This isn’t my tenant, it is somebody else’s. The tenant’s ESA dog had puppies. It was no accident, they bred the dog. That part probably doesn’t really matter. I never really thought about it, but I’m guessing that ESAs don’t have to be fixed. The puppies have to stay with the mother dog for a little while so there’s not much that can be done about that. Now there are 6 puppies peeing all over the hardwood. It also appears that they don’t intend to sell them all and will have another ESA . I wonder if the tenant can get more money for them if the market them as “ESA puppies”.

One of the requirements should be spayed or neutered.

I like NE's idea.

You can't require ESAs to be spayed or neutered -- that requirement would be illegal.

However, I disagree with "The puppies have to stay with the mother dog for a little while so there’s not much that can be done about that." That's garbage. There is no requirement that the puppies need to stay in the unit. If they need to stay with the mother (ESA), then the tenant can find a temporary home for them all until the puppies are weaned.

We sometimes have to accept ESAs. But we don't have to put up with crap like this.

- John...

Because I allow dogs, it is in my lease that dog breeding and puppies are not allowed. I would file for eviction. As far as I know, the courts have never decided that an emotional support litter of puppies is a human right for the disabled and fake disabled.

NE, it is not possible to keep them out. If the cheaters are honest enough to declare the ESA before you rent to them, you can probably find a way to keep them out, but tenants have a very efficient grapevine and it doesn't take them long to learn they can keep quiet about their pet and then bring it in after they have moved in. I see tenants giving that sort of advice, about how to work around the laws and rules, all the time online.

Don't forget that NE's plan with most things seems to be "ignore the law and do whatever the heck you want."

People here should start ignoring his advice when it comes to the law, IMO. He just keeps repeating the same thing: "No one can tell me what to do! I just ignore it and do whatever I want! You should too! MUH FREEEEDDOOOOMMMSSS!!!"

;)

- John...

Every time I have had someone with an ESA apply, I have found other, 100% legit reasons to deny their application that have nothing to do with the ESA itself. So like NE hints, there are usually 100% legit ways to avoid this problem up front.

But then we have the ones who bring them in AFTER they move in... only had that happen to me once. No worries: she did the ETF and bought out her lease after 3 months. Had there been any damages, etc, I would have evicted on those grounds: not the ESA itself.

Here, to put it simply: follow the law to screen the ESA properly is good legal advice. Keeping them out to begin with so you don't have to deal with that style of tenant is good business advice.

I agree, but there is a big difference between people giving actually ADVICE on HOW to do something -- and someone just going "Don't let ESA tenants in to begin with. Problem solved."

In a similar warning to newbies: There is a lot of business advice on this forum from people that tend to ignore the law most of the time. If you apply a lot of what they advise to do, you may be out of business because of a lawsuit.

NE doesn't seem to understand that one can be a "business person" AND actually follow the law. The idea that those trying to help people by explaining the legal issues behind bad advice are "anti-business people" is garbage.

- John...

Newbies, you need to understand something about laws and cyclical fears like the ESA stuff. These things come and go, ESA's, lead fear, mold fear, asbestos fear, yadda yadda yadda.

A few years ago, EVERYBODY was freaking out over RRP. Now you hardly ever hear about it.

Laws are guidelines, nothing more. It's tough for some people to think outside those lines because they are dependent upon being told what to do.

Me? I absolutely love pushing boundaries! That's part of the fun of this whole thing.

Just like the CDC moratorium, EVERYBODY was searching for loopholes and doing so ASAP!

Laws being basically nothing more than guidelines, you need to become proficient in knowing which ones you can bend to your benefit, ones you MUST follow and which ones you can use to clean yourself up in the bathroom with.

ESA nonsense is campfire tinder. It's bad for my business.

Being able to evict asap for non payment of rent is a law that is a holy grail. Therefore, it is a law that is GOOD for my business.

I find how to maximize one and totally work around another.

I don't mind going "by the book" when I have the ability to continuously edit and change my interpretation of the book.

When a tenant got a dog that was also pregnant, I posted a 24 hour notice for inspection then returned the next day and documented the condition of the rental unit.

It had perfectly clean carpeting, flawless vinyl flooring in the kitchen. The window treatments covered the windows without any flaws. There were not scratches on the doors, baseboards or walls. The paint in the walls was in excellent condition.

Fast forward 3 months. The blinds were destroyed. The vinyl flooring had pee stains. All of the doors and baseboards had scratches and bite marks. The carpeting was destroyed.

Paulio: I very rarely suggest anyone go to a lawyer. I'm a big fan of doing things yourself when properly informed. When people come to this place looking for advice -- especially about things like ESAs where the law is confusing, at best -- I simply think it makes sense to try to inform them of what makes sense from a legal aspect. Not tell them to "just don't take people with ESAs -- problem solved!"

So, don't put words in my mouth. That isn't what I said AT ALL. And if you've been around for the last 10+ years to read what I've written about such things, you'd know that that is absolutely not what I tell people to do.

I fully support knowing the "tricks of the trade." And I really support this site SHARING those tricks. That's kinda my point with this -- NE wasn't sharing any "tricks of the trade." He was just basically telling people to ignore the law.

Telling people to ignore the law is not a "trick of the trade." Properly informing them and then giving advice on how to do things within the law would be great, of course -- but that isn't what was being done here.

- John...

Robert J: Wouldn't you have documented the perfect apartment before they moved in anyhow? I don't see why you'd need to go re-document it when they got a dog or you heard it was pregnant...

You should be doing that before the move in. It doesn't matter if they damage it because of a pregnant dog or because of their Square Dancing Club Meetings. Damage is damage. You document condition before they move in -- not after they are in there and you hear they got a pet.

- John...

You sound like a nut shouting "Fake news!" when, as usual, you don't give anything to support it at all!

Where is the "fake advice" in this thread exactly? (Besides you giving no actual, workable advice and just saying to basically ignore the law, but with no path to do so "safely")?

- John...

there are ways "around" the law and there is breaking the law.

I'm not fond (although I've got quite a few) of tenants with children - baby through high school.

NE: You say that you can "navigate these things without having to follow the law."

Why the heck is your GOAL to not follow the law? My point is that I can navigate these things WHILE following the law.

Shouldn't THAT be the goal here?

Especially when, as I said, we're often giving advice to newbies and those seeking help? You seem to be offering a way to do it "without having to follow the law." I think that is a bad plan.

We can agree to disagree if you want. I can do it while following the law. I don't see why you can't.

Also, my last reply was about "fake advice." You seem to want to shout that as happening, but then ignore a follow-up asking to point it out. I still don't see what the "fake advice" is here that you are complaining about.

- John...

Some laws don't need to be followed, because they are garbage. They deserve to be ignored or broken. There is a lot of fake advice on here all the time. Too much fake advice will lead to analysis paralysis. We're not going to agree to disagree or anything like that, and I don't care what you think about my advice being a bad plan.

Any forum contributor can come here and copy and paste all the legal-ize they can find and present it as fake expertise all they want. Anyone can do that with any subject matter.

What I do is take the subject as a whole and summarize it. ESA's for example, summarizing it, it is easier to project my business upwards by evaluating the topic and saying "that is a TAR PIT" and steering clear of it as much as I possible can.

"I think any “newbie” will benefit from seeing both ways of dealing with issues. Then they can decide what path they want to choose. Therefore it’s good to see both ways, and the pros and cons of each....."

I agree.

No one has been pasting "legal-ize" nor any fake advice.

And, NE, in this thread, you didn't take ANYTHING and "summarize" it. Again, you basically gave no "advice" on what to do. You just went "never let them in! Problem solved!"

I still maintain that is worthless to most readers here seeking advice. Sorry, but if there is any "fake advice" in here, it is from you since you don't actually offer anything than blanket statements about how you wouldn't allow this to happen because you just ignore the law. I don't see how "advice" can get any more "fake" than that.

As for allowing newbies to "see both sides", yes, I agree - except he isn't presenting any "side". He's just saying that he ignores the law and it works for him. That isn't "advice" for a newbie to "see both sides" of.

Yes, we all bend the laws sometimes. I get that and support it for bad laws too. We all know ESAs are abused by bad tenants often. I think we're all on the same page there. But to suggest that others are "copy and pasting legal-ize" (when that isn't happening) or that they are giving "fake advice" (when that isn't happening either and you've ignored several requests to point any out) is just wrong. It isn't happening.

- John...

To the newbie readers, when you worry too much that you'll make a mistake if you bend rules or ignore laws, you can land your business in tar pits.

Some people are so afraid that if they try to keep someone out of their units because they have an ESA or whatever other claim that comes along, that they will let them in in fear of making a mistake by keeping them out.

They are afraid of breaking the law, so they put themselves in a worse position. Then they will be back here in six months crying and asking questions on how to get these people out of their units! Happens all the time.

Identify the traps and avoid them if you can.

It seems to me that NE is taking a calculated risk by ignoring the law. Kind of like when JP Morgan Chase ignored money laundering laws recently and had to pay a huge fine. Except NE isn't hurting anyone by what he is doing, unlike Morgan.

The problem is the more units you have and you take NE's approach, the more chance of getting caught. One has to figure out if the fines and penalties are worse than putting up with the unauthorized animals.

@NE

@NE

I find my residents that have pets/ ESAs/ Comfort/ or service animals - actually stay longer than ones that do not.

The key is to screen the crap out of both the people and there belongings. ESAs are not so cut and dry in screening. So I use an outside source to help me out when I purchase renters insurance for the resident for the first year. It is not me making the call - nope......it is the evil insurance company

Pets are wonderful normally - if you get a responsible pet owner. If the ESA isn't responsible - call them on it. An onsite visit will give you a great indication of what you will be getting.

i stand corrected....you are quick!

I will not lease to anyone with an emotional issue that cannot walk on their own two feet and deal with life's issues.

I have been up to where NE lives.

NE,

Wish it was easier said then done. We have tried keeping them animals out, but they end up bringing them in after moving in without any consent which is not required. I like Paulio's ideas, month to month is the way to go.

I am still dealing with 3 ESA submitted to pet screening .com pending their paperworks for 2 weeks now. The first time they submitted improper documents, so they gave them 10 days to resubmit the proper documents after that they resubmitted the second time. Once again returned their documents because it was not proper. This is my first time trying out pet screening . com. Does anybody have experience with this site screening ESA??

It is ridiculous that they would wait or even give the tenants a chance to resubmit . They should have the proper documents the first time, not trying to recreate one to meet the proper guideline.

Getting a bit frustrated w ESA, seem like we can't run away from them even after getting a third party involved.

Been renting out since the second year I immigrated here back in “54 never had any problems with pets,all animals were always much cleaner than people................Charlie..........? ? ?....... yes. ,no. An bfuil Gaelic

Rats! Suckered again.

I like to check the TOP 10 list which sent me here.

Only to discover this thread has a high ranking because 2 people are arguing, not helping a LL with a question. Just arguing.

Wasting MY time and based on the number of posts spent A LOT of time trying to prove a point. Embarrassing and disappointing.

Not to worry, I value my time so I skipped down to the end.

Rents,

For what it’s worth I cannot find any ESA law requiring the LL to allow puppies. I would order the puppies out in 48 hours. There are plenty of people who will take them in, foster families for dogs. They will also help place the puppies when weaned.

If the res balks I would remind them of the fee in the lease, $350 per unauthorized animal x 6 puppies and this lease violation is grounds for emergency evtiction (present and active danger to the property)

Best of luck to your friend.