TOTALLY OT: School Open (by WMH [NC]) Jul 14, 2020 4:13 PM|
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Allym [NJ]) Jul 14, 2020 4:57 PM
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Bill [NC]) Jul 14, 2020 5:11 PM
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by MikeA [TX]) Jul 14, 2020 5:14 PM
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TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Richard [MI]) Jul 14, 2020 5:49 PM
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TOTALLY OT: School Open (by WMH [NC]) Jul 14, 2020 6:05 PM
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TOTALLY OT: School Open (by NE [PA]) Jul 14, 2020 6:21 PM
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TOTALLY OT: School Open (by JKJ [MA]) Jul 14, 2020 7:11 PM
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Sorta Blonde [CA]) Jul 14, 2020 7:28 PM
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TOTALLY OT: School Open (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Jul 15, 2020 2:23 AM
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TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Richard [MI]) Jul 15, 2020 8:46 AM
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by NE [PA]) Jul 15, 2020 8:55 AM
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TOTALLY OT: School Open (by S i d [MO]) Jul 15, 2020 9:00 AM
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by WMH [NC]) Jul 15, 2020 9:07 AM
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by WMH [NC]) Jul 15, 2020 9:10 AM
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Allym [NJ]) Jul 15, 2020 11:46 AM
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Sorta Blonde [CA]) Jul 15, 2020 12:16 PM
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by JKJ [MA]) Jul 15, 2020 3:10 PM
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Busy [WI]) Jul 15, 2020 4:15 PM
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by WMH [NC]) Jul 15, 2020 4:33 PM
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by 6x6 [TN]) Jul 15, 2020 4:54 PM
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Allym [NJ]) Jul 15, 2020 5:53 PM
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by 6x6 [TN]) Jul 15, 2020 6:06 PM
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by JKJ [MA]) Jul 15, 2020 6:45 PM
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by on [WI]) Jul 15, 2020 7:23 PM
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TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Sorta Blonde [CA]) Jul 15, 2020 7:40 PM
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by on [WI]) Jul 15, 2020 7:44 PM
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Allym [NJ]) Jul 15, 2020 8:10 PM
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TOTALLY OT: School Open (by 6x6 [TN]) Jul 15, 2020 9:37 PM
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TOTALLY OT: School Open (by 6x6 [TN]) Jul 15, 2020 10:21 PM
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TOTALLY OT: School Open (by on [WI]) Jul 15, 2020 11:28 PM
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TOTALLY OT: School Open (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2020 4:13 PM
I will just leave this here:
Written by a dad in Fairfax County Virginia (My 15-year old DGD's school district. And also my DGD and DIL, who are teachers.)
To our fellow FCPS families, this is it gang, 5 days until the 2 days in school vs. 100% virtual decision vote. Let’s talk it out, in my traditional mammoth TL/DR form.
Like all of you, I’ve seen my feed become a flood of anxiety and faux expertise. You’ll get no presumption of expertise here. This is how I am looking at and considering this issue and the positions people have taken in my feed and in the hundred or so FCPS discussion groups that have popped up. The lead comments in quotes are taken directly from my feed and those boards. Sometimes I try to rationalize them. Sometimes I’m just punching back at the void.
Full disclosure, we initially chose the 2 days option and are now having serious reservations. As I consider the positions and arguments I see in my feed, these are where my mind goes. Of note, when I started working on this piece at 12:19 PM today the COVID death tally in the United States stood at 133,420.
*****“My kids want to go back to school.”*****
I challenge that position. I believe what the kids desire is more abstract. I believe what they want is a return to normalcy. They want their idea of yesterday. And yesterday isn’t on the menu.
*****“I want my child in school so they can socialize.”*****
This was the principle reason for our 2 days decision. As I think more on it though, what do we think ‘social’ will look like? There aren’t going to be any lunch table groups, any lockers, any recess games, any study halls, any sitting next to friends, any talking to people in the hallway, any dances. All of that is off the menu. So, when we say that we want the kids to benefit from the social experience, what are we deluding ourselves into thinking in-building socialization will actually look like in the Fall?
*****“My kid is going to be left behind.”*****
Left behind who? The entire country is grappling with the same issue, leaving all children in the same quagmire. Who exactly would they be behind? I believe the rhetorical answer to that is “They’ll be behind where they should be,” to which I’ll counter that “where they should be” is a fictional goal post that we as a society have taken as gospel because it maps to standardized tests which are used to grade schools and counties as they chase funding.
*****“Classrooms are safe.”*****
At the current distancing guidelines from FCPS middle and high schools would have no more than 12 people (teachers + students) in a classroom (I acknowledge this number may change as FCPS considers the Commonwealth’s 3 ft with a mask vs. 6 ft position, noting that FCPS is all mask regardless of the distance). For the purpose of this discussion we’ll say classes run 45 minutes.
I posed the following question to 40 people today, representing professional and management roles in corporations, government agencies, and military commands: “Would your company or command have a 12 person, 45 minute meeting in a conference room?”
100% of them said no, they would not. These are some of their answers:
“No. Until further notice we are on Zoom.”
“(Our company) doesn’t allow us in (company space).”
“Oh h*ll no.”
“No absolutely not.”
“Is there a percentage lower than zero?”
“Something of that size would be virtual.”
We do not even consider putting our office employees into the same situation we are contemplating putting our children into. And let’s drive this point home: there are instances here when commanding officers will not put soldiers, ACTUAL SOLDIERS, into the kind of indoor environment we’re contemplating for our children. For me this is as close to a ‘kill shot’ argument as there is in this entire debate. How do we work from home because buildings with recycled air are not safe, because we don’t trust other people to not spread the virus, and then with the same breath send our children into buildings?
*****“Children only die .0016 of the time.”*****
First, conceding we’re an increasingly morally bankrupt society, but when did we start talking about children’s lives, or anyone’s lives, like this? This how the villain in movies talks about mortality, usually 10-15 minutes before the good guy kills him.
If you’re in this camp, and I acknowledge that many, many people are, I’m asking you to consider that number from a slightly different angle.
FCPS has 189,000 children. .0016 of that is 302. 302 dead children are the Calvary Hill you’re erecting your argument on. So, let’s agree to do this: stop presenting this as a data point. If this is your argument, I challenge you to have courage equal to your conviction. Go ahead, plant a flag on the internet and say, “Only 302 children will die.” No one will. That’s the kind action on social media that gets you fired from your job. And I trust our social media enclave isn’t so careless and irresponsible with life that it would even, for even a millisecond, enter any of your minds to make such an argument.
Considered another way: You’re presented with a bag with 189,000 $1 bills. You’re told that in the bag are 302 random bills, they look and feel just like all the others, but each one of those bills will kill you. Do you take the money out of the bag?
Same argument, applied to the 12,487 teachers in FCPS (per Wikipedia), using the ‘children’s multiplier’ of .0016 (all of us understanding the adult mortality rate is higher). That’s 20 teachers. That’s the number you’re talking about. It’s very easy to sit behind a keyboard and diminish and dismiss the risk you’re advocating other people assume. Take a breath and think about that.
If you want to advocate for 2 days a week, look, I’m looking for someone to convince me. But please, for the love of God, drop things like this from your argument. Because the people I know who’ve said things like this, I know they’re better people than this. They’re good people under incredible stress who let things slip out as their frustration boils over. So, please do the right thing and move on from this, because one potential outcome is that one day, you’re going to have to stand in front of St. Peter and answer for this, and that’s not going to be conversation you enjoy.
*****“Hardly any kids get COVID.”*****
(Deep sigh) Yes, that is statistically true as of this writing. But it is a cherry-picked argument because you’re leaving out an important piece.
One can reasonably argue that, due to the school closures in March, children have had the least EXPOSURE to COVID. In other words, closing schools was the one pandemic mitigation action we took that worked. There can be no discussion of the rate of diagnosis within children without also acknowledging they were among our fastest and most quarantined people. Put another way, you cannot cite the effect without acknowledging the cause.
*****“The flu kills more people every year.”*****
(Deep sigh). First of all, no, it doesn’t. Per the CDC, United States flu deaths average 20,000 annually. COVID, when I start writing here today, has killed 133,420 in six months.
And when you mention the flu, do you mean the disease that, if you’re suspected of having it, everyone, literally everyone in the country tells you stay the f- away from other people? You mean the one where parents are pretty sure their kids have it but send them to school anyway because they have a meeting that day, the one that every year causes massive f-ing outbreaks in schools because schools are petri dishes and it causes kids to miss weeks of school and leaves them out of sports and band for a month? That one? Because you’re right - the flu kills people every year. It does, but you’re ignoring the why. It’s because there are people who are a--holes who don’t care about infecting other people. In that regard it’s a perfect comparison to COVID.
*****“Almost everyone recovers.”*****
You’re confusing “release from the hospital” and “no longer infected” with “recovered.” I’m fortunate to only know two people who have had COVID. One my age and one my dad’s age. The one my age described it as “absolute hell” and although no longer infected cannot breathe right. The one my dad’s age was in the hospital for 13 weeks, had to have a trach ring put in because she could no longer be on a ventilator, and upon finally getting home and being faced with incalculable time in rehab told my mother, “I wish I had died.”
While I’m making every effort to reach objectivity, on this particular point, you don’t know what the f- you’re talking about.
*****“If people get sick, they get sick.”*****
First, you mistyped. What you intended to say was “If OTHER people get sick, they get sick.” And shame on you.
*****“I’m not going to live my life in fear.”*****
You already live your life in fear. For your health, your family’s health, your job, your retirement, terrorists, extremists, one political party or the other being in power, the new neighbors, an unexpected home repair, the next sunrise. What you meant to say was, “I’m not prepared to add ANOTHER fear,” and I’ve got news for you: that ship has sailed. It’s too late. There are two kinds of people, and only two: those that admit they’re afraid, and those that are lying to themselves about it.
As to the fear argument, fear is the reason you wait up when your kids stay out late, it’s the reason you tell your kids not to dive in the shallow water, to look both ways before crossing the road. Fear is the respect for the wide world that we teach our children. Except in this instance, for reasons no one has been able to explain to me yet.
*****“FCPS leadership sucks.”*****
I will summarize my view of the School Board thusly: if the 12 of you aren’t getting into a room together because it represents a risk, don’t tell me it’s OK for our kids. I understand your arguments, that we need the 2 days option for parents who can’t work from home, kids who don’t have internet or computer access, kids who needs meals from the school system, kids who need extra support to learn, and most tragically for kids who are at greater risk of abuse by being home. All very serious, all very real issues, all heartbreaking. No argument.
But you must first lead by example. Because you’re failing when it comes to optics. All your meetings are online. What our children see is all of you on a Zoom telling them it’s OK for them to be exactly where you aren’t. I understand you’re not PR people, but you really should think about hiring some.
*****“I talked it over with my kids.”*****
Let’s put aside for a moment the concept of adults effectively deferring this decision to children, the same children who will continue to stuff things into a full trash can rather than change it out. Yes, those hygienic children.
Listen, my 15 year old daughter wants a sport car, which she’s not getting next year because it would be dangerous to her and to others. Those kinds of decisions are our job. We step in and decide as parents, we don’t let them expose themselves to risks because their still developing and screen addicted brains narrow their understanding of cause and effect.
We as parents and adults serve to make difficult decisions. Sometimes those are in the form of lessons, where we try to steer kids towards the right answer and are willing to let them make a mistake in the hopes of teaching better decision making the next time around. This is not one of those moments. The stakes are too high for that. This is a “the adults are talking” moment. Kids are not mature enough for this moment. That is not an attack on your child. It is a broad statement about all children. It is true of your children and it was true when we were children. We need to be doing that thinking here, and “Johnny wants to see Bobby at school” cannot be the prevailing element in the equation.
*****“The teachers need to do their job.”*****
How is it that the same society which abruptly shifted to virtual students only three months ago, and offered glowing endorsements of teachers stating, “we finally understand how difficult your job is,” has now shifted to “screw you, do your job.” There are myriad problems with that position but for the purposes of this piece let’s simply go with, “You’re not looking for a teacher, you’re looking for the babysitter you feel your property tax payment entitles you to.”
*****“Teachers have a greater chance to being killed by a car than they do of dying from COVID.”*****
(Eye roll) Per the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), the U.S. see approximately 36,000 auto fatalities a year. Again, there have been 133,420 COVID deaths in the United States through 12:09 July 10, 2020. So no, they do not have a great chance of being killed in a car accident.
And, if you want to take the actual environment into consideration, the odds of a teacher being killed in a car accident in their classroom, you know, the environment we’re actually talking about, that’s right around 0%.
*****“If the grocery store workers can be onsite what are the teachers afraid of?”*****
(Deep breath) A grocery store worker, who absolutely risks exposure, has either six feet of space or a plexiglass shield between them and individual adult customers who can grasp their own mortality whose transactions can be completed in moments, in a 40,000 SF space.
A teacher is with 11 ‘customers’ who have not an inkling what mortality is, for 45 minutes, in a 675 SF space, six times a day.
*****“Teachers are choosing remote because they don’t want to work.”*****
(Deep breaths) Many teachers are opting to be remote. That is not a vacation. They’re requesting to do their job at a safer site. Just like many, many people who work in buildings with recycled air have done. And likely the building you’re not going into has a newer and better serviced air system than our schools.
Of greater interest to me is the number of teachers choosing the 100% virtual option for their children. The people who spend the most time in the buildings are the same ones electing not to send their children into those buildings. That’s something I pay attention to.
*****“I wasn’t prepared to be a parent 24/7” and “I just need a break.”*****
I truly, deeply respect that honesty. Truth be told, both arguments have crossed my mind. Pre COVID, I routinely worked from home 1 – 2 days a week. The solace was nice. When I was in the office, I had an actual office, a room with a door I could close, where I could focus. During the quarantine that hasn’t always been the case. I’ve been frustrated, I’ve been short, I’ve gone to just take a drive and get the hell away for a moment and been disgusted when one of the kids sees me and asks me to come for a ride, robbing me of those minutes of silence. You want to hear silence. I get it. I really, really do.
Here’s another version of that, admittedly extreme. What if one of our kids becomes one of the 302? What’s that silence going to sound like? What if you have one of those matted frames where you add the kid’s school picture every year? What if you don’t get to finish the pictures?
*****“What does your gut tell you to do?”*****
Shawn and I have talked ad infinitum about all of these and other points. Two days ago, at mid-discussion I said, “Stop, right now, gut answer, what is it,” and we both said, “virtual.”
A lot of the arguments I hear people making for the 2 days sound like we’re trying to talk ourselves into ignoring our instincts, they are almost exclusively, “We’re doing 2 days, but…”. There’s a fantastic book by Gavin de Becker, The Gift of Fear, which I’ll minimize for you thusly: your gut instinct is a hardwired part of your brain and you should listen to it. In the introduction he talks about elevators, and how, of all living things, humans are the only ones that would voluntarily get into a soundproof steel box with a potential predator just so they could skip a flight of stairs.
I keep thinking that the 2 days option is the soundproof steel box. I welcome, beg, anyone to convince me otherwise.
At the time I started writing at 12:09 PM, 133,420 Americans had died from COVID. Upon completing this draft at 7:04 PM, that number rose to 133,940.
520 Americans died of COVID while I was working on this. In seven hours.
The length of a school day.
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Allym [NJ]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2020 4:57 PM
Brilliant guy. And he's right. With ultraviolet far uv light and negative pressure it could work but those two things are not there. How about individual space helmets with an oxygen generator or a little tank? I meant to make my self one by now. My cousin can refill the oxygen as he has scuba license to dispense. It's so hard to get people's attention.
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Bill [NC]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2020 5:11 PM
Keep the schools closed. We will always need people to do the menial jobs. --75.138.xxx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2020 5:14 PM
That's one person's perspective, we each have our own bias. Let each family choose what they think best based on their own values and without condemnation for their views. I see numerous red flags here, it starts off with a tone of lets have a discussion and moves to pressing a personal agenda and finally to biased shaming. That's not going to enable the open discussion, but I suspect the writer didn't go into this with an open mind. Rather, a thinly veiled "change my mind if you can" (but you really can't) approach. It reminds me of how an argumentative applicant tries to badger me into seeing it their way, never works people just shut down and write it off as another biased opinion.
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2020 5:22 PM
We are pulling our kids out of school. Not due to fear of Covid, but due to the unwillingness to subject them to a learning environment fueled by the new abnormal policies. We also fear our kids getting a teacher who is a germaphobe super-masker who treats all of their students like lepers. Constant sanitizing and excessive worry.
No thanks. Not interested.
Not too mention the new level of teasing that is bound to come from mask shaming with other kids and my tendency to go against the grain and tell my kids not to wear them and not to back down if forced. And to tell the faculty "no thanks".
Our district is at 20% pulling students already without any official release of how the new abnormal is going to be rolled out here soon. I expect that number to sky rocket! We are already networking with other parents to continue normal life outside of school. Thank God we're not alone in this thinking!
I was reading a few days ago that one district in Fort Worth TX is already at 40% pulling students before official policies are released. Good!!! --50.32.xxx.xx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Paulio [PA]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2020 5:32 PM
MikeA nailed it. --174.249.xx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2020 5:49 PM
I think it's easy for many to construct scenarios that lead to the conclusions they want. Using that "what if" thinking, I could say what if the moon came out of orbit and plowed into the earth?
All these different possibilities put things into the calculations and leave things out. Each person looks at what is presented and makes their own decision based on what they figure the risk to be. And that's fine.
They can do what they want, I'll do what I think is realistic.
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by JKJ [MA]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2020 5:58 PM
Yup, I agree with MikeA too. Ally, Is love to hear your thoughts on how you propose “individual space helmets with an oxygen generator or a little tank” would work with children in a classroom setting?? --72.93.xxx.xx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by JAC [OH]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2020 6:02 PM
Not sure what you think open discussion is going to accomplish. Debating the issue of masks and social distancing is no different than the current approach of ignoring the problem which has allowed it to get out of control. Perhaps if you had listened to the science when it mattered....
NE we won't miss your participation. It will be safer without you. --72.49.xxx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2020 6:05 PM
Never been a huge fan of public schooling, so maybe this a blessing in disguise? --50.82.xxx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Sorta Blonde [CA]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2020 6:15 PM
As a retired high school teacher, all I can say is Thank You for telling it like it might be! I wouldn't go back into a classroom right now for anything. Not scared, just don't want to put kids and teachers in unnecessary danger. Lessons can be done on computer if the teachers have some new training and the parents support the efforts at the home. I'm very familiar with this type of teaching and it works if everyone supports it. Such scary times, No school starting here for now although they announced it would and then changed their minds, thank goodness for some logical thinking. All kids will be provided with computers and internet access, most likely at no charge, and once going, it will work well. Never will replace 'normal' school, but someday, we will hopefully be back to 'normal' whatever that may be. --72.199.xx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2020 6:21 PM
Bye JAC. My kids will be better off than the poor kids forced into a "don't touch me", "eww, he sneezed" bizarre form of germ free solitary confinement.
My wife has a masters degree in early childhood education and is beside herself with the new ways the school is pushing out the structure of classrooms and learning. She was throwing out all these years technical terms and I told her she didn't have to convince me. She said the NEGATIVE impacts on development are substantial and after a long enough timeline may be irreversible with the real young. --50.32.xxx.xx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2020 6:31 PM
WMH, thank you for sharing. Please do not take offense to my post. It is meant to be serious humor. I do feel this way but I respect that others have there own opinions. I also realize that I do not have kids so I do not have that experience.
"My kid is going to be left behind."
Been there, done that. Look at me. Nothing wrong with me, Right!?
I think this is going to effect these kids. They need a teacher in school with tools for the job and they need to learn to socialize, trust me.
"Classrooms are safe"
Probably just as safe as going to the store or having that lemonade stand or family members visiting who have been out and about, probably at home depot and the gas station.
"“Children only die .0016 of the time"
Well, keep your kids at home then and see how well that works out for them in life. I see poster children.
“Almost everyone recovers.”
This is true. They do. Some are having complications from being on that lovely ventilator. Good idea Doc.
“If people get sick, they get sick.”
This is the ecosystem. You are not going to stop it. I wonder if this guy supports MAD or any other organization that can change things.
“I’m not going to live my life in fear.”
This guy is already living in fear and teaching his kids to fear life events. How is that for the kids health? I think this guy wants everyone else to feel his fear.
“I talked it over with my kids.”
It is not a bad idea to talk to your kids about things, in fact it is good, but, do not teach them to fear everything.
“The teachers need to do their job.”
Well, they are getting paid. That being said, they have been trying to figure things out and some have been teaching on public tv, which I try to watch some of, thank you teachers, and others have videos online and virtual classes so, they are doing there job. It is even helping some adults.
“I wasn’t prepared to be a parent 24/7” and “I just need a break.”
Then don't have kids! Parenting is a 24/7 job if you are a good parent. Good luck with that.
“What does your gut tell you to do?”
Don't panic and quit trying to spread your fear.
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by JKJ [MA]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2020 7:11 PM
Yup, it’s so simple isn’t it! Just keep the kids home, give em a computer, a little effort on the parents side, some retraining on the school side.....bingo problem solved. What about young children, what are the families that have 2 working parents supposed to do, or a single parent that has to work, what do these people do. I guess they could pay for childcare, wait, if teachers and students shouldn’t be put in unnecessary danger, surely childcare workers and kids in childcare shouldn’t be put in that situation either. So I guess hope that there are grandparents that can watch them, oh wait, most grandparents are in the high risk group right? Oh well, maybe an aunt, uncle, or family friend can watch them, then after the parents have worked all day, picked up the kids, made and cleaned up dinner, and dealt with everything else a person deals with daily, they can then sit down at 6:00 or 7:00 pm and start the daily fight to get the kids to do their schoolwork until what, midnight, 1:00 am. But wait a minute, kids need at least 10 to 12 hours of sleep right, that’s what the professionals have been saying, so that won’t work because they need to get up at 5:30 or 6:00 am to get dressed, eat breakfast, clean up from breakfast, and get them out the door and dropped off so the parent is on time to work and can keep their job! It’s not so simple, a vast majority of families now have both parents working. I’m not saying send them back to school like “business as usual”, but just saying “keep them home, online learning is the best approach for now” isn’t the answer either. As MikeA said, “ Let each family choose what they think best based on their own values and without condemnation for their views” and teachers need to get back to work, just like everybody else that cannot work from home. --72.93.xxx.xx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Sorta Blonde [CA]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2020 7:28 PM
Agreed JKJ, that distance learning isn't the final answer, but for now it's what we have. Each school district will determine what is best for them. San Diego, where our 'positive' and 'death' rates are going sky high due to reopening indoor activities too soon, decided not to open schools right now until things change. It won't be forever, but nobody can say how long this Pandemic will last. The Spanish Flu Pandemic of 1918 lasted over 2 years. We might or might not have the same problem. Wish this was all just a bad dream but since I personally knew someone who died from Covid in March, it's all very real and very scary. --72.199.xx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2020 8:52 PM
Talk about ignoring the science. Holy mackerel! How come all of these other countries can so successfully reopen schools, but we cannot because, oh, the virus rate will soar. Ummm... children under ten are much less likely to catch or transmit the virus. Scientists know this already.
Families with a single parent, or a lower income couple are more likely to be struggling financially because of the lack of ‘free child care’ that school provides. I use that term because it gets thrown around at other times. That 9-4 time period that kids are in school makes a great difference in family finances.
Teachers with young children will be greatest hit, as they will be expected to return to work, but now they have to find daycare, when before they didn’t, as the schedules matched up perfectly. That is why many parents went into teaching instead of to the more lucrative business world. Parents with any jobs outside of education already had daycare plans for summer and for the break periods.
I keep hearing opinion pieces talking about children transmitting the virus to older persons, but when I do any internet searches about the rates of that, I keep seeing different scholarly sources reporting that children under ten generally do not have the receptors in their lungs to which the virus attaches, transmission from young children would not be likely, and the statistics bears that out.
So, getting the elementary kids back to school is, to my way of thinking, the smart way to reopen more of our economy.
We are social beings. Being isolated leads to depression, or furthers depression. Keeping the bulk of kids isolated is a social experiment that we may well regret. --70.92.xxx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2020 11:30 PM
If my children stay home, and the schools are vacant, I expect some of my property tax dollars to stay at home as well. Surely unattended schools are cheaper to run that attended schools.
I suspect some cities are seeing this as a cash cow opportunity, and I'm sure the teacher's union sees the opportunity here too.
Given those facts, it makes it hard to believe the "facts" we're being presented. --108.69.xxx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Smokowna [MD]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 12:05 AM
I tried my best to read most of this. I didn't read all of the original post, for the same reason I don't listen to the news.
I may need to turn the radio on and find out what is happening. I thought people got bored and the country opened up for business again.
I've gotten much more accomplished knowing that the little white cars are not out enforcing my teni's safety rights. I can actually work on projects and focus not on paperwork but hammers and nails.
In what I read above I saw a few references to parents relying on the school system to be their baby sitters. This is very very very bad. Lets hope most people don't approach life that way.
The post was marked OT, however what is outlined above is an indicator to the type of teni we will all need to contend with in future years. No wonder most young teni struggle with simply finances these days - imagine what is coming down the pipeline.
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 2:23 AM
Thanks for posting this.
My OT reply MY personal answer: God is in charge...of everything. Only one other time is the history of the world did God move His mighty hand across the entire globe - Noah’s flood.
Our society has become very institutionalized.
The virus forced is to question those institutions. Adaptations tend to go back to God’s plan for families such as parents nurturing their own, preparing meals in the home...
People are re-examining what is important. Family values are being renewed.
Depending on minimum wage workers to raise your kids? Gone.
Parents are learning how to care for their own children rather than daycare.
“Building-ized” churches are learning how to serve outside their building.
Idolize pro sports?Gone.
Old boring teaching techniques? Gone.
Teachers are learning to use their skills thru technology.
Just my 2 cents.
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by LindaJ [NY]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 8:33 AM
It is a tough decision to make and I think it needs to be a more localized decision. Maybe the requirements of the schools need to be changed/relaxed and focus more on the getting the needed outcome. In NY, schools have to have 180 days of student attendance to get state money.
I go back and forth on this, and I think the elementary grades need to treated differently than the upper grades. Full disclosure, husband is a high school teacher. In the last few months of school, there was a big drop in the teenagers that viewed the online discussions. Of course the final tests were eliminated and it was a complete or incomplete grade. The motivated kids were there learning. The ones that needed to be motivated by the teacher were MIA. They were out on the streets playing with their friends. BUT we can't separate kids based on their motivation and learning ability unless they fall into the at risk, get special treatment, needs lots of help.
Parental involvement is so important, even before this virus. Parents need to expect, require and foster the learning environment. Yes, you have to be the parent! Yes, it is hard. But turn the TV off, have dinner together and talk about how important school is. Do things that are a learning experience. (Lets go out and catch some bugs, look up what they are) One of the good things I see from this is families eating together, not running to after school activities and sports just to keep doing something. There is much to be learned by spending time with yourself, reading, dreaming, fantasizing.
Yes, parents are working and if they are working from home, that does not make them or really allow them to be teachers and disciplinarians while they are working. Especially with the younger kids, they need the attention of an adult most of the time, they need a structured day. They can't be left at home if an the parent has to go to work. Most parents are not equipped to do formal lessons, and even I (great at math) had a hard time understanding how they were teaching my child the math skills because I learned to do it differently.
As the older spouse of an older teacher, I have concerns about teacher's exposure and health in all this as well. There are plenty of teachers with health risks that should not be exposed to going back to school. There are plenty of parents who could be affected by children being exposed.
So my opinion - we do need to find a way to get the younger kids back to a school learning environment. They can be more isolated by classroom, limiting the exposure to only those same kids. Maybe not this month or next, but as soon as they can. We can be a little more flexible in the older students, coming in for lab work, or a couple of times a week to meet with the teacher, but if they do lectures online they NEED to be online at that time. They need to be tested on what they learn, they need to be held accountable.
It will be harder on teachers, in person teaching allows them to recognize students that aren't getting it, or are goofing off. It will be harder on students, they will need be doing work. Yes, socialization will be limited, but with video chat, text etc, there is more than years ago, (when we took the long corded phone into the closet to have a private conversation and had a time limit so others could call).
We need to think outside the box, we need to take some chances, but as we should with everything we do, we need to understand the risk (as we can calculate them today with the information we have and as it changes recalculate). Life is not without risk, but chose a less risky path.
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 8:46 AM
After I reread this piece I've come to the conclusion that it is a constructed piece. It's done deliberately to try and convince some of the readers to just "do what your betters tell you. We're better and smarter than you and you're stupid and don't care if you don't obey".
It implies that anyone with a different opinion is (fill in negative description here) as well as a person who callously just doesn't care if kids and people die. The article only selects the things and slant that the writer has apparently pre chosen.
If facts contradict what the writer thinks, they are either left out or said to be lies. Conclusions are presented as "obvious truths" and anyone questioning them is derided. The hashtag 302 thing at the end further shows that it is constructed.
I've seen several other postings of this type on different sites, supposedly written by e r nurses, hospice workers, doctors and more. When I look at them I see the same style writing, presentations and conclusions. It looks obvious to me that this is propaganda disguised as "concerned parents, nurses, etc".
You can believe it if you want. Just be aware that there are many out there who want you to DO WHAT THEY SAY AND IF YOU DON'T YOU WILL PAY THE PRICE! I recommend the book NUDGE to get some info on how this is foisted on the public. --172.222.xx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 8:55 AM
You are correct Richard. Unfortunately, people like you and I are outvoted in this regard and don't get any media coverage.
Brad 20,000, you are also correct. People are pulling back. People are circling the wagons in a sense. My dad said often when I was growing up, when all else fails, get back to the basics. --50.32.xxx.xx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 8:55 AM
You are correct Richard. Unfortunately, people like you and I are outvoted in this regard and don't get any media coverage.
Brad 20,000, you are also correct. People are pulling back. People are circling the wagons in a sense. My dad said often when I was growing up, when all else fails, get back to the basics. --50.32.xxx.xx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 9:00 AM
This issue raises more questions for me constantly. I typed out of a few below.... Advance warning: I have no answers.
CLASS LOADS / STAFFING: A typical school class schedule and staffing has between 15-20% that are non-essential and/or non-viable when transitioned to an online learning environment: disciplinary principles, janitors, sports coaches, theater, music, school nurse, etc. Will those people be fired? Many of them have contracts and tenure.
SPORTS / EXTRACURRICULAR: Will schools that count on hefty revenues from sports events close those events? Will costly sports complexes and fields be maintained when no one is playing on them? What about the kids who made those events part of their big plan for college scholarships?
TRUANCY: What will be done for the 20-30% of kids who went MIA, as LindaJ mentioned? We had several teachers in our kids' school during 4th quarter 2020 mention that some kids went totally offline and never signed into online learning once. There was zero negative impact as a result.
FACE to FACE: The whole model of public educational system has been built upon the importance of classroom time. I taught public HS for 5 years and that mantra was drilled into us. Is anyone ready to rebuild that from the bottom up, and what does that look like? I don't have any answers. We're still in reactive state wondering "What do we do this year?" We're years away from proactively retooling the entire system. Who knows, this could be a very good thing to finally get us away from the Industrial Revolution style school and into the Information Age style schools. It's been talked about for years how our educational models are based on 50 year old desired outcomes. Maybe this event is the catalyst.
THE INTERIM PERIOD: Parents not going back to work and staying home teaching their kids is a great thought. I'm all for it! Give it 5-7 years and we may get them the level of support and expertise to make it work for the ones who aren't hyper motivated to do it themselves. Meanwhile, we have to figure out what to do with the "lost generation(s)" of students for whom public school was their best and possibly only ticket to a better life vs. the Govt dole.
Anyway...that's what's knocking around in my head. Our kids--praise the Lord!--are highly motivated and good at doing research and learning on their own, and my wife and I are both at home so we can keep and eye on it and help as needed. But I do wonder what all this looks like a year from now for the millions of kids and families who aren't in our position?
We certainly live in interesting times.
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 9:07 AM
Richard, the guy named his full name and those of his two daughters too. I took them out before posting, as this was originally posted on a FC website where they are voting on the return to school soon: my son told me about it.
It has since gone a bit viral, as it was posted to me by a cousin up in Maine.
I think the style of writing in these so-called "pieces" tend to be well-written and grammatical which is why they sound similar. ;) --50.82.xxx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 9:10 AM
Sid, I agree with everything you said, and I also agree we don't have the answers yet.
I *do* know the "sit down, shut up and listen" classroom style of teaching has been failing many kids for awhile now. --50.82.xxx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Allym [NJ]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 11:46 AM
JKJ, as a former teacher of grades K, pre K Grade 4 and Grade 5, the older kids would love it and decorate their space helmets and parade around with them. If they got squirmy due to something about the mask, they can leave the classroom and go to the health nurse and take it off safely, clean it and breath outside for a little while and come back in. You just see people when it could be too late so have twisted ideas --71.104.xx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Sorta Blonde [CA]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 12:16 PM
Disclaimer: I'm not saying THIS is better, just that it worked for the 12 years that I taught "Alternative Programs, Dropout Recovery" for my school district. Awesome group of free minded thinking teachers (17 in all). Our group was called "Independent Study". We taught kids who were expelled, suspended, had been in jail, were severe discipline problems, school phobic, chronically ill, and all sorts of other reasons not to go to regular school. We were part of a special group who met kids OFF campus, one on one for 1/2 to 1 hour a week. Yep, only that little time. Our student load was 20 kids max. We gave them courses one at a time, broken into small bits, totally packet based for one weeks worth of work, with the ability to do MORE than one week if the kiddos wanted and could handle it. Every course was take home, packets and textbooks, with a full semester 'Outline' that satisfied our district's graduation requirements. Tests and all class work were 'take home'. Of course we knew that some well-meaning parents would do all the work FOR the kids. So we met the kid, looked over the work, graded tests, etc., and THEN ORALLY QUIZZED the kid on everything they turned in that week. Yeah. A lot of surprises at the very first meeting after enrollment. They soon got the message and kids actually learned something and could show us they learned instead of just getting a letter grade on tests. I loved that job. I got to really know each kiddo and had the time to not only teach them school subjects, but things about REAL life. Some eventually were allowed to go back to their regular schools, but some graduated with me. I got to sign off on it all. Even got to sign the form for completing the Driver Ed class so they could take the form, with my signature to the DMV and get a Driver License. They loved that, I felt oh so powerful and it was a 'carrot' so they would do other work. I'm not saying this was a perfect system, but we 17 free-thinking teachers graduated or returned a significant number of students to 'normal' education who would have otherwise just drifted away or ended up back in jail or worse. Short term learning, not for everyone, not a cure all, but effective. The kids deserved a chance to succeed although some failed miserably and there was nothing anyone could do. Covid-19 has turned our entire world upside down. Nothing is, or will be the same. Fear of illness and dying is a constant. There is no reason we ALL have to do the same thing. Do what works. Do what you think is best for you. Find a way. Hope for better times, adapt, adjust, see what works, change what doesn't, just hang in there. --72.199.xx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by JKJ [MA]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 3:10 PM
Ally, I have no what that means. “You just see people when it could be too late so have twisted ideas” As to the helmets, do you have any idea of what it would cost to give a self contained “space helmet with oxygen generator” to every kid in America? I agree kids would decorate them, and at first would think it’s fun, but I see it interfering with learning to be honest. I give you credit for thinking outside of the box though. --73.17.xxx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 4:15 PM
Sorta Blonde- exactly! Different ideas, different ways to do things.
The ONE thing we cannot do is simply cower in fear. We need to adapt . --70.92.xxx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 4:33 PM
Sorta Blonde, very interesting!!!!! --50.82.xxx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 4:54 PM
LLOTF, There are are lots of things, I would imagine, the schools are saving money on right now but good luck getting our taxes back. If anything I bet our taxes increase. Sort of like the cost of groceries went way up but farmers were throwing and giving food away. --73.120.xx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Allym [NJ]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 5:53 PM
Their is now a consumer Hazmat suit for travel. Has a big space helmet and an oxygen source Ha ha ha, you detractors!
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 6:06 PM
That was funny AllyM --73.120.xx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by JKJ [MA]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 6:45 PM
Ally, why is it if someone questions something you post, you feel the need to attack them? What’s with the “Ha ha ha you detractors” comment? I said I’d love to hear your thoughts, and asked if you had given any thought to the cost involved in outfitting every student with a self contained air purifying /oxygen generating helmet. Additionally I mentioned that I felt it would interfere with a child’s learning. What exactly was disparaging about that? At any rate Ally, I looked into the cost that would be associated with providing all of the 56.6 million American school children 1 of these BioVYZR helmets, (I think that is the new consumer hazmat suits for travel you were referring to) It would cost the tax payers 14 billion, one hundred fifty million dollars. Seeing that some schools can’t afford basic school supplies and the teachers are paying out of their pockets to buy these items for their classrooms I’m thinking I was correct in my thoughts that it wouldn’t be cost effective. Also after looking at these online I realize I was 100 percent correct in thinking that they would interfere with a child’s learning. As a former school teacher I think you would agree that holding a child’s attention is hard enough without putting everyone in individual bubbles. --72.93.xxx.xx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by on [WI]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 7:23 PM
Does any one remember our Duck and Cover training, Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962. if you dont google and read --66.97.xxx.xx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by JKJ [MA]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 7:33 PM
WI, OH YEAH, when I was a kid we use to have drills in school where every kid would get under the desk, curl up face down in the fetal position, and cover their head with their arms. This was the mid to late 70’s, and they were still doing it in my school. --72.93.xxx.xx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Sorta Blonde [CA]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 7:40 PM
If I said I remembered the duck and cover, and touring the BOMB shelter at the local library, would it mean I was OLD??? --72.199.xx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by on [WI]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 7:44 PM
Work locally think globaly
Any one read about how the italians are honestly working thru the c 19.
Very interesting. Just food for thought --66.97.xxx.xx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Allym [NJ]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 8:10 PM
JKJ, why do you even think I am replying to you? Others have said my space helmet was ridiculous over the past few months. Where did I mention you in the "detractors" post? Get over yourself.
Ducking and covering was big in the 1950s. From I think second grade up, that would be 1953, we school kids would be getting under the desk or filing into the hallways to "get away from flying glass". It was a dusty dirty action too because the private school was not being cleaned by the drunken custodian and no one cared. Something must have been going on that was not making the news. --71.104.xx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Sandy [CO]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 8:21 PM
As long as social distancing and masks are required in our society, then there should be no school gatherings as well. What is required in our society as a whole, must carry through all other facets of our community. --45.131.xxx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Robin [WI]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 8:50 PM
I don't know if anyone is still reading the thread at this point, but...
Once upon a time, kids didn't go to school. They learned crucial life skills from Mom and Dad at home.
I have a special-needs son who is a teenager. "Virtual school" after school closed in March consisted of teachers emailing worksheets to be completed. There was no instruction. I spent three frustrating hours every day dragging him through it, while work piled up on my desk.
If school goes virtual this fall, or it is some combination of go to school two days a week/you're on your own the other days, or if the kids have to be masked and six feet away from each other...we're pulling out. I will provide him a real-world education. He's not much of a book-learning kid anyway, and loves pulling up tack strips and doing demo work. He can come with me to trim trees at rental properties and do maintenance visits and pull toilets. I'm not going to put my life on hold so that he can memorize the steps of the water cycle, which will take him approximately six of his valuable life hours on earth. Instead we'll measure the slope of the hill behind the basement that floods, and dig out a trench together, and use a level to make sure that the water in the pipe we lay runs downhill.
Our society has become so reliant on the mass-production model of education that I think we sometimes forget that one-on-one mentorship can provide incomparable learning opportunities. --104.230.xxx.xx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by JKJ [MA]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 8:53 PM
Ally you claim you’re an extremely intelligent woman, certainly you can put 2 and 2 together. It has nothing to do with me being full of myself, The reason I believed you were referring to me was because I had asked you how you propose the helmet you posted about in THIS THREAD would work with children in a educational setting. No one else replied to you in this thread, logically one would come to the assumption that you are responding to the only reply you received in this thread, as opposed to something you posted about weeks ago. Regarding the drills you did during the 50’s, you said “something must have been going on that didn’t make the news”. I think the “something” was the Cold War. The Soviet Union detonate their first nuclear bomb in mid 1949 I believe, (I’ll have to look it up later), but that detonation sparked the “Duck and Cover” campaign. --72.93.xxx.xx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 9:37 PM
I remember having to go to the hallway in school for a, I think, tornado drill. They also use to sound sirens around the city every so often to make sure they were working. I don't even thing the sirens are around now. Funny how time changes things.
Robin, Although I think a class room education is good because I don't think anyone has actually been homeschooling and, as you pointed out, there are no instructions or guides, I agree with what you are saying and especially considering your son. I am also not good with books as my brain just doesn't go there to well but, I can figure things out when I work with my hands and can even get creative and can also figure out ways to repurpose things. Everyone is different and has skills in different areas. I am actually trying to teach myself math and other subjects now, even though it is like the blind leading the blind. I have a really hard time trying to figure out how what is in the books applies in real life so your hands on approach for your son will probably be a blessing for him and you will be the best teacher he could have. Hats off to you for that. --73.120.xx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Sorta Blonde [CA]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 9:51 PM
Robin! Good for you for realizing that some things we all consider essential and normal in life, are not essential for ALL people. Kudos to you for teaching your kid that 'life skills' are sometimes more valuable for survival than book learning. Case in point. I had some very unique kids in my career as a teacher, one stands out as my greatest failure and also my greatest success. He was almost 18, and only in the 9th grade educationally. My job was to get him 'up to speed' for his age and transition him back to 'regular' school. This kid couldn't read, couldn't put a sentence together, agonized with even the most basic math and came to my 'independent' class every day trying his best to please me, and his parents. Great kid, funny, friendly, talented in many ways that didn't include book learning. After watching him get more and more depressed over what he couldn't do, I asked about his life in general. He had been taken in as an apprentice to a really great Plumber in town who taught him all he knew. This kid learned quickly and was awesome at Plumbing. He could tell me all about everything. I made a decision to help him survive life and called his parents in for a conference. I bluntly stated the problems with his school subjects, but said how awesome a kid they had and then said, "I would like you to withdraw your son from school and let him be a Plumber". They were shocked, but they listened to me. One year later, this kid (now looking more like a full grown adult) drove up to my classroom in a fancy sports car, accompanied by a gorgeous girl and told me THANKS for doing what you did for me. "I now have a great life, and besides this car, I have a fancy Pick Up truck and a ski boat. I OWN my own condo and am making a ton of money being a Plumber which is what I really love to do." Big hug from him, big smiles from me and off he went. It's rare when a teacher tells a kid to quit, but it was the right thing to do for this one. Success and survival are sometimes not totally dependent on a formal educational setting. Hope your son continues to do well. --72.199.xx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 10:21 PM
Sorta Blonde, I love your story. Good call.
One Christmas I had some friends over and they were talking about how expensive that college had gotten and that they thought it might be better for people to just not go and be entrepreneurs or something . --73.120.xx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 10:40 PM
JKL,just ignore her,most of us do,she comes to very illogical conclusions regularly.I remember in elementary school early 70s- mid 70s going to the cafeteria and everyone getting under the lunch tables,i cant imagine that would have made any difference if we had been bombed --104.229.xxx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by on [WI]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 11:28 PM
I kinda think you missed the underlying issue
but so be it --66.97.xxx.xx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jul 16, 2020 12:41 AM
6x6, there has been a growing homeschool movement for about twenty years now. Our kids were involved with 4-H, and we knew many people in that organization who were homeschooling. 4-H is a very good compliment for BOTH the homeschooling and traditional classroom schooling. There are parent groups, some parents swap off teaching some things, and parents get the kids together for gym classes, group art, music, and even field trips. Though with the shutdown those group activities are curtailed, I am sure.
My best friend from high school home schooled her younger children after her son was struggling. The son turned out fine, and their youngest daughter absolutely flourished. Started college last fall on academic scholarship. That young lady isn’t missing a beat with this shutdown. She was used to independent study already. However, my friend was a very good student herself. Homeschooling isn’t for everybody. --70.92.xxx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jul 16, 2020 12:47 AM
Blast! Didn’t edit properly. I seemed to have moved a sentence in that post.
There are parent groups for homeschooling, and 4-H uses parents as leaders, so both involve kids learning from their parents, or other parents, and 4-H also has leaders ( volunteers, usually parents of kids in 4-H,) teaching groups, most often with all the parents right there too. ( not just the leader) --70.92.xxx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by nhsailmaker [NH]) Posted on: Jul 16, 2020 8:19 AM
We should open everything up and let PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY be the rule
Freedom and liberty are not passed down through the generations - It is fought for every day
Herd immunity has already been reached in many areas of the country
QUOTE: Association of American Physicians and Surgeons …..governors and policymakers need to adopt a different, more targeted approach that focuses principally on the most vulnerable populations.
I say that it is the choice of the most vulnerable populations to do what they think is right
To think that any policy maker or politician is ever correct requires a willing suspension of disbelief --24.62.xxx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jul 16, 2020 8:28 AM
"We should open everything up and let PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY be the rule:" We are talking about little kids here. They are still being taught not to pick their nose. LICE in school is a big issue and that is far less transmissive than this virus.
"Freedom and liberty are not passed down through the generations - It is fought for every day." Fighting this virus requires community cooperation: you wear a mask for me, I wear a mask for you, and we refrain from unnecessary gatherings.
"Herd immunity has already been reached in many areas of the country." Where is this exactly? I have not heard this announced anywhere? Scientist are in fact afraid that having the virus confers only a short-lived immunity. --50.82.xxx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Jul 16, 2020 1:39 PM
Back when I was coming of age, learning how the world works, I learned that "My freedom ends at the tip of my nose". From my nose out I have a civic responsibility to respect the freedom of others.
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jul 16, 2020 1:53 PM
I learned evil prospers when good men do nothing. --70.92.xxx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jul 16, 2020 3:03 PM
If school don’t reopen , are we going to have people with a tenth grade education working as doctors, respiratory therapists, computer programmers? Yes, many things can be taught on the job. AND, we waste a INCREDIBLE amount of time and resources with just plain unneeded things on our school systems. We don’t need to reopen schools the same way it was before.
But, right now, I say, full S.T.E.M. ahead! The arts teachers can be considered non-essential. Heck, I went to a FOUR classroom elementary school, with just FOUR TEACHERS for first through eight grade. We have very successful adults, including sports and arts professions, among our alumni. ( ok, who counts grade school fellows as alumni? ) Point is, as a nation, we Don’t have to go back to what school was before. In fact, I too didn’t think our education system was working well.
Of course, things will have to be taught differently. But, this virus isn’t going away, and, the next pandemic and the next may be just around the corner. We need replacement respiratory therapists, nurses, doctors, computer programmers, and qualified drivers for all of these delivery services. So, while we’re at it, put driver’s ed in EVERY public school. Paid for by the taxpayers, not the parents. Yep, I said it. Cut out music, art and gym, if we have to, but get our population trained to drive properly. ( I drive safely to protect you, you drive safely to protect me. Ha! Put that in yer mask and ruminate on it. )
So, I say we should retool our education system, focus on what is essential going forward, and maybe catch up to the rest of the world. I, speaking just for me, want the next generation of medical professionals, and other professionals, to be developed NOW. --70.92.xxx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jul 16, 2020 3:49 PM
All good ideas Busy. All good. --50.82.xxx.xxx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Cjo’h [CT]) Posted on: Jul 24, 2020 1:16 AM
Most education is got after. Most. children leave school. 6. X. 6. In order to brush up on your math ,you may have to keep your shoes off and never under any circumstances wear gloves.Robin, your son will be much better off because of your interaction with him.Sorta blonde,you’re OK in my book..................charlie...............? ? ?After I came here,thought it would be nice to go to night school and get a High School Diploma..when the teachers started to teach the same things that we had in the fourth grade in our two room school house , back in Derry decided would be better to stick with Construction.............. --32.214.xxx.xx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Cjo’h [CT]) Posted on: Jul 31, 2020 11:28 PM
I have the High school Diploma somewhere ,If only I could remember where? Now am retired Don’t really need it anymore.Well,It’s nice to have,Gives the grandchildren something to strive for.....................Charlie --32.214.xxx.xx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Cjo’h [CT]) Posted on: Jul 31, 2020 11:47 PM
Built a house for people I’ve known for years .one of Maureen’s friends wrote the book there “The thorn Birds”Turned into a best seller and eventually into a movie.forget who made the movie.saw the movie,only read about 30 pages of the book..............charlie............................. --32.214.xxx.xx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Cjo’h [CT]) Posted on: Aug 1, 2020 12:05 AM
Ken,we always took our lunch to school .There was no lunch room.Just two rooms Were lucky to have a fire that worked ,especially in the winter............... .............................charlie.................... --32.214.xxx.xx
TOTALLY OT: School Open (by Cjo’h [CT]) Posted on: Aug 1, 2020 12:13 AM
Busy,sometimes you’re further ahead when other people do nothing ..z............................charlie --32.214.xxx.xx
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