With the eviction bans, late fee limitations, screening limitations, etc going on right now, who's considering getting out of the game? Or, who has got out of the game? If you're sticking around, what more needs to happen before you do call it quits? Why do you stick around? The market is hot right now (here anyway), is it possible to still make money by holding?

I'm just curious what everyone's thoughts are here. Curious if I can find some queues to look for in my state. We tend to be a red state, but we have a blue governor every now and then. Now happens to be one of those times. She isn't doing us any favors (IMO).

Anyway, just trying to get a pulse on the nationwide rental market. Are we really done and everything will go to government housing???

Not me, I'm staying in...for now. I think things will settle down within about 6 months...just need to manage through the difficult time.

Doogie,

Mine are all full with rents higher than I ever imagined. I don’t picture a full price sale when rented. But maybe I should market them to turnkey investors.

I have a flip almost ready for market because it’s the only vacant and it’s very sellable -4 bed, 2.5 bath.

I always thought I’d sell off and just be the bank for others.

BRAD

Doogie,

Mine are all full with rents higher than I ever imagined. I don’t picture a full price sale when rented. But maybe I should market them to turnkey investors.

I have a flip almost ready for market because it’s the only vacant and it’s very sellable -4 bed, 2.5 bath.

I always thought I’d sell off and just be the bank for others.

BRAD

I have been spoiled by having 95% excellent tenants. That being said maintenance and repairs needs are still more frequent than I care for- well not that bad, but a nuisance when you are trying to enjoy a second home out-of-state or travel anywhere.

So I decided three years ago to sell whenever anyone moved. I informed existing tenants that more often than not they would have to make arrangements to give access to the home for repairs related to electrical, AC, plumbing, roofing or appliances. Any other items would have to wait untiL I was in town to address them unless it was an emergency.

This month, while out of town I had to have a foundation stabilization company add some push-piers to a problem area but they worked with me from a distance. And we had a drain pipe in a block wall rust out and start leaking through the wall but my plumber is outstanding and now a tenant so I made sure he saved some pieces of the debris so I could color match the paint to finish the repair once I’m back.

Thus far I’ve sold 10 houses (roughly three per year). One is scheduled already to sell next year to a current occupant. All have sold for top dollar at the current market at the time they sold.

Our market is super hot for selling right now so I’m hoping something else opens up next year. And yes, my taxes have gone way up. I’m paying over $100,000 a year. That is the only downfall.

As difficult as being a LL in MA can be, especially during these extremely challenging times, I can't think of anywhere else to put the profits from property sales that will give me anywhere close to the returns I get from my rentals. For example last December I seriously considered accepting a $1.3 million offer for a 6 unit which I paid 48.5K for 40+ years ago. Once I factored in Uncle Sam undeserved take from the profits, I couldn't find anyplace to safely park the money that would yield what I make from owning it. To look after this property, deal with the tenants & local officials, handle the necessary paperwork requires about 4-6 hours per month of my time. Even though my time commitment hasn't changed much in years my weekly compensation has steadily risen. According to my 2019 tax returns, each week I pocketed over $1,300 (not including depreciation benefits) from this property. This property was destroyed by fire & completely rebuilt in 2015 with insurance funds. This rebuilding allowed me to restart reaping the benefits of some meaningful depreciation on this building all over again without having to recapture any of the previously used depreciation.

If I was just starting out, had some mortgages, didn't have systems in place to deal with running & maintaining my properties, decent subs, knowledge & ability to handle things or more importantly no longer had the desire to be a LL, I would definitely consider finding a way to profitably sell off my properties while the market was still at it's current peak.

For reasons still unknown, some of my best years in this business happened after the RE market collapse in 2008. From 2008-2013, my tenant pool was at it best and I was able to buy fixer-uppers at dirt cheap prices. That all changed when the market improved in 2014.

There is an old saying that 'when the going gets tough, the tough go shopping'...and that is just what I did back then.

Staying put for now. As Steve[MA] said, there's not too many better alternatives. My state is pretty traditional and hasn't gone nuts yet, although we did have no evictions for a little while it wasn't due to a ban, the courthouse was shut down. Today we're back to business as usual, although having to content with the CDC's unconstitutional farce of a moratorium.

For now, I have a mix of residential and commercial. I like the higher cash on cash returns of residential, but that sector also has the most potential to be regulated since apparently the Govt believes land lords are evil scum who abuse poor ignorant renters so they have to regulate housing excessively to level the playing field. Commercial RE assumes that both parties are savvy enough to conduct themselves as responsible adults and we can basically figure out whatever works best for us, and if you don't pay you still get booted out of your space.

main reason I"m sticking with rentals: very low visibility compared with other businesses. I don't have a website or an office, and only have a public profile when I have a vacancy. I only advertise on zillow, zumper and craigslist and while they know the address of the property, they don't know my name, phone or email. When I contact them , I can screen them without them knowing which property is mine.

Sure, many munis require rental permits/inspections, but those only inspect the PROPERTY, not you or your business. The IRS only cares about about your profits and deductions. No one audits the way you run your rentals or how you screen tenants.

I would like to know this myself.

6x6, they drive to the house and harass the neighbors (true story).

They send me an inquiry thru my zillow/zumper/craigslist ad with THEIR phone number. I call them at MY leisure on my burner phone.

Thank you all for your replies! I agree with yall. I'm staying put as well. As Steve pointed out, I don't know where I would put the money. The returns are too good compared to the alternatives. I also agree with Roy. After the market crashed in 2008ish, it was really good business here. My area tends to lag by a couple years, so starting about 2010, it got really good.

Another reason it's hard for me to get out is the freedom this provides. I was forced into retirement at the ripe old age of 42. The company I was doing my day gig for had layoffs and I got caught in it. I interviewed for other positions, but found myself questioning what I was doing. After a few months, I realized that rentals provided more than enough income and I didn't need to work a W-2 job anymore. Once you get that taste of freedom, it's very hard to give up. Since then, I have acquired 3 more properties and paid 3 off. If I "work" 4 hours a day, it's a looooonggggg day now.

I'm currently in buying mode again. The problem is that prices are going up. I've looked at a few, made offers on a few and nothing is working. I'm hoping Roy is right and in the next year or two, prices will come down and I can expand again.

PS - I say I am semi-retired now. I'm probably as retired as I'm going to get. Once I got the real estate in my blood, I knew it would most likely never leave. As I grow older, I will probably downsize and shift stuff around. I'm not sure at this particular point in time I see myself without a few rentals....

I've listed some but I don't want to jump ship entirely until I see what permenant insanity becomes law from all this hysteria.

I already did what I was going to do a couple of years ago. Progressives in Oregon were going more and more anti-landlord, so I sold everything and moved. I also greatly reduced the number of units I own.

There hasn't been an eviction moratorium here (and no more evictions than normal), until the federal level one.

If the socialists get into power and start to do more damage, I will sell out. (and give them all of my profits in income taxes, sigh.)

What happens in a conservative state where the progressives can't have their way, is that they sue from out of state to impose their programs. Boise would not allow the homeless to sleep on the sidewalks and there was a lawsuit filed back east and a federal judge ruled that Boise must allow the homeless to sleep on the sidewalks.

Because I started in the rental business at age 18 and have been doing this for so long, I road out the dips and climbs through 3 complete cycles. In 2005, 2006 and 2017 I sold off my worst properties -- Class "C" units and some single family homes who's locations became undesirable.

My current inventory is about as good as it can get. Good schools, in job related area's. Near shopping, transportation and so on. I also did major re-habs on my rentals. Spending more than the original purchase price in remodeling some 30 years later.

There isn't much out there I'd rather put my money into. I can always find something, but the "conversion" costs are too high, paying over 45% of the proceeds in taxes and fee's. So if I sold off Ten Million in Income Property to only net Six Million, a loss of 4 million in taxes/fee's, it will take a lifetime of investing to make up those "conversion" losses.

Staying in this game and building new ones!

In 2011 we built a new duplex.

In 2018 we built a new 8-plex (never again that big)

In 2020 we built a new duplex.

Our next project is a new 4-plx.

I must say I'm getting tired of the fight, (my properties are in Ma and NY. with all their stupid laws) Besides its a different world. People (tenants) seem to think its a class war between themselves and "wealthy landlords".... Then you have small town politicians that know there are many more renters (voters) than LL's.

My wife and I have no real heirs to leave all this equity to. She is pushing me to sell off as we have lots of properties that are paid off.

Just for instance, I have 2 renters that are sabotaging their units causing bogus "health violations " and the BOH's in both towns don't care that its some stupid thing every month and pretty obvious that it was created (the move in condition sheet say how well they think every thing is) and to get rid of them looks like retaliation.

One even went up onto the fairly new roof and created a hole in which the rain comes in rt over their child's bed,..when I called a roofer he went over there and told them he couldn't do anything rt then (heavy downpour) so the tenant called the TV and newspapers and printed/conveyed what the roofer said when the tenant asked "what do you suggest?" The roofer said,(I'm sure as a bad joke) " I duuno, I guess get a tent" The news media said thats what the LL said to do. The TV people showed the poor tenants kid crying because she had no where to sleep,..

Thats just one of the recent fights. People's integrity has been getting worse in these later years.

I have been slowly shifting to more purely passive real estate investments.

The other move that we have been doing is shifting the housing quality upward instead of growing the business.

We're in for the long haul. All rents paid. Only one late and I *knew* I never should have rented to her in the first place. But she's manageable, it's not war or anything.

We are not looking to expand because we won't do bidding wars. Plus we haven't found anything worth buying, not with the cost of rehab materials these days.