank can foreclose which you would expect them to do but in some cases it has taken 4 years.In one case the bank released the mortgage meaning i then owned it free and clear and i sold it for $45000. I know an attorney who had bought a place for $1000 collected rent for a couple years,the bank released the mortgage and he is selling it for $150000. There is an attorney here who does bankruptcies and has these signed over to him regularly and seems to have 40 or more of these going at any given time. --72.231.xxx.xxx

I don't see how the seller could sign over a deed that wasn't really there's to sign? --73.120.xx.xxx

On the commercial side, increasing value comes down to realizing a better use for the property than what the market rate value says it's worth. Everything you can change in commercial is income-based so with good management and wise use of the property, you increase value. That all happens after you buy. --107.216.xxx.xxx

--68.63.xxx.xxx

6x6 remember deed and mortgage are 2 different documents. Name on deed signifies ownership,the owner can sign the deed to anyone they want whether it is a good idea or not.The mortgage is just a lein which will stay attached to the house even if the deed is signed over.The house really is theres to sell,it just has a lein against it. --72.231.xxx.xxx

Thank you Roy. --73.120.xx.xxx

Ken - that’s an interesting strategy on the under water properties. I’ve never heard of that before. Pretty cool idea. --73.186.xxx.xxx

Having purchase foreclosures for 30 years ... I simply use land value. The building is the bonus. --71.255.xxx.xx

--184.21.xx.xx

PG- The mortgage holder will not allow it but i dont need there consent.There remend is to foreclose which they are going to do anyway for not paying the mortgage.I do not pay the taxes,the bank will pay them to protect there interest if they wish to.I do get an insurance policy in case a tenant gets hurt primarily but if the place burned down i will receive the proceeds since i did not list the bank on the policy,i checked with my insurance guy who confirmed with the insurance company that i would be paid with no bank name on the check.I am willing to put 1-2 months rent into a place to make it rentable,if it needs more than that i do not buy the house.I dont care about liens,they stay attached to the house but they can only go after the house and not after me since it is not me they have the judgment against.I see no reason it wouldnt work regardless the type of mortgage,they still have to foreclose properly and in my state it takes a long time --72.231.xxx.xxx

For those who don't think there is much opportunity in this market or in the near future - remember you can't see the forest through the trees. Do any of you know someone who is behind on a house payment? Do you think that there might be more folks in the near future? --24.101.xxx.xx

Wow. The posters on this thread should run for office. You guys/ gals could straighten this place out. --75.133.xxx.xx

Ray,yes basically subject to but with these i make sure they understand i will not pay the mortgage and make them put it in writing and notarized so they cant say different later.I had nothing to do with the bank releasing the mortgage,i just got lucky.It happens occasionally in NY state and i think the reason is this,they passed a law here that says if a bank starts a foreclosure and the house goes vacant the bank is legally required to maintain the property,mow the lawn,change locks,check on it regularly and if the bank decides they dont want to pursue the foreclosure if they release the mortgage that obligation goes away.I have bought a few of them from owners who i tracked down and they just wanted to get rid of the place.I see that happen generally in the case of the payor dying or filing bankrupt. --72.231.xxx.xxx

THANKS KEN - I may have an application for the sign over of the deed you described. --184.21.xx.xx

--24.101.xxx.xx

these days, in the hotter areas, short sales are where the paydays are. the seller will be getting nothing, or some walk away cash, and they truly do not care what the shack sells for. the coming years will see more of them as the market ejects the typical number of them based on the common market risks of job loss, health, death, divorce, etc. the question then is what can we ram down the banks throat. that takes experience as a transactor and someone who speaks their language. ALL the banks wised up and have departments full of people who do these. back in the 90's we used to be able to BS them...not any more. they used to actually "negotiate" the sales based on specific facts. now they have metrics they use, and the "negotiators" are little more than file clerks, so the property needs to be showcased for their broker price opinion. all flaws must be made clear. --75.80.xx.xx

Ken-How do you know how long you have before the bank forecloses? Do you stop renting them out when the bank is about to foreclose? MTM leases? Doesn't the insurance company check if there is a mortgage on the property or do they just see that you don't have a mortgage on it? --174.55.xxx.xx

--72.197.xxx.xx

cj in my state it takes 18 months to foreclose so if the bank hasnt filed the lis pendens(foreclosure) yet then i am interested,if they filed it 6 months ago i am not interested.I have had 2 that took the banks 4 years to get it foreclosed.yes mtm agreement.Insurance company does not care if there is a mortgage or not,all they care is if they were told there was a mortgage.If a tenant moves and a foreclosure is imminent then i dont bother rerenting it.JOHN,it is a sale,just because it doesnt go through a title company or an attorney means nothing,a deed doesnt even have to filed to be a legit sale,what you need is a seller acting like a seller and a buyer acting like a buyer,i give them money,they leave i take over,legit sale.I collect rent till the bank actually forecloses,the bank will usually pay the tenant to leave and give them 4-6 weeks free time to actually leave,mtm agreement so tenant has no expectation of anything better than that anyway.I have the seller sign the deed and docs that get filed with it so i own it and can collect rent and i have them write in there own handwriting that they understand they are selling me the house,and they know i am going to collect rent and not ever pay any mortgage payments and have it notarized,i bring my own notary so he just notarizes that document and the deed.I had 1 person complain the attorney general who sent a letter to me,i replied with a copy of that letter and got an answer from the attorney general saying i did not defraud the seller because they knew i was not going to pay the mortgage. --72.231.xxx.xxx

Why did the guy complain after the fact? Once you tell the seller you are going to rent it out and not pay the mortgage, why wouldn't they just do that themselves? --174.55.xxx.xx

My first negative I paid $300 a month and within 3 years It was positive and the property value was was up $20,000. Today that property has gone up $480,000. For less than $11,000 negative It is now worth $585,000. --99.23.xxx.x

My first negative I paid $300 a month and within 3 years It was positive and the property value was was up $20,000. Today that property has gone up $480,000. For less than $11,000 negative It is now worth $585,000. --99.23.xxx.x

cj, i have told people to do that and most are scared to be a landlord.They called the attorney general because it was taking longer than they thought it should and just wanted the whole thing over with. --72.231.xxx.xxx

This topic might be THE most state specifically we've covered. In states like florida or my the timelines can be very workable. In Calif or texas...not so much. I advise all rookies to find a mentor and buy him lunch --172.58.xx.xxx

This topic might be THE most state specifically we've covered. In states like florida or my the timelines can be very workable. In Calif or texas...not so much. I advise all rookies to find a mentor and buy him lunch --172.58.xx.xxx

This topic might be THE most state specifically we've covered. In states like florida or my the timelines can be very workable. In Calif or texas...not so much. I advise all rookies to find a mentor and buy him lunch --172.58.xx.xxx

Sorry. Cell phone. --172.58.xx.xxx