Don't be afraid (by S i d [MO]) Sep 6, 2020 8:16 AM|
Don't be afraid (by MikeA [TX]) Sep 6, 2020 8:20 AM
Don't be afraid (by Dave [MO]) Sep 6, 2020 9:04 AM
Don't be afraid (by WMH [NC]) Sep 6, 2020 9:54 AM
Don't be afraid (by Hammer [TN]) Sep 6, 2020 10:05 AM
Don't be afraid (by Allym [NJ]) Sep 6, 2020 10:10 AM
Don't be afraid (by Hoosier [IN]) Sep 6, 2020 11:10 AM
Don't be afraid (by Jeffrey [VA]) Sep 6, 2020 11:40 AM
Don't be afraid (by WMH [NC]) Sep 6, 2020 12:00 PM
Don't be afraid (by myob [GA]) Sep 6, 2020 12:36 PM
Don't be afraid (by DJ [VA]) Sep 6, 2020 1:51 PM
Don't be afraid (by Jeffrey [VA]) Sep 6, 2020 2:15 PM
Don't be afraid (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Sep 7, 2020 2:23 AM
Don't be afraid (by myob [GA]) Sep 7, 2020 7:19 AM
Don't be afraid (by Jeffrey [VA]) Sep 7, 2020 9:24 AM
Don't be afraid (by myob [GA]) Sep 7, 2020 10:56 AM
Don't be afraid (by 6x6 [TN]) Sep 7, 2020 4:52 PM
Don't be afraid (by dan [OR]) Sep 8, 2020 11:35 AM
Don't be afraid (by good landlord [CA]) Sep 8, 2020 12:37 PM
Don't be afraid (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Sep 9, 2020 3:19 PM
Don't be afraid (by David Etenburn [WA]) Sep 12, 2020 11:02 PM
Don't be afraid (by NE [PA]) Sep 13, 2020 5:43 AM
Don't be afraid (by Jeffrey [VA]) Sep 13, 2020 2:38 PM
Don't be afraid (by NE [PA]) Sep 13, 2020 3:43 PM
Don't be afraid (by Jeffrey [VA]) Sep 14, 2020 7:24 AM
Don't be afraid (by JKJ [MA]) Sep 14, 2020 10:31 AM
Don't be afraid (by Jeffrey [VA]) Sep 15, 2020 8:43 AM
Don't be afraid (by Laura [MD]) Sep 15, 2020 4:39 PM
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Don't be afraid (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Sep 6, 2020 8:16 AM
Some folks here were pretty panicked by the CDC eviction moratorium issued yesterday. I get it: the sweeping nature of it makes it seem like the worst thing since unsliced bread.
But if you take the time to read up on what it actually says, you will likely find many of your fears calmed.
Step 1: Get the knowledge Resource: leadingage.org/regulation/cdc-issues-federal-eviction-moratorium-through-end-year
Now that you know what is actually going on, it's time to take Step 2 and apply that knowledge. You can still evict for lease violations like damages, excessive guests, drug use, other criminal acts, hassling other tenants, etc. The ONLY type of eviction forbidden is flat out non-payment of rent.
What does that mean? It means you still have a LOT of leeway to take your property back if needed. For example, I see nothing in this ruling that would forbid ending a lease agreement via non-renewal. Non-renewal has nothing to do with non-payment of rent. Ask your lawyer to be sure, but that's how I read it.
I think we all know that if you have a good lease, odds are your tenant is violating some part of it. Maybe they occasionally smoke inside. Maybe they have an extra pet. Maybe boyfriend moved in and isn't on the lease. 1, 2, 3 fully justified evictions.
Maybe there is a hole in the wall. Property damage. Evict as normal.
We overlook a lot of things because "they're paying the rent." Well....not that they AREN'T paying the rent, it's time to stop overlooking things. Clean up your policies and procedures, go do some inspections, and clean house when needed.
Again I think it all goes back to screening though. Any time the Govt makes it harder to kick people out for ANY reason, we have to be smarter about who we let in. I only take the best tenants in the Class C pool of applicants because even in good times evictions are still too costly. I need people who have a good reputation and who value that, so that when something like this happens they still have their reputation to protect. Yeah, it's harder to find those folks in Class C, but they do exist. Class B or A land lords, this should be easy for you!
Bottom line: I think the only LLs who will have a lot of problems with these regulations are the LLs who do not get informed, who do not regularly inspect their properties, and who are not diligently screening. Yes, it is Govt overreach. Yes, it could get worse. But this is how it stands today. Act on that.
Don't be afraid (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Sep 6, 2020 8:20 AM
Last night when I read it I was really pissed. The more I have thought through it, reality sets in. While I don't like the government overreach because we are seeing more and more of it, concerning on many fronts. I am also somewhat disheartened that the Pres is caving, but honestly it could have been worse with others in charge.
The reality is most people that have screened well will continue to pay, a post on this site a few weeks ago confirmed that for me. It's 4 months (really 3 since September should be in the bank) and the election will be over then and likely a vaccine rolling out so hopefully it won't be extended. The wording is vague on parts and they left other options so there are ways to skin the cat if necessary. The only thing left to do is to fully understand the nuances and come up with effective ways to operate as I need to. Oh, and raise heck with all of my elected officials that allowed this as a matter of courtesy to my children and grand children.
So, after some time to hash it out, I still thank the Lord for all the blessings he has given me. --64.130.xx.xxx
Don't be afraid (by Dave [MO]) Posted on: Sep 6, 2020 9:04 AM
After reviewing the CDC website about the eviction moratorium. There are many options available to file for an eviction other than non payment as Sid, mentioned. The only change I see for me, is on new leasing criteria It will be to maximize the deposits and require first and last months rent. Times have changed and LL have to adjust and not panic. I don’t agree with anything the government has passed on to the LL. Keep my screening as usual. --173.216.xxx.xx
Don't be afraid (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Sep 6, 2020 9:54 AM
I'm actually going to embrace the CDC form. Maybe incorporate it into life as we know it going forward.
Instead of having a tenant tell me their grandfather died for the third time and somehow only he alone had the cash to bury him again, this CDC form will be settled science and subject to perjury complaints if used.
We need to brainstorm on how to use it to OUR advantage. --50.82.xxx.xxx
Don't be afraid (by Hammer [TN]) Posted on: Sep 6, 2020 10:05 AM
Great idea WMH ! How can it be turned to our advantage?
Don't be afraid (by Allym [NJ]) Posted on: Sep 6, 2020 10:10 AM
I am not having this problem. Everyone, all 6 units, had income in some way. One is empty because a couple left to buy some unfortunate person's house. If I had this issue I would simply treat it as a loan going forward and arrange for payment when the person is working again by adding to the rent payment. If the person left owing me months of rent I would pursue it in small claims or other court or try to get a loan document drawn up with scheduled payments to preserve the person's credit. A collection agency could also help. It's almost over. Vaccine will work. --71.104.xx.xxx
Don't be afraid (by Hoosier [IN]) Posted on: Sep 6, 2020 11:10 AM
Sid, I agree with most of what you say...but do you really think a judge would allow eviction for a hole in the wall?
For example, let's say you find such a hole and tell the tenant. They do everything right...they agree in writing to either fix it or allow a contractor to come in and fix it...and pay for it. In that case, would a judge allow you to evict?
You might say "how could they pay for it if they are not paying the rent"...but maybe they DO have the $80 to fix a hole in the wall but not the entire $800 in rent.
I'm in full agreement though that the key to managing this is having good, tight lease and enforcing policies. If nothing else, it will give leverage to make tenants follow the lease...something that is a challenge at all times. --99.92.xxx.xxx
Don't be afraid (by Jeffrey [VA]) Posted on: Sep 6, 2020 11:40 AM
I read how one attorney is actually cautioning tenants before signing the CDC form. Part of his take is that tenants must, among other things, prove they’ve lost income due to the pandemic and that they’ve applied for government assistance to pay rent...
Savvy landlords could dispute small details. If a tenant lies about any of the five requirements, they could be charged with perjury, which carries a penalty of up to five years in prison. --72.214.xx.xx
Don't be afraid (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Sep 6, 2020 12:00 PM
I have downloaded the form and I'm working on modifying it for future use. I haven't had this happen in a long time, but it still could: Tenant calls, can't pay rent this month for (insert reason here) and needs time.
My response may be something like, 'In order to accommodate your request, we will need you to complete our "Request for Extension of Time to Pay Rent" form (or some such title.)
Then they will have to answer most of the questions on the CDC form. I will of course modify the form so I am not plagiarizing it, but the questions are easily modified.
I will include on the form all of the agencies, local and otherwise, that help in such emergencies. Jeffrey has long advocated for this anyway, time I pulled that list together. --50.82.xxx.xxx
Don't be afraid (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Sep 6, 2020 12:36 PM
Jeffery, to quote.
"If a tenant lies about any of the five requirements, they could be charged with perjury, which carries a penalty of up to five years in prison".
Jeffery? can I stop laughing now? My planet is South Georgia and my clients aren't VA beach sunbathers or military. We deal with tenants that have 20 or 30 Antifa signs in the yard. I don't know about the majority of tenants out there but I would venture 99% will have no problem fabricating IN THERE MIND" THAT IT'S NOT REALLY LYING when you don't pay the rent-- and it's certainly not STEALING!
I spent 5 days in jail because a tenant told the judge i took the rent and she was evicted. It took 1 year and 8,000.00 to prove she was lying. She got 1 year probation..... my charges dismissed. Oh and no apology. --99.103.xxx.xxx
Don't be afraid (by DJ [VA]) Posted on: Sep 6, 2020 1:51 PM
Yeah, most tenants would probably not be scared of the perjury punishment - I would be shocked if a judge ever punished a tenant for lying.
I really liked the idea shared on the NREIA discussion online.
Don't sue for possession (eviction), just sue for debt owed.
At least you know where to serve them!
Garnish their wages/seize bank $, etc - while they still live there.
May be worth some consideration. --70.160.xxx.xxx
Don't be afraid (by Jeffrey [VA]) Posted on: Sep 6, 2020 2:15 PM
Myob, somehow I can hear you laughing all the way up here:)
As you probably know, my goal in sharing ideas is to offer as many as I can, so that landlords will have more than one way to survive and succeed. While that strategy may not work for most if not all of your residents, there may be a landlord who can benefit from it. By the way, the attorney who brought up the point is in Maryland.
One landlord after hearing the idea, said that he would start mentioning the penalty as part of his email signature when communicating with all his residents in hopes it may affect the future behavior of one or two of them.
Anyway, I'll continue to seek and share more ideas and hopefully we will hit on or more one that may help you with your rentals and clientele. --70.161.xxx.xxx
Don't be afraid (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2020 2:23 AM
Adapt or Die
0r Aglapt or Glie for those at Convention a few years ago!
MY proactive plan for Tuesday morning:
I am taking the CDC questionnaire and making my own affidavit TELLING the court the res has not complied with each point.
Filing that affidavit on Tuesday to attach to an existing eviction filing, hearing set for 9-14.
Overall I think screening is more important than ever and casual LLs will be hurt.
Don't be afraid (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2020 7:19 AM
Jeffery VA beach isn't that far so I'm sure you've heard me many times. To set the record straight -- if I wasn't learning here every day-- I wouldn't be here reading and posting.
When the newbie read some posts though they think gee this LL tenant thing is so easy.
Oath means nothing to so many and I'm not thinking tenants here. There are no consequences for being "found out" that you lied under oath. Just think of the politicians and FBI and Attorney General office staff under oath in front of congress. (Lets not think to hard)
I also printed off the "oath" as did WMH and as WMH is doing trying to figure out how to incorporate it into my move in lease as a signed page. --99.103.xxx.xxx
Don't be afraid (by Jeffrey [VA]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2020 9:24 AM
I too am trying to embrace and incorporate the CDC form into the lease and new resident orientation. Let's keep the landlording mastermind juices flowing.
Here's a thought. The CDC wording does not clearly define some of it's wording or phrases. Maybe the lease can be worded to show how the landlord and resident have interpreted and agree to it's meaning. So that the judge will have a clear or agreed upon basis to rule.
I believe Brad likes to talk about how his lease makes the job of his judge easier by utilizing this approach in other areas, like defining and agreement of minimal charges for damages at move-out.
For example one phrase in the CDC form: "I have used best efforts to obtain all available government assistance for rent or housing"
The wording in the lease may read something like:
Resident agrees that I will use my best efforts to obtain all available government assistance if I am unable to pay rent, meaning that at anytime I am unable to pay the rent for whatever reason and I am more than X days late, I will apply for assistance with at least 3 agencies or government assistance or rent relief programs within X days.
Remember, just thinking out loud for the moment...
Likewise with the phrase - "I am using best efforts to make timely partial payments..."
Seems like wording in the lease can be used to help define or give a minimum meaning to what "partial" payments that the landlord and resident can agree to. I am still thinking on this one.
To those reading, no need to jump on this post saying, doesn't matter what you put in the lease..., or will not work in my area blah, blah, blah.. I understand that it may nor work in all circumstances, but let's offer input on what MAY work in your circumstances.
I am just brainstorming here with other landlords who are looking for possible ways to utilize the form so it works for BOTH parties. And, I, like you, know that we should also run any thoughts (and suggestions from this board of advisers:) by an attorney in my area before implementing anything.
Okay, your turn....
Don't be afraid (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2020 10:56 AM
Resident agrees to supply to management and the court the list of agency's applied too.
Resident agrees to supply the last 3 pay checks (stubs) to management and the court for submission of rent deferment. (or something similar) we need to know that they have actually taken a hit.
When we offered to work with tenants at the beggining of this we required a letter from tenants employer showing a lay off or blocked hours. Only 1 in 5 did.
Since unemployment is auto deposited-- need to see the most recent bank statements as verification of loss of income.
Somehow all info supplied to CDC form fill out needs to be conveyed "AS REQUIRED" to submit form. --99.103.xxx.xxx
Don't be afraid (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2020 4:52 PM
I learn from here a lot. Thank you. --73.120.xx.xxx
Don't be afraid (by dan [OR]) Posted on: Sep 8, 2020 11:35 AM
Preemptive screening, is the very best policy and I agree with a couple of people that if you've done a good job screening and you weren't in a hurry, at this point, you're probably doing very well.
I have one vacant unit that I will not really rent right away.
Staying in control, is something that all landlords who care about their future. Should do.
Unless you've dealt with DEQ issues and spending hundreds of thousands of dollars or homeland security, I will say that the pandemic is a cakewalk.
It is definitely unfortunate for someone who has problem people as tenants.
Recently I received a call from a tenant of mine. Let me rephrase that of the trust that I am managing for!
They told me that they were going to pay the rent.
I said I'm sorry to hear that, after 9 years. If I tell the owners of the property. There is a very high likelihood that they will sell the property and God help you with with the new landlord/owner will do???
Do yourself a favor and look around at rents in the area! (I think after doing that, they made their decision and decided that what they had was pretty darn good)
Lo and behold, 10 days later I received the full rent!
Sometimes you can plan a worm in someone's head and it can be helpful.
I wish everyone good health and success,
Don't be afraid (by good landlord [CA]) Posted on: Sep 8, 2020 12:37 PM
Just be so so glad you are not in California.
They just passed the insane AB3088:
"protected time period" 3-1 to 8-31 and forms to serve.
"transition time period" 9/1 - 1/31/2021 and forms to serve.
Only 25% rent due monthly after 9/1 ; but they have until 1/31 to pay any money due in that period!!!!!
A useless declaration form that tenants sign saying covid issues - but has no teeth.
And ALL our past due rents are now treated as civil debt....removed evicting for non-payment of rent. Rent due is now off the books through March 2021!
We have to go small claims to get that "civil debt" money paid back......
THUS - I am going to be pursuing the strongest and most impactful methods of reporting the "entitled non-payer" ( I have only one thank god ) to insure the monies I am owed, if not paid, have the strongest NEGATIVE influence on their credit rating that I can pursue. I wish their was a " tenant debtors prison" website with a list of all the names of those who can, but do not pay. I fear taking the lowlifes who screwed other properties into my units when I have future vacancies. --69.181.xx.xxx
Don't be afraid (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Sep 9, 2020 3:19 PM
When there is pain somewhere - there is also opportunity.
If you are having a hard time finding opportunity, what you are really saying is that you are alright not growing more.
Growth can mean many things to different people. --24.101.xxx.xx
Don't be afraid (by David Etenburn [WA]) Posted on: Sep 12, 2020 11:02 PM
As a Notary Public who witnesses signatures on 30 or 40 real estate loans a month in Washington State, I’m finding more and more lenders are offering counseling to those who fall behind on their mortgage payments.
This counseling is not about helping people manage their money better as much as it is about finding out what has caused them to fall behind. These counselors work on finding the kind of assistance that would be available to these delinquent borrowers, based on their eligibility and circumstances.
Now, if the Real Estate lending institutions are willing to invest in counseling for their borrowers, why aren’t landlords willing to do the same for their tenants? In this day and age, with the threat of eviction being removed (temporarily or otherwise) this could be an alternative solution to the problem of delinquent rent. --73.109.xx.xxx
Don't be afraid (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Sep 13, 2020 5:43 AM
Mr Etenburn, I'm not spending 1 red cent hiring counselors for my tenants. --70.44.xxx.xx
Don't be afraid (by Jeffrey [VA]) Posted on: Sep 13, 2020 2:38 PM
NE, actually for some landlords who are about to throw in the towel or sell because they have no (or not enough) money coming in, Mr Etenburn's suggestion of working harder at helping residents figure out how to get financial assistance that may be available, is not a bad idea. It's really just an extension of the idea I've shared with landlords for years regarding helping your residents get connected to agencies who may be able to offer them help in paying the rent. --70.161.xxx.xxx
Don't be afraid (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Sep 13, 2020 3:43 PM
Jeffrey, I provide phone numbers to charities and would consider adding a financial counselor # to that, but I'm not paying for it. --174.198.x.xxx
Don't be afraid (by Jeffrey [VA]) Posted on: Sep 14, 2020 7:24 AM
Hmmmm. Let me think this through.... Resident owes me $7,000, or $10,000 or more from several months of non-payment. With the moratorium in place, this may go on for several more months.
Hmmmmm. Enter a sharp entrepreneur/counselor who may cost me a few hundred bucks. However, money is paid out only if counselor is actually able to help the resident get financial assistance that will be paid directly to the landlord.
Hmmmmmmm. Is such a scenario possible? If it is, should I continue to sit around and merely hope the resident will all of a sudden on their own figure out how to pay me? Because it's no way I am paying for it to help this resident out.....
Don't be afraid (by JKJ [MA]) Posted on: Sep 14, 2020 10:31 AM
we’re talking about 2 very different animals here. How much do the big lenders make a year in profits, how much do the big lenders loose a year in delinquent accounts? That vs how much the average mom&pop LL make a year in profits, and how much they loose to delinquent rents. We’re talking millions vs. thousands. --174.192.x.xxx
Don't be afraid (by Jeffrey [VA]) Posted on: Sep 15, 2020 8:43 AM
JKJ, I am here to provide food for thought and to offer to all, who are open to hear, different ways to survive and succeed. Take from the info what you will that may be of help to you.
All I know is got a check yesterday for $5,445 (covering several months past due rent for one renter) because I was willing to work closely with a local agency to help my resident get needed rental assistance (win-win). --70.161.xxx.xxx
Don't be afraid (by Laura [MD]) Posted on: Sep 15, 2020 4:39 PM
Strong discussions like this are why I come to the website.
My paradigm on this is changing. Folks pay debt collectors 25% to 40% to collect a debt. This counselor idea seem cheaper, and you don't have to get a judgement first. --108.56.xxx.xx
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