This is not political- please don’t take it or make it sound that way. There is an executive order today that “ will also direct the Department of Housing and Urban Development to study and remedy the racially discriminatory impacts of federal housing policies “that have contributed to wealth inequality for generations,” the White House said. I’m very confused. How are federal housing policies discriminatory? Aren’t those policies specifically designed to deter that? I realize that discrimination exists in housing on every level. We all see it and some of us have felt the sting of it. I don’t understand how federal policies could still be discriminatory in any way “ for generations”. That’s saying it was overlooked for decades.

It's not the Fair Housing rules that we follow that they are talking about.

There are lots of studies, reports and documents out there about this.

Redlining. Mortgage discrimination. The limitation of the use of housing vouchers to inner-city poorer neighborhoods. Just dozens of policies designed to discriminate - sometimes invisibly, sometimes in plain sight.

I have no idea what it means.

Just like the War on Poverty, the War on Drugs, and the War on Terror, the War on Discrimination has been an abysmal failure at almost every level. Based on the decades of evidence from these 4 programs alone, one could make a good argument that the Govt (regardless of which party is in charge) is not qualified to handle these problems.

But when Govt gets involved that means more programs, more directors, more budgets, more management, more office space, more tax dollars, more control, etc.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

As I recall redlining was when lenders would draw a red line around a given area and have a policy to not lend there.

Is it discrimination, well yes but at the same time the basis of the policy was not racially driven, but risk driven. The Feds started to back loans and then their partners made decisions to not lend in class d and f areas.

There was a racial aspect to it, because the practice is not pervasive in poor white areas such as Appalachia. Redlining targeted minority neighborhoods. Statistically you can see the practice was not uniformly applied, poor white area had different outcomes than poor back areas. That is based on numbers.

If the majority of these "redline" areas are inside of areas that were burned down over the summer, I would imagine that it would be of some benefit to those in government to end the redlining in these areas at this point.

out of 63 SFH's I have 2 Caucasian family's and it's been that way for years. I live in a subdivision, one of 4 family's, out of 75 homes who are not African American. I grew up in Eastern LI NY and back then very few people of color went to our school. 4 years in the Navy from 68 to 72 and even went to Memphis for 6 months the year after Dr. King was killed. I guess my folks did something right because I never thought to treat people differently-- no matter the color. I am Irish and thought everyone hated Irish people. In Norfolk the sign said dogs and sailors stay off the grass!!!

I've had one tenant tell a judge-- he doesn't like black people-- at the time I had 80 houses and only 4 or 5 white family's. I've rented to every person who could fog a mirror that qualified.

I have a business to run and can't afford this racial crap. There are just as many dead beat white renters as black or brown or yellow. Doesn't matter the religion either.

I won't say it doesn't happen but I will say it won't happen from me. I try not to go looking for it at ever turn either.

I'm laughing somewhat because during the app process just as many white folk as black try to trick me. That makes me laugh.

I don't want this to turn into-- perceived --. That at ever turn people think it's racial and use that as an excuse.

MYOB, again, this is NOT about rental housing and systemic discrimination there. That has, for the most part, been made illegal at least, even if it hasn't disappeared.

Redlining was more subtle, long-term systemic discrimination based on areas, zip codes, even names on mortgage applications.

Baltimore MD has one of the worst histories of redlining that can be found even these days, but NYC, Boston...east coast cities all had their private systems.

Not that any facts or statistics or studies are going to change your thinking but here is a 72 page study on redlining dated Nov. 2020 from the NATIONAL BUREAU OF ECONOMIC RESEARCH

1050 Massachusetts Avenue

Cambridge, MA 02138

November 2020

It goes into great detail on how the study was conducted with lots of statistical data to back up their conclusions.

h t t p s : //www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w28146/w28146.pdf

There are literally hundreds of other studies, this is a well researched topic.

Do a little basic research. Just read the Wiki link I posted. You can follow link after link to "real" studies, old studies, proven studies and reports. This not a new thing based on a study of, say, one neighborhood.

NE, please. This is not the vaccine or the virus.

FYI..this is the tile of the study :

RACE, RISK, AND THE EMERGENCE OF FEDERAL REDLINING

Here are the 3 pages of references used for the study and 8 pages of statistical charts.

References

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Influence of the Home Owners’ Loan Corporation on Housing Markets During the 1930s,”

Review of Financial Studies 24, 1782-1813.

35

Fishback, Price and Trevor Kollmann. “New Multi-City Estimates of the Changes in Home Values,

1920-1940.” Housing and Mortgage Markets in Historical Perspective. Edited by White, Eugene,

Kenneth Snowden, and Price Fishback. National Bureau of Economic Research Conference

Volume. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2014, pp. 203-244.

Fishback, Price, Jonathan Rose, and Kenneth Snowden. Well Worth Saving: How the New Deal

Safeguarded Home Ownership. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2013.

Fleitas, Sebastian, Price Fishback, and Kenneth Snowden. "Economic crisis and the demise of a popular

contractual form: Building & Loans in the 1930s." Journal of Financial Intermediation 36

(2018): 28-44.

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University of Chicago Press, 2010.

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(2003): 394-420.

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and Related Policies.” In Finding Aid for the Home Owners' Loan Corporation City Survey

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Park Maryland. Xerox. Unpublished.

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Money, Credit and Banking 43.6 (2011): 1073-1107.

36

Rose, Jonathan D., and Kenneth A. Snowden. "The New Deal and the origins of the modern American

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Macmillan, 2009.

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301-308.

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1940." Finance, intermediaries and economic development (2003): 157-208.

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edition. Princeton University Press, 2014.

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(1929): 934.

37

Figure 1: Coefficients and Confidence Intervals from Zone-Level Regressions of the Change

between 1930 and 1940 in Census Outcomes as a Function of HOLC Reports of Future Trend

Desirability

Just more evidence of confirmation bias. You go into these studies trying to prove exactly what you want to prove.

Just another slight of hand trick.

And women make 70 cents to every dollar a man makes.

I say why would I ever hire a man then. I'll just pay the woman to do the same work for a 30 percent discount.

Not surprised you don't see the world the same as Daniel Anderson. This is who he is :

Daniel Aaronson

Managerial Economics & Decision Sciences

Adjunct Professor of Managerial Economics & Decision Sciences

CONTACT INFO

d-aaronson@kellogg.northwestern.edu

Jacobs Center Room 548

Overview

Daniel Aaronson is a Vice President and Director of Microeconomic Studies at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago. He received his B.A from Washington University and his PhD from Northwestern.

Aaronson's research interests are in labor economics and U.S. economic history. Some of his recent research projects have looked at the varied ways that firms respond to changes in low-wage labor costs, how access to credit impacts urban development, how fertility impacts female labor supply decisions as countries get wealthier, and how a large educational intervention impacts skill accumulation, fertility, mobility, and health. His research has been published in leading journals such as the American Economic Review, Journal of Political Economy, Review of Economics and Statistics, Economic Journal, Journal of Labor Economics, and Journal of Human Resources.

Education

Ph.D., 1996, Northwestern University

B.A., 1989, Washington University in St. Louis, Magna Cum Laude

Homeowners tend to be more wealthy that renters when you measure net worth.

The home ownership rate is not even when compared to various races and nationalities.

Then again earning is not fairly distributed either. As a result, one could probably surmise that savings rates would be impacted.

I wonder since income isn't even, if this would impact credit scores also.

Credit and income are two items considered along your down payment.

I am not sure how you can fix these know differences. Perhaps you can try to extend some of JBJ great society programs. This will be a tough nut to crack though. If you give the banks a different standard for different ethnicities, what happens when a bank has to take a place back? I think the government would then be obligated to help both the failed owner along with the bank. Credit worthiness should not be based on race, but there might be a cause and effect relationship there.

This is a noble cause, but I just don't know how.

That's what I was thinking JB. I don't really know anything about this red line stuff and I quite honestly don't really care because it's beyond my sphere of influence.

But my point was that if I wanted to conduct a study on one thing and I hired two firms to study it and pay them equally and had them ask a different question about the same situation, I would get different statistics for each outcome.

Back in the early 2000's the govt FORCED the lenders to make loans in "bad areas" where the lenders knew, from experience, that they would lose money. The govt did not care and forced them to do it anyway.

So the lenders, knowing that these new programs/orders were losers gathered /"bundled" these loser loans into groups and with the help of the stock market, "securitized" these bundles and sold them to investors. The lenders then took their fees out for doing this while passing the risk to investors. They made a bunch of money doing this and so they then decided to use "gimmick loans" to generate more profits for themselves. Remember interest only loans? Negative amortization loans? No-No loans (no job, no qualifying)? 125 percent of value loans? And more?

This gave everybody, including those who did not qualify, easy access to tons of money. It resulted in a massive run up in prices which cumulated in the 2007/2008 crash.

Who ultimately got hurt? The taxpayers!

Who went to jail for these schemes? Nobody!

Then, when millions of foreclosures hit the market 2008-2012, these same big banks and hedge funds bought up the foreclosures, rented them and securitized the rents and sold those bundled packages of rents to investors AGAIN.

What's the point you ask? The point is that no matter what the govt tries to do to cure a "problem" that they identify, it does not work. Just look at all the attempted cures over the years. Failure after failure.

If they had left things alone, regular market forces would likely have fixed these problems.

But, there are always people that think they know more and "if you would just listen to them and OBEY" it would be much better.

Laura, I'm going to let you in on a secret. Anytime the government makes a move, it's either to position themselves to make money or gain votes or to reap the rewards of what was set up in the past.

It has nothing to do with benefiting you or me.

Politically touted racism is never going away. EVER. It's too valuable to them. It's an asset to the government and a tool to use.

It's up to the individuals to rise above it and to help others rise above it.

Laura, my argument is...if it as you say...fill the need yourself. Go gather up a bunch of investors. You can start with WMH and hubba hubba. They agree with you 100 percent. And their are millions of others. You take all that investor money and start a bank, loaning out that money to all these poor folks. I don't understand what would stop you.

While the goverment tries to foment equality of opportunity, no matter what it does it cannot, and never has been able to force equality of opportunity.

Jersey City, Hudson County, NJ ca. 1976 one of the most corrupt and soldly D portions of the State & Nation.

There was a piece of land that a Fed. Gov't program ordered [and paid for] a 15 unit townhome development [3 5 plexes] built for ELI [extremely low income] occupants to give then the chance to own their own home.

It did not take 2 years for several defaults, severe disrepair and within 5 years completely abandoned.

That is your response to a 72 page study full of statistics. Don't you think if rascism were that easy to solve it would have been done decades ago. Is that your "common sense" response???????

This is a complicated issue, WHA, Hubba and I are not going to solve it alone. But we (like you) can be part of the solution. But like all problems, you first have to recognize and understand the problem.

The problem is perpetual victim hood and lack of financial education. Not some perceived/planned systemic racism. That can be risen above.

If you are told that you are a victim your whole life, well……

When are you starting your redline zone "Don't be a victim" organization?

But it's really not a waste of your time, you just don't want to hear it. There is so much information out there with the Internet and books that self-improvement is so easily achieved that there's no excuse not to.

"I live in this area and I am this skin color", is no longer an excuse. What else is not an excuse is that if you knew certain areas wereredlined for decades and you were still in that area complaining about it, that's your problem.

And of course I don't mean you individually, I mean the person complaining about it.

That's what I thought. Just want to complain and search for an impossible answer to a simple problem.

With your 20K houses!

I am not eligible for the stimulus checks and only 2 of my tenants are eligible. Before you start on your false info about deductions the stimulus checks they were based on line 4

Laura, you are literally sitting here right now writing about discrimination and racism and then the very next sentence bragging about how you could buy me 10 times over. Make up your mind!

BTW, I know all about the red lining argument.

And it's not fair to charge higher insurance rates to someone just because they have terrible credit scores...

I feel like Michael Corleone, "just when I think I'm out, they pull me back in."

What..."Laura, you are literally sitting here right now writing about discrimination and racism and then the very next sentence bragging about how you could buy me 10 times over. Make up your mind!

You do know that racism and discrimination can exist and there can still be successful minorities. Surely you can grasp that concept?

I don't think I said 10 times, I said many times.

What..."Laura, you are literally sitting here right now writing about discrimination and racism and then the very next sentence bragging about how you could buy me 10 times over. Make up your mind!

You do know that racism and discrimination can exist and there can still be successful minorities. Surely you can grasp that concept?

I don't think I said 10 times, I said many times.

What..."Laura, you are literally sitting here right now writing about discrimination and racism and then the very next sentence bragging about how you could buy me 10 times over. Make up your mind!

You do know that racism and discrimination can exist and there can still be successful minorities. Surely you can grasp that concept?

I don't think I said 10 times, I said many times.

What..."Laura, you are literally sitting here right now writing about discrimination and racism and then the very next sentence bragging about how you could buy me 10 times over. Make up your mind!

You do know that racism and discrimination can exist and there can still be successful minorities. Surely you can grasp that concept?

I don't think I said 10 times, I said many times.

If any one here invests inside of these red line districts, I can tell you one great benefit of owning $20,000 houses.

You don't have to have a jury trial to get a permit to work on your own property! You can go to the store buy the materials and do it.

If government programs could fix racism... it'd been fixed a loooooooong time ago.

Who will be deciding if LLs discriminate?

"This Biden pick for a top civil-rights job has an ugly history of hate - NY Post

While a Harvard undergrad, Clarke argued in the student newspaper that blacks had greater “mental, physical and spiritual abilities” than whites because of the amount of melanin in their skin, a racist theory advocated by race-baiters like Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam.

As president of the Harvard Black Students Association, she invited author Tony Martin to speak on campus, despite his rabid anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial. She then defended him as a “black intellectual who bases his information” — i.e., his anti-Semitic slurs — “on indisputable fact.”

LLs should be nervous with this Biden pick...

Clarke’s positions on racial quotas for hiring and college admissions were already troubling. So, too, were her efforts to prevent prosecution of Black Panther thugs who intimidated Philadelphia voters and a corrupt Mississippi political boss. But her radical past and belief that anti-Semites who are black women deserve a pass mean she doesn’t deserve the job . . ."

Redlining began in the 1930's and ended in 1968 with the FHA... so it took place less than 40 years, and has been illegal for more than 50 years.

In my eyes -

The difference between a Grand Ol' Gentleman and a poor Old man is MONEY

It is true that people of color on average make less money than an average American does.

This conversation is touchy and may make you feel uncomfortable - but it is absolutely necessary.

I absolutely believe that the path to wealth is two fold 1) real estate and 2)education.

If you are a person of color, I applaud the extra effort made to beat a system that will be holding you back. For someone like Jeffery - who has taken this to well beyond the next level - you are the MAN! Not only has he repeatedly furthered education but education on REAL ESTATE. You are a true inspiration and a role model for so man.

There is one part of the conventions I would like to see improved. When I attend, I get a significant amount knowledge that results in the ability to make extra money. One thing I would like to see more of is more people of color at these events. Education is the key to success.

I sure wish knew of a way make the attendees be a better match of the community at large. I guess the lack of it only shows that we as a culture have a long way to go. I am absolutely grateful for all that Jeffery has done to for all investors, but I am most proud of him as I recognize it was that much hard for him to achieve what he has done and the impact he has created.

Opportunity means something different to so many people. For me, it took about nine years to graduate my undergrad. I was working full time and did it nearly debt free. I was the first one in a huge family to even attend college so for me to even make it was huge. But sometimes you don't do things just for yourself - most of nieces and nephews have all went to college.

So as we discuss opportunity - please understand that not agreeing on what it is- it is alright as long you understand that we collectively have to improve not only ourselves, but our neighborhood, customers and families.

I'll get off my soap box

It’s called politi-speak. Say stuff that makes you look good, esp while the media likes you as the new prez.

In politics perception is reality, so create a positive perception.

I’m all for reviewing policies looking for and eliminating discrimination. Times change, vocabulary changes, technology changes...in my mind nothing is exempt from review. (Except our Constitutional foundation)

Look at old tv commercials and old tv shows. MUCH has changed and is now politically and socially incorrect for good reasons.

My 2 cents.

Maybe the feds are going to start a busing program for housing.

laura, i lived in hawaii for years and learned what racism is from the receiving end. i have been called every permutation of haole from "white ahole" to "effin haole" and when i came to that it was fightin' words for this kid from working class new england. my kids are bi-racial.

Lets face the fact-- no more reports no more student papers or professors with 56 years of schooling.

AS LONG AS THERE'S MONEY AND POWER TO BE HAD-- RACISM IS HERE TO STAY. Take the profit away and the TV camera's turned off.