Constant Turnover Cont'd
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Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Dec 28, 2019 1:51 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by WMH [NC]) Dec 28, 2019 1:58 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by WMH [NC]) Dec 28, 2019 2:27 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Robert J [CA]) Dec 28, 2019 2:46 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Deanna [TX]) Dec 28, 2019 2:49 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Dec 28, 2019 2:55 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by plenty [MO]) Dec 28, 2019 2:59 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by myob [GA]) Dec 28, 2019 3:34 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Dec 28, 2019 3:50 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by AllyM [NJ]) Dec 28, 2019 4:44 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by WMH [NC]) Dec 28, 2019 5:06 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Dec 28, 2019 5:49 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by plenty [MO]) Dec 28, 2019 5:57 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by fred [CA]) Dec 28, 2019 6:26 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by NE [PA]) Dec 28, 2019 7:15 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by ned [AL]) Dec 28, 2019 9:40 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Dec 29, 2019 9:00 AM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by LisaFL [FL]) Dec 29, 2019 9:02 AM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by S i d [MO]) Dec 29, 2019 9:15 AM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by WMH [NC]) Dec 29, 2019 9:43 AM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Dave i [CA]) Dec 29, 2019 9:59 AM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Dec 29, 2019 10:04 AM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jim in O [CA]) Dec 29, 2019 10:11 AM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by fred [CA]) Dec 31, 2019 9:03 AM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Dec 31, 2019 10:01 AM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by fred [CA]) Dec 31, 2019 11:51 AM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Dec 31, 2019 12:19 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Dec 31, 2019 12:19 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Pmh [TX]) Dec 31, 2019 3:08 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Dec 31, 2019 3:15 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by captain obvious [TX]) Jan 3, 2020 5:51 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Jan 3, 2020 6:59 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by captain obvious again [TX]) Jan 3, 2020 8:12 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Jan 3, 2020 8:58 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Jan 3, 2020 8:58 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jkj [MA]) Jan 3, 2020 9:38 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Jan 3, 2020 9:55 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jkj [MA]) Jan 3, 2020 10:19 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by LisaFL [FL]) Jan 3, 2020 10:54 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Jan 3, 2020 11:09 PM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jkj [MA]) Jan 4, 2020 12:19 AM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Jan 4, 2020 10:51 AM
       Constant Turnover Cont'd (by captain obvious again [TX]) Jan 4, 2020 1:32 PM


Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Dec 28, 2019 1:51 PM
Message:

I am down to 26 units in 3 buildings and will have turned over 17 units within the past year and a half. And this is a hot market. The properties are in stellar condition, we fix things immediately, and have very good business relationships with the tenants. All three said in their e-mails that they enjoyed living at the property and appreciated how they were treated.

Next month three will be quitting. One is moving to Oregon, and I'm not sure why the others are leaving.

It's all part of the business but I don't like starting the new year off that way. It will be interesting to see how many I lose next year.

--76.120.xx.xx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Dec 28, 2019 1:58 PM
Message:

We averaged 33%, which apparently is industry standard. 1/3 of renters move each year. --50.82.xxx.xxx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Dec 28, 2019 2:27 PM
Message:

We didn't have any empty days though :) --50.82.xxx.xxx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Dec 28, 2019 2:46 PM
Message:

When I had a partner in a 16 unit, she would rent to just anyone with money and a job, those were her criteria. When I had to take over the management, I soon learned it was better to "wait" until I found the right "fit" and kept it vacant an extra month... Each "turnover" was too costly (time and money) to rent to a "fly-by-night) tenant. Here today and gone tomorrow with a 30 day notice.

I found those who couldn't afford to "move" that often, were displaced from a prior long tenancy (like the owner was selling the property).

After having massive vacancies, I pick and choose.... --47.156.xxx.xxx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Deanna [TX]) Posted on: Dec 28, 2019 2:49 PM
Message:

That sounds pretty good, for apartments.

Low turnover is a sign of below-market rents, according to my understanding. Yeah, there's the annoyance of lost rent/vacancy/turnover costs, but it means that the people who are there are paying what they ought to be paying.

It's when you get people who are reeeeeeally quiet, stay put forever, and don't mention problems, that you know you're undermarket. :)

So I wouldn't take it personally--- you've just got people who are in a very transient stage of life, where they're pursuing opportunity where it takes them. And there's not the contrasting lure of an apartment that's $x below-market to keep them staying put, because how could they ever find a similar deal elsewhere? ;) --96.46.xxx.xx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Dec 28, 2019 2:55 PM
Message:

Deanna,

I don't take it personally. It's just annoying. And you're right. When I hear that someone has had a tenant for many years it usually means that the rent is too low.

--76.120.xx.xx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Dec 28, 2019 2:59 PM
Message:

i'm getting request for 2 year leases, cause people are tired of moving - that's the answer they give me --174.155.xx.xx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Dec 28, 2019 3:34 PM
Message:

over a 3 year period 98% of mine move. It's the way we designed it. with 6 leases up a month (sometimes more) its 2/2 and 2. Two get huge increase to move, 2 get medium increase and one gets the nusuence raise.

No vacancy June (so partner can take vacation while kids out of school. none in Nov and none in Dec "scheduled" of course all good LL's know the serious renters know they can milk the system Nov and Dec to live for free since no judge or court will let you evict then. LL's know what I mean.

I love turnovers-- keeps my places fresh and updated and are TURNED QUICKLY. --99.103.xxx.xxx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Dec 28, 2019 3:50 PM
Message:

I don't mind one turnover per month, but three is not good. I agree, though, that they are great for refreshes. --76.120.xx.xx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Dec 28, 2019 4:44 PM
Message:

Yes, I keep people forever and am below market rent. However, I don't have one to two month vacancies every year or every two years so it works in my favor. It's my business model. YOu have your business model. And if too many people are moving out then maybe someone's personality is not very nice eh? --173.61.xxx.xx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Dec 28, 2019 5:06 PM
Message:

Listen, if everyone stayed forever we'd get bored and our places would be carpy. --50.82.xxx.xxx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Dec 28, 2019 5:49 PM
Message:

AllyM is so, um, precious! --76.120.xx.xx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Dec 28, 2019 5:57 PM
Message:

My mom use to say that she didnt want them yo stay more than a few years. They should buy and get on with their lives. Really she wanted into the property for some improvements that cant be done with people living there. She claimed it keep her property market value up. Appreciation. Suppose that was her model of business. --99.203.xx.xxx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by fred [CA]) Posted on: Dec 28, 2019 6:26 PM
Message:

I'm with AllyM on this one, I'm definitely slowing down, so...

- I don't want to have vacancies, lost revenues.

- I don't want to have showings, deal with no shows, answer the phone, advertise on CL, give out applications.

- I don't want to deal with Bee Es prospective tenants.

- I don't want to deal with upgrading, remodeling investing cash on things that new tenants will break in a year.

- I don't want 14 hr working days.

- I don't want to take tenants to LL court and to see how judges ignore old laws that don't fit their agenda anymore.

I'm not all negative:

- I want to have max revenues and gladly pay my taxes.

- I want time to do regular maintenance.

- I want short working days.

- I want to visit national parks. Zion Nat park is next.

- I want to see the younger landlords bust their ___. It's their turn. --99.59.x.xxx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Dec 28, 2019 7:15 PM
Message:

I had 9.2% vacancy this year. I think I need to carefully lower my criteria. Last year was a lot less than that, but I don't remember exactly. --50.107.xxx.xxx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by ned [AL]) Posted on: Dec 28, 2019 9:40 PM
Message:

I tend to average 3 year stay in my 2BR 1BA homes. I prefer longer stays, though.

If you're good with constant turnover, it must mean your biz model is really good at turnin' em quick.

With Class C tenants...it seems to me that almost every turnover requires a bit of time and money and hassle...

I'm all about: long tenancy + reasonable rate increases... ok being a tiny bit under "market" as long as I have a good, long-term tenant. --70.92.xx.xx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Dec 29, 2019 9:00 AM
Message:

If they can qualify to rent from me, they can qualify for a mortgage. Anyone who can qualify and who doesn't buy at the current mortgage rates is a fool. My tenants leave when they buy a house.

Unfortunately, I've tried accepting applicants who look like they can pay rent but have something on their credit or income that would make it difficult to get a mortgage. That doesn't work. The banks give them a mortgage, anyway.

I've had tenants buy a house where I am mystified about how they got a mortgage. So a person has to really be the dregs if the can't get a mortgage and buy.

The last house I sold (this year), the buyer didn't have to have over $1,000 to get the mortgage and complete the purchase. I wouldn't have rented to him, but he bought a house. --98.146.xxx.xxx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by LisaFL [FL]) Posted on: Dec 29, 2019 9:02 AM
Message:

Ned- I agree completely! Most all my tenants are long term. Sounds like you learned like I did you must do increases, even small ones or it will hurt you.

I have one ten year tenant that is way below market. Most all of mine are below market but he is the worst. And now he's spoiled. Complains about any increase. So he's been told to be grateful because once the house becomes no longer worth owning then I'm selling it. At this point I think I'd be happy if he moved.

Because I am with Fred! Even with good, clean, easy to deal with tenants and little turnover there are still constant things to do it seems. In just the last week I had:

Plumbing leak due to parking over the water line (discovered a precious repair had been done and was not buried very deep but tenant still shouldn't be parking where he was).

Call about a fence gate not functioning properly (new gate in 2017). So not exactly old as I maintain things.

Call about tenant wanting touch up paint because the command strips she used to hang stockings took the paint off the wall when she removed them (hate those things).

One no AC call.

One call about malfunctioning garage door (springs had both broken- I had the door installed new).

That's just this past week. And all my properties are maintained. At some point you just want it to stop and retire. I am at that point. --216.186.xxx.xx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Dec 29, 2019 9:15 AM
Message:

Not only refreshes, but more FEES during turnovers. I've learned to make them profitable. Each time someone leaves and I get a new someone, I get new pet fees, new blinds (they break most of them), touched up paint, etc.

If they stay put, that same old critter only made me $150 from 3 years ago. If they move each year, I'm getting $450. What's not to love about change overs?

Thinking about adding a move-in fee. It's getting more common in my area. Managers are advertising $300 move-in fee + $300 deposit whereas before it was just a $600 deposit. Same amount of funds required, but manager is now able to keep $300 regardless of what happens. I think this approach combined with the 2-minute in home inspection to scout out filthy and/or damage-causing tenants could be a profitable change!

I could also see that working as a tool to encourage longevity if that's what you desire. Maybe the move-in fee gradually converts to a Security Deposit....1/3 of the move-in fee per year, so at year 3 it's back to being 100% deposit. --107.216.xxx.xxx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Dec 29, 2019 9:43 AM
Message:

I have a couple of 10-year tenants. Actually 3 now, I think.

And I have one place that turned over THREE times in about 6-8 months last year! New unit, not ready yet but prospect was getting divorced, wants one of our studios that will be available in a few months. She's a GOOD prospect - Coast Guard - so she moves into the new place to wait (while we continued to work on it) then moves to studio. Next tenant in there a few months, gets pregnant, gets married and buys a house. However, she found a replacement tenant who moved in for the remainder of her lease, which is up in April. So that's three moves in 2019 just in that one place.

BUT not one empty day. --50.82.xxx.xxx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Dave i [CA]) Posted on: Dec 29, 2019 9:59 AM
Message:

The four R's prevail

Reasonably raise rents regularly

Keep them at the lower level of comps or even a bit under market

Explain and document openly why your having to pass thru increased expenses

I like giving tenants an example of everyone's cost of life going up with an example of increased costs they are also incurring in their business or industry which THEY are being forced to pass on to their customers.

I hate having vacancies. A month lost is 8.5 percent of the years potential revenue.

That's a lot.

And turnovers ALWAYS cost you something,...even if it's just cleaning carpets and mopping down surfaces.

There are many of us who will rent to the first warm body with cash and who can hold a pen and make their X on the last page,.....then we hope for the best ,....which usually never comes,.....or don't even care.

Then we whine about the war stories we have to tell about the horror shows we cast ourselves in..

Having no tenant is better than a bad tenant.

But I do try to carefully and properly screen tenants and respond promptly and properly to maintaince issues --172.250.xx.xxx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Dec 29, 2019 10:04 AM
Message:

I agree with Dave, except for the last part of the last sentence. You have to respond promptly to maintenance concerns and problems. --76.120.xx.xx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jim in O [CA]) Posted on: Dec 29, 2019 10:11 AM
Message:

The best part about this whole thread was: Having no tenant is better than having a bad tenant. I think I will put that on my computer monitor so I donít forget. --99.23.xxx.x




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by fred [CA]) Posted on: Dec 31, 2019 9:03 AM
Message:

Jeff Co,

Having 17/26 tenants move out in 18 months could be your attitude towards tenants.

But hey, it is your business, run it the way you like. --99.59.x.xxx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Dec 31, 2019 10:01 AM
Message:

Fred, you should brush up on your read and comprehension skills and stuff like: "...have very good business relationships with the tenants. All three said in their e-mails that they enjoyed living at the property and appreciated how they were treated."

But then, you're the guy who thinks that it's the landlord's responsibility to work around a tenant's lease violation.

Got it!

--76.120.xx.xx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by fred [CA]) Posted on: Dec 31, 2019 11:51 AM
Message:

Bottom line Jeff: I have no vacancies and you are 65% empty in the last 18 months.

Jeffrey has no vacancies and so do may other LLs in this best economy in decades.

Maybe you should stop talking and start doing?

Maybe you should change your attitude towards your tenants?

Things can turn worse for you, you know, you could have 100% vacancy rate!

Happy new year to you, and let's discontinue this dialogue. --99.59.x.xxx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Dec 31, 2019 12:19 PM
Message:

Fredo, your post is pretty whacky and funny.

I don't think you're a landlord.

But at least you're having fun here.

--76.120.xx.xx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Dec 31, 2019 12:19 PM
Message:

Fredo, your post is pretty whacky and funny.

I don't think you're a landlord.

But at least you're having fun here.

--76.120.xx.xx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Pmh [TX]) Posted on: Dec 31, 2019 3:08 PM
Message:

Iím with Fred. 17 out of 26 units in one year & half indicates to me you have other problems. --104.218.xxx.xx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Dec 31, 2019 3:15 PM
Message:

Cap'n Obvious right there! Of course there are other problems. People always have a reason to move out. --76.120.xx.xx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by captain obvious [TX]) Posted on: Jan 3, 2020 5:51 PM
Message:

yes, all will have a reason for leaving. not sure if anyone would not have a reason for leaving....my renters all leave. eventually. ......may behoove you to figure out why your renters donít want to stay..... --107.77.xxx.xxx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Jan 3, 2020 6:59 PM
Message:

To me it doesn't matter why they are leaving. It matters THAT they are leaving. But it's just part of the business.

I never ask why, but quite a few tenants have told me that they are leaving this market and others have bought houses.

I have great business relationships with my tenants. One guy who moved out sent me a $100 Nordstrum Rack gift card a few months ago! --76.120.xx.xx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by captain obvious again [TX]) Posted on: Jan 3, 2020 8:12 PM
Message:

I think a good business person would want to drill down on why they are losing business...all my leaving renters refer replacements to me....if 17/24 is a ďgood relationshipĒ for you then I canít imagine what you think is a bad relationship.... --107.77.xxx.xxx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Jan 3, 2020 8:58 PM
Message:

I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you. AGAIN - and I will type this slowly for you - quite a few tenants have volunteered that they were moving out of the area or were buying houses. And again, almost every tenant said that they enjoyed living at the property and appreciated the great service. You might be jealous that you don't get those kinds of e-mails. I get that.

I don't have any reason to ask. I don't care why they leave. And when they leave I re-rent them quickly (this is a hot market) for more money. I just don't like the time involved with turnovers. --76.120.xx.xx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Jan 3, 2020 8:58 PM
Message:

I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you. AGAIN - and I will type this slowly for you - quite a few tenants have volunteered that they were moving out of the area or were buying houses. And again, almost every tenant said that they enjoyed living at the property and appreciated the great service. You might be jealous that you don't get those kinds of e-mails. I get that.

I don't have any reason to ask. I don't care why they leave. And when they leave I re-rent them quickly (this is a hot market) for more money. I just don't like the time involved with turnovers. --76.120.xx.xx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jkj [MA]) Posted on: Jan 3, 2020 9:38 PM
Message:

Iíve read your spiel many times, you know, that youíre a professional, everyone else is doing this as a hobby, or are downmarket landlords. In fact you say it every time someone posts something you donít agree with. You insult anybody that doesnít agree with you, and by your own words youíre a perfect, professional landlord, with perfect properties, and youíre tenants love you. So why do you continue to post on this site? --174.196.xxx.xxx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Jan 3, 2020 9:55 PM
Message:

Unlike you, I don't know it all. Despite being in the business for a while and having my properties running like fine-tuned machines, I still run into problems. I am learning and fine-tuning every day. Some folks here have a good approach and know what they are doing. Most do not. Both groups can be learned from - one what for what to do, and one for what not to do.

Getting emotional and commenting without reading and understanding an original post doesn't look good. Just sayin... But thanks for reading my posts! --76.120.xx.xx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jkj [MA]) Posted on: Jan 3, 2020 10:19 PM
Message:

Ok Mr. Professional, as you say, youíre dismissed. --174.196.xxx.xxx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by LisaFL [FL]) Posted on: Jan 3, 2020 10:54 PM
Message:

JKJ that was a great summary! And I thought it was just me! --216.186.xxx.xx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Jan 3, 2020 11:09 PM
Message:

Kk, glad to give you stuff to say as you can't come up with anything on your own. :)

You're welcome! --76.120.xx.xx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jkj [MA]) Posted on: Jan 4, 2020 12:19 AM
Message:

Jeff the fact of the matter is that I believe you are a professional LL and indeed run your business as a well oiled machine. Iím sure you have a lot of knowledge that would help many LLís that may be in need advice. Unfortunately instead you choose to post in a way that makes you appear cocky and dogmatic. Thatís the real shame here and itís unfortunate. Have a good new year. --174.196.xxx.xxx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Jan 4, 2020 10:51 AM
Message:

Jkj, you made some good points there for sure.

Happy new year to you, too. --76.120.xx.xx




Constant Turnover Cont'd (by captain obvious again [TX]) Posted on: Jan 4, 2020 1:32 PM
Message:

jeff > read SLOWLY....my renters leave after 2-3 years.....your renters donít stay....// --72.180.xx.xxx





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