I have one of my 19 units that I am using as a semi – charity case. I am allowing this family to live in a nice house in return for them paying the (mortgage plus taxes plus insurance plus local rental license fees). So I am not making a dollar on this rental. Before you chastise me for that, that’s not the issue here. I am OK helping out a person in need, but now I want your advice on a situation that has come up. This is a mom and five kids, and she’s had a ‘tough go of it’ for the last five years, hence us helping out by keeping her rent as affordable as possible in the school district where the kids have been doing well.

Things are going along fine, rents paid on time and house is kept nice, and now six months on, we get a call to have a meeting where she tells us that she is going into the Army Reserves and has to go away for five months. So she plans to have a rotating cast of people coming into our house to oversee the children, and ostensibly to take care of the place. We don’t know all of these people... as a matter of fact, she doesn’t even know who’s going to be there at any given time... It’s going to be whoever can fill in. Mostly her mom and her brothers and sisters-in-law, but also stepsisters and their significant others. We do know a couple of the closer relatives, and they are not people that we would have rented to, due to some personal issues/habits we know they have.

Our lease specifies that our tenant is not to have other people moving into the place at any time during the term of this lease without written consent of the owners. That’s us. And we were never asked about this. Our lease also specifies that there is no subletting of the unit, or assigning of responsibility to anyone else. The reason We don’t want that kind of thing happening, is because we want to know who is in control of our asset, and have trust in that person. We rented the place to her, not all these other people. Also, obviously these other people are not familiar with the place, so if something goes wrong we don’t know how they will handle it. Now, the kids (ages 10-15) will be there and they do know a lot about the house. But does that make it OK for her to entrust our house to a bunch of other people who we don’t know?

We want to work with this lady, but it’s really hard when she did not ask us about this at all, and just dropped it on us after she had already signed up with the government, and now we have to deal with her responsibilities to them for the next six years. Which I guess means that there will be different people in our house ‘one weekend a month and two weeks a year,’ just like the commercials say… We are not real thrilled with this idea,

Now, don’t get me wrong – we are very patriotic people and we definitely appreciate the service that our military does. Heck, I cry when they’re playing the national anthem before a baseball game. I love America, am proud to live here, and proud to try to do right by people in my business, but does that patriotic feeling mean I have to bend over when the tenant decides she wants more benefits for her kids?

When I expressed concern about the situation, a recruiting officer for the reserves tried to threaten me with SCRA laws, although in my research I can’t find anything that deals with anything other than termination, and we’re not trying to do that.

All I want to know is how to write this kind of stuff into a lease addendum for the first five months away, and then how do I write a new lease that includes the ‘one weekend a month and two weeks a year?’ I know she won’t be able to have the same person helping out every time she’s away, so writing in a clause to address this will be hard

And we don’t have a rental escalation clause in our lease, because we were trying to keep it at just the expenses. But if she’s making an extra $300 a month, now she can afford to pay more rent, right? Or should I not feel that way, because it’s military service? Either way, money is money and she’s not as poor as she was. Why should I give her this nice house at $400 below market rate, when she now has income that would at least let me put a teeny bit in my pocket… I’m thinking of asking for an increase of $40 a month. If she complains about that, I will just say how much we have stretched our normal procedures to accommodate her and say that this is the least she could do to help us out, after all we are already doing for her. Right?

I will look forward to your opinions, I’m sure they will be on both sides of the Issues

Kindness is what put you into this situation.

You've given this woman a great, kind, at-cost deal.

And that's not enough for her. She thinks she deserves more discounts and accommodation at your expense.

Any lease addendum will mean nothing to her. If she signs it, she'll ignore it. Or she'll refuse and be angry at you.

You really want to work with this woman and want more of this? You're leaving 5 grand on the table out of kindness and well, just being frank, look at the reward she returns to you.

My first house, I gave a great deal to a family that was somewhat poor. And gosh, they sure looked at me like a rich jerk when I would go to their house and pick up rent, even though their $700 unit was only $450. That was the thanks I got.

I am guessing the recruiter does not know the full story about multiple people/rotting people at the house. Yes, you can break a lease for the military with paperwork. Has she just signed up and not goen through the testing?

How will the kids be supported?

Self-inflicting.

Hmm, that's an interesting one!

If your income is sufficient and you have the inclination to give to charity, that is great. That is what you are doing here - so you must think of it that way for now. You are giving her $400/month toward housing her family. Or, basically loaning her your house. I'm curious how you met her.

She must be fairly young to be joining the military, and 5 kids in 5 years - no mention of a husband. Wow! She has a lot of responsibility.

You also didn't say that she has felon babies daddies coming around & moving in, and that she keeps the place nice and the children do well in school. Joining the military is a great way to improve yourself, your job skills, and get GREAT, CHEAP healthcare coverage for the family. [BTW: my son is in the reserves & his pay basically covers the healthcare premium] These things seem to indicate she is working to better her life, which is commendable. I also thing it is a plus that she came and told you about different people coming in to care for the kids, rather than just doing it. (the recruiter butting in is a bit of a concern)

So, here is what I believe I would do:

Sit down and have a conversation with her. Explain how you acknowledge her work & effort to improve her situation. And explain all your concerns and why you have them. See how cooperative she will be when she knows you are trying to "help her help herself". Even ask her about why the recruiter called. She may have just voiced a concern to him/her & they took it upon themselves to call & "threaten" you - without her request to do so. Who knows - ask if you want to know. Discuss how rent will be paid while she is in training. If you haven't already, set it up to be automatic from the account where her pay is deposited.

I think you should absolutely get the full name and contact information for ALL the people who MAY be involved in caring for the children. See if you can openly communicate with ALL of them, and have them tell you who is there when. In case something goes wrong during "their" time, you know who to contact. Make it clear in a document - in addition to the rental agreement - that she is responsible for Everything and Everybody, even when she is not there. Also, that nobody else can become a resident - only short-term guests. Make sure they ALL understand the terms of the lease and agree to abide by it. You might even try to get them all together for a group meeting (Best way) and explain it all once, & watch everyone's reactions - how much are they willing to abide by to really help her & the kids?

Now, with all that said - this is NOT landlord work I am describing - it is CHARITY work. If you are involved in this type of charity work, you must be more involved with the people you are trying to help - to guide them. That is what you have here, and I think these steps will help the process go more smoothly, keep good will, AND return your property to you in good condition when you put it back into business.

Best wishes to you and her. Hopefully, everyone will end up successful.

Also remember, though, that not everyone who receives charity deserves it or does the right thing with it, or is grateful for it. It's a chance you take - sometimes the help can really change peoples' lives for the better.

My decisions would be made with some of the following in mind:

I'm not sure from what you say whether she has been there for five years or six months?

Do you have a personal relationship with her - family, friend or some other connection - or a total stranger?

I'm not sure you have any real say if she has someone staying over one weekend a month or two weeks in the summer.

Contradicting my prior thought, at those ages, why not tell her you want the kids to stay at the caregivers houses. My kids and grandkids had sleep overs with friends or relatives almost every weekend at those ages.

I am learning myself that RE investing needs to be run as a professional business. I have unfortunately cost myself money by feeling like that I needed to keep the rent low as life is expensive. In the end I realized that it really didn't matter and I was just hurting myself while they benefited.

A lot of times people are undeserving of help because they claim too be unable to pay bills but yet they have cable or satellite tv and the fastest internet speeds and go on vacations every year weather they can afford them or not and in most cases as is here, they keep popping kids out knowing that they can't afford them or manage them. They also refuse to get rid of the cable tv and lower the internet speed or not even have it.

It is nice of you to try and help them out but I believe there are better ways then forgiving $400/m in rent.

If you were ever in her previous position, would she have kept your rent $400/m below market?

DJ had a solution of sorts.

I'd kick her and the kids out, but your local judges might not allow that. It depends upon how progressive your housing court judges are.

I'm just going to point out a life lesson that I have learned the hard way. If you are nice to people, they don't think that they should be nice back. They just think you are easy to take advantage of.

In future, if you want to do charity work, separate it from your rental business and make your donations through registered charities. That sets a firm limit on how much money your "charity" can dig out of your pocket. I suspect that this current charity case is going to end up costing you a lot of money that your were not budgeting to give to it.

Perhaps you should go and speak to a local eviction specialist lawyer and hear what he has to say about your situation and about what your lease actually says about it.

Single mom, 5 kids, trying to make a go of it. I'm guessing she doesn't have a spare ounce of energy to look at life from your perspective. She probably took this on, seeing it as a path to a better life.

That said, a mom who leaves 5 kids at those ages for that period of time...I'd be very, very worried. Unless she has an extraordinarily large and competent family network, there will be days when the ball gets dropped and there's no responsible adult there at all.

I'd sit down with her and explain that having a revolving door of caregivers is not compatible with the terms of her lease. If it were me, I'd tell her mom-to-mom that her kids need her and ask her if she's considered other career options that are more compatible with being a single mom.

Ultimately, I'd tell her that her options are a) break her lease and move out, or b) risk an eviction filing for noncompliance with the terms of her lease. You might further explain that, even if the court doesn't allow her to be evicted, if she chooses this course of action her lease will not be renewed and she will have to find somewhere else to live in six months.

You have already been threatened with SCRA laws. What is next?

I would be very careful.

Is this a minority person? If so could fair housing put a spin on this and turn it into an issue with family size or status. Especially during the past year. Simple logic does not apply anymore.

In your case I would ride it out until the lease expires. Get another tenant paying 400.00 more. Then give this unappreciative ex tenant the extra 400.00 a month.

God bless you for helping someone who needs it.

Please reconsider allowing "The Plan" that has been presented to you.

My real question is---What sort of parent of 5 children makes this sort of decision. In my opinion this is totally wrong and irresponsible.

Children 10-15 need supervision. As a retired middle school and high school teacher I know that children are not capable of this arrangement with people coming in and out.

Who knows what will/could happen? I will not even go there.

I thought I knew how to complicate my life better than anybody on here, but I have to say, you win!

I’m pretty sure the SCRA doesn’t address this, other than to say you cannot evict the family due to deployment.

The idea that there will be a rotating cast of people rotating through the home is kind of scary, particularly since you know for a fact some of them are people who don’t pass your rental qualifications.

I’m actually kind of surprised the military signed her up, but as my son says, there is a waiver for everything. Uncle Sam will accept people as old as 39 joining up, so she is not that old, even with 5 kids. 5 months sounds like basic and the shortest AIT there is.

It sounds like you are stuck. At least for now, You need to get with your attorney and discuss your options, You are not legally allowed to evict under the SCRA, I’m pretty sure. You also can’t raise the rent right now, but can in a few months.

What you can do is set some rules. Discuss all of these with your lawyer.

First, this parade of people - them staying for a short time to supervise the children does not make them residents of the home. That needs to be in writing, You don’t want people who don’t pass your screening to be staying indefinitely.

Next, you need to know at all times who will be there. You need their contact info. Whoever is coordinating the schedule needs to stay in contact with you. Additionally, no violent felons, no drug dealers, no sex offenders, and no more than two extra people at a time. Your property is not to become a party house while she is gone. She is still on the hook for any damage, and if any of her relatives are dealing out of the home, you will call CPS to take custody of the children and the dealer will be out, and she will be on the hook for any damages to the home, plus you will go through the eviction process.

Next, you need to get her rent set up so that it is auto drafted from her account on her pay day. She will be receiving BAH while she is at training, to cover the cost of housing of the family while she is gone. She will be paid on the 1st and 15th of each month. You need what is due to you to be coming to you, and you need to be certain that the utilities are also being paid.

Then, provide notice that at the conclusion of the current lease term (I’m assuming she is in a 12 month lease) the rent is going up to market rent. You gave her a serious discount to help her get on her feet, and she is doing so. You can’t take the hit forever, and you didn’t give birth to her or her kids and are not financially responsible for them.

If you read the OP carefully, the mom is going to be away for FIVE SOLID MONTHS while going through basic training. Leaving five kids behind to be cared for by a rotating roster of relatives.

I am a retired Senior Chief.....don't sweat the SCRA. The recruiter is claiming that is a reasonable accommodation.

If someone who has 5 dependents and is single, getting them into the military is going to be a tremendous hassle for the recruiter especially if this person is single. For this to work - two waivers at MEPS would be required. Assuming she has a special skill set of some sorts - perhaps a medical back ground for example. They will absolutely need to submit a dependent plan prior to leaving them. You should be entitled to copy of that if the only person over 18 is leaving. Good on the applicant for having a plan formulated for child care - even if it isn't ideal for you.

Since the family income level is going to be changing, you should be allowed to know what the pay grade they are going into the military at..... the reserves are different than regular military. Referencing the SCRA you should be permitted a copy of the PCS orders. It is unclear if there actually be PCS orders though, as typically you need to be a way for 180 days to get them - training might be an exception

Say she goes in as an E-5, that will mean she will be getting paid E-5 with dependents housing allowance - and a separation allowance. You might want to look up what this amount is as this is part of the families new income. This amount also includes funds to pay for utilities so don't think you can charge the whole amount.

You should not be treating service members as charity cases......a heart felt thank you instead goes a long way. If you are feeling charity like go ahead buy DJ a beer instead as they are also a vet.

Robin, I missed that five month part.

5 kids with unknown "supervision" for 5 months??? Hard pass. Time to end her MTM.

Sweetie and I believe in charity. We also believe in good business practices, and not mixing the two.

Rent that place out at market rates, and if you like, donate the monthly difference to this lady. That way is is up to you when the charity ends and how much.

Hey everybody, thanks so much for all the input!

Another couple points for clarification.

First of all, the family has only been in the house six months. We bought it in June and took the month to fix it up, then they moved in on July 1.

#2 She was not in any type of military ever in her life. This turns out to be a very early midlife crisis, precipitated by her father dying and telling her that he had regrets and she should not: that she should go pursue her dreams.

#3 We do appreciate her work ethic, her responsibility for the kids, and the fact that she’s doing this alone. She is shouldering a tremendous amount of responsibility. Right now, I think she’s just not feeling right about her dad‘s passing and her unfulfilled dreams.

3a. She is all about trying to make herself and her situation better. And we do appreciate that, hence the help. It’s just that she’s taking this situation a little far… And been very uncommunicative about it, until dropping it on us after committing to something that is opposite her commitment to our lease.

#4 Those who mentioned absence of male figures were spot-on: she escaped an abusive relationship and brought the kids back home where she has some family support. The dad is not helping at all, and she doesn’t have the money to pay legal fees to get him to be responsible. (On a sidenote, this jacka$$ has actually started another family with his new girlfriend, as far as we’ve heard. It’s unbelievable!) But her lack of financial support is also what’s leading us to try to help.

#5. Our original plan included having them live there indefinitely and pay all the bills and take care of it as if it were their own house, and then once they are able to buy it from us, they will. And it will be their house forever.

So to the commentor who mentioned ‘making things complicated’… That’s exactly right! And to the “self-inflicted“ comment… Absolutely! And to the recent comment about ‘good deeds and punishment’…we feel ya!

Thanks again for the perspectives!

...The dad is not helping at all, and she doesn’t have the money to pay legal fees to get him to be responsible. (....

domestic relations doesn't cost anything in Pennsylvania - well perhaps $35 annually but that gets deducted out of a future payment. She files (probably online, not sure) and DRO does the rest for her. That said, you can't get blood from a turnip but she'd at least have an order.

Doesn't she qualify for any type services - section 8, liheap, snap, chip, etc?

Sounds like you're screwed. Your wife will not want to revoke the charity especially so soon.

I suggest you either give them the house, let them deal with it, or you owner-finance a loan and let them make loan payments instead of rent payments. That way, at least, you won't be on the hook for house expenses, maintenance or liabilities.

Hey Nicole, thanks for that message. I don’t know anything about domestic relations. I do know dad is in Florida or Louisiana. When they escaped, it was from Florida. And now he’s with with his new gig, and she has had trouble getting him to accept the papers. He outsmarts anybody from previous courts who have tried to serve him. I didn’t know that stuff was free, but I know She doesn’t have money to throw at lawyers or private investigators.

As far as qualifying for services, probably…

I personally don’t know a whole lot about this stuff, as in my other units I do not accept HUD or other housing assistance. I did tell her about LIHEAP,(hope she got it) and I know she gets food stamps. I think the kids have some kind of state – provided medical coverage. And I would think she gets benefits from her company, but I don’t know what they are. But trying to keep a family of 6 going on a mediocre salary (she’s basically a social worker) is tough even with some help.

She is proud, she has a need to prove herself, and also wants her kids to see that if you work for something, you can do it. She doesn’t want to be on assistance any more than necessary, and doesn’t want them to learn that type of lifestyle. That’s part of the reason we’re helping.

As far as it not ending well… I was prepared for the relationship to change, but I wasn’t ready for her to start doing things against our agreement. In the long run, this new path may be better for her, but it also tells me that what we have done for them is definitely secondary to whatever she wants to do.

...She is proud, she has a need to prove herself, and also wants her kids to see that if you work for something, you can do it. She doesn’t want to be on assistance any more than necessary, and doesn’t want them to learn that type of lifestyle. That’s part of the reason we’re helping....

and therein is the basic problem. She has to learn all that on her own. She wants xx and she doesn't want xx. But reality is reality sometimes.

Applause to the tenant for working to improve her career and life prospects.

Like many in the situation of being on public welfare and/or private habits, there is not a single identifiable point where the on/off switch of being "independent" financially is definitely clear. This is also true in any fledgling business, including landlording.

She did the responsible thing by you and by the lease in informing you in advance of the possibility of bringing other occupants into the house, even on a temporary basis. She may even have done it too early, since her proposed plan was not yet completely gelled as to who or when.

The early notification had the unfortunate side effect of getting you too anxious too early. However, it does give you the opportunity to give her the feedback that you need a more targeted and identifiable list of caretakers/temporary occupants. You can also tell her early on who specifically would not be acceptable to you. As J suggested, the same one or two people may be an acceptable alternative.

She may have given you that extremely preliminary notification because she trusts your wife (as "big sister") to help identify any shortcomings in the proposed plan, just as any trusted mentor would do, whether it be in personal situation or as a business advisor. The problem in this mentorship relationship is that it has been complicated by you having a financial tie-in to her life, and therefore a feeling that you should have a say in her life and career decisions. That is like the not-so-golden handcuffs that welfare and Section 8 impose on people, where they are hampered from getting past the intermediate stages because of judgment/restrictions/loss of benefits.

As for the recruiter, I suspect that he took it upon himself to "help" when she likewise was simply asking for advice or feedback as to how to handle a situation. She may not be aware that he was imposing himself on a situation rather than being a sounding board. In effect, he has taken on some attitudes that you have shown, but on a smaller scale. (That is not an insult. It is an observation. One life skill is being careful of when and where to ask for input because sometimes that "advisor" can make your life worse with misguided help, kind of like the government often does.)

My suggestion is that you simply dispassionately give her the restrictions that are acceptable to you (i.e. I need one or two names of responsible people that will be the effective guardians for the five months, they need to be approved by me, and after approval I will give written permission). This, in turn, will help her by allowing her to use those solid (and written) parameters to line up her caregivers. Those restrictions are probably also in line with what the military requires for identification of caregivers for minors of service people. (I don't know for certain. I am assuming. based upon Ray's post.)

I also suggest, for any landlord dealing with any tenant, that while you be aware of potential issues and liabilities, you do not pre-catastophize for someone who has been a good tenant. Your duty is simply to dispassionately identify what would and would not work for you and your property, without getting in the way of her pursuing her career goals. More often than not, the responsible tenant will find a third way that works for the both of you based on the feedback. If that does not happen, then address it as per your decided business practices.

What she did not sign up for was for anyone to require prior approval of her legitimate career choices for as long as she rents from them, even at a reduced rent. Nor did she seem like she was asking for you to deal with her responsibilities for the next six years. She simply seemed like she was giving you the required notification.

I suspect that you should leave it to your wife to play the "big sister" advisor role, where she needs to.

I don't see how any of this will change your point #5 regarding buying the house. It will probably enable her to buy the house that much faster.

I don't see how this is against your agreement, as you repeatedly state. She is communicating with you in advance of putting anyone in your house for 5 months, as per the agreement. You simply say Yes, No, or I need more information. Give her the respect of that simple business communication, as opposed to assuming what is going on in her head.

As for someone calling her "Missy" and telling her to get a local job, people serving in the reserves have local jobs. They also have foresight enough to get benefits for them and their families that many local jobs no longer provide. That is, taking advantages of opportunities, like landlords do.

Ray gave you some good advice, if you will follow it.

Sir Walter, thank you for the insightful perspective, and references to others good advice. I definitely agree with a lot of what you were saying, but I have one major question: Why is it OK for someone to sign a lease that says they will be fully and solely responsible for my house for 12 months, and then tell me that They have decided -for whatever reason- that they’ll be having other people who I don’t know (and didn’t/wouldn’t sign a lease with) take over that responsibility full-time for 5 straight months?

Just like most leases, mine has rules about anyone else moving into the house after the lease is in effect - not allowed – and a full clause on subletting - also not allowed.

"Our lease specifies that our tenant is not to have other people moving into the place at any time during the term of this lease without written consent of the owners."

As per your post, your lease states that she has to ask for consent. That is what she is doing. Therefore, she is following your lease.

You did not say that she said she was assigning responsibility to someone else, or asked to assign responsibility to someone else. Nor did you say she was subletting. These are separate from asking for consent from someone moving in, or someone being an extended guest, or additional occupant, or whatever. It is your duty to emphasize to her that she still has full and sole responsibility (in a non-patronizing tone) so that no assumptions will be made.

Your business decisions are:

1. Determining whether to consent to her (one or two) specified people as temporary occupants for 5 months, probably giving them an application and doing an in-house visit, so you can check on how they left previous places they rented (prior landlord references). You may only need for them to fill out only portions of the application. Your call. Those people may or may not be the same as on her dependent plan that Ray mentions, based on your approval. In her separate role as a mentor, your wife may be able to better communicate requirements for approval to her, and work with her on the dependent plan so that they overlap. That allows you to stick with the landlord role.

2. (Since your families are closely involved) alternatively suggesting Aunt Susie or Cousin Sam, if you know that they would be more responsible and stable than Brother Billy.

3. Determining if you are going to step up inspections during the 5 months, and if so, on what schedule. The inspections should not be any different than what you are doing with your 19 other residences.

4. Emphasizing any points in your lease or rule book that the responsible adult needs to know, i.e. about how frequently the house should be checked on if the occupants are away for X days or more and identifying who specifically would do so. For instance, either my lease or rule book says 3 days, I send out frost/freeze warnings and preventative instructions to newer residents, etc in the winter months. Therefore, follow your normal practices, or beef up your practices that you will also follow in the future with all 19 residences.

5. Doing a walkthru with the temporary occupant showing them what you might show any other new resident (water shutoff valve, electrical panel, whatever you do in your normal practice.) I would suggest involving the 15 year old in that walk-through, too. Again, same practice as with a new resident in any of your rentals.

Hi and thanks for the continued response, insight, and recommendations. All very good stuff.

I just need to clarify one more thing. Nowhere in here did I mention that she is ASKing for permission to do this. She is already signed up to go to basic training on January 18. She has put together this military form called a care plan for her children, and TOLD me that this is how things will be taken care of at the house. I am being forced into the situation against my will and against our lease. I did not give consent (yet) for this arrangement, but it is going to happen, and my hand is being forced.

My OP was to ask for advice on how to word an addendum, and how to proceed in the future, including raising the rent in a touchy situation. Everyone’s insight and advice on those topics has been much appreciated. Has anyone ever been forced to accept such an arrangement as I am describing, and how did you handle it in the lease/addendum?

She "jumped" around a lot before landing in your place? Did this jumping involve evictions? If so, you also have a mindset problem. People who dodge rent think differently than we do.