always late (by Tills [NH]) Dec 30, 2019 5:01 PM
always late (by AllyM [NJ]) Dec 30, 2019 5:18 PM
always late (by Tills [NH]) Dec 30, 2019 5:35 PM
always late (by Jim in O C [CA]) Dec 30, 2019 5:41 PM
always late (by Pmh [TX]) Dec 30, 2019 5:46 PM
always late (by Tills [NH]) Dec 30, 2019 6:00 PM
always late (by AllyM [NJ]) Dec 30, 2019 6:35 PM
always late (by plenty [MO]) Dec 30, 2019 6:52 PM
always late (by Jkj [MA]) Dec 30, 2019 6:59 PM
always late (by fred [CA]) Dec 30, 2019 7:07 PM
always late (by Tills [NH]) Dec 30, 2019 7:16 PM
always late (by Tills [NH]) Dec 30, 2019 7:20 PM
always late (by Jeff [CO]) Dec 30, 2019 7:36 PM
always late (by Tills [NH]) Dec 30, 2019 7:41 PM
always late (by Tills [NH]) Dec 30, 2019 7:42 PM
always late (by plenty [MO]) Dec 30, 2019 7:48 PM
always late (by plenty [MO]) Dec 30, 2019 7:48 PM
always late (by plenty [MO]) Dec 30, 2019 7:48 PM
always late (by Jeff [CO]) Dec 30, 2019 7:51 PM
always late (by fred [CA]) Dec 30, 2019 8:09 PM
always late (by Jeff [CO]) Dec 30, 2019 8:21 PM
always late (by Robert J [CA]) Dec 31, 2019 3:44 AM
always late (by nhsailmaker [NH]) Dec 31, 2019 7:24 AM
always late (by WMH [NC]) Dec 31, 2019 8:57 AM
always late (by Tills [NH]) Dec 31, 2019 10:23 AM
always late (by Doogie [KS]) Dec 31, 2019 3:30 PM
always late (by Jeff [CO]) Dec 31, 2019 3:35 PM
always late (by Doogie [KS]) Dec 31, 2019 6:59 PM
always late (by Jeff [CO]) Dec 31, 2019 7:08 PM
always late (by nhsailmaker [NH]) Dec 31, 2019 8:08 PM
always late (by Tills [NH]) Jan 1, 2020 11:28 AM
always late (by Jeff [CO]) Jan 1, 2020 12:00 PM
always late (by WMH [NC]) Jan 1, 2020 12:46 PM
always late (by Tills [NH]) Jan 1, 2020 1:57 PM
always late (by Tills [NH]) Jan 1, 2020 2:11 PM
always late (by Tills [NH]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 5:01 PM Message:
State Specific Question About: NEW HAMPSHIRE (NH)
Tenants are consistently late past our grace period of 5 days, but always pay within 30 days. Is this enough reason for me to end their lease early? --73.61.xx.xxx |
always late (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 5:18 PM Message:
I don't unless they are really bad people who are making trouble. If they go bad, then start giving them notices about it before you try to evict because it was tolerated for so long. I only have six units but one is consistently doing what you describe. They are both now retired so their life has changed and I want to keep them. --173.61.xxx.xx |
always late (by Tills [NH]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 5:35 PM Message:
Thanks Ally. They're not horrible people but they're not good tenants. Lots of red flags going up in a very short period of time. --73.61.xx.xxx |
always late (by Jim in O C [CA]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 5:41 PM Message:
You get what you allow. Probably can't terminate the lease because you have accepted that behavior but unless your laws are reasonable not like California you probably don't have to re-new.
In my tenants 101 class I tell new tenants your year 2 increase can be 3% or 13% or more depending on how you respect me as your landlord.
--99.23.xxx.x |
always late (by Pmh [TX]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 5:46 PM Message:
I just don’t understand why you keep letting it happen...not sure I would follow ally’s advice. you are running a business...need to start thinking that way. --107.77.xxx.xxx |
always late (by Tills [NH]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 6:00 PM Message:
Pmh, Jim:
I probably should have worded the post a bit differently. We haven't accepted their behavior.
We charge a late fee which is stipulated in our lease. When I say always late, I mean for the term of their lease, which honestly has not been that long--they've been tenants for a few short months. They paid their late fee after the 5th day but not without lots of reminders from us. And very grudgingly--emphasis on the grudge. There's lots of months left in their lease, and this is why we're getting nervous, and wanting to know legal recourse. We're not interested in collecting late fees every month. If they were stellar tenants, maybe. But they're not. Nothing else evitable in their behavior, but perhaps this. Hence the question--not sure if being late only a few days past the due date is grounds for giving them notice to quit. My state has no rules regarding a grace period. --73.61.xx.xxx |
always late (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 6:35 PM Message:
When this comes up in my business I remember the saying "Better the Devil you know than the Devil you don't know". If I have an empty for the people that pay late, it will be two months of rehab for the unit and I don't know what kind of troublemakers I might be forced to accept. This works for me. We are required to repaint after each tenant and also get inspections and it gets pricey to try and dump someone for nothing. NJ has a ten day grace period before it allows filing. I have five days before late fee. --173.61.xxx.xx |
always late (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 6:52 PM Message:
Stop reminding them. Just stop. Read your lease and whatever it says you are to do when the tent isn't paid is what you should not. I epuld bey $5 it doesn't say for you to phone them and remind them. ;) --99.203.xx.xx |
always late (by Jkj [MA]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 6:59 PM Message:
i wouldn’t allow it, in my opinion people do what they know they can get away with.. I would also suggest a zero tolerance policy moving forward. --72.93.xxx.xx |
always late (by fred [CA]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 7:07 PM Message:
You need to find out why they are constantly late and try to remedy it.
- Do they get paid on a different day? If yes, why don't you amend the rental agreement, make the payment day right after they get paid, and charging for the additional days accordingly.
- However, you mentioned that they sometimes stretch it to 30 days, and that's not acceptable.
- If you want to keep them as tenants, and if they continue to be late, raise your rent whenever you can without delays, to the maximum allowed in your state, and keep them M2M.
I just have a hunch that sooner or later they will not pay after 30 days, and by then you will be 30 behind...lose/lose situation for you.
You said it yourself: they aren't good tenants, and in a case like this, the negatives become magnified, to a point when you won't be able to tolerate them anymore. --99.59.x.xxx |
always late (by Tills [NH]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 7:16 PM Message:
Plenty and Jkj: Solid advice! Definitely wording our lease differently next time...live & learn.
Still unsure of what my legal recourse is. NH is very vague, but my lease does specify if they fail to pay rent when due and the default continues for seven (7) days thereafter, Landlord may exercise any and all rights and remedies available to Landlord at law or in equity or may immediately terminate this Agreement.
From NH Law CHAPTER 540 ACTIONS AGAINST TENANTS 540:2 Termination of Tenancy:
I. The lessor or owner of restricted property may terminate any tenancy by giving to the tenant or occupant a notice in writing to quit the premises in accordance with RSA 540:3 and 5, but only for one of the following reasons:
(a) Neglect or refusal to pay rent due and in arrears, upon demand.
(b) Substantial damage to the premises by the tenant, members of his household, or guests.
(c) Failure of the tenant to comply with a material term of the lease.
(d) Behavior of the tenant or members of his family which adversely affects the health or safety of the other tenants or the landlord or his representatives, or failure of the tenant to accept suitable temporary relocation due to lead-based paint hazard abatement, as set forth in RSA 130-A:8-a, I.
(e) Other good cause.
(f) The dwelling unit contains a lead exposure-hazard which the owner will abate by:
(1) Methods other than interim controls or encapsulation;
(2) Any other method which can reasonably be expected to take more than 30 days to perform; or
(3) Removing the dwelling unit from the residential rental market.
(g) Willful failure by the tenant to prepare the unit for remediation of an infestation of insects or rodents, including bed bugs, after receipt of reasonable written notice of the required preparations and reasonable time to complete them.
III. If the grounds for eviction is other good cause as set forth in paragraph II(e) of this section, and such cause is based on the actions or inactions of the tenant, members of his family, or guests, the landlord shall, prior to the issuance of the eviction notice, provide the tenant with written notice stating that in the future such actions or inactions would constitute grounds for eviction. Such notice shall be served in accordance with RSA 540:5 or by certified mail.
Not sure if article I(a) I(c) or I(e) applies in this case since if they are inconsistent with when they pay their rent which violates the lease. Seems like it would. A
So maybe I've just answered my own question here. Gah!! --73.61.xx.xxx |
always late (by Tills [NH]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 7:20 PM Message:
Thanks, fred. It's been one thing after the next with them. Sickness, changing jobs, etc. That's why we gave them a "pass" the first month it happened. We are understanding to a point. But we never would have brought them if we'd known how inconsistent and needy they are. References from previous landlords and employers were solid so we had no reason to believe they would have $ issues or simply be PITAs. Makes me nervous to keep them on, wondering when the next shoe will drop. They've definitely held a grudge since we've enforced the late fee. I can't say more than that without getting specific which I don't want to in public. --73.61.xx.xxx |
always late (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 7:36 PM Message:
You can't end their lease early. --76.120.xx.xx |
always late (by Tills [NH]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 7:41 PM Message:
Jeff--elaborate, please? --73.61.xx.xxx |
always late (by Tills [NH]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 7:42 PM Message:
Jeff, also not sure if you saw my last 2 posts quoting our lease and NH law. Please elaborate--curious as to your comment. Thanks! --73.61.xx.xxx |
always late (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 7:48 PM Message:
you wrote: but my lease does specify if they fail to pay rent when due and the default continues for seven (7) days thereafter,
So are you doing that? that is what you should be doing. Sometimes it just takes them receiving that notification to pay and start paying on time. Your lease DOES SPECIFY what you should be doing - you are not doing it. DO IT, you don't have to wait for the next version of your lease. Do it! Prepared the notice and have it ready for jan Rent, pass due. --184.206.xxx.xxx |
always late (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 7:48 PM Message:
you wrote: but my lease does specify if they fail to pay rent when due and the default continues for seven (7) days thereafter,
So are you doing that? that is what you should be doing. Sometimes it just takes them receiving that notification to pay and start paying on time. Your lease DOES SPECIFY what you should be doing - you are not doing it. DO IT, you don't have to wait for the next version of your lease. Do it! Prepared the notice and have it ready for jan Rent, pass due. --184.206.xxx.xxx |
always late (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 7:48 PM Message:
you wrote: but my lease does specify if they fail to pay rent when due and the default continues for seven (7) days thereafter,
So are you doing that? that is what you should be doing. Sometimes it just takes them receiving that notification to pay and start paying on time. Your lease DOES SPECIFY what you should be doing - you are not doing it. DO IT, you don't have to wait for the next version of your lease. Do it! Prepared the notice and have it ready for jan Rent, pass due. --184.206.xxx.xxx |
always late (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 7:51 PM Message:
Tillis, there are two ways that I know of to end a lease early: Mutual agreement or eviction. That's it.
I don't know how your legal system is set up, but I think tenants have a right to cure a no-pay violation by paying. You can't just end the lease. Let me know if I am wrong.
Consistently allowing late payments could very well work against you in court.
Also, Fred's comment here is ridiculous:
"You need to find out why they are constantly late and try to remedy it."
--76.120.xx.xx |
always late (by fred [CA]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 8:09 PM Message:
Jeff CO,
I was referring to their payroll day, or any other issue they may be harboring, like a plan to get the PO get used to late rents.
The remedy is of course: follow the lease or get evicted.
Still find my comment ridiculous? --99.59.x.xxx |
always late (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 8:21 PM Message:
Yes, Fred, I still find it ridiculous - and bad advice.
The rent due date is set in the lease. It is up to the tenant to find the way to make it work. They have already agreed to it.
If a tenant's pay days change and the cycle is off, it is up to the TENANT to approach the landlord. (Which, by the way, would be a problem or concern and not an "issue").The landlord then has the option of amending the lease or not.
I don't see evidence of any of that in the OP's post.
It's NOT up to the landlord to find out why they are late and try to fix it. Just the opposite is true.
Good post, Pmh, by the way.
--76.120.xx.xx |
always late (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Dec 31, 2019 3:44 AM Message:
When I have a late paying tenant who's causing me some stress I simply have a meaningful conversation with them, in person if at all possible. My plan is to find out why they are late. Then make an agreement. If the tenant know's they won't be able to pay the rent by the 5th of the month, they have to leave me a text'ed message (or voice mail) saying when I can pick up the rent.
If the tenant pays half of the rent by the 10th of the month, AND the balance by the 20th, there will be no late fee or eviction.
If I don't have half by the 10th, I will issue a 3 day notice. Then if the full rent isn't received by the 15th, I will evict.
When I had 30 late paying tenants from a property I purchased, I could have just evicted the late payers and lost $35,000 in rent and legal costs. Instead by working with these late payers, I got 80% of the rent on time. Then I slowly evicted (around 4 per month) the worst of those payers.
--47.156.xxx.xxx |
always late (by nhsailmaker [NH]) Posted on: Dec 31, 2019 7:24 AM Message:
You need to issue notice to quit and eviction papers on the day rent is late - no grace period -
They can only cure the late rent 3 times in 12 months or they can be evicted
Follow through and go to court and file for eviction and you will win
This is NH the....... "Live Free or Die" state
--24.62.xxx.xxx |
always late (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Dec 31, 2019 8:57 AM Message:
"Grudgingly" is a key word here. Mr. Landlord teaches the NUMBER ONE QUALIFICATION he looks for in a prospective resident is COOPERATION. THis tenant doesn't sounds as if they meet that qualification.
SO...moving forward...I would notify them...in writing (email or text is fine!) that late rent will no longer be acceptable. A notice to cure, basically.
Something like, "Happy New Year! In this new decade, we are giving notice that we will be upholding the terms of our lease from now on. Rent is due on or BEFORE the due date. We will no longer allow late rent - should rent be late again, regardless of whether or not the late fee is paid, we will be filing for a summary ejectment for breach of lease, according to the terms of the lease and NH law.
If you would like to make different payment arrangements to ensure you are not late again, we are open to terms such as payday payment plans or multiple payments per month, so long as the total due is received by the due date." --50.82.xxx.xxx |
always late (by Tills [NH]) Posted on: Dec 31, 2019 10:23 AM Message:
Thanks everyone for the input, truly appreciated.
The last 15 years, we've managed to have good, reasonable people that pay on time (I realize how unusual this is). We've always been responsive landlords to house related things that pop up, but since we've started imposing the late fee, there's been some unreasonable & demanding behavior from them, almost like retaliation. These red flags (very early into their lease) makes us want to be done with them. We shall see what unfolds when rent is due in January.
--73.61.xx.xxx |
always late (by Doogie [KS]) Posted on: Dec 31, 2019 3:30 PM Message:
Do a search at the top for "Zero Tolerance". Some of the folks here abbreviate it to "ZT", so you can search for that too. Since I have adopted this policy, on time collections have gone way up. I already have 25% of rents collected for Jan and that has never happened.
You truly do get what you allow. Once I shifted my mindset that I was running a business and not a charity, it became easier. Of course, I don't want to evict anyone. Unfortunately, it's part of the business sometimes. I had one a couple months ago that texted me on the 3rd that he would be paying on the 10th and it would really help if I would waive the late fees. No asking, just telling me. I let him know I couldn't afford to lend him any money and rent was due. My policy is the PoQ notices go out on the 5th. I had rent and late fees from him on the 6th. Very few actually make me file for eviction. --68.102.xxx.xxx |
always late (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Dec 31, 2019 3:35 PM Message:
Hate to say it, but notices sent on the 5th for rent due on the first doesn't sound like zero tolerance. --76.120.xx.xx |
always late (by Doogie [KS]) Posted on: Dec 31, 2019 6:59 PM Message:
Jeff - I agree. However, that is the procedure that my attorney told me to follow. He is the one that has to take it to court, so I follow what he says. --68.102.xxx.xxx |
always late (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Dec 31, 2019 7:08 PM Message:
Doogie, you strike me as one of the few here who knows what he's doing. That's interesting. I am curious why he would suggest that. --76.120.xx.xx |
always late (by nhsailmaker [NH]) Posted on: Dec 31, 2019 8:08 PM Message:
I do the $50 pre payment rent discount
I raise rent $50 above market and tell them to take $50 off if they pay on or before the 1st -
They all do pay by the 1st
My crew member is a local judge and he says late fees go no where but discount is legal --24.62.xxx.xxx |
always late (by Tills [NH]) Posted on: Jan 1, 2020 11:28 AM Message:
nhsailmaker--the "discount" is a great strategy. And I see we are both in NH. This sounds like something to incorporate into the next lease for this unit.
WMH--we screen thoroughly and base our decision not just on how prospects look on paper, but on their personality when meeting them--how they present themselves, how they interact with us, etc. But you can't possibly know exactly how someone is going to be as a tenant until they're already in there. We made an allowance 2 times too many when they had excuses for being late--new job which meant new payroll date, being sick, taking care of sick family members, etc. I agree--no more of that. If we must, we will use the wording of our lease to remind them of the consequences greater than a late fee. But we also don't want to evict a family in the winter, either.
Doogie--I'm on board with what you're saying. As I said above to WMH, we shouldn't have let them be late without penalty those times that we did. I agree. We were too nice. --73.61.xx.xxx |
always late (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Jan 1, 2020 12:00 PM Message:
Nhsailmaker, I do the same thing - $50 on-time discount that expires at 5:00 PM on the first. --76.120.xx.xx |
always late (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jan 1, 2020 12:46 PM Message:
"But you can't possibly know exactly how someone is going to be as a tenant until they're already in there." True to some degree, but I think you will find that the more you screen for cooperativeness as a characteristic, the rest follows.
For instance, during the application process, did they:
Show up on time for appointments? As in, early!?
Communicate effectively?
Provide the correct documents/information when requested, or did you have to follow up?
Agree to your terms and conditions without trying to change them?
Ask to paint? (LOL!!)
Find fault or criticize anything along the way?
Just some red flags for me. --50.82.xxx.xxx |
always late (by Tills [NH]) Posted on: Jan 1, 2020 1:57 PM Message:
WMH: We screen for cooperativeness, character traits-- and all of these things you speak of. They showed up on time, agreed to our terms, communicated, didn't find fault with us or our property, provided everything we needed without prompts, etc. In other words--ideal.
Like I said--we're very thorough, some would even call it "picky" when it comes to screening. They can't all be winners all of the time, unfortunately. None of us would be on seeking advice on this board if our tenants were perfect, right? ;) --73.61.xx.xxx |
always late (by Tills [NH]) Posted on: Jan 1, 2020 2:11 PM Message:
BTW, WMH--just found your Ready to Occupy checklist--def incorporating into our next lease. Thank you for posting! --73.61.xx.xxx |
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