Who's Left?
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Who's Left? (by Doogie [KS]) Oct 15, 2020 11:00 PM
       Who's Left? (by Laura [VA]) Oct 15, 2020 11:45 PM
       Who's Left? (by Hoosier [IN]) Oct 16, 2020 12:16 AM
       Who's Left? (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Oct 16, 2020 1:17 AM
       Who's Left? (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Oct 16, 2020 1:17 AM
       Who's Left? (by LisaFL [FL]) Oct 16, 2020 6:48 AM
       Who's Left? (by Steve [MA]) Oct 16, 2020 6:52 AM
       Who's Left? (by Roy [AL]) Oct 16, 2020 7:03 AM
       Who's Left? (by J [FL]) Oct 16, 2020 7:39 AM
       Who's Left? (by Still Learning [NH]) Oct 16, 2020 8:04 AM
       Who's Left? (by S i d [MO]) Oct 16, 2020 8:21 AM
       Who's Left? (by David [MI]) Oct 16, 2020 10:17 AM
       Who's Left? (by 6x6 [TN]) Oct 16, 2020 10:22 AM
       Who's Left? (by 6x6 [TN]) Oct 16, 2020 10:27 AM
       Who's Left? (by David [MI]) Oct 16, 2020 10:32 AM
       Who's Left? (by David [MI]) Oct 16, 2020 10:34 AM
       Who's Left? (by Allym [NJ]) Oct 16, 2020 10:35 AM
       Who's Left? (by Doogie [KS]) Oct 16, 2020 10:55 AM
       Who's Left? (by NE [PA]) Oct 16, 2020 11:02 AM
       Who's Left? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Oct 16, 2020 11:18 AM
       Who's Left? (by Robert J [CA]) Oct 16, 2020 11:20 AM
       Who's Left? (by Barb [MO]) Oct 16, 2020 2:44 PM
       Who's Left? (by plenty [MO]) Oct 16, 2020 2:45 PM
       Who's Left? (by GKARL [PA]) Oct 16, 2020 3:10 PM
       Who's Left? (by Hollis [MA]) Oct 16, 2020 3:30 PM
       Who's Left? (by RentsDue [MA]) Oct 16, 2020 3:56 PM
       Who's Left? (by Johnny B. [MA]) Oct 16, 2020 4:27 PM
       Who's Left? (by GKARL [PA]) Oct 16, 2020 4:50 PM
       Who's Left? (by Tonia [RI]) Oct 16, 2020 5:01 PM
       Who's Left? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Oct 17, 2020 9:55 AM
       Who's Left? (by WMH [NC]) Oct 17, 2020 1:47 PM
       Who's Left? (by Hollis [MA]) Oct 17, 2020 3:00 PM
       Who's Left? (by WMH [NC]) Oct 17, 2020 4:13 PM
       Who's Left? (by Still Learning [NH]) Oct 17, 2020 5:45 PM

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Who's Left? (by Doogie [KS]) Posted on: Oct 15, 2020 11:00 PM
Message:

With the eviction bans, late fee limitations, screening limitations, etc going on right now, who's considering getting out of the game? Or, who has got out of the game? If you're sticking around, what more needs to happen before you do call it quits? Why do you stick around? The market is hot right now (here anyway), is it possible to still make money by holding?

I'm just curious what everyone's thoughts are here. Curious if I can find some queues to look for in my state. We tend to be a red state, but we have a blue governor every now and then. Now happens to be one of those times. She isn't doing us any favors (IMO).

Anyway, just trying to get a pulse on the nationwide rental market. Are we really done and everything will go to government housing???

--68.102.xxx.xxx




Who's Left? (by Laura [VA]) Posted on: Oct 15, 2020 11:45 PM
Message:

I just sold my worst rental -a "C" property - and got a nice amount for it. It usually attracts lower-tier renters. It had just become vacant and I did not want to take a chance on getting a deadbeat. Decided to pass on the 1031 benefits and wait 6 to 8 months and then re-assess the market before investing in a another rental. My other properties are "A's and "B"s and have tenants with good jobs or retirement income, so I will hang on to those. --67.172.xxx.xxx




Who's Left? (by Hoosier [IN]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 12:16 AM
Message:

Not me, I'm staying in...for now. I think things will settle down within about 6 months...just need to manage through the difficult time.

If a lot of people do get out, you might find some good prices on properties. --99.92.xxx.xxx




Who's Left? (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 1:17 AM
Message:

Doogie,

Mine are all full with rents higher than I ever imagined. I donít picture a full price sale when rented. But maybe I should market them to turnkey investors.

I have a flip almost ready for market because itís the only vacant and itís very sellable -4 bed, 2.5 bath.

I always thought Iíd sell off and just be the bank for others.

BRAD

--73.102.xxx.xxx




Who's Left? (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 1:17 AM
Message:

Doogie,

Mine are all full with rents higher than I ever imagined. I donít picture a full price sale when rented. But maybe I should market them to turnkey investors.

I have a flip almost ready for market because itís the only vacant and itís very sellable -4 bed, 2.5 bath.

I always thought Iíd sell off and just be the bank for others.

BRAD

--73.102.xxx.xxx




Who's Left? (by LisaFL [FL]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 6:48 AM
Message:

I have been spoiled by having 95% excellent tenants. That being said maintenance and repairs needs are still more frequent than I care for- well not that bad, but a nuisance when you are trying to enjoy a second home out-of-state or travel anywhere.

So I decided three years ago to sell whenever anyone moved. I informed existing tenants that more often than not they would have to make arrangements to give access to the home for repairs related to electrical, AC, plumbing, roofing or appliances. Any other items would have to wait untiL I was in town to address them unless it was an emergency.

This month, while out of town I had to have a foundation stabilization company add some push-piers to a problem area but they worked with me from a distance. And we had a drain pipe in a block wall rust out and start leaking through the wall but my plumber is outstanding and now a tenant so I made sure he saved some pieces of the debris so I could color match the paint to finish the repair once Iím back.

Thus far Iíve sold 10 houses (roughly three per year). One is scheduled already to sell next year to a current occupant. All have sold for top dollar at the current market at the time they sold.

Our market is super hot for selling right now so Iím hoping something else opens up next year. And yes, my taxes have gone way up. Iím paying over $100,000 a year. That is the only downfall.

With our rights being taken away and restricted as they have been Iím happy to be downsizing. But thatís easy for me to say because I donít need the income anymore. --75.89.xxx.xxx




Who's Left? (by Steve [MA]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 6:52 AM
Message:

As difficult as being a LL in MA can be, especially during these extremely challenging times, I can't think of anywhere else to put the profits from property sales that will give me anywhere close to the returns I get from my rentals. For example last December I seriously considered accepting a $1.3 million offer for a 6 unit which I paid 48.5K for 40+ years ago. Once I factored in Uncle Sam undeserved take from the profits, I couldn't find anyplace to safely park the money that would yield what I make from owning it. To look after this property, deal with the tenants & local officials, handle the necessary paperwork requires about 4-6 hours per month of my time. Even though my time commitment hasn't changed much in years my weekly compensation has steadily risen. According to my 2019 tax returns, each week I pocketed over $1,300 (not including depreciation benefits) from this property. This property was destroyed by fire & completely rebuilt in 2015 with insurance funds. This rebuilding allowed me to restart reaping the benefits of some meaningful depreciation on this building all over again without having to recapture any of the previously used depreciation.

If I was just starting out, had some mortgages, didn't have systems in place to deal with running & maintaining my properties, decent subs, knowledge & ability to handle things or more importantly no longer had the desire to be a LL, I would definitely consider finding a way to profitably sell off my properties while the market was still at it's current peak.

--71.174.xxx.xx




Who's Left? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 7:03 AM
Message:

For reasons still unknown, some of my best years in this business happened after the RE market collapse in 2008. From 2008-2013, my tenant pool was at it best and I was able to buy fixer-uppers at dirt cheap prices. That all changed when the market improved in 2014.

There is an old saying that 'when the going gets tough, the tough go shopping'...and that is just what I did back then.

Will history repeat itself with the pandemic? --68.63.xxx.xxx




Who's Left? (by J [FL]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 7:39 AM
Message:

Not everyone is dropping out because people are still buying like crazy here in Florida. And not just owner occupants--tons of cash buyers. --72.188.xxx.xxx




Who's Left? (by Still Learning [NH]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 8:04 AM
Message:

Staying in. A Democratically controlled government concerns me with housing and our democratic candidate for governor got his start at NH legal aid so there is concern there but I am full, rents are high, residents are paying, vacancy rates are low, and my first building should be paid off by spring. All new buildings are high priced luxury which makes my clean and functional a needed price point. Not ready to get out yet. --73.17.xx.xxx




Who's Left? (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 8:21 AM
Message:

Staying put for now. As Steve[MA] said, there's not too many better alternatives. My state is pretty traditional and hasn't gone nuts yet, although we did have no evictions for a little while it wasn't due to a ban, the courthouse was shut down. Today we're back to business as usual, although having to content with the CDC's unconstitutional farce of a moratorium.

For now, I have a mix of residential and commercial. I like the higher cash on cash returns of residential, but that sector also has the most potential to be regulated since apparently the Govt believes land lords are evil scum who abuse poor ignorant renters so they have to regulate housing excessively to level the playing field. Commercial RE assumes that both parties are savvy enough to conduct themselves as responsible adults and we can basically figure out whatever works best for us, and if you don't pay you still get booted out of your space.

Nov 4th may change my mind. --107.216.xxx.xxx




Who's Left? (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 10:17 AM
Message:

main reason I"m sticking with rentals: very low visibility compared with other businesses. I don't have a website or an office, and only have a public profile when I have a vacancy. I only advertise on zillow, zumper and craigslist and while they know the address of the property, they don't know my name, phone or email. When I contact them , I can screen them without them knowing which property is mine.

Sure, many munis require rental permits/inspections, but those only inspect the PROPERTY, not you or your business. The IRS only cares about about your profits and deductions. No one audits the way you run your rentals or how you screen tenants.

--50.4.xxx.x




Who's Left? (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 10:22 AM
Message:

I would like to know this myself.

Sid, is commercial not struggling right now? --73.120.xx.xxx




Who's Left? (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 10:27 AM
Message:

David, how do the prospect tenants contact you if they don't have any of that information? --73.120.xx.xxx




Who's Left? (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 10:32 AM
Message:

6x6, they drive to the house and harass the neighbors (true story).

They send me an inquiry thru my zillow/zumper/craigslist ad with THEIR phone number. I call them at MY leisure on my burner phone.

--50.4.xxx.x




Who's Left? (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 10:34 AM
Message:

clarification: I first do court record searches using their names . If no red flags, THEN I call them at MY leisure on my burner phone. --50.4.xxx.x




Who's Left? (by Allym [NJ]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 10:35 AM
Message:

Of course we are not done and it will not go to govt. housing especially with the NY Post revelations. You have to go there to see the story due to censorship pretty much. I subscribed last night. It's all we have. --71.104.xx.xxx




Who's Left? (by Doogie [KS]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 10:55 AM
Message:

Thank you all for your replies! I agree with yall. I'm staying put as well. As Steve pointed out, I don't know where I would put the money. The returns are too good compared to the alternatives. I also agree with Roy. After the market crashed in 2008ish, it was really good business here. My area tends to lag by a couple years, so starting about 2010, it got really good.

Another reason it's hard for me to get out is the freedom this provides. I was forced into retirement at the ripe old age of 42. The company I was doing my day gig for had layoffs and I got caught in it. I interviewed for other positions, but found myself questioning what I was doing. After a few months, I realized that rentals provided more than enough income and I didn't need to work a W-2 job anymore. Once you get that taste of freedom, it's very hard to give up. Since then, I have acquired 3 more properties and paid 3 off. If I "work" 4 hours a day, it's a looooonggggg day now.

I'm currently in buying mode again. The problem is that prices are going up. I've looked at a few, made offers on a few and nothing is working. I'm hoping Roy is right and in the next year or two, prices will come down and I can expand again.

PS - I say I am semi-retired now. I'm probably as retired as I'm going to get. Once I got the real estate in my blood, I knew it would most likely never leave. As I grow older, I will probably downsize and shift stuff around. I'm not sure at this particular point in time I see myself without a few rentals....

--68.102.xxx.xxx




Who's Left? (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 11:02 AM
Message:

I've listed some but I don't want to jump ship entirely until I see what permenant insanity becomes law from all this hysteria.

I'm not looking for anymore rentals right now, that's for sure. Flips only for the foreseeable future. --70.44.xxx.xx




Who's Left? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 11:18 AM
Message:

I already did what I was going to do a couple of years ago. Progressives in Oregon were going more and more anti-landlord, so I sold everything and moved. I also greatly reduced the number of units I own.

There hasn't been an eviction moratorium here (and no more evictions than normal), until the federal level one.

If the socialists get into power and start to do more damage, I will sell out. (and give them all of my profits in income taxes, sigh.)

What happens in a conservative state where the progressives can't have their way, is that they sue from out of state to impose their programs. Boise would not allow the homeless to sleep on the sidewalks and there was a lawsuit filed back east and a federal judge ruled that Boise must allow the homeless to sleep on the sidewalks.

So being in a conservative state might not be enough to save landlords. --76.178.xx.xx




Who's Left? (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 11:20 AM
Message:

Because I started in the rental business at age 18 and have been doing this for so long, I road out the dips and climbs through 3 complete cycles. In 2005, 2006 and 2017 I sold off my worst properties -- Class "C" units and some single family homes who's locations became undesirable.

My current inventory is about as good as it can get. Good schools, in job related area's. Near shopping, transportation and so on. I also did major re-habs on my rentals. Spending more than the original purchase price in remodeling some 30 years later.

There isn't much out there I'd rather put my money into. I can always find something, but the "conversion" costs are too high, paying over 45% of the proceeds in taxes and fee's. So if I sold off Ten Million in Income Property to only net Six Million, a loss of 4 million in taxes/fee's, it will take a lifetime of investing to make up those "conversion" losses.

--47.155.xx.xxx




Who's Left? (by Barb [MO]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 2:44 PM
Message:

Staying in this game and building new ones!

In 2011 we built a new duplex.

In 2018 we built a new 8-plex (never again that big)

In 2020 we built a new duplex.

Our next project is a new 4-plx.

After that, we are concentrating on paying off debt - we have some older homes that are in a prime location and need to be paid off and torn down before I have to drop the rents and get problem tenants. Then, I'm going to the board of adjustment to ask for a variance (my lots are too small for their zoning) so that I can build a set of 6 new duplexes on the 6 lots that are already zoned R2. Already have the design in my head. 700 sq ft plus garages in back, and access through the back. Planning to tear down construction from before and immediately after WW2. Getting it done before I have to pay for new sewer lines is the plan. :) With a location only 1/2 mile from the university and a few blocks from the HS, the big park and right there, I'll be golden! --67.43.xxx.xxx




Who's Left? (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 2:45 PM
Message:

Like Sid I'm paying attention. We are in the Same state. If my rights start goin away, so sorry for those blue state's landlords, and my tenants are not paying. I will sell as they become vacant. Currently the plan is to rehab and sell to homeowners with agent listing. Keeping my knees bend. So far so good! Rented three during this odd times with no issues, better people with better financials and more money for rents. --99.203.xxx.xxx




Who's Left? (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 3:10 PM
Message:

I'm going to hang in there for now. My rooming house is largely unaffected by all the eviction moratoriums as this sort of property is exempt. I sold my four unit prior to the pandemic hitting to reinvest the proceeds in a property that I have in an opportunity zone. I have a duplex I got at a sheriff sale last year that I am wrapping up renovations on now. I'm struggling whether or not I'm going to sell or rent it. My area is the beneficiary of people fleeing New York City and northern Jersey, so both the rental markets as well as selling situations are hot. I'm considering flipping the duplex and trying to do another opportunity zone acquisition. --172.58.xxx.xxx




Who's Left? (by Hollis [MA]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 3:30 PM
Message:

I must say I'm getting tired of the fight, (my properties are in Ma and NY. with all their stupid laws) Besides its a different world. People (tenants) seem to think its a class war between themselves and "wealthy landlords".... Then you have small town politicians that know there are many more renters (voters) than LL's.

My wife and I have no real heirs to leave all this equity to. She is pushing me to sell off as we have lots of properties that are paid off.

Just for instance, I have 2 renters that are sabotaging their units causing bogus "health violations " and the BOH's in both towns don't care that its some stupid thing every month and pretty obvious that it was created (the move in condition sheet say how well they think every thing is) and to get rid of them looks like retaliation.

One even went up onto the fairly new roof and created a hole in which the rain comes in rt over their child's bed,..when I called a roofer he went over there and told them he couldn't do anything rt then (heavy downpour) so the tenant called the TV and newspapers and printed/conveyed what the roofer said when the tenant asked "what do you suggest?" The roofer said,(I'm sure as a bad joke) " I duuno, I guess get a tent" The news media said thats what the LL said to do. The TV people showed the poor tenants kid crying because she had no where to sleep,..

Thats just one of the recent fights. People's integrity has been getting worse in these later years.

Remember the saying "the customer is always right?" That may have worked in the old days but it doesn't work anymore. People will try anything that might work for them in this "class war" --96.236.xxx.xxx




Who's Left? (by RentsDue [MA]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 3:56 PM
Message:

Not building anything more than single family. Not buying anything more than single family. Itís the only way to adapt to the new LL hostile environment. If I had all SF , I would have sold by now. --75.133.xxx.xx




Who's Left? (by Johnny B. [MA]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 4:27 PM
Message:

Iím sticking it out. Owning income property has been very beneficial to me and my family. I also enjoy the challenge of owning property. Buying right and screening well are more important than ever though. --24.147.xx.xxx




Who's Left? (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 4:50 PM
Message:

I'm more optimistic than some here. I think that there will be challenges, but they just have to be managed through. Unfortunately, the pandemic has created the sort of crisis that allows for things to be done that would not have been possible previously. There is a distinct possibility of national rent controls and laws, however this must be a balanced against the big players who will resist this along with the banks. I'm going to take a wait and see attitude and pursue a strategy of selling and holding. --209.122.xx.xxx




Who's Left? (by Tonia [RI]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 5:01 PM
Message:

I just decided to stay in this business here in little Rhode Island. I love being a landlord and helping people have a good safe home they can be comfortable in. I do make a good positive cash flow although my rents could be higher but I have a good relationship with my tenants. I am not willing to expand though but I am sticking it out. I just would not know where to re-invest the money right now, and I am on the "younger side" for retirement. I agree with Johnny B that tighter screening is crucial now more then ever. --70.168.x.xxx




Who's Left? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Oct 17, 2020 9:55 AM
Message:

I have been slowly shifting to more purely passive real estate investments.

The other move that we have been doing is shifting the housing quality upward instead of growing the business.

We will grow - but later after the herd is thinned out --24.101.xxx.xx




Who's Left? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Oct 17, 2020 1:47 PM
Message:

We're in for the long haul. All rents paid. Only one late and I *knew* I never should have rented to her in the first place. But she's manageable, it's not war or anything.

We are not looking to expand because we won't do bidding wars. Plus we haven't found anything worth buying, not with the cost of rehab materials these days.

I am glad we do not own apartments, though. Just SFH's, duplexes, townhomes. And only TWO SFHs actually on their own property by themselves. The others all have ADUs or other cottages on a single piece of land, so it would be hard for a single tenant to attempt a takeover of multiple dwellings. --50.82.xxx.xxx




Who's Left? (by Hollis [MA]) Posted on: Oct 17, 2020 3:00 PM
Message:

Yah,...I might direct you to "MUST READ" posted by JoeLL here, a few posts above. I see this rumbling more and more. And more and more rights of LL are being affected. Tenant strikes will be coming more "normal". What are YOU going to do when it happens to your property? Don't expect any help from politicians. --96.236.xxx.xxx




Who's Left? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Oct 17, 2020 4:13 PM
Message:

That's why I don't want apartments. Tenant activists. --50.82.xxx.xxx




Who's Left? (by Still Learning [NH]) Posted on: Oct 17, 2020 5:45 PM
Message:

I think tenant strikes are more likely in buildings where the tenants donít perceive value. Jeffrey has taught us that yes, rentals are lucrative but the tenant or better called resident is a customer. If you are not offering the customer a perceived value they will leave or fight back. Most landlords here screen well, run a professional business, take pride in the housing they provide, etc. It doesnít mean we are perfect, or we never make a poor choice screening but I would like to think we are less likely to encounter a situation where the tenants strike and buy our buildings out from under us. --73.17.xx.xxx



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