Definition of residing? (by Hoosier [IN]) Oct 14, 2020 4:29 PM|
Definition of residing? (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2020 4:37 PM
Definition of residing? (by WMH [NC]) Oct 14, 2020 4:38 PM
Definition of residing? (by WMH [NC]) Oct 14, 2020 4:43 PM
Definition of residing? (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2020 4:48 PM
Definition of residing? (by WMH [NC]) Oct 14, 2020 5:08 PM
Definition of residing? (by Robert J [CA]) Oct 14, 2020 5:21 PM
Definition of residing? (by Ken [NY]) Oct 14, 2020 6:05 PM
Definition of residing? (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2020 6:46 PM
Definition of residing? (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2020 6:49 PM
Definition of residing? (by Vee [OH]) Oct 14, 2020 6:58 PM
Definition of residing? (by Ken [NY]) Oct 14, 2020 7:21 PM
Definition of residing? (by 6x6 [TN]) Oct 14, 2020 8:03 PM
Definition of residing? (by Sorta Blonde [CA]) Oct 14, 2020 9:16 PM
Definition of residing? (by Nicole [PA]) Oct 14, 2020 9:49 PM
Definition of residing? (by David [MI]) Oct 15, 2020 8:34 AM
Definition of residing? (by Donna [PA]) Oct 15, 2020 10:10 AM
Definition of residing? (by Jerry [MA]) Oct 15, 2020 1:18 PM
Definition of residing? (by Hoosier [IN]) Oct 15, 2020 3:26 PM
Definition of residing? (by Sisco [MO]) Oct 15, 2020 4:16 PM
Definition of residing? (by Hoosier [IN]) Oct 16, 2020 12:13 AM
Definition of residing? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Oct 16, 2020 9:41 AM
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Definition of residing? (by Hoosier [IN]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2020 4:29 PM
How do you address/define in your lease that no one is allowed to "reside" in the house other than those on the lease?
The reason I'm asking is that one of our tenants has a girlfriend that seems to be at the house a lot. We do state in our lease that anyone "staying 2 weeks or more, even if on non-contiguous days" is not considered a visitor and must be on the lease....but this language does not define "staying" and the guy might just claim she visits every day for a few hours then leaves. He has stated to me in an email that she is not living there, but I do see her car there a lot.
I'd like some help with suggested wording that would make this more clear and give me a clause with more "teeth" on this topic.
I know that during my maintenance visits I can look for obvious signs like her clothes in the closet or toothbrush on the bath counter...but I don't want to be snooping around any more than necessary.
Definition of residing? (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2020 4:37 PM
I can think of a few ways to word it in the lease, but you're still going to have problems to "prove" she is living there.
Instead, require the tenant to provide proof the girlfriend has another residence. Much the same way a school requires proof of residence, like their own property deed, lease, utility bill, bank statement etc.
Definition of residing? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2020 4:38 PM
I think you are interfering in someone's private life.
What if it was his sister, mother, brother, cousin or friend hanging out with him at HIS home? Would you say they couldn't visit more than two total weeks in a year? How crazy is that? --50.82.xxx.xxx
Definition of residing? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2020 4:43 PM
My kids and grandkids come visit over Memorial Day for 3 days, then later every summer for 10-12 days. Then they come again at Thanksgiving for 4 days, and again at Christmas. Hopefully other weekends as well.
Well more than 2 weeks over the course of a year.
And if I was a young person, and dating, I'd sure hope my BF or GF could visit me more than two weeks a year, especially if they were living somewhere else. --50.82.xxx.xxx
Definition of residing? (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2020 4:48 PM
wmh, they can get a hotel instead of violating the lease --50.4.xxx.x
Definition of residing? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2020 5:08 PM
I think those lease terms are really ridiculous. FWIW. --50.82.xxx.xxx
Definition of residing? (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2020 5:21 PM
There are differences between extra "guests" in a House, Apartment or Condo.
With a Single Family House, the tenants pay the water, power and gas. An extra person only adds to extra wear and tear.
With an apartment or condo the Owner(s) pay for the water and sometimes some of the power.
In my case an apartment tenant kept on having his and her parents over for dinner, sleep overs etc. The tenants didn't understand what my fuss was about. I showed them the Water and Sewer Bills from when they first moved in and later on when the had an open door policy for their family and friends. For each extra person, my water and sewer cost rose around $25 a month. This included my central water heaters gas bill. Thus two or three extra person meant a minimum of an extra $50 to $75 per month.
My tenant said, "well Robert, that's too bad"! So I gave my tenants a 10% rent hike, allowable for each extra occupant. My tenant added a sisters name to the mailbox directory and the sister ordered a weekly magazine delivered there.
So when the tenants had the chance to pay me a few bucks extra per month for their guest use, they refused. But a $120 rent increase, they couldn't fight... --47.155.xx.xxx
Definition of residing? (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2020 6:05 PM
I agree with WMH,as long as my tenant is not causing me problems with a family member or boyfriend/girlfriend i dont care who visits and for how long. David,it is there home,they should be left alone to live in there home and not bugged by a landlord with nothing better to do.How would you like it if the bank holding your mortgage said the same thing if you had company over? --72.231.xxx.xxx
Definition of residing? (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2020 6:46 PM
Look at it from a different angle. If you don't strictly enforce who lives at your property, when you are processing applications, how do you ensure every adult submits an app?
I'll give you two examples from my experience
First, a young couple with an infant. The man submits only his application. I ask about the woman, He says she won't be living there. What would you do?
Second, a middle age couple (no kids). The woman applies by herself, says her husband isn't moving in, he has a govt job in DC. Her current place says both her and her husband on the lease, but they gave notice. What would you do here?
(neither of them ended up signing a lease)
Definition of residing? (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2020 6:49 PM
I understand what Ken and WMH are saying, I did it myself when I married my wife and moved into her apt. Had the PM asked me, I would not have lied and gladly filled an app and signed a lease , which I did after a few months.
But my concern as a LL is explained in the prior post --50.4.xxx.x
Definition of residing? (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2020 6:58 PM
I follow what most courts describe as -grandma summer vacation- when your guest stays more than 14 in any 100 they are no longer guests, getting a utility bill or bank statement verifies this so you can observe and photo the mail however you are forbidden to open it. --76.188.xxx.xxx
Definition of residing? (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2020 7:21 PM
David, when i am processing applications i would consider your examples to be lying to me and not rent to them,there is probably a reason.If i rented to someone and a week later there is someone around all the time i would be talking to the tenant about why that person is living there when they didnt apply or get approved but once a tenant is in a unit for awhile and hasnt caused me any problems i dont care if a boyfriend is around more than usual,i probably wouldnt even know as i dont drive by very often and unless my maintenance man said something i wouldnt know --72.231.xxx.xxx
Definition of residing? (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2020 8:03 PM
Neighbors can be helpful in determining if they live there. --73.120.xx.xxx
Definition of residing? (by Sorta Blonde [CA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2020 9:16 PM
My previous tenants had a HUGE family and always was taking in what I call, 'strays'. Friends, relatives, anyone who needed a place to stay for awhile. I tried to keep track but when I tallied up all the days they were obviously living there, I started a new way of making sure I got compensated without adding them to the lease. Some I wouldn't have wanted as tenants anyway. So my old method was to count the days they slept there and charge 100 bucks for 30 days and made sure the tenants knew if they continued, there would be a substantial rent increase with the new person added to the lease. My new method is to allow for 3 consecutive NIGHTS and then start charging 5 bucks PER person for each night after that. The extra money would cover water and electricity use. If they are not a 'good' person I have wording that would allow me to deny them tenancy and to remove them immediately from the premises. Sort of a 'no trespass' deal. Haven't had tne new tenants long enough to h ave problems, but I'm ready. --72.199.xx.xxx
Definition of residing? (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2020 9:49 PM
Like wmh, I have grandchildren. I actually have quite a few of them. Mine all live close - more than 1/2 within bike riding / walking distance. Weekends there is usually someone here. Often times, nosiness/fear of missing out on something "important" leads one or several others appearing and deciding to stay. I guarantee each and every one of my grandchildren are sleeping at my house more than 14 days a year. They all have their own dresser drawer and section of the closet. There are bikes here. There are toys here. There are little kids cups and dishes in the sink. There are 12 toothbrushes here. None of these kids "lives" here.
I realize you are probably talking about adults. In today's world, staying over at your girl/boyfriend's place is probably more common than not. It does not mean they are living there. Asking them to prove they don't can also be problematic - what if they live w/parents (no deed, no lease, no utility bills).
Like others, I want to know who's there but differentiating staying over and living together has probably blurred during the past 20 or 30 years. --72.70.xxx.xx
Definition of residing? (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 15, 2020 8:34 AM
Nicole, my lease says that the only people who can live there are the people on the lease AND all their minor children. I am lax about it and include their minor grandchildren.
Aside: In terms of who lives there full-time, one thing I absolutely do not allow are minors who live there with an older sibling or a grandparent who does not have guardianship or custody granted. --50.4.xxx.x
Definition of residing? (by Donna [PA]) Posted on: Oct 15, 2020 10:10 AM
In my area it is common practice for one person to inquire and rent a home. The one month later you have mom, dad, grandma, grandpa and several brothers and sisters living there. They just appear like a swarm of bees overnight. No one has a job and no intention on getting one. When confronted they acquire this dazed and confused look. Like no one was supposed to notice the heard that just moved in. --99.203.xxx.xx
Definition of residing? (by Jerry [MA]) Posted on: Oct 15, 2020 1:18 PM
If they get mail at the address, they are a resident. --71.233.xxx.xx
Definition of residing? (by Hoosier [IN]) Posted on: Oct 15, 2020 3:26 PM
LOL...well this has not been very helpful.
And WMH...you said you thought the lease rule was rediculous "FWIW"...well your view in this case ain't worth much LOL.
If a LL has no boundaries, I believe you are opening yourself up to lots of things. Someone above said "if they are not causing any problems" to me that's not being proactive. Let's wait until there's a problem, THEN we'll do something. If he wants her to be there all the time, let's add her to the lease so I can check her criminal background and credit so I can hold her accountable if she damages something or causes some other issue.
The "visitor" could bring in drugs, animals, THEIR children (what if the guy gets a girlfriend who has 3 kids and they "visit" the house for 8 hours every day?), liability issues and so much more.
I believe if you don't have some level of enforcement, then why would you ever ask for anyone to sign the lease other than one adult? If a person gave me a logical reason for needing more than 2 weeks for visitors, I would certainly entertain it and give them a waiver in writing...but I'd rather have a boundary on the front end. --99.92.xxx.xxx
Definition of residing? (by Sisco [MO]) Posted on: Oct 15, 2020 4:16 PM
Hoosier, as Jerry mentioned if they receive mail at the address,or utility accounts ,or if this person gives this address as their residence to others.
Use of PO boxes and utilities in BF/GF name makes this method of proof too prone to faulty information.
None of these methods is likely to provide the conclusive evidence that you seek.....I don't think a singular item can be conclusive evidence.
You will instead need to evict and take the evidence that you have before the Judge.
Better yet, consider this issue when signing the lease, visiting their current home and make your tenant selection accordingly (overall life stability, cooperativeness,are they a rule keeper, do they keep you apprised of issues.) --67.43.xxx.xxx
Definition of residing? (by Hoosier [IN]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 12:13 AM
This guy was married when they started renting...and then they split less than a month after their second child!
Hard to predict sometimes. The good news is, he is paying every month so far. --99.92.xxx.xxx
Definition of residing? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2020 9:41 AM
If the girl friend spends the night - who cares. I am not the sleeping police.
If the girl friend is driving over there in a U-Haul - you need to get involved.
I pay for my residents first year of renters insurance. I let them know that in the event of say a fire - it will look a great deal like fraud if he ends up claiming five of her bras if she isn't on the lease.
It is that or he will have to explain to the insurance company about his alternative life style --24.101.xxx.xx
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