6 cent tax sale (by Tony [NJ]) Sep 17, 2020 10:55 AM|
6 cent tax sale (by 6x6 [TN]) Sep 17, 2020 11:23 AM
6 cent tax sale (by Nicole [PA]) Sep 17, 2020 12:22 PM
6 cent tax sale (by Tom [ME]) Sep 17, 2020 12:23 PM
6 cent tax sale (by Sorta Blonde [CA]) Sep 17, 2020 12:26 PM
6 cent tax sale (by NE [PA]) Sep 17, 2020 12:40 PM
6 cent tax sale (by 6x6 [TN]) Sep 17, 2020 12:42 PM
6 cent tax sale (by NE [PA]) Sep 17, 2020 12:44 PM
6 cent tax sale (by Jeff [CO]) Sep 17, 2020 12:51 PM
6 cent tax sale (by S i d [MO]) Sep 17, 2020 12:52 PM
6 cent tax sale (by Rita [MA]) Sep 17, 2020 12:57 PM
6 cent tax sale (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Sep 17, 2020 1:30 PM
6 cent tax sale (by WMH [NC]) Sep 17, 2020 1:31 PM
6 cent tax sale (by Small potatoes [NY]) Sep 17, 2020 1:40 PM
6 cent tax sale (by myob [GA]) Sep 17, 2020 1:52 PM
6 cent tax sale (by MikeA [TX]) Sep 17, 2020 2:46 PM
6 cent tax sale (by myob [GA]) Sep 17, 2020 2:54 PM
6 cent tax sale (by Sorta Blonde [CA]) Sep 17, 2020 3:18 PM
6 cent tax sale (by RB [MI]) Sep 17, 2020 3:48 PM
6 cent tax sale (by Scott [IN]) Sep 17, 2020 4:08 PM
6 cent tax sale (by Pmh [TX]) Sep 17, 2020 6:43 PM
6 cent tax sale (by 6x6 [TN]) Sep 17, 2020 6:56 PM
6 cent tax sale (by myob [GA]) Sep 18, 2020 7:24 AM
6 cent tax sale (by Nicole [PA]) Sep 18, 2020 9:13 AM
6 cent tax sale (by John... [MI]) Sep 18, 2020 9:21 AM
6 cent tax sale (by Ken [NY]) Sep 18, 2020 1:57 PM
6 cent tax sale (by Smokowna [MD]) Sep 19, 2020 7:57 AM
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6 cent tax sale (by Tony [NJ]) Posted on: Sep 17, 2020 10:55 AM
Elderly New Jersey homeowner nearly loses home — over 6 cents in back taxes
By Natalie O'Neill
The city truly nickeled and dimed her.
An 89-year-old New Jersey woman who suffers from Alzheimer’s disease nearly lost her home because of a measly 6 cents she owed in back taxes.
The tiny debt, which she neglected to pay on her 2019 taxes, then accrued to more than $300 in interest by last week — prompting officials in Ocean Township put Glen Kristi Goldenthal’s home up for sale on Sept. 9, NBC New York reported.
“Shame on anybody who can’t think far outside the box enough to come up with six cents in an office full of people. You can’t pull a dime out of your pocket?” Goldenthal’s infuriated daughter, Lisa Suhay, told the station. Suhay only found out about the 6 cents which started the whole ordeal the day her mother’s house was put up for sale.
“She’s called me dozens of times in the last 24 hours, [asking] ‘Is my house gonna be OK? Do I have to pack? Where am I gonna go, live?’”
Goldenthal received at least one warning call from a tax collector but Suhay, of Virginia, says her mom is forgetful due to her condition — and that even the official who phoned could tell she needed help.
“Apparently the tax collector called her because when I talked to him, he said he realized there was something wrong, that she didn’t understand,” said Suhay. “[I said] I’m sorry, you’re selling my mother’s house today because she owes you six cents. He said yeah, it’s amazing how these things snowball…I was like, ‘It’s six cents!’”
In a desperate attempt to save her mother’s home, Suhay called the Monmouth County township’s office, including Mayor Christopher Siciliano.
Siciliano later apologized for the situation.
“Naturally it’s really embarrassing the town would put someone’s home up for sale over six cents,” he said. “It’s silly.”
Suhay paid off her mom’s debt and the house was taken off the market — but she’s still fuming.
“How many people during a pandemic, or any other time, are being victimized by this greedy broken system?” Suhay said.
6 cent tax sale (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Sep 17, 2020 11:23 AM
I am not sure that it is a broken system. It is probably policy and procedures. If you help one then you have to help them all. Give an inch and they take a mile. If the daughter already knew that she was having problems then she should have probably already been handling her bills. It does seem silly and you would think that someone would have just taken care of it or at least called her while it was just 6 cents short. By the same token it goes back to the fact that if you do for one then you will be nailed to the cross if you don't do for everyone. Where do you draw the line. Hence, the policy and procedures. --73.120.xx.xxx
6 cent tax sale (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: Sep 17, 2020 12:22 PM
Very sad but if the daughter knows her mother is "forgetful due to her condition", she should have stepped in rather than assume a massive government entity will.
Yes, in the best of worlds, the tax collector would have a little bowl on the desk like beside a cash register and put the dime towards the payment but that's not the world we live in... personal responsibility is what you can and should rely on. --72.70.xxx.xx
6 cent tax sale (by Tom [ME]) Posted on: Sep 17, 2020 12:23 PM
6x6 shame on you.
at least draw your line.
how about 9 cents?? --98.11.xxx.xxx
6 cent tax sale (by Sorta Blonde [CA]) Posted on: Sep 17, 2020 12:26 PM
True Story: My dad had Parkinson's with Dementia. He did everything himself, very capable in all things. In my entire lifetime, I never saw him let my mom touch a checkbook, or handle a bill. When he finally had to go to a nursing home, Mom called me to come help with all the 'paperwork' in his office. I found SIX huge black yard size trash bags, overflowing with papers. I brought them home, started looking and found years and years of bills, some paid, some not, old checks, some sent, some not, some never cashed that were to him, deeds, Fanny Mae accounts, wills, bank account stuff. ALL in the bags, crumpled and a load of them STAPLED together in packs, with no rhyme or reason. It took me 3 months to sort it all out. He had not paid some of the bills, had paid some of them twice in the same month, was paying on a term life insurance policy that reached its limit 4 years before and wasn't getting any extra coverage from it. The best one was for the Triple Wide Mobile Home in their park which had NOT been registered (have to get stickers like a vehicle) for 2 years! I called the State office and got a wonderfully nice lady who also had a dad with Dementia. She broke a few rules, wiped out the past due amounts (not a lot) and titled the Mobile Home in my name. The paperwork was already there for the transfer, just not the check. I had the check in my hand that he never sent. Some people are willing to listen, actually care and all was taken care of. It could have gone the other way except for a 'human' who cared, had the time, and worked with me. I always will be thankful for real people who have time to listen. --72.199.xx.xxx
6 cent tax sale (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Sep 17, 2020 12:40 PM
I didn't read the story entirely, because I'm not concerned with the owners specifics. However, these types of things go all the way back to Thomas Jefferson's time when they were laying out the country.
In my opinion, a tax sale is one of the most fundamental ways that this country maintains itself. For example, a person dies and there's no heirs left to pay for a property. The county or Township or however it's held maintains its Authority and tax basis by legally taken control of this property and putting it back in the inventory.
It's a perpetual system. And it's very interesting when you watch it take place. I have bought properties for next to nothing that have been owned by the same owner for 80 years.
I would love to get a functioning property for six cents.
Also, if this sale actually happened and this owner has no recourse due to the fact that everything was properly done, somebody just got one heck of a deal. Also, I would say that if there were no other bidders and they actually did spend six cents only on it and the bid was not ran up by multiple bidders to something astronomical, this might be a market that you want to look into, because there's no competition there.
I love the idea of buying a property for six cents --70.44.xxx.xx
6 cent tax sale (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Sep 17, 2020 12:42 PM
Tom, I am actually a nice guy and I would most likely had paid the 6 cents for the lady if I knew her situation. The reality, according to the story, is that, most likely, no one really knew the lady's situation accept for the daughter who didn't inform anyone until it was too late and the bill had grown. The daughter knew for a while abought the mothers problems and should have already been keeping an eye on things. My response was in relation to this thought and reality. You really don't know if someone has mental issues or is just being careless or playing games unless you somehow become aware. In this case, no one was really made aware until the bill grew and it was too late. If they became aware of the situation and there was a legal way to just wipe it clean then, that should have been done, I agree. --73.120.xx.xxx
6 cent tax sale (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Sep 17, 2020 12:44 PM
OK, read a little bit more and apparently she didn't lose her home, but she absolutely could have. --70.44.xxx.xx
6 cent tax sale (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Sep 17, 2020 12:51 PM
The didn't even nickel and dime her. They nickeled and pennied her! What stupid and greedy bureaucrats. --76.120.xx.xxx
6 cent tax sale (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Sep 17, 2020 12:52 PM
I agree that it's silly on the fact of it, but in the absence of a policy there's not much the Govt can do. I have seen dumber things before. Govt's aren't like businesses where there's a "Need a Penny, Take a Penny; Have a Penny, Leave a Penny" jar on the counter.
Would I have put in a dime if I were in that office? You bet. I can't stand change clogging up my wallet, and if it's helpful to someone then by all means.
But yes, a line has to be drawn somewhere, and in my state at least the Collector has no authority over drawing that line outside of the law. The law is set at the state level and must be followed. The Law says X, period, and if the Collector doesn't follow it they risk being sued for breach of duty and / or the former owner can petition to overturn the whole process.
So where is "the line" below which tax sales are too low to deprive someone of property? $1, $50, $100, $500, $1000?
What about the value of the house vs. the taxes due? Houses are typically worth $10,000 - $500,000 dollars. Would it be better then to assign a percentage where we draw the line?
I we stick with a hard and fast dollar amount, what if $1,000 owed is the line and person A owed $999 and person B owes $1,001? Do we penalize B for being $2 short vs. A? Isn't that also "ridiculous?"
Govt is an inflexible beast most of the time, which is why I favor LESS of it in general. There is zero room to do something creative once the time frames in the statute elapse. Monday morning arm chair quarterbacks call it "ridiculous", but did they do anything themselves to make it better? Hardly!
If anyone feels so strongly about this, you can always start contacting all County Collectors in your state and requesting to pay all bills under $X. It would be more constructive to act on one's own accord vs. criticism someone else for failing to act. --107.216.xxx.xxx
6 cent tax sale (by Rita [MA]) Posted on: Sep 17, 2020 12:57 PM
This happened to me, when I paid .07 short on my tax bill (It was an error on my part on the personal check). Well, my "new" mortgage service (my loan got sold) sent me a notice that I was required to put taxes and insurance into escrow. I ended up paying the shortage and fighting it but was rather stressful. I know watch my tax payments more closely. --70.168.x.xxx
6 cent tax sale (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Posted on: Sep 17, 2020 1:30 PM
For fun, look at all the paperwork involved for an overpayment. Tax collection is a process. To be fair to everyone some are treated unfairly. However, taking care of her mother means taking over these responsibilities.
When I write my property tax check, I check the total on the check and the bill several times before I put the check into the envelope. I'm way to paranoid of something like this happening. Always have. --108.69.xxx.xxx
6 cent tax sale (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Sep 17, 2020 1:31 PM
I just sat down to schedule payment for all of the properties for end of year. Yuck.
I have a problem with the guy who "knew something was wrong." I'm thinking a County employee is a mandated reporter, like teachers and doctors and other civil servants. If they suspect an issue like that, they should have called the Department of Social Services, which not only handles kids at risk but the elderly as well. It's actually illegal not to if you are mandated. --50.82.xxx.xxx
6 cent tax sale (by Small potatoes [NY]) Posted on: Sep 17, 2020 1:40 PM
There is a nationwide coin shortage, she should be given a covid varience for that --24.194.xxx.xxx
6 cent tax sale (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Sep 17, 2020 1:52 PM
I just got my tax bills ready to pay. Due November 2020. $72,000.00 worth and have decided not to pay. It takes 2 years to get to the court steps.
I'm not giving tax money to people who have taken my property with no compensation. Heck they didn't open school s o now teacher should need money. When I hear they need the money to maintain the school-- I'll point out that i need my money to do the same on my properties.
I'm claiming the 72K is my reward for being forced to house others for free. --99.103.xxx.xxx
6 cent tax sale (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Sep 17, 2020 2:46 PM
So if one of your tenants was a $1 short paying rent would you accept that knowing that once you accept it next month will be $2 short and so forth until they test your limit? Really no different for a government entity. If the word got out that they would accept less then everyone would take advantage of it and push until they found the limit of what is "acceptably" less. While I don't like the outcome, we all need a little grace on things like thi, I don't know how to stop the tide of people taking advantage of the situation if you let it slip. --64.130.xx.xxx
6 cent tax sale (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Sep 17, 2020 2:54 PM
MikeTX if I were in the tax office-- that's exactly what i would do. Next year I'd increase the property taxes by 10% to cover the last years delinquency and any shortages.
First though-- as an official of the county./town and ELECTED i would send someone over to Joe shamoe's house and see what 's up. or send a wellness person to visit.
Very simple and cheap.
Then if i saw it was negligence -- that's when i'd rip their eyes out!!!! --99.103.xxx.xxx
6 cent tax sale (by Sorta Blonde [CA]) Posted on: Sep 17, 2020 3:18 PM
I think some of the 'shortage' notifications might be computer generated without humans getting involved. I wrote my water bill check for 70 cents short accidentally. Next time, I got a bill with a LATE FEE and a nasty note to pay or be shut off. I hardly think a human would do that for 70 cents --72.199.xx.xxx
6 cent tax sale (by RB [MI]) Posted on: Sep 17, 2020 3:48 PM
How bout overpaying them property taxes,
just to see what happens. --199.192.xxx.x
6 cent tax sale (by Scott [IN]) Posted on: Sep 17, 2020 4:08 PM
RB, great idea. Overpay each property by 1 penny. --107.141.xx.xxx
6 cent tax sale (by Pmh [TX]) Posted on: Sep 17, 2020 6:43 PM
is ludicrous a house can be lost for six cents. raise the bar. I think the response was they would implement legislation to raise minimum to $100. is NJ a democratic run state (?)...same issues with police seizures. --107.77.xxx.xxx
6 cent tax sale (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Sep 17, 2020 6:56 PM
RB, where I am they just put it as credit for the next year, supposedly. Without interest.
Sid and MikeA got it.
myob, that will be interesting to see how that plays out. I don't blame you for doing it. I just don't think you will win. That is one of the points that I brought up to the lady running for State Rep that I spoke to. --73.120.xx.xxx
6 cent tax sale (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Sep 18, 2020 7:24 AM
Six it may not affect anything-- but maybe others will get on board. I have to do something other than notify my Congressman and women and President. What this moratorium has done is make the Constitution invalid in my mind.
Local judges pull this in court-- I've heard it with my own ears-- "I know what the law says but I don't think that's what it means".
That may work in civil state court-- it doesn't fly concerning our Constitution.
I just got notice from the NRA -- on their web site they have the form to send out to represetitives.
FYI I have placed the taxes in the escrow account. --99.103.xxx.xxx
6 cent tax sale (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: Sep 18, 2020 9:13 AM
where I live, you'd initially be paying 10% penalty on the overdue taxes and at some point when they list for tax sale the additional costs are added and I believe they are significant. --72.70.xxx.xx
6 cent tax sale (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Sep 18, 2020 9:21 AM
Sorta Blonde: Agreed. It's just automated.
This isn't about a "broken system" and it certainly isn't about "greed."
An automated system did the normal thing it was programmed to do. Period.
The only thing that might be done differently might be programming in some alert when the amount is under some arbitrary threshold. So, if it is about to send out a late notice for something under, say, $10, then tell a human to take a look at what is going on.
But, again, this had nothing to do with "greed." And no real "mistake" was made. Everything worked as it was designed to. Maybe the design needs a slight change so that humans are more involved, but other than that, nothing was "broken" here. (Except maybe, as stated above, the daughter should have already been more involved with Mom's finances since she knew how "forgetful" she was!)
6 cent tax sale (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Sep 18, 2020 1:57 PM
I agree with John,the system did what it was designed to do --104.229.xxx.xxx
6 cent tax sale (by Smokowna [MD]) Posted on: Sep 19, 2020 7:57 AM
This may be my favorite post of the year. I've enjoyed all of the comments. I like the accusations of greed more than people underlining how this system works.
The America I am proud of would help the lady - I would be embarrassed otherwise.
You rich landlords are a fine group. --108.28.xx.xxx
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