WHY sure!!!
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WHY sure!!! (by myob [GA]) Jun 19, 2020 8:25 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by Marie [MO]) Jun 19, 2020 8:49 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by plenty [MO]) Jun 19, 2020 8:51 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by WMH [NC]) Jun 19, 2020 9:04 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by Deanna [TX]) Jun 19, 2020 9:20 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by RR78 [VA]) Jun 19, 2020 9:27 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by myob [GA]) Jun 19, 2020 9:42 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by S i d [MO]) Jun 19, 2020 9:46 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by RentsDue [MA]) Jun 19, 2020 9:52 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by myob [GA]) Jun 19, 2020 9:58 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by Robert J [CA]) Jun 19, 2020 9:58 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Jun 19, 2020 10:10 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by myob [GA]) Jun 19, 2020 10:19 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Jun 19, 2020 10:31 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by LisaFL [FL]) Jun 19, 2020 10:32 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by myob [GA]) Jun 19, 2020 10:40 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Jun 19, 2020 10:41 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by WMH [NC]) Jun 19, 2020 10:58 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by LindaJ [NY]) Jun 19, 2020 11:13 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Jun 19, 2020 11:18 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by RR78 [VA]) Jun 19, 2020 11:22 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by Jeffrey [VA]) Jun 19, 2020 11:49 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by JKJ [MA]) Jun 19, 2020 12:44 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by Sorta Blonde [CA]) Jun 19, 2020 1:31 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by LisaFL [FL]) Jun 19, 2020 1:32 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Jun 19, 2020 2:12 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by myob [GA]) Jun 19, 2020 2:19 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Jun 19, 2020 2:24 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by LisaFL [FL]) Jun 19, 2020 3:54 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by DJ [VA]) Jun 19, 2020 4:17 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by myob [GA]) Jun 19, 2020 4:39 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by Ken [NY]) Jun 19, 2020 4:48 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by 6x6 [TN]) Jun 19, 2020 5:01 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by Vee [OH]) Jun 19, 2020 5:34 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by Pmh [TX]) Jun 19, 2020 5:40 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by JKJ [MA]) Jun 19, 2020 5:46 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by Omh [TX]) Jun 19, 2020 5:53 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by 6x6 [TN]) Jun 19, 2020 6:10 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by JKJ [MA]) Jun 19, 2020 7:13 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by Jeffrey [VA]) Jun 19, 2020 7:25 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by RR78 [VA]) Jun 19, 2020 11:06 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Jun 20, 2020 1:05 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by OTC [TN]) Jun 20, 2020 5:05 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by elliot [RI]) Jun 20, 2020 8:14 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by PG [SC]) Jun 20, 2020 9:51 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by myob [GA]) Jun 20, 2020 10:27 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by elliot [RI]) Jun 20, 2020 12:30 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Jun 20, 2020 12:46 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by Jeffrey [VA]) Jun 20, 2020 12:48 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by JB [OR]) Jun 20, 2020 1:57 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by LindaJ [NY]) Jun 20, 2020 2:47 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by myob [GA]) Jun 20, 2020 2:58 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Jun 20, 2020 3:41 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by myob [GA]) Jun 21, 2020 8:57 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Jun 21, 2020 11:25 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by myob [GA]) Jun 22, 2020 9:50 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Jun 22, 2020 10:26 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by mike [CA]) Jun 22, 2020 4:29 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by mike [CA]) Jun 22, 2020 4:52 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Jun 22, 2020 5:16 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by Dee Ann [WI]) Jun 26, 2020 10:44 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by Dee Ann [WI]) Jun 26, 2020 10:45 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Jun 26, 2020 11:18 AM
       WHY sure!!! (by DavemanUT [TN]) Jun 28, 2020 4:11 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by Dee Ann [WI]) Jun 28, 2020 10:09 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by Cjo’h [CT]) Jul 8, 2020 4:29 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by Cjo’h [CT]) Jul 8, 2020 4:37 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by Cjo’h [CT]) Jul 8, 2020 4:49 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by Cjo’h [CT]) Jul 8, 2020 5:07 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Jul 9, 2020 4:28 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by 6x6 [TN]) Jul 9, 2020 7:50 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by Cjo’h [CT]) Jul 15, 2020 5:41 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by 6x6 [TN]) Jul 15, 2020 6:12 PM
       WHY sure!!! (by Sandy [CO]) Jul 16, 2020 12:41 AM

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WHY sure!!! (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 8:25 AM

Tenant asks for us to put up ceiling fan in master Bedroom. No current fixture or box in place.

Ok. Tenant said "I will buy ceiling fan". Asks us to buy the ceiling joist bracket so "when they leave the bracket can stay" (since it would be ours). As she said-- if she buys it they'll have to get in the attic to remove it to take it with them.

So let me see here. We run wire to ceiling center-- put up OUR bracket to hold a ceiling fan (their fan). When they leave they take fan and leave us a hole in the ceiling? Where fan USE to BE?

YEA I'll get right on that! --99.103.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by Marie [MO]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 8:49 AM

Pretty darn funny. Reminds me of the time, my Resident asked if she could plant a tree in the backyard. Ah...No. --98.156.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 8:51 AM

Tenant would patch the hole. Paint the ceiling and an electrician would remove the wire back to the panel box as if nothing ever happened. What world do you live in? Lol. --99.203.xx.xx

WHY sure!!! (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 9:04 AM

We buy the ceiling fans. Cheap white ones from Home Depot. They work fine, they last a long time, they stay with the house.

It's too hot here not to have fans, so we put them in every house where the ceiling is high enough! And we've install walls fans in rooms where they are not (those don't require special wiring, they just plug in.)

Now if a picky tenant wanted to REPLACE our ceiling fan with one of their own, we might let them, but no one has ever asked. --50.82.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by Deanna [TX]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 9:20 AM

We always put in ceiling fans wherever we can. They look nice, are affordable if you shop right, and people like them.

It's hard for me to sleep in a room with no air movement or white noise. I have a ceiling fan in my bedroom. Heck, I think I have six ceiling fans in various rooms of my house, and we installed all of them. (Our house had been vacant for two years before we bought it, and people broke in and stole pretty much every light fixture in the house.) I can't think of the last time I turned on the fan part any of them, though--- because if I want air movement and white noise, they're pretty useless. I have some nice pedestal fans that do a much better job of keeping things pleasant. But even a cheapie box fan is better-performing than a ceiling fan, to be honest. --96.46.xxx.xx

WHY sure!!! (by RR78 [VA]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 9:27 AM

We like a ceiling fixture in each room especially bedrooms.

In your case we would let them choose.

Do nothing, a set price or rent increase to cover cost of a upgrade they requested.

A fixture always stays with the property. If they want to. Add in the cost of putting up a cheap light fixture to replace the missing fan when they leave. --73.40.xx.xx

WHY sure!!! (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 9:42 AM

I hope all of you weren't serious? Marie gets it.... --99.103.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 9:46 AM

Depends on class of rental. C or below? Heck no. B or A? yes.

I follow the rules found in the Section 8 Bible regarding "eliminators". They have a list of things to get rid of ASAP in Class C or below unit because they do not get you any added rent, often get abused, and are a pain to fix.

Tenant wants a fan? $25 at Wal-Mart gets you a nice oscillating tower fan. All that's required is a 110V plug that already exists. Easy cheesy! --107.216.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by RentsDue [MA]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 9:52 AM

Sure. Next year (when they call you to complain that their ceiling fan isn’t putting out enough air), I’m sure you will send someone right over. Maybe you should split the cost of central AC with them - that will be a good fight when they take it with them when they leave. --71.89.x.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 9:58 AM

Excuse me folks -- this house has central AC.

I say get a small box fan!!!!!! --99.103.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 9:58 AM

I have some units that an extra bedroom only has a wall sconce for lighting because there is no attic above the ceiling and hard to install a light or ceiling fan box.

Also some tenants will choose a terrible ceiling fan, not UL approved and a dangerous design.

To solve all of those issues, I will install a surface mounting J-Box bolted directly through the drywall into a ceiling joist and run decorative electrical chain and wire from the ceiling box in the center of the ceiling to a wall, then drop down to an electrical outlet. Then using the pull chains from the fan to run the light and motor. --47.155.xx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 10:10 AM

What the tenant doesn’t ‘get’ is the cost of the electrician. Sure, a fan cost hundred bucks, electrician? But, tenants don’t know that. Me? I would explain that. And, after all the discussion of fans on this forum lately, when a tenant mentioned the very poor lighting in the master bedroom, I decided to spring for the fan ( and the electrician.) Now, certainly, I had already been considering this, and had figured out long ago what I wanted in terms of switches, placement, and if the existing wall sconces stays or goes (stays.)

Course, I DO like long term tenants. For one thing, it’s much better for the kids if they have the stability of staying into one place for most of their childhood. Also helps the neighborhood as a whole, especially if tenants make friends with neighbors, which I strongly encourage. So, for me, not churning tenant’s is one of the best things we can do as landlords to help stabilize neighborhoods, help reduce crime, help reduce effects of poverty.

It NOT all about the money. Oh, wait, it is. I have fewer damages, fewer turnovers, which I am very slow at, and I get good rents, paid on time or early. --70.92.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 10:19 AM

busy I for one am shaking my head at your post. --99.103.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 10:31 AM

Didn’t have the info that the house has central A/C, but, even so, at our home, we use ceiling fans with our central A/C. A rotating stand fan would do a better job ( to me) than a box fan. But, all of that doesn’t negate the main fact- tenant doesn’t know the costs of the electrician. Those hundred dollar fans look nice, what’s your problem landlord? (. tenant might be thinking...) landlord to tenant, ‘ An electrician is going to cost buckets more than that, and the fan cannot just be removed when someone goes. But, there are really, really nice looking oscillating fans that just plug in, so those can provide the air movement and white noise, AND they are very easy to take to the next place.‘ ( tenant, “Oh, didn’t think of that.” But, tenant hasn’t seen the nice-looking oscillating fans, still wants ceiling fans.) And then, next time I saw one of those very nice looking oscillating fans, when I was out and about, I would snap a picture of that and send that tenant a text. Or, if dealing with dozens of units, rather than just my handful, it would go in the monthly newsletter. Because if one tenant would like the air movement and masking noise, others would as well.

Still requires ‘dealing’ with tenant requests, but, now they know more. Before the conversation, they just thought landlord is cheap, won’t pay for a hundred dollar fan. Improvements like these are like icebergs. Pretty and small on top of the water, whole lot more going on underneath that the innocents just don’t know about..... --70.92.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by LisaFL [FL]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 10:32 AM

Tenant wanted to install her own shower head (my Moen was brand new). I told her she could buy what she wanted, but only my plumber can install so she’d have to pay him twice (to install hers and then reinstall mine when she left). She changed her mind.

Funny story: tenant has broken ceiling fan blade (new fan, bed under fan). Now I know her young child was jumping on the bed and broke it although she claimed she didn’t know how it broke.

I don’t put fans in smaller bedrooms kids use as when they have bunk beds or loft beds it just doesn’t turn out well. After repairing the fan in the master bedroom she asked if I would install a ceiling fan in her son’s bedroom. I declined and suggested an oscillating floor fan. Her reply, “We tried that, but he broke it.”

Sometimes they just dumbfound me. Her child damages the ceiling fan in her bedroom, damages the floor fan in his room, but he sleeps hot so could I install a ceiling fan in his room for him? --216.186.xxx.xx

WHY sure!!! (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 10:40 AM

Busy I was shaking my head about the long term tenants?-- Kids coming into a neighborhood? Living there for ever? Making friends with others in the hood? and let's see what else OH reduce crime?

Let me throw this out there. You do all that and here comes the LL's from this site who just drop anyone in a place? What then?

Funny I'm trying to keep tenants from entrenching themselves in my properties and you want them-- and now their grand kids?

Not saying your wrong-- but reading that post--- well Busy-- you are way to deep into your residents in my opinion.

Stabilize a neighborhood: keep tenants fresh, young, keep property upgraded and at market rent. #1 is keep you the owner in full control. --99.103.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 10:41 AM

So, what’s wrong with my post? I, for one, was shaking my head at the post you made about the riots, the poverty, the racism, yet you churn tenants.....

Methinks social issues are to you what electrical issues are to your tenants. There is a whole iceberg under the water that contributes to social unrest, racism, poor outcomes for disadvantaged kids. I, as a landlord, feel STRONGLY that as landlords we can AND should encourage stability, encourage learning, encourage tenants to become the better part of their neighborhoods. Not just the NEXT! in a long line of revolving door, don’t get involved, don’t improve the neighborhood people.

You and I are very different. That is ‘fo shur!’ --70.92.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 10:58 AM

MYOB, we don't put ceiling fans in at tenant request. We put them in EVERY house before it ever rents the first time. Like changing out every electrical plug and switch, it's just part of what we do to renovate a house to our standards. --50.82.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by LindaJ [NY]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 11:13 AM

If the tenant takes her fan, it is pretty easy to just replace it with another or a light fixture. It really isn't a hole in the ceiling that you are left with.

I agree with Busy about tenants and neighborhoods, but I also understand that may not work in your area, myob. The nice thing about this forum is getting feedback and ideas from all over the continent, from all sorts of business models in many different neighborhood type. But you have to find what works for you.

In my case, I did as Robert J and used a decorative chain and wire in an 1850s house without a ceiling fixture. It wasn't that much effort. Good tenants are now even happier. (for PITA tenants, I would probably do nothing)

I personally dislike air conditioning and only use our window unit when absolutely necessary. I also don't sleep well those night. I much prefer the windows open and a ceiling fan that just barely moves the air. Everyone has a different idea of comfort. --108.4.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 11:18 AM


I don’t just write some post about, oh, the racism, oh, the social unrest, and say , oh, SOMEBODY should do something. Oh, cops should change, statues should come down, teachers should be paid more.... should, should, should, should, should, should.

Landlording is something I CAN DO. Yes, somebody SHOULD do something. And I am SOMEBODY!

All the negatives in our country will never be turned to positive if we don’t teach, we don’t educate. And that isn’t something that stops when the person gets out of high school.

And, yes, I HAVE turned tenants from being the neighbors nobody wanted into being neighbors people were happy to live next to. It can be done! And, I have moved on ( out of my houses) those families that just did NOT want to learn how to get along. One family, I saw Mom a couple of years later, she said it was best thing that happened. Her grown sons turned some things around ( for now... without someone guiding them, or giving them a kick in the arse....)

My family knows how proud I am of the tenants when they make good choices, continue to grow, have better lives, raise their kids better. I would MUCH rather spend free time on teaching than to go on any , in my way of thinking, stooped, wasteful cruises where hoards of tourist trample all off the beautiful spots in the world, destroying them with their very presence. I’d rather create beauty right in my own city.

Go plant a tree people. Even better, show your tenants,, and their kids how to plant a tree.

Shake your head at this, Don. I just dropped of three beautifully repainted wooden planter boxes to go around the base of a Shademaster Honeylocust that I planted in a backyard last year. Someone had pulled some of the lower branches off that tree last year. I’ve had that happen before. It’s sometimes parents getting a switch for their kids’ booties. Sometimes it’s the kids themselves playing with the tree. So, I had a talk with all tenants and their guests about leaving those branches alone- the tree needs them to produce energy to grow.

So, when I saw these three wooden plantar boxes put out for the garbage in my own city, I snagged them. They badly needed a paint job, I had many cans of spray paint in my basement that I wanted to clear out. Including two cans of hammered metal spray paint in a silvery blue that I had used on trim on that very house where these boxes would go. So, repainted the boxes, filled them with good potting soil from my own stash ( I don’t BUY potting soil, I glean it, refurbish it, but that’s a whole other topic,) dropped off the planters, AND dropped off a paper lunch sack with last year’s marigold blooms, AND WRITTEN directions, complete with illustrations, on the bag. Tenant was excited! She has mentioned twice how she is going to plant those seeds with her little nieces who visit a lot.

Doing that little project cost me nothing, was a relaxing way to spend MY time ( gardening, painting, digging in dirt, illustrating... check! All things I love to do! Teaching kids how to garden , so the next generation gets out in the sun and digs in the dirt. Awesome sauce!) Tenant might, or might not get those marigolds planted. Of course, I hope she does. Nothing says summer is here TO ME like the smell of marigold seeds. I want those little ones to know that smell, and think of a nice sunny day when they planted flower seeds with their favorite Aunt. Now, I know my tenant is busy, she is VERY hardworking, but I also have discovered over the seven years she has been my tenant, that she likes to water plants in the yard ( as do I. Mmmm... sunshine, hear water trickle, see plants thrive...) and I KNOW that getting out in the yard is VERY VERY good for mental health. Something everyone living in a busy city, with lots of things pulling them in all kinds of directions could use.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy better use of my time, more enjoyable FOR ME than going on a cruise!

CHEERS! --70.92.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by RR78 [VA]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 11:22 AM


I think you will find more LL then not. That a ceiling fan is worth the cost. With better long term tenants.

And could depend on your market.

But all markets would agree that a upgrade is worth it. If you can get the tenant to pay for it. --73.40.xx.xx

WHY sure!!! (by Jeffrey [VA]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 11:49 AM

Busy, did someone hit a nerve? If so, I am so glad it prompted you to say more:).

I so love and greatly appreciate your passion for what you do!! Thanks for taking the time to more fully share your thoughts, inspiration and passion. Your post above was one of the most powerful I think have ever read on this forum.

Now stop holding back and tell us how you really feel about landlording:) --70.161.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by JKJ [MA]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 12:44 PM

Busy, you made me smile, you are very passionate about what you do. The world needs more people like you!!!! --174.192.xx.x

WHY sure!!! (by Sorta Blonde [CA]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 1:31 PM

I wish MY tenants were like Busy's! I have trouble just getting them to take out the trash cans on garbage day and then bring them back that night. Sometimes they stay in the street for a week until they 'need' them again. Ugh! Give me some nice, caring, happy, helpful, tenants!!! Maybe it's 'something in the water' in WI that makes people nicer? Good for you, Busy! Keep doing what you are doing. --72.199.xx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by LisaFL [FL]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 1:32 PM

Sounds to me like myob and busy have simply had different experiences and cater to differ types of tenants.

Personally I fall right in the middle of the two differing opinions. I lean more towards the busy mindset but it’s because I’m good at picking quality tenants but over thirty plus years of being a landlord I completely get myob’s mindset as well. I’ve had those tenants too, until I learned. Some people do not appreciate what they have, they don’t respect your efforts or property and trying to teach them anything will fall on deaf ears.

There is a market for those people and it sounds like myob has found it and approaches his reality appropriately. No amount of gentle behavior coaching or pretty flowers is going to fix them.

And even those who seem to be the best of tenants can turn on you in an instant.

But like busy I tend to care too much, bend over backwards, undercharge, etc...which others would never do and they likely get taken advantage of less. Neither way is necessarily right or wrong or better or worse. But in the end I’ve learned when you know in heart your intentions were good, you treated your tenants as you would hope to be treated, and you sleep well at night, when you have to make a decision that will disappoint or adversely affect them you have guilt or qualms about doing it. --216.186.xxx.xx

WHY sure!!! (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 2:12 PM

If the room has other lighting and there's nothing hanging there currently, you can install a switch, the mount kit and when they take the fan you can just install a cap over it. Looks neat and it's ready for the next tenant. --108.69.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 2:19 PM

Unlike most "I AM NOT A SOCIAL WORKER". I have a business to run with 63 families with 300 people. Ok maybe when I had 2 or 4 homes back in the OL days-- yea I could and did have that attitude. Frankly I've been shaken way to may times. Gee I did this family right and WHAM I get it jammed.

As I've said many times here and say it again: as long as it's going the way the Resident wants-- you are the greatest. We use to say this at work one "ah S**T" cancels out 1000 attaboys.

My responsibilities do not allow me to live in a fantasy world but reality. I have to give 300 people a safe place to live. I have to ask the responsible parties to act accordingly and SET GOOD examples. I am but a pea in a pod.

You are "wanting to give a better life" but they are not accepting your generosity?

Not sure why the cruise reference? You mean my time off? Guess that's fair game?

I digress: many have missed the point of the post. I have a full time guy who can do it. In fact he went in the attic to see what would be needed while she was there. So here's the bottom line. I never asked for compensation. Never asked for wire or even bracket. RATHER THAN TENANT suggesting (since she really needs it) that she will buy the ceiling fan 69.00 AND LEAVE IT WHEN SHE DEPARTS if we would do the installation. That's how a caring person would approach it-- how a considerate person would do it. Notice none of you even suggested that? So again it's not working together-- it's me! Me! Me! .... all over again.

Busy I do have to ask-- where did you come up with DON. --99.103.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 2:24 PM

Sorta Blonde, start with printing up two copies of your area’s trash schedules. One gets taped really well on the underside of the trash bin. ( leave no paper exposed to moisture, tape over whole schedule.) The other gets taped inside a kitchen cabinet. Of course, you have to do the taping, tenants don’t have tape.

Then mention , Thank you for keeping the streets looking nice by returning the carts to their spots on trash day, in your next newsletter. ( even if they haven’t always.) I do a one or two sided hand written note that I copy. Gets mailed with rent receipts. I mention fun things to do too, like a church that has an ‘off-the-chain‘ barbecue fundraiser the first weekend of every warming month, or mention fun ways to enjoy holiday lights in winter on the cheap. Couple of neighborhoods that rock those lights, and have said, they just want to bring joy in the winter. So, the newsletter isn’t just nag, nag, nag. But, I can do that too, if needed. ( nagging is best in short doses.) --70.92.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by LisaFL [FL]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 3:54 PM

Myob, excellent point. And the reason I would have said no as well.

I recently had a tenant ask if we would put new flooring in. The current flooring is laminate (not something I put in). It is aged and she keeps the house spotless. I would have liked to accommodate her but it is too much work to try to replace an entire houses flooring while someone is living there. She approached it by saying they would buy all the materials if we would install it.

They really meant well. But I have no doubt they would have chosen something cheaper than I would use and they know several of my other tenants so word would get around and it would come back to bite me.

For quality tenants I have installed extras no question (exterior outlets, exterior light when there was none for example, handheld shower head tenant offered to buy who was recovering from surgery). Other things like can you put in a water softener or dishwasher- were a no. They don’t realize a kitchen has to be remodeled to accommodate a dishwasher, or the work/maintenance involved in installing a water softener. --216.186.xxx.xx

WHY sure!!! (by DJ [VA]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 4:17 PM

My rental agreement has a clause that says basically: If landlord approves something installed - professionally - it becomes part of the property (belongs to landlord) and stays when tenant leaves. --68.10.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 4:39 PM

Not to be harsh busy but while you're finding old planters and marigold seeds and digging in the dirt. Telling tenants not to rip the lower branches off the trees for switches to use on their kids behinds while your doing that --- some of us are out there finding that dilapidated house that needs fix up for a deserving family. We're out there cleaning up some of the most disgusting places and so neglected.... to convert to something of beauty for a family to LIVE IN.

You want to do some good-- find that trashed house and return it to some family in need. I don't have spray cans of paint to deal with but buckets upon buckets of paint that allows my residents to live in not just a decent house but great housing. It's up to them to keep it that way.

What I found over the top was the teaching them-- Busy their parents are suppose to be the teachers not the LLords. If they haven't (tenants) learned by the start of HS whats right and wrong-- you or I as a LL and all the disparaging remarks made about LL's can never do it.

The majority of people look down their nose at LL's and fact they hate the LL.

Jeffery I'm sorry but that post, to me, was more LaLa land then reality in this current climate facing LL's.

I'll understand if you would like me to stop posting. really. --99.103.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 4:48 PM

Cant we all just get along? My houses are for sale to anyone who can pay for them,deserving or otherwise --104.229.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 5:01 PM

This has certainly become an interesting post and just over ceilings fans.

I think LisaFL said it well, treat people(even tenants) the way you want to be treated. That is basically what Busy seems to do a very good job at. I also try to follow that approach with my tenants but they still need to be aware of who is in charge. My tenants and I are getting along well. Like Busy, I also prefer long term tenants. That said, I am aware that you(myob) do not want long term tenants and you make it work well for you. I also agree where in the end that they really don't care about the LL.

Now, on to the ceiling fans. My SFH rental and my own house are early 1900's and have high ceilings and larger windows for air circulation prior to the invention of A/C or HVAC. I have ceiling fans in both houses. The ceiling fans help pull the hot air down to be cooled by the HVAC and I think it even helps lower the cost of cooling. My tenants love them and use them all of the time. I bought the rental in 2010 and the ceiling fans were already there. The same fans are still going strong.

My tenant has a hybrid car(VOLT) and wanted a car charger so he could charge his car at home. He said that he would buy the charger and pay for installation. I told him that I would agree to a car charger if he agreed to leave it with the house when he(they) moved and he agreed. I know have a 240 volt car charger at my college area rental at no cost to me. So, that is my example of the suggestion that you referred to.

Busy, myob is the cruse king. LOL


WHY sure!!! (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 5:34 PM

I think a lot like Sid on this, but maybe you could draw the image of a ceiling fan and give them the 18bux floor model. --76.188.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by Pmh [TX]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 5:40 PM

my rental houses all have central air. I put in ceiling fans if none. small price to pay for an added feature I upsell as an amenity to prospects when I show them why I charge the rents I do. I don’t sweat the small stuff. --107.77.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by JKJ [MA]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 5:46 PM

Am I missing something here? The tenant asked MYOB to wire and install the bracket for a ceiling fan that they purchased, but they plan to take the fan with them when they leave, I wouldn’t do it either. It’s 1 thing to update and improve a unit in between tenants, but this is a horse of a different color. I can appreciate Busy’s passion, but am having trouble following how this thread went in the direction it did. How is going through with this request teaching the tenant anything? --72.93.xxx.xx

WHY sure!!! (by Omh [TX]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 5:53 PM

it’s not JKJ which I don’t understand either....some LL see the trees for the forest..... --107.77.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 6:10 PM

I personally am not suggesting going through with it as the tenant wanted to do it. I would only be willing to do it as a fixture that stays with the property and in writing as such and it would also depend on the tenant(is the tenant a PITA or a really good tenant). --73.120.xx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by JKJ [MA]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 7:13 PM

The fan isn’t the issue, the tenant is! --72.93.xxx.xx

WHY sure!!! (by Jeffrey [VA]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 7:25 PM

Hey myob, did I miss something? I'm not sure why you felt that my comment regarding busy's post had anything at all to do with my thoughts on your contributions. I thought the post was one of the most passionate I had seen in a long time and still think so. I love people who are passionate in what they do.

I also take you as a person who is passionate about what you do and because of that, I can appreciate a lot of what you have to say and have personally been inspired and befitted from many of your tips and insights. Why would I want you to stop??

I purposely aim personally benefit from as many perspectives as possible and glean from all. That's part of what makes this forum such a great resource for landlords. No one person has all the answers and all of us view things from our own personal experiences which are all limited to some degree.

For example, I'll address a couple of your comments directly in regard to what busy said: "... was more LaLa land then reality." and also "Busy their parents are suppose to be the teachers not the LLords."

I could be wrong (and forgive me for making assumptions), but to me a couple your comments are perfect example of how perhaps your own personal background and or perspectives has shaped your thinking.

In the neighborhood where I grew up, it definitely could NOT be assumed that all young people learned right and wrong from their parents. The truth is that parents were not always even present or available to be good role models. So often it was another adult who made a significant impact on the lives of many of the youth and yes even young adults (after High School) which turned their lives around for the better.

So to me, from my life experiences, a couple of your comments could be seen based more on LaLa land and not reality.

Not saying your perspective is wrong or that busy is wrong. Nor it wouldn't be fair to say one is based on LaLa land versus reality. They perspectives are just different based on the realities of each person. And I believe each person is making a significant contribution to the world in your own way. Whether that is converting dilapidated buildings into beauty or impacting lives for the better (or most often, somewhat a combination of both:).


WHY sure!!! (by RR78 [VA]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2020 11:06 PM

In our market we find it worth the cost to have ceiling lights in rooms. And 1 or 2 ceiling fans.

Fine if you dont.

But still see no harm with having a tenant pay for it if you feel that way.

If you feel an upgrade is worth it, pay for it.

If not then no problem. Tenant pays if they want it bad enough.

And of course if it does not actually hurt the property in anyway.

Like we do with storm doors. Not an added value and a maintenance problem. So tenant pays.

Wring for a fan can be used for ceiling light which is little to no maintenance. And would be a nice little upgrade.


WHY sure!!! (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Jun 20, 2020 1:05 AM

Busy helps keep me grounded - she reminds me why I got into this biz and how to be nice. LLing can make us cynical and grumpy.



WHY sure!!! (by OTC [TN]) Posted on: Jun 20, 2020 5:05 AM

This definitely turned into an interesting topic. I also see both perspectives and I can relate to both. This business can deliver a fulfillment factor from several avenues. One can be from a financial benefit. The other can come from a community impact benefit. As business owners, you can choose how much you want to cater/ focus on either. Nobody is right or wrong here. Both are just passionate about the approach that works for them. That is why this thread has so much traction. Both parties know their "WHY" and what "Values" that they strive to deliver. THAT IS THE TAKE HOME LESSON from this post for me. The debate is so lively because their "why" and what they "value" appear to be different and that is ok. Personally, I see value from both perspectives. I can relate to the volume of managing 60 plus units but I share the passion to help empower residents in communities that have been underserved. As a former teacher, I had some students that just didnt care and didnt have the self love to receive the lessons. However, when I did reach a student, it was a fulfillment that could not be simply measured with numbers. When striving to positively impact residents, it's very similar. Some residents will not work with you to help improve their own conditions. However, when you do and they accept your efforts, the experience makes the business aspect even sweeter. --68.169.xxx.xx

WHY sure!!! (by elliot [RI]) Posted on: Jun 20, 2020 8:14 AM

OTC, thanks for summing it up nicely.

It is such a thought provoking thread, much more meaningful than how to fix this and that mechanical stuff. That alone makes this forum so unique and precious. We all can co-exist here, agree to disagree.

My wife knows that I am very opinionated. So forgive me for being rude. For whatever reason, "hypocrisy" popped up in my head when I read along. We all have a bit of that I suspect.

Some aspects of the landlording business make it impossible for ME to reconcile my value system. Being a housing provider, provide clean/safe house to needy families; Being a for profit business, generating income so I can pay for my kids education, family living expense; being a christian, striving to be christ-like; being a human when you see another human, especially children of low income families live in sub par condition; being wronged (many times), being sued, misunderstood, etc.

Throughout the years of working with low income residents, I have developed this hypocrisy of continuing going to church and donating regularly, at the mean time treating people differently based on how I profile them. Not on skin color, not on income level, but on behavior as a human (you can use the word judgmental here). There are bunch section 8 tenants I respect and treat them accordingly, there are the ones I wish I never knew them.

When one of my section 8 tenants finished her education and landed a job, I hugged her and cheered for her (not very characteristic of me) cos it is rewarding to see a fellow human being moving towards the right direction (my version of right direction). Later on she was behind on her share of rent not due to hardship, but lack of discipline, sued me for slip and fall, got evicted.

I am sending out Notice to Vacate to a struggling mother with 3 or 4 school age kids, one or two has some kind of trouble, social worker visits reguarly per her neighbor. As you can see, I do not involve in tenants life, can't keep track how many kids they have, that kind of thing. She is living in a condition I wouldn't even want my kids set their foot in. She is not a mean person, but repeated house keeping issue (roach problem after numerous pest control services), constant complaints from immediate neighbor of the same 2 family house. The straw that broke camel's back was when I discovered that a known druggie whom I evicted couple years ago came to visit her and she lied to my face about continue associating with her. When I called her out and told her not lying to my face, she blurred out that I am not her man.

Like Myob said, I am not a social worker. I have my own 4 kids to worry about. I can't be my own kids' role model, not to mention single mother low income tenants'. I look in the mirror and know exactly who created this mess. The tough part is, When the little boy and little girl grow up in your rental, become teenagers and young adults, they still have the innocent look in their eyes and you are sending them notice, pack and leave. It disrupts their life and they will have a hard time to find a landlord who will take them. I choose to move on instead of giving them any more chances. I can't help the adult in the family, the kids will suffer as collateral damage. It reminded me the MBA class I took on corporate's social responsibility 18 years ago. I don't know if landlords have any in that capacity.

When I acquired a 9 units many years ago (my worst investment out of all the RE), I naively had the dream of opening up a shelter at the 9 units when I made it. Naively! It is not my calling and I don't have the compassion and capacity as of now. When I was working with the con artist, I was excited that we can start some program to help good kids who live in marginal families.

If you read so far and got lost, so am I. Guess I see myself in MYOB position and BUSY position. --98.110.xxx.xx

WHY sure!!! (by PG [SC]) Posted on: Jun 20, 2020 9:51 AM

Just to add a little flavor to the conversation I put a ceiling fan up about 6 months ago - to enhance the house not satisfy the tenant - most recent inspection I found a box fan running in the room.

And the thought of a tenant taking down a ceiling fan. That would be accident waiting to happen.

Yeah right may be the best answer.


WHY sure!!! (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Jun 20, 2020 10:27 AM

I have become hardened to this business after 35 years. I went into this as "Busy" has with all the grand thoughts of what I could do for people-- and myself.

Then as it became necessary to place more and different people in my places (80) "reality hit". They're just things (the rentals) and they're just "people". Some trick you to get in your place and destroy some (the majority)are the best you've ever met. Yes and I do love that.

So before you throw stones keep this in mind -- we-- all want what we have nurtured, since inception, to remain our dream. Great homes/rentals for the best people WE CAN RENT THEM TOO.

In 1986 when we started buying rentals had I known I would have a gun put into my right eye socket, been attacked by tenants pit bulls (several occasions) let loose-- one of which was going for my throat when the sheriff shot the dog or been jailed for a week for placing a tenants things in storage while she was in jail (so her stuff wouldn't be stolen) This ladies brother pleaded with her not to have me arrested-- his words-- "what other LL would put your stuff in storage for you"? (I was found innocent and she got 1 yr probation for lying cost me 8K in lawyer fees). Being disparaged in court by cruel and lying tenants who think nothing of lying under oath. How about the guy who had his water turned off and he pooped in the master bath and put a towel under the bath door so it wouldn't run into the bedroom and then did the same thing in the hall bath. How about the guys who turned a room in a house into a devil worship room-- I couldn't get anyone to work there. I'll stop because I have 10,000 stories of how people live and how my family cleaned up after them.

OK so back to the ceiling fan! Had the tenant said "I'll supply the ceiling fan if you can put it up and leave it when the lease is over" it would have been done already. The mere fact that she said "If I buy the bracket then I'll have to go in the attic to get it" was over the top. Not to forget this: they have the fan-- they brought it at a yard sale and it was in the garage waiting for me. She showed it. A note: here in GA if you put up something in a commercial place it must stay but not in Residential rental.


WHY sure!!! (by elliot [RI]) Posted on: Jun 20, 2020 12:30 PM

myob, thanks for sharing your stories. That made us human.. --98.110.xxx.xx

WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jun 20, 2020 12:46 PM

Haha! I’m laughing at all that was ‘read into’ what I wrote.

Way back in the very first post, nothing was being asked of the forum, other than maybe looking for affirmation of the decision with tenant that was already made. Maybe we need a ME TOO! movement for old landlords. Second-hand lions unite!

In my first response, I NEVER said to give THIS tenant the ceiling fan installation. I would have told her, as I mentioned in my first post, there is a lot more to it that just buying the light. I would give her education, not a ceiling fan. I also would point her in the direction of attractive looking oscillating fans, when I see them for sale, but, that’s just me. And, I mentioned that if one has many properties, one could simply put that info in a newsletter, because if one tenant wants fans, then others probably do as well. Newsletters are great for sending messages, without having a direct conversation with each and every customer. Problem is, just as many misread things in this thread, each tenant reads a newsletter from their own perspective.

Some points to consider:

I, speaking for just me, would not want to have tenants mucking about with electrical as they move out. Completely out of the question. So, for me, tenant wanting to supply electrical is a hard no. Either I get the equipment, or the project doesn’t go on. I do not ever want tenants mucking about with electrical, with the exception of doorbell wire. They can muck about with that. ( persons with more knowledge of electrical than I , and that is probably MOST of you, can set me straight if there are dangers to that, please.)

I also, do not just put things in because a tenant wants them. I did put in a ceiling fan after my tenant mentioned the poor lighting, but, as I said in that first response, the whole process was already thought out, thanks to recent threads on this forum about ceiling fans BEFORE the tenant mentioned the lighting. I had already noticed the poor lighting, and had already been thinking of having the fan installed., had already discussed with electrician. ( don’t think I mentioned that much detail in my first response,; some of you got it confused and thought I said to give tenant a ceiling fan. )

It is becoming easier and easier for me, as I gain experience, to simply say to a tenant, No. That improvement you want doesn’t get me anything, won’t get me increased rents, and those are sources of headaches. Those things are great things that you (tenant) can do when you buy a home and can either do the improvements yourself, or just go on Angie’s list and find someone . ( I throw out Angie’s list just cos it is well known. Might be a better source out there.) I’ve had requests for dishwashers, privacy fencing, new countertops. Point is, the improvements need to benefit the property in the future, not just this tenant now. And, need to either add to cash flow, eliminate risk, or both.

And then there are the requests by tenants wanting to change out the existing ceiling fixtures with ones they bought, just to match their decor. Such a hard and fast No on that.

I would hope that by the time I have been at this for many more years, that I would have systems in place, answers at the ready. To read further along in this thread, we find out that myob sent handyman to investigate attic, had discussionS with tenant, and now we find out this is some USED ceiling fan bought at a GARAGE sale. For those of you who HAVE NOT much experience with garage sales- be wary, very wary of anything electrical, mechanical sold at a garage sale. ESPECIALLY at sales in ‘move-up’ neighborhoods. Those people will sell broken crapola without batting an eye. And lie to your face about it. If you cannot test it on site, assume it’s broken. The seller of a broken, wobbly, unbalanced ceiling fan will justify it saying, ‘ Oh, someone will want this for parts.’ I ran a 4-H fundraiser rummage sale for many years. Families would donate crapola like that, then ask for receipts for their BIG donations to take off on their taxes. So, that aside (garage sale purchases- be wary,) I mention ONLY to educate those not familiar with purchasing used electrical. A garage sale fan might wobble all to heck. As has been mentioned in this thread, and the other recent threads about ceiling fans, a brand new ceiling fan, complete with limited warranty, and, when NOT in a pandemic shut-down can be returned to get a replacement if when the handyma’am or the electrician puts the ceiling fan up and fan doesn’t function properly. So, why would someone bother with a used garage sale fan THAT the TENANT OWNS? As I mentioned in my first response, the ceiling fan is the INEXPENSIVE part of installing a ceiling fan in a room with no ceiling junction box. Would not be worth having more than ONE conversation with the tenant about.

A long in the tooth landlord knows this stuff, or is wasting time. Sometimes, us old coots just like to roar and winge about others. I get that. But, it gets tedious to me, to hear complaint after complaint about tenants are demanding, tenants are stooped, tenants waste money, tenants blah, blah, blah... As I have said many other times on this forum, not cool to have disrespect for one’s customers. And, as others have said many times, they are tenants for a reason. It was also fun to read all of the read-into, me too! and snarky jabs.

MYOB, yes, you have years on me in terms of managing properties, and gobs more properties than I’d ever want to manage. I won’t change you mind on anything, nor do I aim to. It was pretty darn funny to read you become practically unglued when I described some of my altruistic endeavors. I only got on my high horse about it all because you, my friend, are very quick to attempt shut people down when they see things differently than you.

Oh, and don’t use your real name when in bragadocious mode. Nor your wife’s name. IF you don’t want them known. ( boy! Howdy, had to work hard to finagle bragadocious into this post. You and me both, myob. We got horns, and we like to toot’ ‘em.)



WHY sure!!! (by Jeffrey [VA]) Posted on: Jun 20, 2020 12:48 PM

myob, after reading the few stories you shared, I'm ready to getaway on a cruise with you.

As some of the regular website visitors know, I have been doing Landlord "Getaway" Cruises and retreats for 30 years. There are different reasons why landlords are glad to "getaway" with us and you hit on a couple of them:) --70.161.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by JB [OR]) Posted on: Jun 20, 2020 1:57 PM

From my perspective, it is pretty easy to have Busy's attitude about helping point your tenants in the right direction and maybe even helping them to make better decisions when you have but a few places.

But the more units you have, the less you are able or willing to do all of that hand-holding. Been there, done that! --73.25.xx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by LindaJ [NY]) Posted on: Jun 20, 2020 2:47 PM

So many times posts here do not tell the whole story. It was a used fan, that is not what was assumed from the original post. That can make a difference. But I also want to mention, that maybe, just maybe, the tenant thought she was doing the right thing by removing the fan when she leaves. A simple reply to her that if LL installs a new fan, then she would have to leave it. May or may not change her mind.

I, like busy, am happy to explain things to people when I know something, expect something or how I think things through. They can learn from it, or not, but I always appreciated and still do when someone explains something to me. This is why I am there for every repair that I don't do myself. I can learn, I can ask for the reasons to do it a certain way.

Yes, having 300 rentals is a different mindset from 3, but it doesn't hurt to see how others do things. For the day you might downsize to 3 or gain 300. --108.4.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Jun 20, 2020 2:58 PM

We all want to think the best. Maybe you missed this too. She wanted me to buy the ceiling joist kit so when she left she could leave that. As she said if she buys it she'll take it when she leaves. She and I knew exactly what she meant-- used fan or not made no difference at that point.

I also like to explain things but in this case she was TELLING ME WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

Funny though! --99.103.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jun 20, 2020 3:41 PM

Should we ever meet in person, myob, I’ll gladly buy a round of top shelf drinks for you and yours, me and mine ( better halves, that is.)

The stories you have to share! --70.92.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Jun 21, 2020 8:57 AM

Busy well thanks. I've enjoyed this post and all the thought it provoked. That is the aim of the forum I believe. I did notice my LaLa land comment drew much attention and I have to be honest and say it wasn't meant to be a mean comment and I think I started off that post saying so. I was trying, maybe I missed the mark, to express how we LL's want things to go like a story book tail. More of a comic expression than derogatory. So if that's how it was taken it wasn't meant that way.

Busy you can or maybe can't imagine what we have been through since 86 but it's been fantastic. When we pooled our first purchase offer and had every penny we had, 30K, out there and it was scary. As fear subsided and quantity of SFH's increased fear was much less. We invested 30K in 86 and now own several million dollars worth of RE free and clear. So no amount of whinning on my part can diminish that accomplishment---- but it has made me cynical of our system in this country.

Cheers to you and yours. --99.103.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jun 21, 2020 11:25 AM

Thanks, myob. Part of me has a little ( tiny) smidge of envy at the investment you made in 1986. We ( dear husband and I) were in the military in San Antonio in 1983. ( when we were dating just after I got out of high school, I told him when I turned 18, I was going in the military. He stammered, said, “ wait. I want to get married. “ So, I cut him a deal. Haha! We honeymooned in basic training. Our TIs arranged for us to have a meal together. He ate with my platoon. Then, in the day room after, the TIs had fun asking my whole platoon about our ‘date.’ ( What did she eat? Nothing! The whole platoon yelled. I was too excited to take a bite.) Anyway, once stationed in San Antonio after tech school, I started looking at little houses, and some big older houses in the king’s hill area ( cannot remember if that is the name, too long ago) and on the edge of the king’s hill area in San Antonio. Could not get my husband to consider rentals. Read that yellow landlording book from the library through and through (author’s name escapes me now, but Jeffrey knew him. Passed a couple of years ago. ) Could NOT convince my husband to consider rentals. Did some community service activities involving rehabbing houses on the east side of San Antonio. Could not get husband to consider rentals. Talked RE investing with anyone who invested. Could not get husband to consider.

One thing DH ( dear husband) was on board with though, was saving. In a big way. We lived off of my income, saved every penny of his, and since. he went into military with an associates degree in computer science, he got two stripes when he came out of basic. And got promoted below the zone. So, we saved the higher income ( unheard of!) Monthly I went to the credit union and bought CDs that were paying as much as 17%!

Finally got my husband to invest in stocks though. I made many of the first picks. I had what seemed to be ‘women’s intuition‘ on stocks, ( we have some of that in my family, like AllyM. Not quite as strong, but enough...) though I could state in financial terms the basis for my ‘intuition’ as well. At least my husband took to stocks, still invests and day trades. ( still gets annoyed that I can look at a couple of balance sheets, read a couple of articles about a company, and then ‘just know’ which to buy. Though I don’t spend time doing that, doesn’t interest me anymore.) But still, we are doing well financially.

I got out in 1987, didn’t want both of us to be active duty once we had kids. I focused my energies on being a good mom. ( best investment I could have ever made, bar none!) But, as we moved around the US, I continued to look at real estate, went to the local library and checked out that yellow landlording book with each new edition. Had a HUGE opportunity in Nebraska. Still, couldn’t get him to budge on investing in RE. He was out of military by then, we ended up back in Wisconsin (Grandparents were here, this momma wanted to stop moving. And our son needed us to stop moving. Each move was so hard on that kid, he’s ( maybe) a bit autistic, doesn’t handle change well.) I worked in education as an aide, found I have a knack for it, still real estate never left my mind, but housing prices here were outrageous. I thought things seemed so overbought in 1996, and we hadn’t even seen the real estate bubble yet. Well, that bubble finally burst. So, I started looking. My husband said to our now grown kids, “ Just ignore her. It goes away, it always does.”

Well, it didn’t . Thanks to this, and other forums ( which have changed dramatically, and not all for the better.) I figured out how to come up with cash to buy properties without touching our joint accounts, because he wasn’t having any of it. Took him a good two years before he started to admit RE was a good choice, for me. He still stays well away..

All of that stalling on getting investing in real estate , the detour through special education ( which I loved! Give me an obnoxious fifth grader with a bad attitude anyday! I’ll have him doing his schoolwork in a week, smiling occasionally in two weeks. Ha! Well, not quite so fast, a little hyperbole there.) But, anyway, that certainly has affected my outlook . One thing I realized then and now, I can be great in the small classroom setting. Special ed is all small class size. Give me a class of thirty students, with no learning disabilities, I would be LOST. I would suck at that. So, I have this ONE on ONE focus on landlording, and certainly that overwhelmingly colours my opinions on anything landlording. The same techniques that work one on one in education do’t always work if applied to a whole class setting. Yep, I forget that. The large classes have to have systems, treat the kids uniformly, and that would for sure be the same in RE. Yep, we’ve lived a lot of places, and sometimes LaLaLand,! Heehee. --70.92.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Jun 22, 2020 9:50 AM

Busy thanks for sharing that. --99.103.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jun 22, 2020 10:26 AM

Sorry it was waaay too long. I blame that upon my husband bugging me to help with a project. Should have cut that tome in half! --70.92.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by mike [CA]) Posted on: Jun 22, 2020 4:29 PM

in all the states i've dealt in the minute they attach something to my house it becomes mine...it's a fixture. simply advise IN WRITING that even if they buy it...it's yours. fans are cheap ($100 delivered for a good hunter at costco), it will cost more to run a circuit and place a hanger. so a better way to treat who "owns" it is to let them pay YOUR GUY for the install labor and state clearly they OWN NOTHING. remember, you're doing this for THEM.

The last thing you need at a turnover is a duel over a fan or to learn they fried a circuit when they self-helped it off the ceiling. you typically learn such things well after the deposit has been accounted for.

any good lease treats such matters as this. such work is done by electricians, not handymen and CERTAINLY NOT TENANTS. you'd feel like a heel if they corrupted a circuit or didn't hang it on a firm cleat and it fell someday and whacked their kid or ruined some furniture --66.27.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by mike [CA]) Posted on: Jun 22, 2020 4:52 PM

those who have a social element to their LL'ing are doing what they see as proper, but please do not ascribe indifference to those of us who do not wear that virtue signalling on our sleeve. the fact that folks are here is good proof to me that they have best practices in mind.

i completely disagree that this forum has "changed dramatically, and not all for the better". --66.27.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jun 22, 2020 5:16 PM

Oops! Mike, perhaps I was Not clear. OTHER forums I also used to read have changed, and not all for the better. Possibly I stuck a comma in the wrong place there. Sorry for the confusion. This one is great. People discuss tough issues, refrain from being really hateful. Good ideas are discussed, though some issues get labeled as ‘virtue signaling.’, so some issues are taboo ........

Did not mean to be ‘virtue signaling. ‘ Sorry, I hurt your sensibilities..... ( heehee)

Jeffrey, this, this is why not more discussion ‘virtue signaling’ topics. --172.58.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by Dee Ann [WI]) Posted on: Jun 26, 2020 10:44 AM

WHY I became a landlord...I fell in love with a house I wanted to purchase when I had a good job at the phone company. It just happened to be a duplex...wasn't looking for one! I was engaged at the time. I purchased it with my savings and great paychecks coming in. Fiance promised to pay half once his motorcycle was sold. Didn't happen, got disengaged down the road. Eventually was fired due to a second hand smoke issue that made me so ill I had to seek a specialist to bring me back to health (after I was fired) to prove to the company and eventually sued them. Got married to a new man somewhere in there. With the lawsuit settlement, I bought our next duplex, and the next. Landed in the hospital one morning after a cerebral hemmorage. 10 days later was home recovering. Soon after we bought a duplex from a former landlord of mine. Bought our last duplex after I missed the auction that no one bid on it! Walked a check into and bought it from the bank. It's right behind our current house (still the first duplex and we still live there, with no no one underneath us for a couple years now...on purpose). The moral of my story is this...Whenever something failed me in life, I always had something to provide income. So far during COVID this is remaining true. And it still will provide income for awhile. On another Mr. Landlord I mentioned it has been a great source of socialization for me as my hubby works long hours. Yesterday I met a newbie moving in. I loved hearing the stories behind the posters and paintings she had hung. She was excited to tell me about their history, and it was very interesting. Two days before another newbie invited me to show how she had set up her place. What a great time learning more about her and seeing the place from her perspective. I never had children, but some of my residents make me proud to feel like the best mom ever (without the diaper part) LOL --75.11.xx.xx

WHY sure!!! (by Dee Ann [WI]) Posted on: Jun 26, 2020 10:45 AM

BUSY, curious, where are you in WI? I'm in Milwaukee. --75.11.xx.xx

WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jun 26, 2020 11:18 AM

North side. Between 30th and 64th., Silver Spring, Hampton.

I love your story. Yep, for me, it’s a people business. (disclaimer, and so I don’t want to start somethin’ again: I have no issue with landlords who aren’t so involved in tenant’s lives, in fact, those landlords do the BULK of the work of housing our nation. And, a darn FINE job of it too! I just have an ‘ inner social worker’ who demands I let her out. Maybe just trying to compensate for the horrid things I experienced as a kid. It weren’t no bed of roses, unless thorns count! Mebbe I’m just trying to heal myself, so I don’t end up in prison like much of my family... gotta keep crazy in check, or it can ruin lives!) Oops, well that was too much! ( and I’m in check *grin* )

Dee Ann, maybe we’ve even sat near each other a5 a bootcamp, or an Apartment Association meeting. It’s a small world, and a darn good one! --70.92.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by DavemanUT [TN]) Posted on: Jun 28, 2020 4:11 PM

Wow. A tenant wanting an overhead light/fan in their room. The nerve!?! (end scarcasm) --98.193.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by Dee Ann [WI]) Posted on: Jun 28, 2020 10:09 PM

Depending on how many "SURPRISE" amenities I add to WOW my new residents, if they asked for more, I would have to call that an upgrade to charge for. I always try to add an upgrade they don't know if coming. Today I checked in a young couple that didn't know they were gettingm a dishwasher, patio and a 2 car garage and driveway exclusively. You should've seen their faces! Due to COVID they were unable to see the place in person. But because they were moving from one of my places to another,larger unit. They trusted that I would give them a great place. And I was so happy to hand the place over to them, knowing they would take care of it because they loved it. --75.11.xx.xx

WHY sure!!! (by Cjo’h [CT]) Posted on: Jul 8, 2020 4:29 PM

I always install ceiling fans before the tenant arrives the cheapest one that I can come across,which is hard to do these daysSeems like the Chinese are catching on fast.......................... ...................... .........................charlie --32.214.xxx.xx

WHY sure!!! (by Cjo’h [CT]) Posted on: Jul 8, 2020 4:37 PM

6. X. 6.........I come from the Old School and theOlde Country and do everything myself,even though I may not know how.........................charlie --32.214.xxx.xx

WHY sure!!! (by Cjo’h [CT]) Posted on: Jul 8, 2020 4:49 PM

Busy,will you buy a round for this poor Immigrant,even though it may not be returned .....................................................................charlie --32.214.xxx.xx

WHY sure!!! (by Cjo’h [CT]) Posted on: Jul 8, 2020 5:07 PM

Deanna,hard to get. to sleep on time even witb white noise,even harder to wake up at a respectable time........................ ........................charlie --32.214.xxx.xx

WHY sure!!! (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2020 4:28 PM

Charlie, I’d say I would, but I had said that before last convention...then totally leaked out on it. Had a bout of the megrims going on.... was tough to even go to classes at convention... it happens from time to time.

However, if this dang little virus ever settles down enough, I have already told my husband I would like to attend your Irishfest. I’d be happy to buy a round ( not two, cuz I am a lightweight when it comes to any mind altering substance. My doctor says I am medically what they call ‘ a cheap date’ . Lol! ) --70.92.xxx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2020 7:50 PM

Charlie, I do what I can myself as well but I did not come from the Olde Country although I might like to see it one day.

What made you come to the US?

Do you miss Ireland? --73.120.xx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by Cjo’h [CT]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 5:41 PM

6. X. 6. Yes I do miss Ireland,but you have to remember the lyric from away back” The savage loves his native shore though rude the soil and chill the air” What comes after that,I just don’t remember,I ‘d say age has something to do with that.Whenever you get a chance to go there,I have no doubt you’ll have a great time,just remember , if you rent a car,you have to drive on the left side of the road and that’s when most accidents occur..Sometimes taking a Tour with a Bus Company can eliveate that.Especially if you stop into one of the Local PubsA singing one ,That is....................ěęcharlie.......................îęîęîęîęîę îęěęěęěę --32.214.xxx.xx

WHY sure!!! (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2020 6:12 PM

Thanks for the tip Charlie. That would be a new experience for sure. --73.120.xx.xxx

WHY sure!!! (by Sandy [CO]) Posted on: Jul 16, 2020 12:41 AM

Interesting post.

I’ve been thinking of taking out all my ceiling fans!

I’m not sure that they are an upgrade, (my sfr’s have a/c). They look dated, and collect dirt.

And what a PITA to clean the blades at tenant turnover!

My motto lately has been “Simplify, simplify, simplify!”

Especially when I’m cleaning another Fricking ceiling fan blade with huge dust bunnies hanging over the blades, YUK!

Anyway thanks for the viewpoints, maybe this will provide some alternative thoughts.

MYOB, btw I think it’s all about the tenants attitude. It’s a warning sign. She wants to dictate to you. I’d be inclined to say no, or respond with my own guidelines. Like others have said... that she pays for it all and leaves it all.

It’s not about the ceiling fan, it’s all about the attitude and who’s in control.

Just my two cents.


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