How would you handle this

How do you deal with husband and wife tenants in which you get along just fine with the wife but the husband may have a bi-polar mental condition and he chooses to have a heated argument with you on small insignificant details. If I try to deal just with his wife, that only pisses him off more.

Yesterday the husband called and chewed me out for something so stupid and ridiculous that it is not even worth mentioning here. After listening to him curse me for 5 minutes for being a pitiful LL, I gave him the 'happy clause' and told him he is welcome to move and I would even give him his full deposit back. That was enough to get him to calm down and then he hung up the phone on me,.. but I know his wife does not want to move out.

The husband here is expecting me to send him a document that makes his 1-year lease 'null & void'. I will be creating that document today but both he and his wife will have to sign it.

How you do deal with these situations where one person on the lease is normal and the other is a real nut case? --68.63.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by Adele [FL]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 8:15 AM
Message:

I am sorry for your troubles! Sometimes, at the start of my lease, I establish with the couple who will be the main point of contact and get their cooperation on that from the start. This usually keeps down on the miscommunications between me and the two residents. And I do not have to contact one additional person to let them know I am working on the apartment, etc. You may not have known from the start that this particular guy was going to be hard to deal with. It sounds like your only choice is to get them out, as he is who he is. --64.16.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 8:30 AM
Message:

Adele,

The wife here was the one from beginning that established herself as the main decision maker (she had the good paying job w/benefits) and she is the one that pays the rent each month. Her husband has a part-time job that does not pay much. That is the situation as I know it. --68.63.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 8:30 AM
Message:

CURSE U? For real?

NFW! I don't allow them to even raise their voice to me. I calmly tell them if you yell or scream at me I'm hanging up. I don't do it and don't allow others to do me that way.

I proceed to send a letter explaining that I can no longer accept communications from the (yelling party) person. Future contact including maintenance calls will only be accepted from so and so (the calm one) --99.103.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 8:38 AM
Message:

Myob,

The husband here thinks because his wife pays the rent on the 1st every month (she does) that he and wife are entitled to have a LL that will drop whatever he is doing and come over and fix small insignificant things at a moment's notice. --68.63.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 8:45 AM
Message:

Entitlement mentality,i wouldn't have rented to them in the first place if I knew that about him.If he started yelling at me I would have just hung up on him.In the future I simply would not talk to him,if he called I would tell him to put his wife on the phone,if he refused I would hang up.They would get the point eventually. --104.229.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by Frank [NJ]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 8:47 AM
Message:

It's tough but unless you run a social service agency as well this is not your problem. If he is as you say then this will be a never ending roller coaster ride

--174.225.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 8:54 AM
Message:

Ken and others,

If you have ever been chewed out by someone who may have been raised in the ghetto,..then you would know the foul words that were spoken to me yesterday on a cell phone. Hanging up on them is not the thing to do since that only enrages them more. At some point, you have to deal with them one way or other.

--68.63.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 9:03 AM
Message:

Voicemail. That will solve your current problem. Make yourself a rule to return phone calls only during normal business hours, when you are sitting at your desk, full shirt, shoes and showered with your business hat on and only 24 hours after the voice mail came in. (Yes i had a young lady like this, not as bad but bad) it helps to delay 24 hours. If they call on friday at 3pm... no call back, no text reply until Monday at 3pm. Business hours only. Emergencys are fire and water or winter furance out. Those handle as you would otherwise, now! You can only control yourself and hopefully train the man to respond to you with respect. Sorry you had to endure that, put on your business hat and only return calls on your timeframes when you are prepared to handle it. It doesn't help to be busy and caught off guard. Boundries. Hope that helps. --99.203.xx.xx

How would you handle this (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 9:08 AM
Message:

Roy thats true-- it does enrage them more-- that's the point. The calmer you are the more enraged they get -- and they get burned out cause there's no one listening.

After reading your second post Roy since it's all minor stuff--- do you supply a maintenance request form at move in? We do. This form is for tenants who haven't learned how to talk to the good LL. We tell them all maintenance request must be mailed in for our record. Most never use the form but occasionally its a good tool for the unhinged ones.

I noticed you said cell phone-- we have one cell phone that is not on to often. If I need to text I never use my cell only the office cell-- as I said is turned off most of the time. --99.103.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 9:29 AM
Message:

Plenty,...lets talk voicemail here.

Several years ago, on Christmas Day, I decided this would be the perfect day to let "all calls go my voice-mail" for change of pace. Plus, I was spending quality time with my dear Mother and did not want to be bothered by anyone so I turned my cell phone completely off.

At 8:00p.m. that same day and I turned the cell phone back on and had 25 messages from one tenant who was Section 8 and had a clogged kitchen sink drain. She was totally pissed that I was not returning her calls and coming to fix her problem on Christmas Day.

The only point here is, as a LL, you have to deal with your tenants problems at some point. I think it better to deal with it at the very beginning and not let it escalate to something else. --68.63.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 9:41 AM
Message:

Roy,i have dealt with class c type tenants my entire life,by hanging up the phone you remind them who is in charge and you will not take that garbage from them and yelling at you will get them nowhere,staying on the phone while they yell at you only encourages it the next time and arguing or yelling back only shows them that you don't know how to be in charge of a conversation.My office is not open on Christmas,any reasonable person will understand this,i would be telling that tenant to find another place to live,i don't deal with entitlement mentality people --104.229.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 9:42 AM
Message:

"We tell them all maintenance request must be mailed in for our record."

MYOB - I have considered a Maintenance request form, however, since I work from my home, I would not want to give my tenants my home address for them to mail anything to. The only thing my tenants know is my cell phone number and that is all they need to know. When you deal with a pissed-off tenant that maybe unhinged, it is extremely important they do not know where you live. Some will come looking for you,..especially if you hang up the phone and try to ignore them. Think seriously my friend about what I am saying here.

--68.63.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 9:50 AM
Message:

Ken,

I have quit accepting Section 8 tenants for a variety of reasons,...mostly because they are all just too 'high maintenance'. The tenant mentioned in this post is not Section 8. Having an entitlement mentally can happen with any tenant. --68.63.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 9:57 AM
Message:

Sounds like he feels that he is "less of a man" because his wife makes more money and is speaking for them to you. I have been in a relationship where I made more money. Significant other becomes a tyrant. I seriously don't think you can nullify their lease. Find some wording on the lease itself that would fit his treatment of you and then send them a cease and desist notice for that or really anything they have done to break the lease. As landlords we sometimes have to put up with other peoples' psychological crap to do our job. After listening to my parents for years before Dad passed and I took over, I knew that there would be psychological problems to deal with as well as carpentry and flooring. You can do it. Humor him and say Yes sir a few times. That should fix it. this kind of thing does make me get an acid condition though so hard to do for a long time. --173.61.xxx.xx

How would you handle this (by Jim in O C [CA]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 10:01 AM
Message:

At my age and financial situation I would tell wifie the next time i hear from your husband you will get a notice to move. I don’t need his crap at all. He is your problem not mine. --99.23.xxx.x

How would you handle this (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 10:12 AM
Message:

I tell people to TEXT or EMAIL maintenance requests. I tell them, "At our advanced age, we have brains like a sieve and we WILL forget if you tell us verbally." Which is too true, btw ;)

Works for us. --50.82.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 10:37 AM
Message:

Roy no PO box???? I'm shocked at that because they don't cost that much and the security it affords is incalculable. We have 3 PO boxes and 4 hard wired telephone lines. The 3 PO boxes are for different entities: properties- corp and home repair business. Keep them separated -- including PO addresses.

One line is house line-- private for family only so when it rings you know its family or relative, second is tenant line, 3rd is advertising line (it doesn't even ring and 4 is advertising, faxing and spare line incase we have several homes for rent at one time - it doesn't ring either.

As you can see we value our privacy and off time. Loved the xmas phone story----- turning off the phone served its purpose.

Is there ever a real emergency? in 35+ years I haven't seen it yet. --99.103.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by RB [MI]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 11:02 AM
Message:

In past threads, you were the BIG guy nobody messes with.

What happened ? --184.53.x.xxx

How would you handle this (by Tarheel T [NC]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 11:29 AM
Message:

This year I had a tenant,a middle aged woman, who from the beginning of the tenancy would yell,cuss, and threaten to sue. An entitled section 8 tenant. Her boyfriend who was not on the lease but who probably lived there was very nice and easy to deal with. I was locked into a 1 year lease and she knew that and wasnt about to leave. It was a rough year but she moved out on her own and is now tormenting a different landllord.

Roy, its not going to get any better so dind a way to get rid of them both.

--68.119.xxx.x

How would you handle this (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 12:30 PM
Message:

When a tenant, and have plenty of them, starts to abuse me, I have to remind myself that being a landlord has many inherent issues that causes me natural stress that I can't do anything about. When the tenant starts to rant, curse or raise their voice to me I need to decide if the tenant has any merit to their claims, or are they crazy loco!

If the tenant is crazy, then I need to start divorce proceedings. I'll issue them the right to break the lease and "move out since apparently they aren't happy living in my rental".

So now the tenant see's their conduct has benefits from being a jerk. They will have to look for another place to rent. Get approved. Pack and move. Then pay those costs and alert everyone, creditors, banks and friends of their new address. It's going to be a lot simpler if the curb their conduct and treat their landlord like a "special" person deserving some respect.

The moment a tenant is given the green light that you're allowing them to move, their personality will change for the better.... --47.156.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by razorback_tim [AR]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 1:25 PM
Message:

"How you do deal with these situations where one person on the lease is normal and the other is a real nut case?"

I count my money. I'm in this business to generate cash flow and build wealth, not make friends with tenants. Dealing with difficult people is part of the process. Control your emotions and figure up how much they are going to pay you over the 2-5 years they will live there and it makes dealing with them a whole lot easier. --70.178.x.xx

How would you handle this (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 1:40 PM
Message:

I think you open yourself up to a lot of these problems. Text or email only. --50.32.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by RentsDue [MA]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 2:38 PM
Message:

I used to have a career that required me to take training classes on how to deal with irate and aggressive people. When they are just yelling , the protocol is to just let them go for it and wear themselves out (as long as they aren’t making physical contact). Once they are done, they usually calm down and most will apologize for their behavior. Not all. Now that I don’t have to follow protocol I have my own rules. I have a LL version of the swear jar. Anytime a tenant yells or swears at me their rent gets raised $100.00. It doesn’t make anybody a nicer person but they find someone else to yell at. --71.10.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 5:33 PM
Message:

It's odd that you have anything more than a business relationship, that you talk with them on the phone, and get personally involved. The happy clause is almost always a sign of bad landlording. --76.120.xx.xx

How would you handle this (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 5:37 PM
Message:

Maybe I should tell you all what prompted this stupid and ridiculous phone call from the husband.

Several days ago, the wife called me and asked if I could bring some weather stripping over to seal a small air gap around the back door. Since I was in the neighborhood and had some with me, I took it to her and she graciously thanked me for bringing it over so soon. I told her I would be glad to install it but she stopped me in mid-sentence and said "I can do this myself since it is the easy 'peel and stick' kind which is easy to put around the door jamb. So, I gave her the rubber weather stripping and left. Her husband was not at home at time.

Yesterday, her husband calls me and wants to know why I did not install the weather stripping. I told him 'your wife offered to do it and so I let her'. He goes on to say (in a heated voice) that installing weather stripping is NOT MY WIFE'S job and you should have done it instead of her. I then asked him "why are you so upset about me not installing the weather stripping?" Then he starts telling me about how they pay their rent on time each month and they expect better service from their LL than someone who is lazy and expects them to do everything (which is not the case here). Then the foul words came out,...'you are a M-Fing lazy LL who is not worth S#%t. At this point, I was offering the 'Happy Clause'. This entire phone call was about weather stripping and whose job it is to install it! --68.63.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 5:59 PM
Message:

Robert J said, "If the tenant is crazy, then I need to start divorce proceedings. I'll issue them the right to break the lease and "move out since apparently they aren't happy living in my rental".

Thanks Robert - that is exactly what my thoughts are here. --68.63.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by fred [CA]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 7:43 PM
Message:

Roy,

You get swept into pointless loud arguments, because you let it happen.

Get rid of the loud mouthed JEALOUS PSYCHO tenant with a chip on his shoulder, and learn from your mistake: screen your calls. --99.59.x.xxx

How would you handle this (by Tarheel T [NC]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 8:33 PM
Message:

If mtm i would give them notice. This is a rare type of tenant, and its not a lack of screening, just life. --68.119.xxx.x

How would you handle this (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 8:42 PM
Message:

Well then, this is not about you at all! This about He's the man protecting his woman. Bad Roy! You bad man and he had to say it in ear shot of his wife to score his points. Piss ing contest. Just let that one go. He's proved his point. And never go there ever if he isnt home. He's the man, he was insulted! He pays the rentn, he was insulted. He was protecting his woman. Carry on... let it go. --99.203.xx.xx

How would you handle this (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 9:26 PM
Message:

I thought you said it wasn't worth discussing here, I prolly would just give the written repair forms, 3 at a time. Ask them to be mai!ed to a p.o. Box. --65.25.xx.xx

How would you handle this (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 10:16 PM
Message:

Raise his rent if you are going to keep him,get paid if you put up with the pita --104.229.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 10:45 PM
Message:

There's no way I'd take that keep of crap off a tenant or anyone else for that matter. I don't care if he is bi-polar. After I told him I gave the stuff to his wife, that's the end of the conversation. If it descended into cursing, I'd be looking to get rid of them whether she's sane or not. It's not going to get better and I don't like the entitlement attitude where someone thinks I'm supposed to cater to their every whim and need, especially in the instance you've described. Get rid of them. --209.122.xx.xxx

How would you handle this (by small potatoes [NY]) Posted on: Dec 23, 2019 1:03 AM
Message:

I have tenants where the wife is the stressed out hold the family together bread winner and the hubby is anxiety ridden mostly jobless crutch.

He flys off the handle easily. I do not engage with him and the wife understands. If I have to go there and he gets worked up I let it slide off my shoulder. The unstable ones do apologize later. There are not enough holy grail C tenants that some form of social service handholding is required from time to time. At this point I'll take a headache over an empty apt w/ the ajada of screening prospects under the new NY laws.

For those of you who suggest ignoring or hanging up repeatedly on an aggressive bi-polar person, this is not wise. They can be prone to violence and might have it in for you, some day. --24.194.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Dec 23, 2019 8:02 AM
Message:

What is really odd here, for the last 6 months, these tenants (husband/wife) have been really good tenants. They pay rent on the due date and keep the house (inside & out) immaculate. Their grass always has that 'manicured look' which is rare for my tenants.

I really do not want to see these tenants vacate over a small incident that pissed off the husband. There is a wound here that needs time to heal. I am thinking about writing them a letter and basically tell them what I have just told you all,...'you all good tenants,..blah, blah, etc. I am much better at explaining my position in a typed letter than in email or texting. --68.63.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Dec 23, 2019 8:10 AM
Message:

Roy,if you write that letter and send it to him you will be seen as weak by him and it will only get worse.

Small potatoes, if I don't hang up they will think they can keep doing it --104.229.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Dec 23, 2019 8:12 AM
Message:

Roy yea why not go over and wipe his toush!!!!!

What you should write is how you won't tolerate this type behavior. This time, with the holidays coming up, you let it slide. I am your landlord not your punching bag.

Merry Christmas

ROY

--99.103.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Dec 23, 2019 8:32 AM
Message:

From my point of view, being a good landlord is learning how to deal with PEOPLE, which can be the Good, the Bad and the Ugly. Last summer, I lost my cool (shouting match) demeanor with another tenant over another stupid issue. I learned from experience,..no matter what,..don't lose your cool with a tenant who is pissed off. With the husband here, I did not lose my cool and just let him blow-off some steam until he hung up on me.

At the next Mr. LL convention, I think a good round-table discussion topic would be on "how to deal with a pissed-off tenant" and I would hope there would be consensus on the best way to handle a tenant that is irritated. --68.63.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Dec 23, 2019 9:22 AM
Message:

Type the letter and send it to yourself and reread it after a few days. Edit? Delete? --99.203.xx.xx

How would you handle this (by gevans [SC]) Posted on: Dec 23, 2019 1:51 PM
Message:

Tag this person on your phone as "NO NO NO!!"

And never answer that number again. Let them leave a voice mail or text, and you do the same. NO VERBAL COMMUNICATIONS.

I too would be prone to dump this guy, but if they are otherwise OK tenants, just never have that conversation again. End of story.

My tenants ALL communicate with me via text or email. Some know my address; it's a small town like yours. --69.80.xx.xxx

How would you handle this (by Dave [MO]) Posted on: Dec 23, 2019 4:22 PM
Message:

Roy, if they have been good tenants, he could of had a bad day at work, or you have no idea what she said to him when he got home from work about the insulation for the door, ect. As LL we have to have thick skin and let words roll off. Move on and let it go. They pay rent and take care the home. --72.24.xx.xx

How would you handle this (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Posted on: Dec 23, 2019 4:28 PM
Message:

Easy. Do what the husband wants. Start to void the lease and have them move out. If she wants to stay then it's her job to rein him in. Once he's been properly scolded, you can repeat. Turn it into a him -vs- her thing instead of him -vs- you. If she wins and neuters his temper you win, if he wins and they move out, you win. --108.69.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Dec 23, 2019 5:35 PM
Message:

Dave (MO)

Since becoming a LL in 2005, my skin is about is thick as it going to get. And this is not the first time I have ever been chewed out by a tenant and it will not be last time either. I am not taking this personally though. I was going to write a letter to them but have decided against that. Not worth the effort. I'm moving on. --68.63.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by MJ [PA]) Posted on: Dec 23, 2019 10:25 PM
Message:

In my 20 plus years of doing this business I have learned that there is no right way to deal with the ghetto type people. You have to be mentally tough entering this business but taking abuse year after year from such morons is not fair. They are better suited to public housing projects and other institutions and not private landlords. The entitlement issue will remain and these tenants think of us landlords as their servants who should just jump whenever they call. Lesson learned, just don't accept people like them in the future and do not renew their lease. Checking someone's social status and education is more important than checking their credit. I only check background and eviction records and verify income. A good person will be good and pleasant to deal with no matter what happens. --76.125.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Dec 24, 2019 8:17 AM
Message:

Great answer MJ !!! Thank-you so much!

When I first met this couple, they both seem perfectly normal. I screened them like any other applicant (my screening policy is similar to yours). I had good communication with the husband and wife from the very beginning of the lease. Why the husband flew off the handle with me on the phone is still a big mystery to me.

--68.63.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by Jasper [OH]) Posted on: Dec 24, 2019 11:54 AM
Message:

Roy, to answer your observation about these tenants at the inception of the lease, the holiday season can be a time of great stress and sadness for some people, rather than a joyous occasion and celebration of the Lord's birth. Let it play out for the remainder of their lease and see how it goes. --71.30.xx.xx

How would you handle this (by Lana [IN]) Posted on: Dec 26, 2019 4:37 PM
Message:

Life is too short to take verbal abuse even for money. We can screen everyone thoroughly and you still don't know them until they are in your unit. When I have a Tenant like that it's usually a borderline personality disorder and when I realize that, I get them out ASAP.

Borderlines, start out real nice and then all their relationships slide into abuse and drama. You will always be wrong to them.

When they are in a Lease, I offer the Happy Clause. The Happy Clause makes me happy. I do not feel it is any failure on my part, because this does not usually show up on screening, they know how to snooker people.

My Leases, roll into a month to month after 12 months, and I give them notice in this situation. I have never regretted invoking the Happy Clause or giving notice.

--216.23.xxx.xx

How would you handle this (by Lana [IN]) Posted on: Dec 26, 2019 4:38 PM
Message:

Borderlines, start out real nice and then all their relationships slide into abuse and drama. You will always be wrong to them.

My Leases, roll into a month to month after 12 months, and I give them notice in this situation. I have never regretted invoking the Happy Clause or giving notice.

--216.23.xxx.xx

How would you handle this (by Robin [WI]) Posted on: Dec 28, 2019 8:36 AM
Message:

Everyone has bad days. You never know what might be going on behind curtains. Sounds like they have the potential to be good tenants, with certain limitations. I have a couple where the husband freaked out because of something really minor that I didn't respond to immediately. The wife called back and apologized, and we decided between the two of us that she would handle all communications between us from then on. Problem solved. They've been model tenants since. --204.210.xxx.xxx

How would you handle this (by Cjo’h [CT]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 12:08 AM
Message:

Happy New year Roy,All part of the Christmas Festivities I must be living a charmed life.All the tenants have my address and phone number,but they never call.Dont know if they’re still there or not, I have one Section 8 .She has my number,but she never calls either.I got one call today from my daughter.She was halfway home from Canada, from a wake.Driving was good.LIght traffic..........Charlie.................... --32.214.xxx.xx

How would you handle this (by Cjo’h [CT]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 12:19 AM
Message:

I’m only a poor immigrant.Whats an Email or a text.Can you eat them,if not,I don’t want to know!..................Charlie........... --32.214.xxx.xx

How would you handle this (by Cjo’h [CT]) Posted on: Dec 30, 2019 12:32 AM
Message:

Oh!Have aHappy NewYear and a prosperous One Too everyone!....Cjo’h NewHaven..................................Conn...........U S A..........and from all my family backin Co Derry in the North of Ireland and also in Australia....... --32.214.xxx.xx

How would you handle this (by Tills [NH]) Posted on: Jan 1, 2020 11:42 AM
Message:

Roy, I would let them go. It sounds like they will only bring you more misery. Also I agree that even with the best screening practices, you never truly know a tenant until they're living in your property. There's a multitude of reasons, unrelated to you, that they could become unreasonable/unhinged. Sorry this has happened to you, but sounds like you know what to do and are handling it well. Best of luck! --73.61.xx.xxx

How would you handle this (by mike [CA]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2020 11:05 PM
Message:

THIS IS WHY I LOVE MY MONTH TO MONTH TENANCIES. the peculiar thing about bi-polars is that they ALL go off their meds and make a nuisance of themselves. i have been there. toss 'em and say NOTHING about the medical condition. if they make it an issue refer to the threats of violence he has made --76.176.xxx.xxx

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