OT: Lockdown response (by S i d [MO]) Dec 2, 2020 1:57 PM
OT: Lockdown response (by JAC [OH]) Dec 2, 2020 2:09 PM
OT: Lockdown response (by 6x6 [TN]) Dec 2, 2020 2:28 PM
OT: Lockdown response (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Dec 2, 2020 2:55 PM
OT: Lockdown response (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Dec 2, 2020 2:57 PM
OT: Lockdown response (by John... [MI]) Dec 2, 2020 3:37 PM
OT: Lockdown response (by S i d [MO]) Dec 2, 2020 4:04 PM
OT: Lockdown response (by Barb [MO]) Dec 2, 2020 5:03 PM
OT: Lockdown response (by 6x6 [TN]) Dec 2, 2020 5:12 PM
OT: Lockdown response (by Allym [NJ]) Dec 2, 2020 5:21 PM
OT: Lockdown response (by Sisco [MO]) Dec 2, 2020 6:59 PM
OT: Lockdown response (by NE [PA]) Dec 2, 2020 7:05 PM
OT: Lockdown response (by NE [PA]) Dec 2, 2020 7:07 PM
OT: Lockdown response (by Allym [NJ]) Dec 3, 2020 12:39 PM
OT: Lockdown response (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Dec 3, 2020 2:37 PM
OT: Lockdown response (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Dec 3, 2020 5:36 PM
OT: Lockdown response (by Small potatoes [NY]) Dec 4, 2020 1:15 AM
OT: Lockdown response (by Pmh [TX]) Dec 4, 2020 6:03 PM
OT: Lockdown response (by Pmh [TX]) Dec 4, 2020 6:21 PM
OT: Lockdown response (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2020 1:57 PM Message:
The site isn't showing if my response to OT: inaccuracies was accepted or not, so I'm reposting here:
.
I've said it before and will say it again: the numbers we are seeing in the USA are just part of the story. Zoom out and you will quickly see a much larger story: we are TRADING lives, not SAVING lives.
John brought up an excellent point about counting excess deaths. Okay, I will accept that there are 300,000 EXTRA USA deaths from C-19.
But now you must (in the name of science, stats, etc) balance that against the World Hunger Organizations estimates of:
1) 130 - 300 MILLON additional people starving this year due to economic slow down.
2) 20 - 40 MILLION additional people pushed into what they term "abject povery". This is not American poverty where you only have one free Govt phone and a 45 inch TV. This is "do I sell my 12-year-old daughter as a prostitute so I can eat?" poverty.
So even at the most conservative estimate (130 million + 20 million)....that is 150 MILLION more people who will either die or suffer a fate some would prefer to die rather than suffer.
300,000 to 150 MILLION is a 1 to 500 ratio. For every one Americans lost, 500 people elsewhere in a land without as much as we enjoy are dying or being sold into rape slavery.
Think on that, and tell me the shut down was a great idea.
Now....
If you want to DO something about what has already been done I would advise two things:
1) LEt your elected officials know a second round of shut downs is out of the question. We are literally killing people at a ratio of 500 to 1 already. It will only get worse.
2) Consider donating to relief organizations like the one my church is partnering with: Venture.org. This highly rate charity serves the poorest of the poor in countries where $1 buys 10 meals and keeps a person a live and keeps a girl out of prostitution for 3 more days. Maybe for a lifetime, if you're feeling generous enough.
That's all I've got to say for now.
--107.216.xxx.xxx |
OT: Lockdown response (by JAC [OH]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2020 2:09 PM Message:
Your math is incorrect. I will make it easy for you. Less crowds equals less infections equals less hospitalization equals less death. --50.5.xxx.xxx |
OT: Lockdown response (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2020 2:28 PM Message:
Thank you Sid. --73.120.xx.xxx |
OT: Lockdown response (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2020 2:55 PM Message:
SID,
Interesting point.
To borrow a popular phrase - When the US sneezes the rest of the world catches cold. Only worse.
BRAD --73.102.xxx.xxx |
OT: Lockdown response (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2020 2:57 PM Message:
The problem with lockdowns is that they give politicians something to blame so whatever they do doesn't reflect on them, it makes their biggest multi-billion dollar donors happy, and brings them more power and authority over our lives. It's not about saving lives. At least it won't be this time. The first time I think was, until they realized the benefits of the lockdown. Now they're just in it for the money, power and deniability.
Forget letting your officials know, start recalling them or trying to get them thrown out of office if they infringe on our liberties. And as far as relief organizations go, I would rather donate to charities helping Americans. However, don't fall for the charities that spend 90% or more on salaries and marketing and only spend a handful doing what they say they were formed to do. --108.69.xxx.xxx |
OT: Lockdown response (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2020 3:37 PM Message:
First, you seem to be mixing USA numbers and WORLD numbers to come up with statistics that don't make sense.
Second, do you have a link to the WHO where they give those numbers? I did a quick search and couldn't find it. (It's not that I don't believe you -- I just think there is more to it and would like to read their data and information.)
- John...
--67.209.xxx.xx |
OT: Lockdown response (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2020 4:04 PM Message:
John.... I know you're a data and math geek like me, so it's easy to find relatively minor errors and fixate on those. YES, I'm mixing US data so far, but just for the sake of argument let's use the data for the world. I'm having a little trouble finding the original article that said 300 million, but one I found below says 270 million. Close enough. I did find the one that talks about 130 million, minimum. It's actually the UN World Food Programme. See the links below.
One article says we could see 300,000 starvations death per day....every 24 hours! That equals all US C-19 deaths over 8 months...in one DAY.
I did a quick google whack and it seems the consensus view is 1.5 million people have died worldwide in excess due to Covid-19. Let's pretend, for sake of argument, we did no Govt lockdown whatsoever and just carried on business as usual. It is logical to assume that individuals would have still taken some precautious, especially as death tolls began to rise. Let's say the count reasonably would have gone up 10x higher. That would be 15 million world-wide.
We balance that against 130 MILLION starving on the low end of all the estimates. It's barely 10%.
We haven't even gotten to the 20-40 million pushed in abject poverty.
Below are links to the stats on starvation and abject poverty. Shut downs have and will continue wreaked ENORMOUS tragic death across the globe, and few people are talking about this as a concern. We have to do better than "lock down again!"
A few quotes from the articles:
"This fight is far, far, far from over – the 270 million people marching toward the brink of starvation need our help today more than ever.
We’re doing just about all we can do to stop the dam from bursting. But, without the resources we need, a wave of hunger and famine still threatens to sweep across the globe. And if it does, it will overwhelm nations and communities already weakened by years of conflict and instability."
*****
"As COVID-19 pushed countries everywhere to lock down, the equivalent of 400 million full-time jobs have been destroyed, and remittances have collapsed. The impact has been felt hardest by the 2 billion people who work in the informal economy around the world - mainly in middle and low-income countries. Already only one day’s work away from going hungry, in other words living hand to mouth. You and I have food in the pantry in a lockdown. We have enough food for two or three weeks. These people don’t have that luxury. If they miss a day’s wages, they miss a day’s worth of food and their children suffer. They don’t have the money to buy their daily bread in those circumstances. This inevitably creates a risk of rising social tensions and instability.
It is critically important we balance SENSIBLE MEASURES (Sid's emphasis added) to contain the spread of the virus, with the need to keep borders open and supply chains going and trade flows moving. "
*****
"There is a grave danger that many more people will die from the broader economic and social consequences of COVID-19 than from the virus itself, especially in Africa. And the last thing we need is to have the cure be worse than the disease itself."
*****
Again....please, don't miss the forest for the trees.
news.un.org/en/story/2020/07/1068261
www.wfp.org/news/wfp-chief-warns-grave-dangers-economic-impact-coronavirus-millions-are-pushed-further-hunger
/unglobalcompact.org/take-action/20th-anniversary-campaign/covid-related%20hunger-could-kill-more-people-than-the-virus
--107.216.xxx.xxx |
OT: Lockdown response (by Barb [MO]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2020 5:03 PM Message:
My sister works in "human rights/human misery/etc". She has worked for Save the Children, Oxfam, the Ford Foundation and now works for the UN. At one time, she was handing out and administering microgrants to cottage industries.
She HATES the hand-outs. She believes in Hand-UPs. She said years ago that every time the Americans come into community she has been working in, they want to establish a food pantry, clothing closet, etc, and do hand outs.
One of the orgs she REALLY likes and has worked with extensively is The Heifer Project. She LOVES working with them, because they offer an animal, but you have to then pay it back or forward. They don't just give a hand out.
Sometimes a handout is needed, like after a natural disaster. Flooding, hurricanes, earthquakes - she has had to charter helicopters to drop in supplies more than once, but it is short term relief.
She works to fight child prostitution, by helping the families learn the skills needed in today's world. By bringing in the resources to grow the grains that are right for the soil, or to refurbish the soil. She works to remind people of the historic diet that the land can support, rather than Frito-Lay and Coca-Cola.
The large organizations do know what they are doing. I'm not familiar with the one Sid mentioned, but we are on the cusp of needing help in many parts of the US.
Heifer International has worked in many parts of the US, as well as other places. Appalachia has gotten a lot of help from Heifer International, as have communities in Arkansas.
The biggest challenge I see is the people who still don't take it seriously, though. --67.43.xxx.xxx |
OT: Lockdown response (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2020 5:12 PM Message:
I like what Barb just mentioned.
We should give hand ups not hand outs.
We should give people the skills and knowledge needed to help themselves. --73.120.xx.xxx |
OT: Lockdown response (by Allym [NJ]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2020 5:21 PM Message:
Child Fund saves children all over by giving them education and helps their village get water and other perks. I sponsor a child in Bangalore, India and her whole family benefits. I send a little extra money above the required. Once a month they send a bill or a contributor can give a credit card number. I don't believe anyone's numbers for anything anymore after seeing this election tinkering. An Hispanic fence guy working at my home for a company said that in his country he could just pick fruit off a tree when he is hungry. If you are worried about worldwide hunger then support one of those charities. I don't like the Heifer Project and will not finance subjecting animals to primitive conditions. Hunter/gatherers are not farmers and I fear for the suffering of those animals. --71.104.xx.xxx |
OT: Lockdown response (by Sisco [MO]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2020 6:59 PM Message:
One of the sure fire tip offs that the propaganda machine was driving The 1st round of C19 shutdowns was the strict prohibition on comparison in order to gain context: C19 vs Flu, C19 vs cold, C19 vs auto accidents, ect.
Sid, the stats that you bring up should be at the forefront of all our minds, but that discussion is not permitted.
Here is reality: there are no solutions, only tradeoffs.
Guv will soon be making vaccinations mandatory, and with it the great reset will be implemented to eliminate adherence to US Constitution, Private property, Self-Determination.
This is an attempt at worldwide governance. --67.43.xxx.xxx |
OT: Lockdown response (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2020 7:05 PM Message:
Sisco, you can read more about the idea behind that by reading the Rockefeller Foundations: Operation Lockstep.
--70.44.xxx.xx |
OT: Lockdown response (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2020 7:07 PM Message:
And Sisco, were not wrong, were just outvoted. Or maybe out-herded. --70.44.xxx.xx |
OT: Lockdown response (by Allym [NJ]) Posted on: Dec 3, 2020 12:39 PM Message:
One problem with the long term effects of covid is that the B administration, if they slither in, wants Medicare for All and will stop medical treatment for people over age 75 to make room for others. They hired Ezekial Emanuel brother of ballet dancer former mayor of Chicago, Rahm, as covid czar. He is an "ethicist" who believes that people over age 75 lack creativity and usefulness and should not receive treatment. Recent insurance commercials I have seen show that the average person gives $78,000 contribution to Medicare over their work life. Something similar happened to me when I had cancer in 2014, B.O. had removed 70 million dollars from Medicare to prop up Ocare. I was told I could use a PET scan but that Medicare was not paying for those at the time. They are now. My tenant just got one. They just send doctors a letter saying they, Medicare, will not pay for this or that and the doctor doesn't offer it because he or she will not be paid. It's very simple and no one knows and it doesn't get press coverage. --71.104.xx.xxx |
OT: Lockdown response (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Dec 3, 2020 2:37 PM Message:
Nobody is going hungry in America, let alone starving to death. So, are you suggesting I package up my leftover dinner and mail it to a hungry family in Africa? My mother used to site the starving children in China, but I think that China has it under control
Kids might be starving in North Korea but they won't accept my package of leftover dinner biscuits there.
When I was living in Britain, there were lots of TV ads asking for money for the starving children living in garbage dumps in Africa where drought and war destroyed all of the crops and everyone was starving.
So, there was a dinner guest who had just come home from the famine ravaged country under discussions and we were all full of sympathy and how awful it must have been to live through that.
Oh, no, he said. No one is starving. There is no food shortage. The markets are stacked full of fresh fruit and vegetables. Meat and grain are available in abundance. He never saw any hungry kids and couldn't even figure out where the photos of starving children might have come from.
Just because "charities" raising money are telling you that people are starving, it does not mean that there are actually people who are starving.
I call BS that 300 million additional people will starve this year. --76.178.xx.xx |
OT: Lockdown response (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Posted on: Dec 3, 2020 5:36 PM Message:
if Ezekial Emanuel thinks anyone over 75 is useless, I wonder how he feels about 3rd or 4th generation welfare recipients who haven't worked a day in 3 or 4 generations? --108.69.xxx.xxx |
OT: Lockdown response (by Small potatoes [NY]) Posted on: Dec 4, 2020 1:15 AM Message:
I think the macro discussion of covid death rates compared to non covid normal times is misguided. Lock downs and similar restrictions are put in place to relieve and prevent stress on the local hospital system. If you look at NY which took a big hit economically from shutting down at the beginning, it worked to reduce covid mortality. Now your can argue that it was over implemented, and the govnr has recalibrated by making hot pockets restricted instead. NY has a lower covid rate than most of the country now, and will be in a better position once the vaccine is distributed.
I would argue that preventable deaths could have been avoided if federal funds were made available to hospitals to make up for lost elective surgery revenue. They were not supported and as a result had to lay off medical staff. I find the lack of federal leadership on this issue a travesty. --172.58.xxx.xxx |
OT: Lockdown response (by Pmh [TX]) Posted on: Dec 4, 2020 6:03 PM Message:
Brad: that sneeze story is old C20....now when china sneezes and tells us 5 mos later they sneezed then the US & the rest of the world gets covid. --72.180.xx.xxx |
OT: Lockdown response (by Pmh [TX]) Posted on: Dec 4, 2020 6:21 PM Message:
Oregon. you are just an idiot. --72.180.xx.xxx |
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