Landlords are just property investors, and investment carries risk. You rely on a percentage of renters' income. That's your business model, that's the risk. Right now the income isn't there -- the entire world is on shutdown. You knew this was a risk when you signed to depend on this for income, and now you're going to have to eat that free-market loss.

I know that landlords don't have day-to-day work outside the house, but the people who you've chosen to rely on for your income do. Maybe your tenants haven't lost their jobs. Regardless, they have every right to stay inside, given that there are thousands of people currently dying at home or in overpacked hospitals gasping for air, with hospital staff completely at a loss for what to do.

And all these benefits you keep mentioning? Like unemployment benefits or this one time $1200 check from the government --- you realize that every penny will go straight to you, right? These are all pure landlord subsidies. They'll pay for rent before they pay for groceries or insulin, because homelessness is assured death, and apartment hunting right now is not without horrific danger as well.

Why haven't any of you internalized this risk before placing all the blame on the renters? You signed up for this risk, they just need a place to sleep at night.

If you can't pay your mortgage, maybe try canceling your cell phone plan? Maybe you should've thought ahead!

I haven't seen any LLs placing all the blame on the tenants. BTW, what you "know" is merely a guess.

In fact, your entire rant is speculation and conjecture.

That is a nice view, i tend not to generalize everything, but i think this should go both ways, tenant should cancel cellphone plan, tenant should also have savings, they signed an agreement like we do, if we do not comply with our agreements, sooner or later we will be held accountable. So the tenant in this case, has a more direct responsibility and there is a way to held this accountable at some point of this year... Everything will depend also on the approach that a tenant might have, if you just come to the Landlord and say: Sorry i won't pay April, bye... You should sit down with your Landlord and discuss A PLAN or PAYMENTS, give at least half of month or 3/4 and the remaining in installment of payments, not just assume that will be OK just NOT TO PAID because "FOR NOW" you won't be held accountable, but remember that if you don't cooperate, this is going to enter soon and then, you will be held accountable, evicted and the Landlord might report that to the credit bureaus... (When i said you, i am referring to the tenants).

@LordZen [MA]:

You depend on renters' income. The only money you earn is a percentage of the money they've earned first. Their "plan of payment" is YOUR plan of payment too. If they're not getting paid, YOU'RE not getting paid. Plain and simple.

"So why most of the Landlords should care about the Renters? Specially about those who do no care neither cooperate or show appreciation ?"

@JB [OR]

"I haven't seen any LLs placing all the blame on the tenants."

I guess you don't use these forums? From one thread yesterday:

Zero Tolerance (by Ken [NY]**)

What happened to zero tolerance? What happened to I don't care why they don't pay if they don't pay they get evicted? Why is this virus any difference excuse than a parent died so I can't pay the rent? -- 104.229.xxx.xxx

Zero Tolerance (by NE [PA]***)

I'm also a big follower of the behavior of animals and nature. I think that any animals that show weakness will and SHOULD be eaten by the wolves. -- 50.107.xxx.xxx

All of you are feeling so emboldened by this. Time to eat your losses. That's the free market.

Of course we know the risk but we also rely on the law which allows us to remove those who refuse to pay so that we can mitigate our loss and protect our investment. Then we replace them with a paying tenant.

Nobody should be required to give up access and use of their own property without compensation.

Tyler/CA. Nice try. "Landlords are just property investors." Flip side: Landlords are HOUSING PROVIDERS for those that can't afford/don't want to buy. If we didn't buy, renovate, upgrade and maintain fair market housing, homelessness would be even more of a reality - do you think the government is going provide you with a place to live? They might give you a check, but then you've still got to FIND A PLACE TO LIVE.

We do it for a variety of reasons, as individual as you are. Some of us are motivated solely by the money. Nothing wrong with that, but LLing a "get rich slow" biz. I know an equal if not greater number of "average" landlords (i.e. not huge corporate providers) that do it for yes, money. Do you work for free? But also autonomy of hours, and pride in what we do, and many with a sense of "If not us, who?" Who will take these crappy crumbling homes and pump money into them purely on spec and hope? For many of us, it takes multiple decades to earn it back and finally turn a profit. There's a reason a lot of LLs are plain OLD!

We don't owe you free housing - housing that is only available because on our hard work.

If "Landlording" were so easy, there would be many more of us...but in reality, it's a 24/7 job, even if the hours are more flexible than some.

@WMH [NC]

I'm sorry, but the overwhelming number of people on this forum are concerned with getting their money from tenants any way they can right now, despite the fact that the majority of tenants in the world are in an extraordinarily dangerous, precarious and NEW position. I'm not posting on here because I have a problem with landlords. I'm on here because from what I've read (and maybe it's just macho posturing) the consensus is that everyone negatively affected by this global crisis should be penalized (...but apparently not the landlords, who depend on their second-hand income). Zero tolerance for renters who can't come up with the money. They can be homeless for all I care. Not my problem.

If you're really just a "housing provider", then that's the role you've got to adapt to right now. It's time for all of you to step up and be providers. The majority of posts on this site right now are about evictions. About how to get that money back. About how to be firm. You are a PROVIDER and you're going to have to make sacrifices too.

Sorry, but no one's going to set up a payment plan to pay you back in 6 months if they've been sitting at home unemployed due to global sickness. Where is that money going to come from? Why can't you magically produce money too?

"If "Landlording" were so easy, there would be many more of us." -- right, the majority of people don't own property because it's hard (not because landlords extract 80% of their income and then expect them to invest the rest in owning).

Tyler many of us, like Ken (NY), who have been in this business multiple decades understand that many tenants look for any excuse they can find to avoid paying their rent.

After seeing many of my tenants live high on the hog with $200/month tv subscription services, 3 pack a day cigarette habits, fridges that are endlessly stocked with beer, their own weekly allowance for the coolest new tattoo they just saw their friends get, eating shrimp and steak twice a week at the spendy restaurant down the road, hearing them complain that the closest pot shop is barely within walking distance...all the while as we did without any luxuries so that we could some day be better off than we are today...Yes, some of us become a bit jaded.

Please forgive our disgusting attitudes as we somehow hope and pray that our tenants actually spend their government windfalls (our tax dollars) on...rent, food, bills. Wow, I guess we really are evil.

@ohnny B. [MA]

Correct, it is a two way relationship (except for the fact that one side is making a profit). That is why I'm here to ask landlords to make sacrifices too, instead of (as this forum is overwhelmingly promoting) insisting on a zero-tolerance policy that is completely irrelevant to the global situation right now. Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures, and the lack of imagination here is astounding.

Tyler, I'm betting I have children or at least grandchildren your age, since they range in age from 15 to 48. They are renters, they are owners, they are people with threatened jobs and student loan bills and their own mortgages and car payments and health insurance issues.

And here, my boy, is where you made a mis-step in logic:

"I, legally, need to sleep inside, and the only way I can do that is by going through a landlord."

Not true. You can go home to family. You can live with friends. You can get a bunch o' roommates and share the bills.

@JB [OR]:

"Please forgive our disgusting attitudes as we somehow hope and pray that our tenants actually spend their government windfalls (our tax dollars) on...rent, food, bills. Wow, I guess we really are evil."

@WMH [NC]

"Tell me why I should help YOU before THEM?"

Tyler, you'd be surprised how tenants choose to spend their money sometimes. REALLLLLLY surprised.

Son, if you talked to some of my kids, they would say there is no WAY they would ever want to be a landlord - it's too hard. They were made to help over the years, and eventually said, "NO WAY!" They don't want to crawl in mud after a plumbing leak or pull out poop from a plugged toilet filled with sanitary supplies or crawl under one more sink ever.

So Tyler how much of your paycheck are you donating to these people in need?

Also people need food even more than housing. Maybe grocery stores and restaurants should not charge.

Or you only think people should donate their paycheck just as long as it is not you.

As far as knowing the risk. Like a lot of things. That is based on history.

This is something different that has not happened before. You make it sound like we should have know something like this could happen. Then you should have known the risk. And I am sure you have planned for the risk and have a job that will not be effected.

Believe it or not, most of us horrible LLs have to deal with tenants (maybe much like yourself) that think they are owed something.

And because we might have it, and you want it, if we don't voluntarily give it to you it should be taken from us...no matter how many sacrifices and tough choices we made over our lifetimes to get where we might be today. And no matter how many bad choices and terrible decisions you may have made over the years LLs still owe you. BS. Grow up. Go mow lawns, paint houses, work 2 or 3 jobs 70 hours+ a week like many of us did for many years to try to get ahead.

Tyler is just another of these trolls who believe housing is a right.

Well, someone has to pay for it. My friends who grew up in East Germany and Soviet Russia have all kinds of tales to tell.

Either a tenant on the verge of being booted or a ex-landlord who did one bad deal.

This scenario is unprecedented in the history of the world. Even the most cautious investor couldn't have anticipated this.

I don't like listening to philosophers especially socialist philosophers.

Tyler, it's much simpler than you think: this is a contract. Do you know what a contract is? A contract is an agreement between A and B that has:

- Agreement. There must be an offer and an acceptance with a definite agreement between the parties.

- Consideration.

- Intention.

- Capacity.

- Genuine consent.

- Legality.

Tenants rents from a Landlord, and landlord rents to tenant. Consideration is the monthly rent.

Show me where a contract has a provision like "tenant shall pay, only if he the money" ?

Tyler, I’m sure you have heard the expression, the squeaky wheel gets the grease., yes? Well, a forum such as this is for squeaky wheel problems...my tenant does this, the bank wants that, the house is doing this...

We don’t often write about the nine zillion other parts that are not squeaking, are working exceptionally well. Only the squeaking parts. Ok, well, yes, we do go a bit off topic from time to time, and often talk about ways we spend time doing charity work, or talk about health, or cooking. And vacations.

But squeaky wheel conversations are more often about the very, very, very few irresponsible people who will go to extraodinary lengths to avoid not only paying rent, but can also do serious criminal damage, including violence. Those of us on here regularly DO KNOW that MOST tenants are responsible people who are doing their best to pay all of their bills, take care of their families, and have a nice life.

If you haven’t been reading this forum regularly, then you have probably missed the many threads we have had on this forum about GREAT TENANTS! Yes, we have had discussions about that. And while it may seem that the majority of posters on here are currently griping about ‘where’s the landlord bailout?, that, I assure you, is not the case.

Tyler [CA], as a rich greedy uncaring LL, I would like to thank you from the bottom of my heart (if I had one) for offering such insightful, compassionate & extremely helpful information in your posts.

"If they're not getting paid, YOU'RE not getting paid. Plain and simple." However when they're not getting paid some if not most of them can collect unemployment compensation unlike LLs. Tenants who are no longer working are not paying out funds to help maintain their work place aka income source. Whereas if a LL isn't getting rent aka income, they are still paying out for RE taxes, rubbish fee, W&S bills, electric bills, gas bills, maintenance & repair bills, insurance bills, mortgages, etc on most if not all of their properties.

Tyler, I doubt that if you were my tenant that we could manage to work out a plan where you would have a place to stay & I would still have a property to manage. FYI the majority of my tenants (some of 25+ years) are working with me to solve our mutual problem & not as it appears you are just looking for a free ride.

"Those who spend their time looking for faults in others

Usually make no time to correct their own" - Art Jonak

Hi Comrade Tyler.

You're prolly a nice guy.

I am, too.

I rely on the income from my rent houses to provide for my own family.

Would it be okay, if when one of my renters can't pay, instead of evicting them, I give you a ring to see if you can help out by chipping in?

You wrote: "You rely on a percentage of renters' income"

Just a thought, when an investor gets into this business what percentage of your rent do you think they get to keep? I suspect from your tone that you believe it is the majority of what you pay. Would it surprise you that an average is less than 10%, that's what we generally refer to as CAP Rate. It has been getting slimmer and slimmer over the last few years.

So what happens if the rent doesn't come in? First the mortgage doesn't get paid and within 3 months the bank forecloses and the tenants have to move out anyway.

If by some means the mortgage gets paid then the property tax man comes. If those don't get paid then the tax man forecloses and the tenants have to move out anyway.

If by some means the taxes get paid then there is no money for maintenance, insurance, trash, etc. The health department shuts it down and the tenants have to move out anyway.

I won't even get into the secondary effects of bank failures, cities that will fail when revenue doesn't come in, housing shortages that will become worse than they are now to name just a few.

Tyler, I agree with some of what you say.

Many of the landlords here are fond of claiming that they are running a business, but have no idea of what a business really is. Business is more than just a project that is meant to produce a profit for the owner; in today's world, it is a set of practices logically formulated to produce a good or service, to market it, to finance the operation, to execute the practices and to maximize the favorable outccomes and to minimize the risks. As such, not every business will make a profit (and should not succeed) and not every entrepreneur will have a successful outcome.

That part, I agree with you.

This pr3esent catastrophe affect everyone. We are all in this, and we all share in the losses and pain. Government helps by contributing health care, financial safety net against widespread starvation and homelessness, complete destruction of society and economic collapse. Thats what the government stipend and eviction protection is trying to do. We are all to suffer from the emergency and there is discomfort all around. We all get a piece of it. In order for America to survive this blow, we all have to take our lumps. People are getting mortally sick. People are losing their jobs, their livelihood, potentially their homes (even rented), investors are losing their investments, those with anything to spare are at risk.

I have tried to point out before how a good businessman plans ahead for such exigencies. Those that haven't, are at risk of losing their investment, but thats because reward involves risk and only the fittest will survive. I find it so noteworthy that contributors to this site who have always boasted about their independence, not expect to be protected from the slings and arrows.

A good business plan needs provision for unexpected events. Those who are good businessmen will survive, and some others won't. But that what business is all about: survival of the fittest. And a good independent businessman need only to look to his business plan and follow it.

America needs good businessmen now.

"Landlords are just property investors, and investment carries risk."

Mostly Correct. Anybody who goes into the biz without realizing this is a fool.

"I know that landlords don't have day-to-day work outside the house..."

Incorrect assumption.

"Like unemployment benefits or this one time $1200 check from the government --- you realize that every penny will go straight to you, right?"

No guarantee of that, and from our pooled experiences, probably not.

"If you can't pay your mortgage, maybe try canceling your cell phone plan? Maybe you should've thought ahead!

Yes, of course. I have had to cut expenses when facing hard times.

"...it is a two way relationship (except for the fact that one side is making a profit)"

(Hopefully) And one side is gaining a valuable good. What's immoral or unethical about that?

"You mean the one time $1200 check?? The single check that is less than one month at the federal minimum wage of $7.25? Or do you mean unemployment checks, which are at MOST 55% of your weekly wages?"

Yes agreed. These relief efforts are not nearly enough. Hopefully there will be more rounds until folks can get back on their feet.

The Ant and the Grasshopper

Retold from Aesop by Rohini Chowdhury

Once there lived an ant and a grasshopper in a grassy meadow.

All day long the ant would work hard, collecting grains of wheat from the farmer’s field far away. She would hurry to the field every morning, as soon as it was light enough to see by, and toil back with a heavy grain of wheat balanced on her head. She would put the grain of wheat carefully away in her larder, and then hurry back to the field for another one. All day long she would work, without stop or rest, scurrying back and forth from the field, collecting the grains of wheat and storing them carefully in her larder.

The grasshopper would look at her and laugh. ‘Why do you work so hard, dear ant?’ he would say. ‘Come, rest awhile, listen to my song. Summer is here, the days are long and bright. Why waste the sunshine in labour and toil?’

The ant would ignore him, and head bent, would just hurry to the field a little faster. This would make the grasshopper laugh even louder. ‘What a silly little ant you are!’ he would call after her. ‘Come, come and dance with me! Forget about work! Enjoy the summer! Live a little!’ And the grasshopper would hop away across the meadow, singing and dancing merrily.

Summer faded into autumn, and autumn turned into winter. The sun was hardly seen, and the days were short and grey, the nights long and dark. It became freezing cold, and snow began to fall.

The grasshopper didn’t feel like singing any more. He was cold and hungry. He had nowhere to shelter from the snow, and nothing to eat. The meadow and the farmer’s field were covered in snow, and there was no food to be had. ‘Oh what shall I do? Where shall I go?’ wailed the grasshopper. Suddenly he remembered the ant. ‘Ah – I shall go to the ant and ask her for food and shelter!’ declared the grasshopper, perking up. So off he went to the ant’s house and knocked at her door. ‘Hello ant!’ he cried cheerfully. ‘Here I am, to sing for you, as I warm myself by your fire, while you get me some food from that larder of yours!’

The ant looked at the grasshopper and said, ‘All summer long I worked hard while you made fun of me, and sang and danced. You should have thought of winter then! Find somewhere else to sing, grasshopper! There is no warmth or food for you here!’ And the ant shut the door in the grasshopper’s face.

It is wise to worry about tomorrow today.

Fellow LL

My post about Mr Tyler was not accepted. Some sort of note came up after I submitted that it would be posted later. I think - I didn't read it to close.

Did the filter get it - exclusion software - just a tech glitch - admin review?

I only noted that Tyler was probably a lib... opposite of conservative. And why was he trolling on this site.

Thanks for you help

JKJ

Exclusion software as I call it. It would seem the admin would identify the word/reason for disallowing the post.

Oh Well.

Tyler, I have an idea.

You go buy a house and let someone else live there for free and in the mean time you pay the property taxes, insurance, utilities, lawn care, ect….. Then get back with us and let us know how that works out. In the mean time go offer your labor for free to your next employer.

My reality is that I pay my obligations and live up to my contracts. A lease is another contract live up to it or suffer the consequences.

The issue a lot of landlords are having is this is basically a takings under the constitution. The government has taken our income by order yet we still have to live up to our obligations.

I can under stand and appreciate your concern Tyler. Perhaps you can get a nice home in the state housing project. I believe they are mostly free - to you. The rest of America will have to pay for your free ride.

I am sorry that bills exist and that there is a need to pay them. It is my hope that everyone can and if they can't they reach out to me in advance.

At another website, another writer with Tyler [CA]'s mindset wrote this twisted logic: