Separate the Water?
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Separate the Water? (by GKARL [PA]) Jul 27, 2020 5:00 PM
       Separate the Water? (by myob [GA]) Jul 27, 2020 5:18 PM
       Separate the Water? (by Richard [MI]) Jul 27, 2020 5:23 PM
       Separate the Water? (by Richard [MI]) Jul 27, 2020 5:23 PM
       Separate the Water? (by Richard [MI]) Jul 27, 2020 5:23 PM
       Separate the Water? (by GKARL [PA]) Jul 27, 2020 5:28 PM
       Separate the Water? (by GKARL [PA]) Jul 27, 2020 5:28 PM
       Separate the Water? (by JAC [OH]) Jul 27, 2020 5:32 PM
       Separate the Water? (by GKARL [PA]) Jul 27, 2020 5:37 PM
       Separate the Water? (by GKARL [PA]) Jul 27, 2020 5:38 PM
       Separate the Water? (by GKARL [PA]) Jul 27, 2020 5:38 PM
       Separate the Water? (by GKARL [PA]) Jul 27, 2020 5:38 PM
       Separate the Water? (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Jul 27, 2020 5:50 PM
       Separate the Water? (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Jul 27, 2020 5:51 PM
       Separate the Water? (by Steve [MA]) Jul 27, 2020 5:57 PM
       Separate the Water? (by GKARL [PA]) Jul 27, 2020 6:23 PM
       Separate the Water? (by GKARL [PA]) Jul 27, 2020 6:24 PM
       Separate the Water? (by MJ [PA]) Jul 27, 2020 8:18 PM
       Separate the Water? (by MJ [PA]) Jul 27, 2020 8:19 PM
       Separate the Water? (by MJ [PA]) Jul 27, 2020 8:19 PM
       Separate the Water? (by MJ [PA]) Jul 27, 2020 8:19 PM
       Separate the Water? (by 6x6 [TN]) Jul 27, 2020 9:36 PM
       Separate the Water? (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Jul 27, 2020 11:24 PM
       Separate the Water? (by WL [CA]) Jul 28, 2020 12:53 AM
       Separate the Water? (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Jul 28, 2020 12:54 AM
       Separate the Water? (by Hammer [TN]) Jul 28, 2020 9:55 AM
       Separate the Water? (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Jul 28, 2020 11:10 AM
       Separate the Water? (by razorback_tim [AR]) Jul 28, 2020 11:40 AM
       Separate the Water? (by R [OH]) Jul 28, 2020 6:37 PM
       Separate the Water? (by Nicole [PA]) Jul 28, 2020 7:01 PM
       Separate the Water? (by Steve [MA]) Jul 28, 2020 8:13 PM
       Separate the Water? (by M.C. [FL]) Aug 1, 2020 11:28 AM
       Separate the Water? (by GKARL [PA]) Aug 3, 2020 7:56 AM

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Separate the Water? (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 5:00 PM
Message:

I'm starting to the work on my seven unit. If you may recall, this is the place where the commercial office area will be converted into apartments. I have to bring in a new water line and a line for a sprinkler system. My local water company will handle bringing in the new lines. I have a choice of setting up a single meter in the building or putting in separate meters for each apartment. Is there any reason why I shouldn't separate? Incremental cost would be about $ 2000-$ 3000. I would not consider except that I have to bring in a new water line and since I have to do that, I figure I might as well separate it. Thoughts?

--70.158.xxx.xx




Separate the Water? (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 5:18 PM
Message:

do the separate meters. Way way to many stories about multi's with water problems. Are the Residents also responsible for usage? I hope. --99.103.xxx.xxx




Separate the Water? (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 5:23 PM
Message:

If you're going to have short term renters (airbnb, visiting nurses, etc) then I'd go with one meter and adjust the rent to cover costs.

If the apts will be month to month or year leasrs, definitely separate meters and let them pay.

Who knows what the next year brings and we don't want to get in a situation where we can't get rent, evict or do anything but still must pay. --24.180.xx.xx




Separate the Water? (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 5:23 PM
Message:

If you're going to have short term renters (airbnb, visiting nurses, etc) then I'd go with one meter and adjust the rent to cover costs.

If the apts will be month to month or year leasrs, definitely separate meters and let them pay.

Who knows what the next year brings and we don't want to get in a situation where we can't get rent, evict or do anything but still must pay. --24.180.xx.xx




Separate the Water? (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 5:23 PM
Message:

If you're going to have short term renters (airbnb, visiting nurses, etc) then I'd go with one meter and adjust the rent to cover costs.

If the apts will be month to month or year leasrs, definitely separate meters and let them pay.

Who knows what the next year brings and we don't want to get in a situation where we can't get rent, evict or do anything but still must pay. --24.180.xx.xx




Separate the Water? (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 5:28 PM
Message:

Also, the water bill right now is roughly $ 175 a quarter for the three existing units. I'm figuring that will double once I add the four new units. Is it worth separating at that low of a cost? My risk is a running toilet, but it's way cheaper to just swap out the flappers periodically. An alternative might be to submeter. Also, incremental cost is likely higher than 2000-3000 as the plumber would need to separate internally. --209.122.xx.xxx




Separate the Water? (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 5:28 PM
Message:

Also, the water bill right now is roughly $ 175 a quarter for the three existing units. I'm figuring that will double once I add the four new units. Is it worth separating at that low of a cost? My risk is a running toilet, but it's way cheaper to just swap out the flappers periodically. An alternative might be to submeter. Also, incremental cost is likely higher than 2000-3000 as the plumber would need to separate internally. --209.122.xx.xxx




Separate the Water? (by JAC [OH]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 5:32 PM
Message:

I doubt the value of separating. You can still charge per unit for water usage. Every building that I know around her does it and I know for a fact they are not separately metered. --72.49.xxx.xxx




Separate the Water? (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 5:37 PM
Message:

Also, the water bill right now is roughly $ 175 a quarter for the three existing units. I'm figuring that will double once I add the four new units. Is it worth separating at that low of a cost? My risk is a running toilet, but it's way cheaper to just swap out the flappers periodically. An alternative might be to submeter. Also, incremental cost is likely higher than 2000-3000 as the plumber would need to separate internally. --209.122.xx.xxx




Separate the Water? (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 5:38 PM
Message:

Also, the water bill right now is roughly $ 175 a quarter for the three existing units. I'm figuring that will double once I add the four new units. Is it worth separating at that low of a cost? My risk is a running toilet, but it's way cheaper to just swap out the flappers periodically. An alternative might be to submeter. Also, incremental cost is likely higher than 2000-3000 as the plumber would need to separate internally. --209.122.xx.xxx




Separate the Water? (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 5:38 PM
Message:

Also, the water bill right now is roughly $ 175 a quarter for the three existing units. I'm figuring that will double once I add the four new units. Is it worth separating at that low of a cost? My risk is a running toilet, but it's way cheaper to just swap out the flappers periodically. An alternative might be to submeter. Also, incremental cost is likely higher than 2000-3000 as the plumber would need to separate internally. --209.122.xx.xxx




Separate the Water? (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 5:38 PM
Message:

Also, the water bill right now is roughly $ 175 a quarter for the three existing units. I'm figuring that will double once I add the four new units. Is it worth separating at that low of a cost? My risk is a running toilet, but it's way cheaper to just swap out the flappers periodically. An alternative might be to submeter. Also, incremental cost is likely higher than 2000-3000 as the plumber would need to separate internally. --209.122.xx.xxx




Separate the Water? (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 5:50 PM
Message:

GKARL,

ALWAYS separate. ALWAYS. ALWAYS.

This will increase the value of your building when selling someday, easily offsetting the cost.

If you have an Airbnb or such you can simply pay that meter.

BRAD --73.102.xxx.xxx




Separate the Water? (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 5:51 PM
Message:

GKARL,

ALWAYS separate. ALWAYS. ALWAYS.

This will increase the value of your building when selling someday, easily offsetting the cost.

If you have an Airbnb or such simply pay that meter.

BRAD --73.102.xxx.xxx




Separate the Water? (by Steve [MA]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 5:57 PM
Message:

Even if you don't plan on having individual meters at this time, I highly recommend running separate H & C lines to each unit. This will make it easier to just swap a few pipes in the basement when & if you decide to sub meter the building. It shouldn't be too expensive especially if you use Pex.

Curious do you have to put sprinklers in? In MA we would be required to install a sprinkler system for a project like this. --71.174.xxx.xx




Separate the Water? (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 6:23 PM
Message:

Steve,

I have to put a sprinkler in the new construction area. Existing only gets inner connected smokes to the panel.

The ayes have it and I'm going to separate. This is one of those things "while you're in there, do it"

--209.122.xx.xxx




Separate the Water? (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 6:24 PM
Message:

Steve,

I have to put a sprinkler in the new construction area. Existing only gets inner connected smokes to the panel.

The ayes have it and I'm going to separate. This is one of those things "while you're in there, do it"

--209.122.xx.xxx




Separate the Water? (by MJ [PA]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 8:18 PM
Message:

I would check with the water company there. If they will put a lien on the property for unpaid bills, I would keep the water in my name. Here PA American does not do that so you can let tenants get accounts in their name.

--76.125.xxx.xxx




Separate the Water? (by MJ [PA]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 8:19 PM
Message:

I would check with the water company there. If they will put a lien on the property for unpaid bills, I would keep the water in my name. Here PA American does not do that so you can let tenants get accounts in their name.

--76.125.xxx.xxx




Separate the Water? (by MJ [PA]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 8:19 PM
Message:

I would check with the water company there. If they will put a lien on the property for unpaid bills, I would keep the water in my name. Here PA American does not do that so you can let tenants get accounts in their name.

--76.125.xxx.xxx




Separate the Water? (by MJ [PA]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 8:19 PM
Message:

I would check with the water company there. If they will put a lien on the property for unpaid bills, I would keep the water in my name. Here PA American does not do that so you can let tenants get accounts in their name.

--76.125.xxx.xxx




Separate the Water? (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 9:36 PM
Message:

I agree with Richard.

Too many problems with water usage and the LL paying have been talked about on here. --73.120.xx.xxx




Separate the Water? (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Jul 27, 2020 11:24 PM
Message:

Consider installing commercial pex piping where labour and material costs are less then copper. Uponor or Rehau are two common brands. It is even possible if code allows to install sprinklers in rental units as pex is easy to work with. For toilets consider not using flapper type toilets. The Niagara flapper less toilet uses a bucket which tilts where no flapper is used. All faucets use only ceramic disc type which do not use washers. Install low flow aerators along low flow air mixing shower heads. View some videos about Niagara flapper less toilets on You Tube. --147.194.xxx.xx




Separate the Water? (by WL [CA]) Posted on: Jul 28, 2020 12:53 AM
Message:

Something to think about - I had an eviction where the T left the water running in the bathtub for 3 weeks as retaliation for being evicted. If you separate out the meters, it is easier to argue to the judge that he should be liable for the bill, since it is connected to his unit. In CA, you are not responsible for the bill if it is in his name, which deters wasting water. The eviction judge in my case added the additional water usage onto the money judgment. --201.140.xxx.xx




Separate the Water? (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Jul 28, 2020 12:54 AM
Message:

GKARL,

ALWAYS separate. ALWAYS. ALWAYS.

This will increase the value of your building when selling someday, easily offsetting the cost.

The amount you save will more than pay for it.

If you have an Airbnb or such simply pay that meter.

When I did my triplex, my monthly bill was $200. So I reduced the rent by $30 x 3 = $90, and alerted the residents to get service in their own name.

$200 - 90 = $110 per month increase in MY income. This alone offset the cost quickly.

6 months later I talked to the water util ladies. Seems the entire building was now only using $150 of water because they were watching their consumption!

A year later the water part of the bill went up XX% and the sewer portion of the bill DOUBLED!

We've had several water/sewer increases since then. Not my problem any more!

NEVER pay their utils!

BRAD

--73.102.xxx.xxx




Separate the Water? (by Hammer [TN]) Posted on: Jul 28, 2020 9:55 AM
Message:

Brad is right on!

When calculating the sales price of a commercial property, cap rate NOI and other factors become very important.

Adding the meters and having the T's pay their own water/power is a one time cost that is quickly offset by the lower expenses. That additional cash flow continues after the expense of installing meters is covered.

So your property is more profitable which is important as commercial investment is based on ROI and income streams.

More profit means you can charge a higher price and the buyers will still be getting the ROI they want. --137.119.xxx.xx




Separate the Water? (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Jul 28, 2020 11:10 AM
Message:

Problem tenants usually have unpaid utility bills where they look for all inclusive rental units. The lower the rent the more demand where if the utility belongs to a tenant they are going to look after it like it is their own. While the capital cost is expensive upfront over time it is paid for in lower vacancies, less problem tenants and more efficient building operation. With commercial pex such Uponor or Rehau piping materials and labour is less. Copper piping is expensive and labour intensive. Water and sewage charges continue to go up where reduced consumption is the only way to go. --147.194.xxx.xx




Separate the Water? (by razorback_tim [AR]) Posted on: Jul 28, 2020 11:40 AM
Message:

I would definitely separate them. I don't want any part of bills included. I've done that before and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't, there's not really much you can do about it unless you can prove a specific lease violation related to utility usage.

Another thing to consider is resell. You will likely have an easier sell when you are ready to liquidate if the utilities are separated. --70.178.x.xx




Separate the Water? (by R [OH]) Posted on: Jul 28, 2020 6:37 PM
Message:

Hi GKarl,

Definitely separate the water. I have a submetering company that bills the tenants and the tenants pay me for the water usage. The water service remains in my name because that is how it is in my county but at least the tenants can see their usage and no arguing about which tenant used more water (these are doubles). Good luck. --12.47.xxx.xx




Separate the Water? (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: Jul 28, 2020 7:01 PM
Message:

how expensive is your water service? here, it's cheap. My personal home is never more than $30 a month. My four unit is about $80. Separating out the meter would never pay for the interior re-plumbing on my building. In my four unit, they all pay me $50 a month towards water/trash/sewer.

also to consider is this municipal water service? if so, the bill will remain in your name, no matter what you do. Tenants can be accountable to YOU for their usage but you will pay the city/township no matter what the tenants do or don't do. --72.70.xxx.xxx




Separate the Water? (by Steve [MA]) Posted on: Jul 28, 2020 8:13 PM
Message:

Nicole [PA], on average my 2/3 bedroom units work out to approximately $900.00 per unit per year for water & sewer charges. My own SFD with 3 baths, outside use, etc runs about $1,200.00 a year for W&S. These are based on last years rates which I'm sure will be going up soon. --71.174.xxx.xx




Separate the Water? (by M.C. [FL]) Posted on: Aug 1, 2020 11:28 AM
Message:

Important!!!Read my post under PITA August 1, 2020 to see the reason why. --172.58.xxx.xxx




Separate the Water? (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Aug 3, 2020 7:56 AM
Message:

M.C., I read that string and that settles it. I'm installing separate meters. One thing I hadn't figured in is deliberate tenant waste. --172.58.xxx.xxx



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