Cleaning fee (by B.B. [OH]) Jan 18, 2021 9:06 PM
Cleaning fee (by Richard [MI]) Jan 18, 2021 9:19 PM
Cleaning fee (by Nicole [PA]) Jan 18, 2021 9:30 PM
Cleaning fee (by plenty [MO]) Jan 18, 2021 10:54 PM
Cleaning fee (by Deanna [TX]) Jan 18, 2021 10:59 PM
Cleaning fee (by Dee Ann [WI]) Jan 18, 2021 11:53 PM
Cleaning fee (by WMH [NC]) Jan 19, 2021 7:56 AM
Cleaning fee (by S i d [MO]) Jan 19, 2021 10:58 AM
Cleaning fee (by Vee [OH]) Jan 19, 2021 6:30 PM
Cleaning fee (by Patti [OK]) Jan 21, 2021 4:46 PM
Cleaning fee (by Carmen [OR]) Jan 21, 2021 4:57 PM
Cleaning fee (by mike [CA]) Jan 21, 2021 5:19 PM
Cleaning fee (by mike [CA]) Jan 21, 2021 5:19 PM
Cleaning fee (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Jan 21, 2021 5:58 PM
Cleaning fee (by Patti [OK]) Jan 21, 2021 6:27 PM
Cleaning fee (by NJ Landlord [NJ]) Jan 21, 2021 6:29 PM
Cleaning fee (by Rigo [CA]) Jan 21, 2021 7:27 PM
Cleaning fee (by Honey [LA]) Jan 21, 2021 7:54 PM
Cleaning fee (by peter [NH]) Jan 21, 2021 9:05 PM
Cleaning fee (by dan [OR]) Jan 21, 2021 10:03 PM
Cleaning fee (by Rusty [FL]) Jan 22, 2021 12:03 PM
Cleaning fee (by April [KS]) Jan 23, 2021 9:46 AM
Cleaning fee (by NJ Landlord [NJ]) Jan 23, 2021 9:56 AM
Cleaning fee (by Patti [OK]) Jan 23, 2021 10:34 AM
Cleaning fee (by Julie [NJ]) Jan 31, 2021 10:53 PM
Cleaning fee (by JAC [OH]) Feb 1, 2021 9:25 AM
Cleaning fee (by Eric [OH]) Feb 2, 2021 4:09 AM
Cleaning fee (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Feb 6, 2021 1:17 AM
Cleaning fee (by B.B. [OH]) Posted on: Jan 18, 2021 9:06 PM Message:
I’ve finally had it with cleaning services. They do a crappy job, for the most part, and the last one I hired charged me and then went out of business before cleaning my unit. So I’m going to start cleaning the units myself. I feel like if the tenants are too lazy to leave the place in the same shape it was when they moved in, and I have to clean up after them, then I should make it worth my while. $40 bucks per hour is what I’m thinking. Thoughts?
--72.49.xxx.xxx |
Cleaning fee (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Jan 18, 2021 9:19 PM Message:
If you do it yourself and it goes to court the judge may disallow the charges.
Why not make a separate company (or an LLC?) and then pay that company. Better yet, maybe pay the kid/s to do it and then put that money in their Roth IRA's.
Of course, all that may change with change of govt.
Thing is, use what works, what the judge will allow and so on.
Also,the lousy companies that seem to be everywhere these days, likely pad their hours or work real slowly(same thing).
One thing I've noticed the last few years is that every bum and deadbeat in town says they are in the house cleaning business (cash of course, so they can continue getting free housing, free medical and free food for which we pay). Too bad the IRS doesn't give rewards for turning in tax cheats, or do they? Too bad the state does not prosecute welfare cheats. --75.7.xx.xx |
Cleaning fee (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: Jan 18, 2021 9:30 PM Message:
I would never pay up front for cleaning. Not even a deposit.
When I hire someone new, I give them a small project or two to try them out before hiring them for a large or entire project. When possible, I give them something subjective such as "clean up that area back around the garage and the fence". Do they remove all trash or just the big pieces? Do they put the trash bags to the curb, take it away in their truck or let them sit where they are? Pull weeds along fence line? Break up sticks and twigs into a can or lawn bag or put them on a pile? --72.70.xxx.xxx |
Cleaning fee (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Jan 18, 2021 10:54 PM Message:
Your certainly worth $40 an hour. Put a cleaning fee in the lease, right by security deposit, if these things aren't done the cost is a flat fee of $400 or whatever you want to be paid. --172.58.xx.xx |
Cleaning fee (by Deanna [TX]) Posted on: Jan 18, 2021 10:59 PM Message:
When I hire a cleaner, I'm not hiring their ability to scrub---- I'm hiring their time to pay attention and focus.
I don't have a lot of options in my area, but I've gone through a lot of cleaners.
Some of them refused to do the services I requested. ("You have cat urine and want us to use this special product? No, we won't use your chemicals. Sorry you paid $30 for the bottle and we ignored it. Sorry your place still smells like cat urine after we used our stuff. What if your chemicals are dangerous? No, we don't have anything specific we're worried about. No, we haven't read the instructions on the bottle. No, we haven't called the phone number on the bottle for additional information. Go ahead and pay us." "Yeah, I see that it looks like they've been walking through the living room with muddy feet for three years, but we won't do a rug shampoo, even if you provide it.")
Some of them were ineffective. ("I'm gonna spend 4 hours manually cleaning this stove, and only 30 minutes on the rest of the house...")
Some of them were okay, but overpriced.
One of them was really awesome, and priced very well, but she made it clear she didn't like one-off's, like my turnovers... she wanted weekly clients.
I finally found a cleaning service that, in addition to its weeklies and monthlies, specifically advertises they do one-off turnovers. They have three different tiers of "clean", each with its own price, and the square footage of the house also influences what the price will be. It's a flat rate, so it's predictable, although the girls themselves are paid hourly by the cleaning biz. I've had some of them take 12-14 hours for a really thorough deep cleaning... and I'm grateful that they're just able to focus.
I'm sticking to them like glue, until they get tired of my turnovers and tell me never to call them again! ;) But I expect they've seen it all. I've given them a few doozies, but I've also given them some pretty normal stuff as well... --137.118.xx.xxx |
Cleaning fee (by Dee Ann [WI]) Posted on: Jan 18, 2021 11:53 PM Message:
I was really fortunate this year. A tenant who is a regular cleaning lady moved out and left the place spotless.
Another set of tenants moving from one of our units to a larger of our units left it spotless, even got a huge carpet stain a former tenant did (and we couldn't get it out after two cleanings) alot cleaner.
The last moved to Washington D.C. left the place spotless with a few days to spare so our other tenants (above) could move in early and clean their place.
It's been many years since I haven't had to go in and clean. I gave up on cleaning services a long time ago.
--198.54.xxx.xxx |
Cleaning fee (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jan 19, 2021 7:56 AM Message:
We have a cleaning checklist. Tenant either does everything on the list or we hire someone to follow the list and take it out of deposit.
Checklist is part of the lease, so they know about it up front. Then I send it again when I get notice, and again two weeks before move. --50.82.xxx.xxx |
Cleaning fee (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Jan 19, 2021 10:58 AM Message:
You're going to hate my answer....
Don't do it!
You are worth MORE than $40/hour. Doing this yourself will limit your potential. Granted, if you're okay with owning a handful of units that turn one door every year, then okay this probably won't be much of a problem. Still, though...it's not why you became a real estate investor, I would bet.
Helpers are hard to find, so I would only hire a professional cleaning service that maybe has a franchise (like Molly Maids or whoever). They will charge $60-$80 an hour and send over a crew of 2 usually. Pay it. Bill the deposit.
Also, I can't stress this enough...an OUNCE of prevention (screening) is worth a POUND of cure (cleaning). Do the 2 minute in homes inspection many of us have been touting for the past several years. See what their home looks like 2-3 weeks before they move into yours, and you'll know whether or not you will have a disaster on your hands at move-out. Don't approve slobs.
It takes 2 minutes...just TWO minutes! And to avoid that you'd prefer to spend your entire Saturday or 2-3 evenings a week cleaning muck? Eyew.... 2 minutes!!! Do it!
--107.216.xxx.xxx |
Cleaning fee (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Jan 19, 2021 6:30 PM Message:
Follow the state and local rules, my areas in NE Ohio allow 10bux per hour for owner/manager labor, hire a niece or nephew to help you do these things. --76.188.xxx.xxx |
Cleaning fee (by Patti [OK]) Posted on: Jan 21, 2021 4:46 PM Message:
In our state if the owner does the cleaning on their own, they cannot pay themselves to clean the property. So we always hire it out for cleaning inside and out and take it out of the security deposit and if it costs more we would expect the tenants to pay back the difference. It is explained in the lease and in the move out letter we send them how we expect the property to be in the condition we gave to them. --24.253.xxx.xxx |
Cleaning fee (by Carmen [OR]) Posted on: Jan 21, 2021 4:57 PM Message:
Here in Oregon, you can not really charge for the cleaning.
We have developed 4 page helpful Move-out Guide that is sent out immediately upon notice to vacate, along with 30 day document that needs to be signed, hence move out confirmed.
The Guide states what /how is expected to clean, with outlined charges for unacceptable conditions of appliances, tubs, beyond wear and tear wall paint touch ups, etc.
It has been working quite well, and we do agree: proper screening and meeting with prospective residents are detrimental. Finding responsible cleaning service is truly challenging.
We go in after cleaners, checking on everything again, bleach wipe spots,treat cabinets and granite countertops.
We find important to give a spotless unit to new residents, plus very meticulous initial walk thru and new tenant orientation (how to take care of the unit).
--71.237.xxx.xx |
Cleaning fee (by mike [CA]) Posted on: Jan 21, 2021 5:19 PM Message:
i'd venture a guess that every reader of this post nodded their head in agreement that MOST cleaners ain't worth %#@#. if you keep the fee reasonable (and i say $40 is if it is inclusive of materials) there should be no question. if you're curious about the attitude of small claims judges in your area i urge you to sit in court for a couple of afternoons. it is time VERY well spent to get a read on what the local tolerances are for deductions. it will be a real eye opener for you to see the absurd crap they deal with daily. a well proven case of filth is mandatory, but digital pix are free and if you really want to be a pal to the judge log on to costco and get some 5x7's for his/her review. they will mail them to you directly in just a few days. if the folks you found that are doing good work for you have a crew it is a good idea to thank them personally for the great work and maybe drop a sandwich/cold drink or a tip for their effort. i have found that a hearty thank you goes a LONG way. --75.80.xx.xx |
Cleaning fee (by mike [CA]) Posted on: Jan 21, 2021 5:19 PM Message:
i'd venture a guess that every reader of this post nodded their head in agreement that MOST cleaners ain't worth %#@#. if you keep the fee reasonable (and i say $40 is if it is inclusive of materials) there should be no question. if you're curious about the attitude of small claims judges in your area i urge you to sit in court for a couple of afternoons. it is time VERY well spent to get a read on what the local tolerances are for deductions. it will be a real eye opener for you to see the absurd crap they deal with daily. a well proven case of filth is mandatory, but digital pix are free and if you really want to be a pal to the judge log on to costco and get some 5x7's for his/her review. they will mail them to you directly in just a few days. if the folks you found that are doing good work for you have a crew it is a good idea to thank them personally for the great work and maybe drop a sandwich/cold drink or a tip for their effort. i have found that a hearty thank you goes a LONG way. --75.80.xx.xx |
Cleaning fee (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Jan 21, 2021 5:58 PM Message:
My life got better when I stopped cleaning after move outs.
Cleaning other people's poo off the toilet will turn you into a bent over, grumpy LL.
And NEVER EVER NEVER ask you wife to clean a rental unless you want a divorce, or worse, to lose her as an ally in your RE business.
With lots of people "furloughed" right now SOME are looking for extra work altho little success there. The best ones have come from people who are already doing odd jobs and hustling for income, NOT the person waiting to be called back to the factory.
BTW good cleaners can become good painters with a little training. They are used to being neat and careful to make things "look good".
Quality of cleaning does not come easy so I made a 4 page checklist with specific tasks and specific methods for each room, each appliance, including PlugIn air fresheners.
It also includes things like No other persons or children allowed in the property, lock the door and do not let people walk thru the house, do not talk to anyone about the home-point them to the sign for our website "I'm just here to clean".
The checklist includes a pricing worksheet - $65 base for 3 hours work (1 hour in the kitchen, 1 hour in the bathroom, 1 hour general housekeeping), add $10 for each appliance, additional bathrooms, basement, garage.
Comes out to about $20 per hour minus supplies, but they usually work longer.
This has made getting and keeping house cleaners easier.
As with ANY hiring, plan to go thru 10 to find 1 keeper.
My lease is clear: $50 per hour for cleaning and repairs, plus materials and mileage by Management.
It includes a full page of Standard Cleaning and Repair Costs, plus 3 pages of move out instructions, all signed before they get the keys. We DELIVER a copy when they give notice, again 2 weeks before anticipated move out date, and a 3rd a week before move out.
I have to believe the $50 per hour, highlighted and initialed before they get keys is helping us see cleaner homes at move out.
BTW Carpet free has made cleaning MUCH less expensive!! And easier to make the home smell good.
BRAd
--73.102.xxx.xxx |
Cleaning fee (by Patti [OK]) Posted on: Jan 21, 2021 6:27 PM Message:
We don’t have carpet except one property and when that tenant moves we will rip it out and putting laminate flooring and tile in kitchen and bath. It is too expensive to clean carpet anymore. --24.253.xxx.xxx |
Cleaning fee (by NJ Landlord [NJ]) Posted on: Jan 21, 2021 6:29 PM Message:
In the state of NJ, the Landlord can NOT clean and charge, and deduct from the tenant's security. if they take you to court for this or a bigger issue, you will have to return the cleaning fee IF you do it.
hire a service, or hire someone you know to clean, and have them type up a bill on a letterhead. protect yourself if anything winds up in Court!!
--24.0.xx.xx |
Cleaning fee (by Rigo [CA]) Posted on: Jan 21, 2021 7:27 PM Message:
Brad and Carmen, how can I get a copy of your "Move-Out Guide"? --75.84.xx.xxx |
Cleaning fee (by Honey [LA]) Posted on: Jan 21, 2021 7:54 PM Message:
I had to look twice at the remarks from WMH/Jan 19 @ 7:56 am. I thought I wrote that!! Yes indeed, Nobody gets their keys to my place until they have signed, among other things, the form that says they understand what happens to their damage deposit if certain items aren't cleaned either by themselves or whoever they want to hire to clean for them. I specifically state what must be cleaned and what is deducted if it is not cleaned. Plus the amount for General Cleaning, including ceiling fans! Now, if the tenants have a dog or a cat, or 2 (max is 2) there is an automatic deduction for "sanitizing" for each pet: $100 each, because I explain that the next tenant may be allergic to other peoples' pets, etc. And at the end of the day, I always tell my tenants that I love to give them back all of their deposits. It works for me! --24.252.xxx.xxx |
Cleaning fee (by peter [NH]) Posted on: Jan 21, 2021 9:05 PM Message:
The issue I have is that I always look for cleaners that have workers comp. insurance. Like painters, they are only 1 out of ten for every one I call. And yes some lie and say they workers comp. ins. but you must verify through their insurance company as it is different from business liability insurance (and costs a lot).
Sorry to be a bummer but this is a pet peeve of mine after being a contractor. If you have any assets to lose all it takes is one person to "say" they got hurt while on your property working "for you". Many years ago one of my employees/workers/buddies" took me to school". That experience is burned in my memory forever and then some.
Your business insurance will NOT cover an injury, lost income or attorney fees to defend you. In addition, if this person leaves the job and drives to the store to get lunch and gets in an accident YOU are also on the hook because they were working on YOUR job. If they have workers comp. on themselves but bring a helper and pay them cash if the helper gets hurt YOU are again on the hook and can be sued. Depending on how much you are worth one incident could cost you everything. Attorneys love for this situation IF you have any assets to take.
,
In my state the worker could also sue you and say (with the advice of an attorney) they were really an employee and not an independent contractor. If you are found guilty of this the state fees are enormous. Back when I was a contractor employees would beg me to pay them as independent contractors. I have heard that at the state level there are many independent contractors that go to court after an injury to prove that they were really employees (that way they can sue their "employers").
I have met a few what I consider really rich investors and they will simply never hire a tenant or vendor to do work unless they have a workers comp policy in force. --75.67.xxx.xxx |
Cleaning fee (by dan [OR]) Posted on: Jan 21, 2021 10:03 PM Message:
Pictures do not lie!
I just inspected home that my tenant had lived in for 5 years, it looked better in many respects, she manicured the yard and she was a caring tenant.
I armed myself, with a virtual video to her (I also use that when I was renting the property and after she saw the video. She was very interested.)
Some people simply want clean and nice.
I'm happy to say that upon inspection, I myself and friends of mine went to the property and the lady that went with me is a professional cleaner she does homes on a daily basis.
She lifted the stovetop, and said take a look at this!
All the way to the new furnace filter! I made it a point when I shot the video to show the furnace filter being installed with the video..
She replaced this every 60 days. That was a contractual requirement.
Great tenants are an accident and as owners, it is our responsibility to make sure that they love the property.
Unfortunately in Oregon it is a tenant rights state, therefore I will most likely think hard before I re-rent the property. Especially with the pandemic,
I am happy to report that with the exception of her changing the showerhead,
I did return to her 100% of our deposit,
The property is absolutely shameful and dust free, including the blinds!
Do yourselves a favor and shoot a virtual video of the property, take pictures and have your camera handy and allow your occupants that are incoming to take pictures of areas that they think you might miss in your property condition report.
I've been in the business for over 40 years and I think that I am about ready to relax just a little bit, especially with the state laws of Oregon.
To your success, and more important your preparations!!!
When placing your next tenants
--97.120.xx.xx |
Cleaning fee (by Rusty [FL]) Posted on: Jan 22, 2021 12:03 PM Message:
I had a list of "costs @ move-out" attached to the lease. It had things like - toilet cleaning $40, range cleaning $50, carpet cleaning $65/room, etc. The tenant signed the list @ time of move -in. Never had a complaint & it holds up in court. One judge asked me why I charged $5 to replace burned out light bulbs, I told her the cost was not to overcharge them but to give the tenants incentive to do it themselves. She agreed & let the charges stand. --173.170.xxx.xx |
Cleaning fee (by April [KS]) Posted on: Jan 23, 2021 9:46 AM Message:
I have a 6-page document with "Move Instructions." It has 4 sections: 1) answers to common deposit and move questions, 2) a list of charges for potential cleaning or repairs, 3) instructions for best cleaning practices to help them maximize their deposit refund, and 4) "sign here" and provide your new address. I tell them to text me after they sign it and walk out the door for the last time. Then I do the e-inspection. Residents are not present for the walk thru. This lets them vacate after regular business hours (weekends or evenings when most people move). The next business day I do the e-inspection and take my time. I email them photos of any issues and we discuss via email. Been doing e-inspections for 4 years now (before Covid) and it works great! Residents appreciate the flexibility and freedom to move when their ready and done. No face-to-face meeting is less stressful on them during what's already a stressful time. The photos are my proof. The signed Move Instructions are also proof to a judge that they knew what any potential costs were and agreed. This process cut disputes down to almost zero. One of the best decisions I ever made was going to e-inspections. --24.111.xxx.xxx |
Cleaning fee (by NJ Landlord [NJ]) Posted on: Jan 23, 2021 9:56 AM Message:
most tenants want to be present when they move for the walk-through. i tell them, 'no, i need a Handyman here and this inspecdtion takes time and will be thorough. i will send you photographs of any damage and an itemized list security deposit deductions".
the first time or 2 when i became a Landlord, i stupidly agreed to do an inspection with them, just me, and after they omved out and the paper of whatever damages was signed, i found 3 broken windows, stained rugs, broken latches on doors, etc. never do an inspectdion with them present, because they will argue that they didn't cause that damage, but it was NOT on the Move-In signed list !! --24.0.xx.xx |
Cleaning fee (by Patti [OK]) Posted on: Jan 23, 2021 10:34 AM Message:
We have never had clean after they move out when we hired a cleaning service to clean the property and want their full SD back and we show them the receipt from t the company. Nowhave a move inspection form that they sign when they move in where it says that everything in the property is in working order and cleaned. Now I have a moving out form that is on the same as the move in form that I use when they move out and I make a copy of it and send them a security deposit statement with that so they know what we charge them for and we take pictures of all damaged we charged for. In the state we have 30 days to return what is left of their SD and they always want have any their SD immediately. --24.253.xxx.xxx |
Cleaning fee (by Julie [NJ]) Posted on: Jan 31, 2021 10:53 PM Message:
Would those of you who have a move out list, or a cleaning doc be willing to share it? It would be so helpful.
Some of you who wrote you have one:
(by Carmen [OR])
by BRAD 20,000 [IN]- 4page checklist
(by April [KS])- 6 page move instructions
and anyone else with a list.
Thank you!! --71.168.xxx.xxx |
Cleaning fee (by JAC [OH]) Posted on: Feb 1, 2021 9:25 AM Message:
Regardless of what might or might not be legal this happens in SW Ohio all the time as a deduction of the deposit. My daughter rented a craphole in college with her friend. Dirty and tons of maintenance issues when she moved in. Prior to her move out the place was scrubbed clean and they charged $200 ($100 each) for cleaning against the deposit. Every college lease my daughter have completed there are deductions for cleaning because they are the most likely to accepted if you go to court. Since this was a shared lease and she paid the deposit I didn't pursue it but if it would have been just her you can bet we would have been going to SC court. I bet my move out pictures were better than theirs. --74.83.xx.xxx |
Cleaning fee (by Eric [OH]) Posted on: Feb 2, 2021 4:09 AM Message:
Digital photos are cheap. Each property gets its own memory card. I date each room by front page of the paper on move-in / lease signing. Each room gets 6 pictures - ceiling, 4 walls and floor - backed up by inspection from myself and tenant. Up close photos for major damages. Pictures are worth $$$. Can’t argue with a picture. Then in court — judge can see move-in versus move-out pictures displayed in full color on a 7 x 10 tablet. Cover your assets.
In the olden days, I did the same with 2-3 rolls of 24 exposure film. Masking tape location and date. Cost of film $ 5. Only developed film if I was taken to court. Still have rolls of undeveloped film. --184.54.xxx.xx |
Cleaning fee (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Feb 6, 2021 1:17 AM Message:
Walk thru video is good but my court (and maybe yours) will not accept video or digital evidence. My judge will only accept prints.
I've tried grabbing stills from the video but they are sometimes blurred from the motion and never as sharp and clear as a still shot by my iPhone.
We upload the photos to the hard drive, file for each house, with a file for each res, Move IN folder, Move OUT folder.
Very easy to compile the before and after pics for charging or court on a WORD document with descriptions and prices under each photo.
BRAD --73.102.xxx.xxx |
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