Hey all,

Would love your collective wisdom on 3 questions at the bottom.

Last year 2 tenants lived in my home. By the time they left they owed several thousand above and beyond the SD. Part of this was damage, but a large chunk of it was from finding out they had 2 unauthorized dogs. They had 2 dogs that were approved to be there; but snuck another 2 in. I charge a nominal monthly fee for dogs, but my lease is very clear, if I find out there were unauthorized dogs at the property for any time, I assume they were there from the beginning of the lease. To discourage them from just taking their chances and lying (since the outcome would be the same), I then 3x the back charge to make it a steep penalty for lying and getting caught. We’ll turns out, they were letting the dogs disturb the neighbor and he complained to me about the “4” dogs. I talked to the tenants and they said “nope, only 2 dogs”. Since it was he said she said, I told the neighbor I would need a picture of the dogs for proof. He happily compiled by taking a picture from his back porch that looked over to the tenants unfenced back yard (20ft away). The picture clearly shows both of my tenants and the dogs.

After they moved out, I send the demand letter for $3k which included damages and the back pet rent with the photo for proof. I INCLUDED AN ACKNOWLEDGEMENT FORM for them to sign and agree to the amount owed which gave them 2 months to pay or told them I would file. Needless to say, they were not happy the were caught, but They sent back the signed acknowledgement and tenant 1 paid $1k right away and said tenant 2 would pay the rest because it was their contribution. The 2 months came and went and I never got the remaining $2k. I went to the court to file and literally as I was seconds away from submitting the paperwork, tenant 2 contacted me and paid a partial payment over the phone. He explained that he didn’t have all of the money owed, but would payment “whatever he could spare” every paycheck every two weeks. I told him I would be ok with him paying me something as long as he paid every 2 weeks and we kicked around $300 as a good number. Well, I received, $300 two paychecks in a row, then $150, then nothing including no communication that there would be no payment this week. I reached out and he said he had unexpected expenses this paycheck. I have told him that I let him pick the payment amount, but that he needs to send no less than $100 every paycheck (every 2 weeks), but that $200 is due for this upcoming paycheck, since he skipped the last one. He responded with a long nasty email about being greedy and now I stalked him with the photos. Anyway, you are up to speed and I have a few questions for you all.

1) I did not take photos of them, the neighbor did. I disagree that it is stalking (or anything wrong), but even if it was, it was the neighbor that did it. They were outside in a wide open backyard and the neighbor was on his own back porch. Thoughts?

2) How likely is my 3x back pet fee to hold up? My thinking is that I would not be even suing for the SD related items at this point. They signed a payment plan that said they would pay $3k by August. They are in breach of that agreement, so the SD isn’t even what we are going after. Thoughts?

Ken,

Thanks for the thoughts.

1) That was my thinking too, about the other guy. I’ve reached out to him a few times letting him know that he would be sued as well and the judgement would be for both of them. While this initially motivated him, he ended up speaking with his father - who happens to be a secretary at a law office. Apparently, after they both signed my 3k agreement, they then signed an agreement between themselves saying guy 1 would pay 1k and guy 2 would pay 2k. The advice his father Gave him was “don’t worry about it, we will just counter sue guy 2 and it wont effect you”. Sadly, this seems like bad advice for many reasons, but maybe I am missing something?

2) Guy 1 has said guy 2 has blocked his communications.

3) If I take it to court, I am thinking I wouldn't present the lease or even the SD accounting letter. The fact that they signed the payment plan should hopefully stand on its own.

OK so #1 (on the second post) I would say is NOT your problem ... that is the TENANT problem. YOU have the agreement with BOTH ... THEY EACH have an agreement amongst themselves. This holds true when there are two (or more) roommates that are not "married" ... I sometimes will state "you may want to have an agreement drawn up amongst yourselves that say "I pay $500 and you pay $500, or I pay the Utilities and $200 rent and you pay $700, etc). BUT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME ... I want the $1k (or whatever the rent is) in whole ... period. Johnny paying $700 and Jimmy NOT paying the $300 means that Johnny and Jimmy are on the hook with me for $300 ... NOT JUST JIMMY.

2. Again, NOT your problem.

3. AGreed BUT you may want to bring ALL of the paperwork with you ... always do in case the judge wants to see it

4. I took it as though it meant keep hammering them. Get what you want and can.

Stalking?

They lied.

I realize it's television but I've seen several times on the court tv shows where the judges (especially Milian) outright laugh at retroactive pet fees ... even when agreed to in the lease. I'd keep pushing for what you can get outside the courtroom for as long as you can.

@cjl: i agree. Everything is jointly and severally. Unfortunately, Guy 1 has been incorrectly advised that he can “counter sue” guy 2 during the case I have against both of them. His logic is that it will shift the debt to guy 2 And completely bypass guy 1. Gotta love tenant logic. The reality is, they can only counter sue me any suing of guy 2 by guy 1 would be a new case, after a judgement is already against guy 2 AND guy 1.

@Donna: I know, right? At this point, I have given them several chances to remedy without hurting their future. I am still the bad guy for their actions though. The funny thing is, the neighbor shared that his son is a friend of guy 2 and that guy 2 would always sneak the extra 2 dogs out just before my quarterly maintenance checks.

@nicole, thats what I am nervous about and why I had them sign the agreement acknowledging the debt. Hopefully that will supersede what the fees were for. I’ve seen Judy (lol, I know this is not real court) say in a few cases, “I would not have awarded you that, but they agreed to it, so I am enforcing what was agreed to”.

It doesn't have to be notarized ... they come up with a lot of "law things". He will be asked if it's his signature ... if he claims it is not then most likely the judge will ask for his ID with his signature on it and compare ... and/or some other document with his signature on it that he claimed is his signature.

The judge will then (most likely) state "Mr Guy2 ... I am going to remind you that you are in court in front of a judge and are under oath ... is this your signature?"

Don't get caught up in their stories ... I'd file and/or just keep pushing forward.

If you are "happy" with what you have and don't want to go to court but would like the money then just keep at it without going to court. If you want to take your chances at court then do it.

This story is such BS. Are tenants in NC that stu id? Are judges for LL's-- this is NC there is no garnishment.

So just on your say so-- they started paying?

No I don't believe it. The second you filed suit-- as a tenant i would have countered for 5 X's the amount you illegally witheld and take my chance.

I don't know enough about your state to know what a judge is likely to rule. However, my advice is that you learn what the laws are regarding debt collectors.

@myob: i was hoping you’d chime in. What part of my story do you not believe? You are correct, as I stated In my original post there is no garnishment in my state; however, judgements are still a thing. For tenants with high credit scores (my preferred group), the threat of a judgement hurting their credit, particularly if they are young, future home owners, is often enough to make them do the right thing. I do not believe I have illegally withheld any of their funds. Excluding the back pet fees, the amount of damage caused exceeded the originally held SD. You may argue that they do not owe the amount above and beyond the SD, but I sent them an itemization of charges and a form that they agreed to the charges and acknowledged that they owed the outstanding amount. Further acknowledging the amount owed, they have already sent $1,700 on top of the SD that was withheld.

@woodsmoke: That is a great point, thank you. At least from my perspective, I have been very gentle in trying to be paid. I am curious though, for those of you that have had to send an SD accounting letter that required additional payment from the former tenant, would you consider that debt collector territory, as subject to debt collecting laws?

James then I stand corrected. THERE are big idi ots in NC.

Money judgments must have the person SERVED. Not just "you owe me money".

Most, if they think of this in a legal setting would say your EXTORTING THEM.

@MYOB: Although I have been a LL for years, this is the first time that a tenant has left damages in excess of the SD. There have certainly been cases where I have had to ding the SD, but usually only a few hundred dollars. I have read many of your posts about collecting on tenants years down the line. Your recent post in this thread has me considering something that I had not considered though, so I am genuinely curious. When you find yourself in a scenario where the tenant has exceeded the SD, are you saying that you send the accounting to the tenant and then immediately file in court without giving them the opportunity to pay, if they agree?

Ken you have that wrong. You file and if you do it right you get the 25% collection fee and 15% interest on the debt. These few words make the difference:

Listen XYZ I want this off the books as soon as possible. Once we're paid we'll issue the satisfied letter to you and the court and this will all be behind you.

Of course it won't cause it's still in the court record-- just like any credit-- but they rarely know that.