Undersized Septic?
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Undersized Septic? (by James [NC]) Oct 22, 2020 7:45 PM
       Undersized Septic? (by James [NC]) Oct 22, 2020 7:46 PM
       Undersized Septic? (by NE [PA]) Oct 22, 2020 7:49 PM
       Undersized Septic? (by James [NC]) Oct 22, 2020 8:02 PM
       Undersized Septic? (by NE [PA]) Oct 22, 2020 8:12 PM
       Undersized Septic? (by plenty [MO]) Oct 22, 2020 8:14 PM
       Undersized Septic? (by NE [PA]) Oct 22, 2020 8:16 PM
       Undersized Septic? (by James [NC]) Oct 22, 2020 8:23 PM
       Undersized Septic? (by James [NC]) Oct 22, 2020 8:29 PM
       Undersized Septic? (by gevans [SC]) Oct 22, 2020 8:36 PM
       Undersized Septic? (by NE [PA]) Oct 22, 2020 8:44 PM
       Undersized Septic? (by James [NC]) Oct 22, 2020 8:44 PM
       Undersized Septic? (by Ken [NY]) Oct 22, 2020 8:45 PM
       Undersized Septic? (by James [NC]) Oct 22, 2020 10:13 PM
       Undersized Septic? (by Ken [NY]) Oct 22, 2020 11:03 PM
       Undersized Septic? (by Robert J [CA]) Oct 23, 2020 2:39 AM
       Undersized Septic? (by plenty [MO]) Oct 23, 2020 7:26 AM
       Undersized Septic? (by plenty [MO]) Oct 23, 2020 7:31 AM
       Undersized Septic? (by PG [SC]) Oct 23, 2020 7:51 AM
       Undersized Septic? (by NE [PA]) Oct 23, 2020 7:53 AM
       Undersized Septic? (by Bonanza [NC]) Oct 23, 2020 8:09 AM
       Undersized Septic? (by NE [PA]) Oct 23, 2020 8:22 AM
       Undersized Septic? (by myob [GA]) Oct 23, 2020 8:24 AM
       Undersized Septic? (by WMH [NC]) Oct 23, 2020 8:59 AM
       Undersized Septic? (by Bonanza [NC]) Oct 23, 2020 9:58 AM
       Undersized Septic? (by NE [PA]) Oct 23, 2020 10:01 AM
       Undersized Septic? (by James [NC]) Oct 23, 2020 11:35 AM
       Undersized Septic? (by WMH [NC]) Oct 23, 2020 11:38 AM
       Undersized Septic? (by plenty [MO]) Oct 23, 2020 12:03 PM
       Undersized Septic? (by LindaJ [NY]) Oct 23, 2020 12:49 PM
       Undersized Septic? (by Bonanza [NC]) Oct 23, 2020 2:44 PM
       Undersized Septic? (by Ken [NY]) Oct 23, 2020 3:08 PM
       Undersized Septic? (by James [NC]) Oct 23, 2020 4:37 PM
       Undersized Septic? (by gevans [SC]) Oct 23, 2020 8:41 PM
       Undersized Septic? (by LindaJ [NY]) Oct 24, 2020 10:09 AM


Undersized Septic? (by James [NC]) Posted on: Oct 22, 2020 7:45 PM
Message:

Hi all,

I am under contract on a 5 bed/4 bath home built in 1995. During the inspection, I found out it is a 1,000 gal septic tank. There has only been 2-3 people living there for the last 10+ years and they have “had no problems”. From what I have read, 1,000 gal should be for 3 bedrooms or less. I will have 5 people there constantly, which I think would call for a 1,500 gal tank. Should I be concerned? If so, would I need to replace the tank and the drain field or just the tank? Can I somehow leave the original tank and add a second 1,000 gal tank to add capacity? --208.104.xxx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by James [NC]) Posted on: Oct 22, 2020 7:46 PM
Message:

Just for added context, the home was originally a 3 bed and they added an addition on, but did not apparently adjust the septic. --208.104.xxx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 22, 2020 7:49 PM
Message:

Your drainfield is more of a concern than your tank ultimately.

The square footage on the drainfield is what's going to take all your black water. Built in 1995, there's a good chance that it's up to code still. It's no big deal to upgrade your tank, but it's a bigger deal to upgrade your drainfield.

What are you buying a 5 bedroom for? --70.44.xxx.xx




Undersized Septic? (by James [NC]) Posted on: Oct 22, 2020 8:02 PM
Message:

NE: thanks. They have it rated at 360gal per day max. The field is 300’ long, 3’ wide, 4’ max depth, with 14” stone depth (according to the permit I was able to dig up). Think I need to do anything on that front?

I typically dont buy more than 3 bedrooms, but I am trying something a bit new on this one. It is a SFH that I am going to split into a tri-plex of sorts. It has a garage apartment that will become a 1/1. The main floor of main house is a 3/3 and try and rent it by the room - each room with a private bath. If that fails, I will rent it as a 3/3 altogether. Finally, I am going to add a full bath to the walk out basement which has a private entrance and use it for AirBnB. --208.104.xxx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 22, 2020 8:12 PM
Message:

Septic systems are built based on how many bedrooms the house has. I know myself, if I bought a five bedroom house that was built in 1995 and the septic was built in 1995, I wouldn't worry about it. I can't tell you what to do. Maybe you can contact the SEO for your area and see what they know about it. They may have records. Also, definitely make sure with the township that you can split it up into a multi unit before you purchase it.

So technically, you are not adding any bedrooms, so the septic system should be sufficient. --70.44.xxx.xx




Undersized Septic? (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Oct 22, 2020 8:14 PM
Message:

if there is no laundry there it might work, my guess is you are looking at a new septic system and it will be over taxed in usage and you'll have wet yard.

--99.203.xx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 22, 2020 8:16 PM
Message:

The laundry is a maybe, because if it was built based on the # of bedrooms, the tank and drain field should be sufficient. That's what you need to verify. Is the system sufficient for the number of bedrooms. Because it doesn't matter if you have the whole house rented as one or split up into two, three, four units. It's still the same number of bedrooms. --70.44.xxx.xx




Undersized Septic? (by James [NC]) Posted on: Oct 22, 2020 8:23 PM
Message:

Thanks for the replies. There are 2 sets of w/d currently on the property. It was built as a 3 bedroom in 1995. They added 2 bedrooms in 2003, but made no changes to the septic. The addition looks to be permitted, but I am going to call the county and ask about septic sizing. --208.104.xxx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by James [NC]) Posted on: Oct 22, 2020 8:29 PM
Message:

@NE, no worry on the splitting part. I only shared that detail because you asked why I would buy a 5bed. For the purpose of my question, I agree it makes no difference how it is split. I just did some quick googling and it looks like the average person uses between 80 and 100 gals a day. That would put 5 people at between 400 and 500 gals a day, well above the 360gal the permit states. If I was to need a larger drain field, can the existing one be extended “easily” or does it require digging up the field that is already there? --208.104.xxx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by gevans [SC]) Posted on: Oct 22, 2020 8:36 PM
Message:

As long as you have extra yard space that perks, you can add a SEPARATE tank and field lines without touching the original. This may be cheaper and preferable.

They base the sizing on number of bedrooms, but if you are going to operate a B&B with occupants in every bedroom, you will be using WAY more water than the original design. Sheets, towels, etc. will be washed more often.

I know what I would do, but I won't say that on a public forum. LOL --69.80.xx.xx




Undersized Septic? (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 22, 2020 8:44 PM
Message:

I'll say it Gevans! Haha. I'd go for it with a back up plan if I couldn't accomplish my original goal or put an extra one in on a weekend if I needed it. --70.44.xxx.xx




Undersized Septic? (by James [NC]) Posted on: Oct 22, 2020 8:44 PM
Message:

Gevans,

Oh boy, now I am curious! Do you have a forum appropriate version you can post? I would only consider 1 room to be a B&B and I was thinking if I get 20% occupancy the water usage might actually be less than a full timer. The 3/3 that I am going to try and rent individually will be to longer term tenants - in theory. It is on several acres, so in terms of adding a new tank/field, it is possible. Would I basically be diverting the drainage from a few of the bathrooms and sending that to the new system or would I be daisy chaining the old to the new in some way? --208.104.xxx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Oct 22, 2020 8:45 PM
Message:

You could always put 1 unit on a new system and the washers could go into a big hole dug and filled with stones --72.231.xxx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by James [NC]) Posted on: Oct 22, 2020 10:13 PM
Message:

@Ken, is that a thing? How deep/big of a hole would you generally need? --208.104.xxx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Oct 22, 2020 11:03 PM
Message:

James it is called a drywell,not legal in some areas but perfectly legal in other areas,it will help to keep a lot of water out of the septic lines --72.231.xxx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Oct 23, 2020 2:39 AM
Message:

I am a plumber, landlord, owner and investor. One problem is people adding square footage and therefore more residents living with an undersized septic system. Then mistakes happen. Someone flushes a "no-no" down the john and leading to blockages in the drainfield.

It's easy to drain septic tanks, A & B and remove "stuff", but access to the distribution box and then drain field lines can be a difficult task.

In one case I fist tried an aerator trying to break up any clogs, nope didn't work. Then I dug down to expose the discharge from the septic tank and then followed the line to the distribution box. Opened that up and then ran my camera down the drain field pipes. Found all sorts of treasures like cloths, paper goods and other floating objects that left the septic tank and make it's way down into the field drain lines.

SO instead of my customer spending $20,000 on a new properly sized system for the larger home, we:

a) vacuumed out the drain field lines, cleaned the distribution box and made a vertical access pipe to the surface AND installed a Septic Filter before the tanks.

This and everything else ran a couple grand....

Then we installed a "gray" water well and had the laundry drain into that and the utility sink.

--47.155.xx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Oct 23, 2020 7:26 AM
Message:

I lived with myself and 2 kids in one of my rentals on septic and we managed not to over load the failing sysytem. But i managed our water flowing into it. When it was rainy we didn't do laundry. Some baths at night, some morning. Dishwasher ran midday. After we moved out a single lady moved in, one person, total wetland in the yard, she was renting didnt care about water managing to stretch the life, she was just living her life. The tank failed in 2 months! She would not be trained to live there. Away with her, new system and no more issues. I currently will not buy any property with or on septic for rentals. Renters use the property not care for it. Perhaps your county will advise you on permits and restrictions on how to correct the issue. I like the add another tank, what are the land restrictions on that, in my county we need acres of land nowadays for septic. Pethaps ad additional tank and leech field would work? The county should be your partner in the solution. Hopeful the property comes with done acres or the best would be to hook on to public sewers if near by. --172.58.xx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Oct 23, 2020 7:31 AM
Message:

Any renter will use more water and short terms will use it faster. It's the frequency there is no thought given to the septic especially if they come from living in areas with public sewers. No forethought is given. The system will not handle the flood of usage. Good that you are exploring options now! --172.58.xx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by PG [SC]) Posted on: Oct 23, 2020 7:51 AM
Message:

I have had 3 houses with septic systems.

NE is correct it is the Drain field and how it was installed.

You may consider pumping the tank - remove all material - on a 3 to 5 year frequency.

You may want to re read KEN NY post. --99.197.xxx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 23, 2020 7:53 AM
Message:

I have one property with a dry well for the washer and dryer. Big boulders in the ground with a pipe that just drops into there. I also have a gray water tank that I put into another property that takes the kitchen sink, bathroom vanity and shower. It's a 55 gallon drum with a bunch of holes drilled in it and it has an outlet that goes to about a 50 foot trench full of gravel. These are frowned upon, but if you plan on holding the property for a number of years, sometimes you just do what you have to do. --70.44.xxx.xx




Undersized Septic? (by Bonanza [NC]) Posted on: Oct 23, 2020 8:09 AM
Message:

James in NC - - - I hope that house was advertised as a 3 bedroom home. If it was listed by a Realtor then they can NOT advertise it as a 5 bedroom house if it only has a 3 bed septic.

I don't know how you found this place (MLS or FSBO) but it could help you in the negotiations. If you sell it some day you can only market it as a 3 bed unless the septic is upgraded with permits pulled. It may not matter for what you are planning on doing but then again it may.

It is not a 5 bedroom house as far as the real estate buy/sell world is concerned. It is a 3 bed house.

--65.188.xxx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 23, 2020 8:22 AM
Message:

Bonanza, care to explain why? Most every day buyers and most two bit realtors are not going to know that piece of information.

If proper permits were pulled and the extra two bedrooms were built to code, why would it not be a five bedroom. Chances are the assessment at the courthouse changed it to a five bedroom. --70.44.xxx.xx




Undersized Septic? (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Oct 23, 2020 8:24 AM
Message:

Many states will not allow excavation of an existing field.The 1K tank may be an issue- should really be 1500 gal. The field for a 4BR is 700 ft min. here. When our system failed-- the tank was still good the field was re-done to the other side of our yard and was expanded to 700+ feet. Pretty easy to do for a good septic person. All in cost was 6500.00.

With your tank size-- if at all possible put in a dry well for your dishwasher and washing machine. Those two applicances have only GRAY water. A dry well (i put in many while I lived on LI NY) is a hole that a 55 gal drum can fit into. Dig your hole and put plenty of crush and run-- aka blue stone. Punchture the bottom of the barrel and slice the side wall of the drum in 20 places. Put the drum in the ground and back fill with blue stone. Run your dishwasher and washing machine drain in to the top. Back fill. If your neighbors have water wells-- do NOT put your dry well within 100 ft of their well points. --99.103.xxx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Oct 23, 2020 8:59 AM
Message:

NE, in my county all permits start with health department septic inspection. Usually it's just a formality but if you are adding bedrooms, they will require you to update the septic. You can add ten bathrooms without a care, but adding bedrooms is a big deal. So it's possible to build an addition without upgrading septic if you don't call it extra bedrooms. I'd like to see exactly what that addition permit was for - I bet you a dollar they didn't say they were adding bedrooms.

James, there is nothing worse than ongoing septic issues. I've lived it, some of our renters have lived it. We've had to deal with it at 5 different houses at least. All nightmares until fixed, then no issues. You need to upgrade that tiny system if you are going to do everything you are proposing to do. --50.82.xxx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by Bonanza [NC]) Posted on: Oct 23, 2020 9:58 AM
Message:

bulletins.ncrec.gov/septic-permits-a-refresher/

Sort version is:

Advertising – When a septic system permit is available and indicates a capacity of three bedrooms, the broker may only advertise the property as a three bedroom home. To knowingly advertise more bedrooms than permitted would be a willful misrepresentation. --65.188.xxx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 23, 2020 10:01 AM
Message:

If James can uncover these issues, he may be able to negotiate a steal. --70.44.xxx.xx




Undersized Septic? (by James [NC]) Posted on: Oct 23, 2020 11:35 AM
Message:

@All: Thanks for the continued thoughts. I often forget to clarify, although I live in NC, this property is 1 minute from the NC border in SC. Also, update. I called the permitting office. They said they only have record of it being a 3 bedroom. He was not sure what the standard was back in early 2000, but today, he said they would require 250gal per bedroom for the tank and probably another 200-250ft of drain lines depending on the soil. I am going to get a septic company out there for a specific cost; but does anyone have a general sense for what we would be talking? Is this a $5k issue or a $20K issue?

@Bonanza: Do you happen to have anything like that for SC? --208.104.xxx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Oct 23, 2020 11:38 AM
Message:

$5-6k not $20k. If someone quotes $20, run. --50.82.xxx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Oct 23, 2020 12:03 PM
Message:

$20k issue --99.203.xx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by LindaJ [NY]) Posted on: Oct 23, 2020 12:49 PM
Message:

The problem we have in our area, is that design and requirements have changed drastically over the years. What was acceptable 20 years ago is not the standard for a new system.

If your lot allows, I would consider putting in a new system for a unit or two. If you don't do a weekend install and get permits etc, you will probably need to perc test the area and get an approved design. Weekend install, just do the best you can.

Look into an infiltrator system. They are not accepted in some places but they can drastically reduce the actual length of the drain field. And yes the drain field is probably more important than the tank. Pumping the tank on a regular basis 2 - 4 years depending on how much usage is also very important. You don't want those solids to build up to the point they are pushed into the drain field and clog that. --108.4.xxx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by Bonanza [NC]) Posted on: Oct 23, 2020 2:44 PM
Message:

James, I don't know anything about how SC does things. call a SC Realtor or SC lawyer or both. --65.188.xxx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Oct 23, 2020 3:08 PM
Message:

I can get one done for $5000-$6000 you want to call someone who operates his equipment himself,that will be your best deal,not a big company with salesman and operators etc --72.231.xxx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by James [NC]) Posted on: Oct 23, 2020 4:37 PM
Message:

@All, thanks again for helping me navigate this!

Just an update, I’ve got an inspection scheduled for early next week. I’ve spoken to a few local companies and I have gotten a few different high level options (will know more specifics next week). Generally, they have all agreed that there needs to be more drain lines, but they have given two ideas for the tank.

Option 1: add a second 1000gal tank that attaches to the first 1000gal tank (as a sort of overflow).

Option 2: replace the 1000gal with a single 1500gal tank. Optionally, they said they could crush, bury, and abandon the old tank or I could pay extra to have them haul away the old one.

I’m thinking a single 1500 with the old removed might be best, as I wouldn’t have buried trash in the yard and I would have only 1 tank to maintain. Thoughts? --208.104.xxx.xxx




Undersized Septic? (by gevans [SC]) Posted on: Oct 23, 2020 8:41 PM
Message:

Depending on where you are in SC...

Some owners in our area rent a backhoe and install an additional drain field. Tank size is not the problem; it's the drain field capacity.

SCDHEC requires a permitted operator to install tanks and drain fields. Some people ignore that.

The half clamshell black plastic drain field pipes are simple to install and require no gravel. Just dig a level hole 5 or 6 feet deep and tie to the existing distribution box. Problem solved.

In your case, I would consider a separate tank, distribution box, and drain field instead of adding to a single one.

Cost for half clamshell drain pipe is about 30 for a 4 foot section. You should install no less than 100 feet. You will already have the equipment, and the extra pipe is cheap. 100 feet of 3 foot clamshell is equal to 300 feet of standard 4" drain pipe.

--69.80.xx.xx




Undersized Septic? (by LindaJ [NY]) Posted on: Oct 24, 2020 10:09 AM
Message:

What are the cost difference for tank removal option? I think any of the options would work, I would go with the cheapest, quickest and least amount of disturbance to the area.

The half clamshell that gevans suggests is the infiltrator system. This system allows you to have shorter fields and disturb less area and still handle the capacity. Although not approved for new systems in our area, almost everyone replacing a field uses them here. --108.4.xxx.xxx





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