Tenant asks for us to put up ceiling fan in master Bedroom. No current fixture or box in place.

Ok. Tenant said "I will buy ceiling fan". Asks us to buy the ceiling joist bracket so "when they leave the bracket can stay" (since it would be ours). As she said-- if she buys it they'll have to get in the attic to remove it to take it with them.

So let me see here. We run wire to ceiling center-- put up OUR bracket to hold a ceiling fan (their fan). When they leave they take fan and leave us a hole in the ceiling? Where fan USE to BE?

We buy the ceiling fans. Cheap white ones from Home Depot. They work fine, they last a long time, they stay with the house.

It's too hot here not to have fans, so we put them in every house where the ceiling is high enough! And we've install walls fans in rooms where they are not (those don't require special wiring, they just plug in.)

We always put in ceiling fans wherever we can. They look nice, are affordable if you shop right, and people like them.

We like a ceiling fixture in each room especially bedrooms.

In your case we would let them choose.

Do nothing, a set price or rent increase to cover cost of a upgrade they requested.

Depends on class of rental. C or below? Heck no. B or A? yes.

I follow the rules found in the Section 8 Bible regarding "eliminators". They have a list of things to get rid of ASAP in Class C or below unit because they do not get you any added rent, often get abused, and are a pain to fix.

Excuse me folks -- this house has central AC.

I have some units that an extra bedroom only has a wall sconce for lighting because there is no attic above the ceiling and hard to install a light or ceiling fan box.

Also some tenants will choose a terrible ceiling fan, not UL approved and a dangerous design.

What the tenant doesn’t ‘get’ is the cost of the electrician. Sure, a fan cost hundred bucks, electrician? But, tenants don’t know that. Me? I would explain that. And, after all the discussion of fans on this forum lately, when a tenant mentioned the very poor lighting in the master bedroom, I decided to spring for the fan ( and the electrician.) Now, certainly, I had already been considering this, and had figured out long ago what I wanted in terms of switches, placement, and if the existing wall sconces stays or goes (stays.)

Course, I DO like long term tenants. For one thing, it’s much better for the kids if they have the stability of staying into one place for most of their childhood. Also helps the neighborhood as a whole, especially if tenants make friends with neighbors, which I strongly encourage. So, for me, not churning tenant’s is one of the best things we can do as landlords to help stabilize neighborhoods, help reduce crime, help reduce effects of poverty.

Didn’t have the info that the house has central A/C, but, even so, at our home, we use ceiling fans with our central A/C. A rotating stand fan would do a better job ( to me) than a box fan. But, all of that doesn’t negate the main fact- tenant doesn’t know the costs of the electrician. Those hundred dollar fans look nice, what’s your problem landlord? (. tenant might be thinking...) landlord to tenant, ‘ An electrician is going to cost buckets more than that, and the fan cannot just be removed when someone goes. But, there are really, really nice looking oscillating fans that just plug in, so those can provide the air movement and white noise, AND they are very easy to take to the next place.‘ ( tenant, “Oh, didn’t think of that.” But, tenant hasn’t seen the nice-looking oscillating fans, still wants ceiling fans.) And then, next time I saw one of those very nice looking oscillating fans, when I was out and about, I would snap a picture of that and send that tenant a text. Or, if dealing with dozens of units, rather than just my handful, it would go in the monthly newsletter. Because if one tenant would like the air movement and masking noise, others would as well.

Tenant wanted to install her own shower head (my Moen was brand new). I told her she could buy what she wanted, but only my plumber can install so she’d have to pay him twice (to install hers and then reinstall mine when she left). She changed her mind.

Funny story: tenant has broken ceiling fan blade (new fan, bed under fan). Now I know her young child was jumping on the bed and broke it although she claimed she didn’t know how it broke.

I don’t put fans in smaller bedrooms kids use as when they have bunk beds or loft beds it just doesn’t turn out well. After repairing the fan in the master bedroom she asked if I would install a ceiling fan in her son’s bedroom. I declined and suggested an oscillating floor fan. Her reply, “We tried that, but he broke it.”

Busy I was shaking my head about the long term tenants?-- Kids coming into a neighborhood? Living there for ever? Making friends with others in the hood? and let's see what else OH reduce crime?

Let me throw this out there. You do all that and here comes the LL's from this site who just drop anyone in a place? What then?

Funny I'm trying to keep tenants from entrenching themselves in my properties and you want them-- and now their grand kids?

Not saying your wrong-- but reading that post--- well Busy-- you are way to deep into your residents in my opinion.

So, what’s wrong with my post? I, for one, was shaking my head at the post you made about the riots, the poverty, the racism, yet you churn tenants.....

Methinks social issues are to you what electrical issues are to your tenants. There is a whole iceberg under the water that contributes to social unrest, racism, poor outcomes for disadvantaged kids. I, as a landlord, feel STRONGLY that as landlords we can AND should encourage stability, encourage learning, encourage tenants to become the better part of their neighborhoods. Not just the NEXT! in a long line of revolving door, don’t get involved, don’t improve the neighborhood people.

If the tenant takes her fan, it is pretty easy to just replace it with another or a light fixture. It really isn't a hole in the ceiling that you are left with.

I agree with Busy about tenants and neighborhoods, but I also understand that may not work in your area, myob. The nice thing about this forum is getting feedback and ideas from all over the continent, from all sorts of business models in many different neighborhood type. But you have to find what works for you.

In my case, I did as Robert J and used a decorative chain and wire in an 1850s house without a ceiling fixture. It wasn't that much effort. Good tenants are now even happier. (for PITA tenants, I would probably do nothing)

Yes, I am way too deep in WANTING PEOPLE TO HAVE A BETTER LIFE!

I don’t just write some post about, oh, the racism, oh, the social unrest, and say , oh, SOMEBODY should do something. Oh, cops should change, statues should come down, teachers should be paid more.... should, should, should, should, should, should.

Landlording is something I CAN DO. Yes, somebody SHOULD do something. And I am SOMEBODY!

All the negatives in our country will never be turned to positive if we don’t teach, we don’t educate. And that isn’t something that stops when the person gets out of high school.

And, yes, I HAVE turned tenants from being the neighbors nobody wanted into being neighbors people were happy to live next to. It can be done! And, I have moved on ( out of my houses) those families that just did NOT want to learn how to get along. One family, I saw Mom a couple of years later, she said it was best thing that happened. Her grown sons turned some things around ( for now... without someone guiding them, or giving them a kick in the arse....)

My family knows how proud I am of the tenants when they make good choices, continue to grow, have better lives, raise their kids better. I would MUCH rather spend free time on teaching than to go on any , in my way of thinking, stooped, wasteful cruises where hoards of tourist trample all off the beautiful spots in the world, destroying them with their very presence. I’d rather create beauty right in my own city.

Go plant a tree people. Even better, show your tenants,, and their kids how to plant a tree.

Shake your head at this, Don. I just dropped of three beautifully repainted wooden planter boxes to go around the base of a Shademaster Honeylocust that I planted in a backyard last year. Someone had pulled some of the lower branches off that tree last year. I’ve had that happen before. It’s sometimes parents getting a switch for their kids’ booties. Sometimes it’s the kids themselves playing with the tree. So, I had a talk with all tenants and their guests about leaving those branches alone- the tree needs them to produce energy to grow.

So, when I saw these three wooden plantar boxes put out for the garbage in my own city, I snagged them. They badly needed a paint job, I had many cans of spray paint in my basement that I wanted to clear out. Including two cans of hammered metal spray paint in a silvery blue that I had used on trim on that very house where these boxes would go. So, repainted the boxes, filled them with good potting soil from my own stash ( I don’t BUY potting soil, I glean it, refurbish it, but that’s a whole other topic,) dropped off the planters, AND dropped off a paper lunch sack with last year’s marigold blooms, AND WRITTEN directions, complete with illustrations, on the bag. Tenant was excited! She has mentioned twice how she is going to plant those seeds with her little nieces who visit a lot.

Doing that little project cost me nothing, was a relaxing way to spend MY time ( gardening, painting, digging in dirt, illustrating... check! All things I love to do! Teaching kids how to garden , so the next generation gets out in the sun and digs in the dirt. Awesome sauce!) Tenant might, or might not get those marigolds planted. Of course, I hope she does. Nothing says summer is here TO ME like the smell of marigold seeds. I want those little ones to know that smell, and think of a nice sunny day when they planted flower seeds with their favorite Aunt. Now, I know my tenant is busy, she is VERY hardworking, but I also have discovered over the seven years she has been my tenant, that she likes to water plants in the yard ( as do I. Mmmm... sunshine, hear water trickle, see plants thrive...) and I KNOW that getting out in the yard is VERY VERY good for mental health. Something everyone living in a busy city, with lots of things pulling them in all kinds of directions could use.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy better use of my time, more enjoyable FOR ME than going on a cruise!

MYOB,

I think you will find more LL then not. That a ceiling fan is worth the cost. With better long term tenants.

And could depend on your market.

Busy, did someone hit a nerve? If so, I am so glad it prompted you to say more:).

I so love and greatly appreciate your passion for what you do!! Thanks for taking the time to more fully share your thoughts, inspiration and passion. Your post above was one of the most powerful I think have ever read on this forum.

Sounds to me like myob and busy have simply had different experiences and cater to differ types of tenants.

Personally I fall right in the middle of the two differing opinions. I lean more towards the busy mindset but it’s because I’m good at picking quality tenants but over thirty plus years of being a landlord I completely get myob’s mindset as well. I’ve had those tenants too, until I learned. Some people do not appreciate what they have, they don’t respect your efforts or property and trying to teach them anything will fall on deaf ears.

There is a market for those people and it sounds like myob has found it and approaches his reality appropriately. No amount of gentle behavior coaching or pretty flowers is going to fix them.

And even those who seem to be the best of tenants can turn on you in an instant.

Unlike most "I AM NOT A SOCIAL WORKER". I have a business to run with 63 families with 300 people. Ok maybe when I had 2 or 4 homes back in the OL days-- yea I could and did have that attitude. Frankly I've been shaken way to may times. Gee I did this family right and WHAM I get it jammed.

As I've said many times here and say it again: as long as it's going the way the Resident wants-- you are the greatest. We use to say this at work one "ah S**T" cancels out 1000 attaboys.

My responsibilities do not allow me to live in a fantasy world but reality. I have to give 300 people a safe place to live. I have to ask the responsible parties to act accordingly and SET GOOD examples. I am but a pea in a pod.

You are "wanting to give a better life" but they are not accepting your generosity?

Not sure why the cruise reference? You mean my time off? Guess that's fair game?

I digress: many have missed the point of the post. I have a full time guy who can do it. In fact he went in the attic to see what would be needed while she was there. So here's the bottom line. I never asked for compensation. Never asked for wire or even bracket. RATHER THAN TENANT suggesting (since she really needs it) that she will buy the ceiling fan 69.00 AND LEAVE IT WHEN SHE DEPARTS if we would do the installation. That's how a caring person would approach it-- how a considerate person would do it. Notice none of you even suggested that? So again it's not working together-- it's me! Me! Me! .... all over again.

Sorta Blonde, start with printing up two copies of your area’s trash schedules. One gets taped really well on the underside of the trash bin. ( leave no paper exposed to moisture, tape over whole schedule.) The other gets taped inside a kitchen cabinet. Of course, you have to do the taping, tenants don’t have tape.

Myob, excellent point. And the reason I would have said no as well.

I recently had a tenant ask if we would put new flooring in. The current flooring is laminate (not something I put in). It is aged and she keeps the house spotless. I would have liked to accommodate her but it is too much work to try to replace an entire houses flooring while someone is living there. She approached it by saying they would buy all the materials if we would install it.

They really meant well. But I have no doubt they would have chosen something cheaper than I would use and they know several of my other tenants so word would get around and it would come back to bite me.

Not to be harsh busy but while you're finding old planters and marigold seeds and digging in the dirt. Telling tenants not to rip the lower branches off the trees for switches to use on their kids behinds while your doing that --- some of us are out there finding that dilapidated house that needs fix up for a deserving family. We're out there cleaning up some of the most disgusting places and so neglected.... to convert to something of beauty for a family to LIVE IN.

You want to do some good-- find that trashed house and return it to some family in need. I don't have spray cans of paint to deal with but buckets upon buckets of paint that allows my residents to live in not just a decent house but great housing. It's up to them to keep it that way.

What I found over the top was the teaching them-- Busy their parents are suppose to be the teachers not the LLords. If they haven't (tenants) learned by the start of HS whats right and wrong-- you or I as a LL and all the disparaging remarks made about LL's can never do it.

The majority of people look down their nose at LL's and fact they hate the LL.

Jeffery I'm sorry but that post, to me, was more LaLa land then reality in this current climate facing LL's.

This has certainly become an interesting post and just over ceilings fans.

I think LisaFL said it well, treat people(even tenants) the way you want to be treated. That is basically what Busy seems to do a very good job at. I also try to follow that approach with my tenants but they still need to be aware of who is in charge. My tenants and I are getting along well. Like Busy, I also prefer long term tenants. That said, I am aware that you(myob) do not want long term tenants and you make it work well for you. I also agree where in the end that they really don't care about the LL.

Now, on to the ceiling fans. My SFH rental and my own house are early 1900's and have high ceilings and larger windows for air circulation prior to the invention of A/C or HVAC. I have ceiling fans in both houses. The ceiling fans help pull the hot air down to be cooled by the HVAC and I think it even helps lower the cost of cooling. My tenants love them and use them all of the time. I bought the rental in 2010 and the ceiling fans were already there. The same fans are still going strong.

My tenant has a hybrid car(VOLT) and wanted a car charger so he could charge his car at home. He said that he would buy the charger and pay for installation. I told him that I would agree to a car charger if he agreed to leave it with the house when he(they) moved and he agreed. I know have a 240 volt car charger at my college area rental at no cost to me. So, that is my example of the suggestion that you referred to.

Busy, myob is the cruse king. LOL

Hey myob, did I miss something? I'm not sure why you felt that my comment regarding busy's post had anything at all to do with my thoughts on your contributions. I thought the post was one of the most passionate I had seen in a long time and still think so. I love people who are passionate in what they do.

I also take you as a person who is passionate about what you do and because of that, I can appreciate a lot of what you have to say and have personally been inspired and befitted from many of your tips and insights. Why would I want you to stop??

I purposely aim personally benefit from as many perspectives as possible and glean from all. That's part of what makes this forum such a great resource for landlords. No one person has all the answers and all of us view things from our own personal experiences which are all limited to some degree.

For example, I'll address a couple of your comments directly in regard to what busy said: "... was more LaLa land then reality." and also "Busy their parents are suppose to be the teachers not the LLords."

I could be wrong (and forgive me for making assumptions), but to me a couple your comments are perfect example of how perhaps your own personal background and or perspectives has shaped your thinking.

In the neighborhood where I grew up, it definitely could NOT be assumed that all young people learned right and wrong from their parents. The truth is that parents were not always even present or available to be good role models. So often it was another adult who made a significant impact on the lives of many of the youth and yes even young adults (after High School) which turned their lives around for the better.

So to me, from my life experiences, a couple of your comments could be seen based more on LaLa land and not reality.

Not saying your perspective is wrong or that busy is wrong. Nor it wouldn't be fair to say one is based on LaLa land versus reality. They perspectives are just different based on the realities of each person. And I believe each person is making a significant contribution to the world in your own way. Whether that is converting dilapidated buildings into beauty or impacting lives for the better (or most often, somewhat a combination of both:).

In our market we find it worth the cost to have ceiling lights in rooms. And 1 or 2 ceiling fans.

Fine if you dont.

But still see no harm with having a tenant pay for it if you feel that way.

If you feel an upgrade is worth it, pay for it.

If not then no problem. Tenant pays if they want it bad enough.

And of course if it does not actually hurt the property in anyway.

Like we do with storm doors. Not an added value and a maintenance problem. So tenant pays.

Wring for a fan can be used for ceiling light which is little to no maintenance. And would be a nice little upgrade.

Busy helps keep me grounded - she reminds me why I got into this biz and how to be nice. LLing can make us cynical and grumpy.

BRAD

OTC, thanks for summing it up nicely.

It is such a thought provoking thread, much more meaningful than how to fix this and that mechanical stuff. That alone makes this forum so unique and precious. We all can co-exist here, agree to disagree.

My wife knows that I am very opinionated. So forgive me for being rude. For whatever reason, "hypocrisy" popped up in my head when I read along. We all have a bit of that I suspect.

Some aspects of the landlording business make it impossible for ME to reconcile my value system. Being a housing provider, provide clean/safe house to needy families; Being a for profit business, generating income so I can pay for my kids education, family living expense; being a christian, striving to be christ-like; being a human when you see another human, especially children of low income families live in sub par condition; being wronged (many times), being sued, misunderstood, etc.

Throughout the years of working with low income residents, I have developed this hypocrisy of continuing going to church and donating regularly, at the mean time treating people differently based on how I profile them. Not on skin color, not on income level, but on behavior as a human (you can use the word judgmental here). There are bunch section 8 tenants I respect and treat them accordingly, there are the ones I wish I never knew them.

When one of my section 8 tenants finished her education and landed a job, I hugged her and cheered for her (not very characteristic of me) cos it is rewarding to see a fellow human being moving towards the right direction (my version of right direction). Later on she was behind on her share of rent not due to hardship, but lack of discipline, sued me for slip and fall, got evicted.

I am sending out Notice to Vacate to a struggling mother with 3 or 4 school age kids, one or two has some kind of trouble, social worker visits reguarly per her neighbor. As you can see, I do not involve in tenants life, can't keep track how many kids they have, that kind of thing. She is living in a condition I wouldn't even want my kids set their foot in. She is not a mean person, but repeated house keeping issue (roach problem after numerous pest control services), constant complaints from immediate neighbor of the same 2 family house. The straw that broke camel's back was when I discovered that a known druggie whom I evicted couple years ago came to visit her and she lied to my face about continue associating with her. When I called her out and told her not lying to my face, she blurred out that I am not her man.

Like Myob said, I am not a social worker. I have my own 4 kids to worry about. I can't be my own kids' role model, not to mention single mother low income tenants'. I look in the mirror and know exactly who created this mess. The tough part is, When the little boy and little girl grow up in your rental, become teenagers and young adults, they still have the innocent look in their eyes and you are sending them notice, pack and leave. It disrupts their life and they will have a hard time to find a landlord who will take them. I choose to move on instead of giving them any more chances. I can't help the adult in the family, the kids will suffer as collateral damage. It reminded me the MBA class I took on corporate's social responsibility 18 years ago. I don't know if landlords have any in that capacity.

When I acquired a 9 units many years ago (my worst investment out of all the RE), I naively had the dream of opening up a shelter at the 9 units when I made it. Naively! It is not my calling and I don't have the compassion and capacity as of now. When I was working with the con artist, I was excited that we can start some program to help good kids who live in marginal families.

Just to add a little flavor to the conversation I put a ceiling fan up about 6 months ago - to enhance the house not satisfy the tenant - most recent inspection I found a box fan running in the room.

And the thought of a tenant taking down a ceiling fan. That would be accident waiting to happen.

Yeah right may be the best answer.

I have become hardened to this business after 35 years. I went into this as "Busy" has with all the grand thoughts of what I could do for people-- and myself.

Then as it became necessary to place more and different people in my places (80) "reality hit". They're just things (the rentals) and they're just "people". Some trick you to get in your place and destroy some (the majority)are the best you've ever met. Yes and I do love that.

So before you throw stones keep this in mind -- we-- all want what we have nurtured, since inception, to remain our dream. Great homes/rentals for the best people WE CAN RENT THEM TOO.

In 1986 when we started buying rentals had I known I would have a gun put into my right eye socket, been attacked by tenants pit bulls (several occasions) let loose-- one of which was going for my throat when the sheriff shot the dog or been jailed for a week for placing a tenants things in storage while she was in jail (so her stuff wouldn't be stolen) This ladies brother pleaded with her not to have me arrested-- his words-- "what other LL would put your stuff in storage for you"? (I was found innocent and she got 1 yr probation for lying cost me 8K in lawyer fees). Being disparaged in court by cruel and lying tenants who think nothing of lying under oath. How about the guy who had his water turned off and he pooped in the master bath and put a towel under the bath door so it wouldn't run into the bedroom and then did the same thing in the hall bath. How about the guys who turned a room in a house into a devil worship room-- I couldn't get anyone to work there. I'll stop because I have 10,000 stories of how people live and how my family cleaned up after them.

OK so back to the ceiling fan! Had the tenant said "I'll supply the ceiling fan if you can put it up and leave it when the lease is over" it would have been done already. The mere fact that she said "If I buy the bracket then I'll have to go in the attic to get it" was over the top. Not to forget this: they have the fan-- they brought it at a yard sale and it was in the garage waiting for me. She showed it. A note: here in GA if you put up something in a commercial place it must stay but not in Residential rental.

Haha! I’m laughing at all that was ‘read into’ what I wrote.

Way back in the very first post, nothing was being asked of the forum, other than maybe looking for affirmation of the decision with tenant that was already made. Maybe we need a ME TOO! movement for old landlords. Second-hand lions unite!

In my first response, I NEVER said to give THIS tenant the ceiling fan installation. I would have told her, as I mentioned in my first post, there is a lot more to it that just buying the light. I would give her education, not a ceiling fan. I also would point her in the direction of attractive looking oscillating fans, when I see them for sale, but, that’s just me. And, I mentioned that if one has many properties, one could simply put that info in a newsletter, because if one tenant wants fans, then others probably do as well. Newsletters are great for sending messages, without having a direct conversation with each and every customer. Problem is, just as many misread things in this thread, each tenant reads a newsletter from their own perspective.

Some points to consider:

I, speaking for just me, would not want to have tenants mucking about with electrical as they move out. Completely out of the question. So, for me, tenant wanting to supply electrical is a hard no. Either I get the equipment, or the project doesn’t go on. I do not ever want tenants mucking about with electrical, with the exception of doorbell wire. They can muck about with that. ( persons with more knowledge of electrical than I , and that is probably MOST of you, can set me straight if there are dangers to that, please.)

I also, do not just put things in because a tenant wants them. I did put in a ceiling fan after my tenant mentioned the poor lighting, but, as I said in that first response, the whole process was already thought out, thanks to recent threads on this forum about ceiling fans BEFORE the tenant mentioned the lighting. I had already noticed the poor lighting, and had already been thinking of having the fan installed., had already discussed with electrician. ( don’t think I mentioned that much detail in my first response,; some of you got it confused and thought I said to give tenant a ceiling fan. )

It is becoming easier and easier for me, as I gain experience, to simply say to a tenant, No. That improvement you want doesn’t get me anything, won’t get me increased rents, and those are sources of headaches. Those things are great things that you (tenant) can do when you buy a home and can either do the improvements yourself, or just go on Angie’s list and find someone . ( I throw out Angie’s list just cos it is well known. Might be a better source out there.) I’ve had requests for dishwashers, privacy fencing, new countertops. Point is, the improvements need to benefit the property in the future, not just this tenant now. And, need to either add to cash flow, eliminate risk, or both.

And then there are the requests by tenants wanting to change out the existing ceiling fixtures with ones they bought, just to match their decor. Such a hard and fast No on that.

I would hope that by the time I have been at this for many more years, that I would have systems in place, answers at the ready. To read further along in this thread, we find out that myob sent handyman to investigate attic, had discussionS with tenant, and now we find out this is some USED ceiling fan bought at a GARAGE sale. For those of you who HAVE NOT much experience with garage sales- be wary, very wary of anything electrical, mechanical sold at a garage sale. ESPECIALLY at sales in ‘move-up’ neighborhoods. Those people will sell broken crapola without batting an eye. And lie to your face about it. If you cannot test it on site, assume it’s broken. The seller of a broken, wobbly, unbalanced ceiling fan will justify it saying, ‘ Oh, someone will want this for parts.’ I ran a 4-H fundraiser rummage sale for many years. Families would donate crapola like that, then ask for receipts for their BIG donations to take off on their taxes. So, that aside (garage sale purchases- be wary,) I mention ONLY to educate those not familiar with purchasing used electrical. A garage sale fan might wobble all to heck. As has been mentioned in this thread, and the other recent threads about ceiling fans, a brand new ceiling fan, complete with limited warranty, and, when NOT in a pandemic shut-down can be returned to get a replacement if when the handyma’am or the electrician puts the ceiling fan up and fan doesn’t function properly. So, why would someone bother with a used garage sale fan THAT the TENANT OWNS? As I mentioned in my first response, the ceiling fan is the INEXPENSIVE part of installing a ceiling fan in a room with no ceiling junction box. Would not be worth having more than ONE conversation with the tenant about.

A long in the tooth landlord knows this stuff, or is wasting time. Sometimes, us old coots just like to roar and winge about others. I get that. But, it gets tedious to me, to hear complaint after complaint about tenants are demanding, tenants are stooped, tenants waste money, tenants blah, blah, blah... As I have said many other times on this forum, not cool to have disrespect for one’s customers. And, as others have said many times, they are tenants for a reason. It was also fun to read all of the read-into, me too! and snarky jabs.

MYOB, yes, you have years on me in terms of managing properties, and gobs more properties than I’d ever want to manage. I won’t change you mind on anything, nor do I aim to. It was pretty darn funny to read you become practically unglued when I described some of my altruistic endeavors. I only got on my high horse about it all because you, my friend, are very quick to attempt shut people down when they see things differently than you.

Oh, and don’t use your real name when in bragadocious mode. Nor your wife’s name. IF you don’t want them known. ( boy! Howdy, had to work hard to finagle bragadocious into this post. You and me both, myob. We got horns, and we like to toot’ ‘em.)

Cheers!

myob, after reading the few stories you shared, I'm ready to getaway on a cruise with you.

From my perspective, it is pretty easy to have Busy's attitude about helping point your tenants in the right direction and maybe even helping them to make better decisions when you have but a few places.

So many times posts here do not tell the whole story. It was a used fan, that is not what was assumed from the original post. That can make a difference. But I also want to mention, that maybe, just maybe, the tenant thought she was doing the right thing by removing the fan when she leaves. A simple reply to her that if LL installs a new fan, then she would have to leave it. May or may not change her mind.

I, like busy, am happy to explain things to people when I know something, expect something or how I think things through. They can learn from it, or not, but I always appreciated and still do when someone explains something to me. This is why I am there for every repair that I don't do myself. I can learn, I can ask for the reasons to do it a certain way.

We all want to think the best. Maybe you missed this too. She wanted me to buy the ceiling joist kit so when she left she could leave that. As she said if she buys it she'll take it when she leaves. She and I knew exactly what she meant-- used fan or not made no difference at that point.

I also like to explain things but in this case she was TELLING ME WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

Should we ever meet in person, myob, I’ll gladly buy a round of top shelf drinks for you and yours, me and mine ( better halves, that is.)

Busy well thanks. I've enjoyed this post and all the thought it provoked. That is the aim of the forum I believe. I did notice my LaLa land comment drew much attention and I have to be honest and say it wasn't meant to be a mean comment and I think I started off that post saying so. I was trying, maybe I missed the mark, to express how we LL's want things to go like a story book tail. More of a comic expression than derogatory. So if that's how it was taken it wasn't meant that way.

Busy you can or maybe can't imagine what we have been through since 86 but it's been fantastic. When we pooled our first purchase offer and had every penny we had, 30K, out there and it was scary. As fear subsided and quantity of SFH's increased fear was much less. We invested 30K in 86 and now own several million dollars worth of RE free and clear. So no amount of whinning on my part can diminish that accomplishment---- but it has made me cynical of our system in this country.

Thanks, myob. Part of me has a little ( tiny) smidge of envy at the investment you made in 1986. We ( dear husband and I) were in the military in San Antonio in 1983. ( when we were dating just after I got out of high school, I told him when I turned 18, I was going in the military. He stammered, said, “ wait. I want to get married. “ So, I cut him a deal. Haha! We honeymooned in basic training. Our TIs arranged for us to have a meal together. He ate with my platoon. Then, in the day room after, the TIs had fun asking my whole platoon about our ‘date.’ ( What did she eat? Nothing! The whole platoon yelled. I was too excited to take a bite.) Anyway, once stationed in San Antonio after tech school, I started looking at little houses, and some big older houses in the king’s hill area ( cannot remember if that is the name, too long ago) and on the edge of the king’s hill area in San Antonio. Could not get my husband to consider rentals. Read that yellow landlording book from the library through and through (author’s name escapes me now, but Jeffrey knew him. Passed a couple of years ago. ) Could NOT convince my husband to consider rentals. Did some community service activities involving rehabbing houses on the east side of San Antonio. Could not get husband to consider rentals. Talked RE investing with anyone who invested. Could not get husband to consider.

One thing DH ( dear husband) was on board with though, was saving. In a big way. We lived off of my income, saved every penny of his, and since. he went into military with an associates degree in computer science, he got two stripes when he came out of basic. And got promoted below the zone. So, we saved the higher income ( unheard of!) Monthly I went to the credit union and bought CDs that were paying as much as 17%!

Finally got my husband to invest in stocks though. I made many of the first picks. I had what seemed to be ‘women’s intuition‘ on stocks, ( we have some of that in my family, like AllyM. Not quite as strong, but enough...) though I could state in financial terms the basis for my ‘intuition’ as well. At least my husband took to stocks, still invests and day trades. ( still gets annoyed that I can look at a couple of balance sheets, read a couple of articles about a company, and then ‘just know’ which to buy. Though I don’t spend time doing that, doesn’t interest me anymore.) But still, we are doing well financially.

I got out in 1987, didn’t want both of us to be active duty once we had kids. I focused my energies on being a good mom. ( best investment I could have ever made, bar none!) But, as we moved around the US, I continued to look at real estate, went to the local library and checked out that yellow landlording book with each new edition. Had a HUGE opportunity in Nebraska. Still, couldn’t get him to budge on investing in RE. He was out of military by then, we ended up back in Wisconsin (Grandparents were here, this momma wanted to stop moving. And our son needed us to stop moving. Each move was so hard on that kid, he’s ( maybe) a bit autistic, doesn’t handle change well.) I worked in education as an aide, found I have a knack for it, still real estate never left my mind, but housing prices here were outrageous. I thought things seemed so overbought in 1996, and we hadn’t even seen the real estate bubble yet. Well, that bubble finally burst. So, I started looking. My husband said to our now grown kids, “ Just ignore her. It goes away, it always does.”

Well, it didn’t . Thanks to this, and other forums ( which have changed dramatically, and not all for the better.) I figured out how to come up with cash to buy properties without touching our joint accounts, because he wasn’t having any of it. Took him a good two years before he started to admit RE was a good choice, for me. He still stays well away..

in all the states i've dealt in the minute they attach something to my house it becomes mine...it's a fixture. simply advise IN WRITING that even if they buy it...it's yours. fans are cheap ($100 delivered for a good hunter at costco), it will cost more to run a circuit and place a hanger. so a better way to treat who "owns" it is to let them pay YOUR GUY for the install labor and state clearly they OWN NOTHING. remember, you're doing this for THEM.

The last thing you need at a turnover is a duel over a fan or to learn they fried a circuit when they self-helped it off the ceiling. you typically learn such things well after the deposit has been accounted for.

those who have a social element to their LL'ing are doing what they see as proper, but please do not ascribe indifference to those of us who do not wear that virtue signalling on our sleeve. the fact that folks are here is good proof to me that they have best practices in mind.

Oops! Mike, perhaps I was Not clear. OTHER forums I also used to read have changed, and not all for the better. Possibly I stuck a comma in the wrong place there. Sorry for the confusion. This one is great. People discuss tough issues, refrain from being really hateful. Good ideas are discussed, though some issues get labeled as ‘virtue signaling.’, so some issues are taboo ........

Did not mean to be ‘virtue signaling. ‘ Sorry, I hurt your sensibilities..... ( heehee)

North side. Between 30th and 64th., Silver Spring, Hampton.

I love your story. Yep, for me, it’s a people business. (disclaimer, and so I don’t want to start somethin’ again: I have no issue with landlords who aren’t so involved in tenant’s lives, in fact, those landlords do the BULK of the work of housing our nation. And, a darn FINE job of it too! I just have an ‘ inner social worker’ who demands I let her out. Maybe just trying to compensate for the horrid things I experienced as a kid. It weren’t no bed of roses, unless thorns count! Mebbe I’m just trying to heal myself, so I don’t end up in prison like much of my family... gotta keep crazy in check, or it can ruin lives!) Oops, well that was too much! ( and I’m in check *grin* )

Charlie, I’d say I would, but I had said that before last convention...then totally leaked out on it. Had a bout of the megrims going on.... was tough to even go to classes at convention... it happens from time to time.

Charlie, I do what I can myself as well but I did not come from the Olde Country although I might like to see it one day.

What made you come to the US?

Interesting post.

I’ve been thinking of taking out all my ceiling fans!

I’m not sure that they are an upgrade, (my sfr’s have a/c). They look dated, and collect dirt.

And what a PITA to clean the blades at tenant turnover!

My motto lately has been “Simplify, simplify, simplify!”

Especially when I’m cleaning another Fricking ceiling fan blade with huge dust bunnies hanging over the blades, YUK!

Anyway thanks for the viewpoints, maybe this will provide some alternative thoughts.

MYOB, btw I think it’s all about the tenants attitude. It’s a warning sign. She wants to dictate to you. I’d be inclined to say no, or respond with my own guidelines. Like others have said... that she pays for it all and leaves it all.

It’s not about the ceiling fan, it’s all about the attitude and who’s in control.

Just my two cents.