When I first started in this business (2005), late night TV was flooded with Ads from RE guru's/hucksters promoting their "No Money Down" get rich schemes. Where have all of these late night RE hucksters gone to? Does anyone remember Carlton Sheets? Did anyone here buy his package?

Remember the TV show where Armando Montelongo was the big flipping star? This guy was my favorite even though he was full of B.S.

My real question is this: What has happened in the overall RE market to make 'No Money Down' advertising not appealing anymore?

I got his early stuff. Even met him before. A lot of the guru's have come and gone.

I think either they make enough to "retire" or they have their year or two and fade out.

For a while, once the flip this house craze ran on TV, almost all of them made the circuit. Weather it was planned by the TV people (I suspect it was) or not, they had a beginning, a high spot, and then faded, to be replaced by this year's new and improved model. Or their "new" direction (Ron Legrand did this a number of times).

The thing I got from it all was this: one good idea could pay for it. I just passed on the coaching, being partners, etc. A couple hundred is one thing, 15-30k is another.

WMH,

Yes, the market crashed badly in 2008 and has since recovered. But again, why is no one promoting the virtues of 'No-Money Down' investing anymore? Remember the TV ads that said 'No Money Down" and you can even get money back at closing?

Many of the original gurus are dead... some are likely retired and living off $ from all the programs they sold.

Robert Allen went on to writing books about beating the stock market.

Sid,

Roy, you and I should team up and create a new guru show. We could call it "Hicks 'n Hollers: Making Millions in Real Estate While Drinking Coors (Banquet)."

I always wanted to ask these people....

So if flipping houses is so easy and profitable, why are you selling tapes and books instead of doing it?

So if the price of gold "could go sky high", why are you selling it to me now for this price?

Sid,

I do think the current RE market is 'ripe' for another series of RE guru's.

Roy, hah! Now THAT would be a unique show. Debt-free real estate investing... Not sure I've ever seen that before.

The last guru on my radar seemed to make his money from loaning money to everyone who signed up for his program. "We'll help you find houses in your area, and then we'll loan you the money to invest in them!" The theory being, of course, that if the loan failed to be paid off, they'd have a freshly-renovated house to foreclose on. And if it was successful, well, they still got x% on their money.

The old gurus are retired off the money they snookered from people who paid to see them.

I personally went to many "gurus" free seminars hoping to learn something new to add to my knowledge of real estate. A few had some good tips to share. Most were there to sell their books or expensive training courses.

I took the telephone numbers of others there and kept in touch over the years, wanting to see how successful they became.

Unfortunately those who went into debt to finance the down payment, ended up losing their shirts.

I personally know several "gurus" in my local area. They first became investors and after achieving much success, decided to share their knowledge with others.

Carlton:

Roy - LOL - Yes, I was a disciple of Carlton Sheets. I was living a nice quiet life on the beach in Key West when Carlton came on late night TV and told me I could buy houses for... Nothing Down! That sounded pretty good to me.

I sent in my $99 or whatever, studied hard, I STILL have the book and tapes, moved to Ft. Lauderdale and by darn I bought a waterfront house off the intercoastal waterway for... nothing down! I rented the two extra bedrooms and lived nearly free. In 6 mos I had 6 more rentals and was about halfway to a "gross" worth of a million bucks. My net equity was about $100. I had about 8 grand a month going through my bank account, between rent and my job. 14% interest in the '80's seemed perfectly normal, since it had been 20%. I bought a boat and a brand new truck!

Luckily I was young and could work my job all day and fix rentals until midnight. After about a year of this I realized that if I got caught with several empty units I would be in deep doo-doo, and I was a free property manager for the bank and would be for the next 30 years, and that I lived a half mile from the ocean and hadn't been to the beach in months! I also overpaid for everything. But hey, Nothing Down!

Within 6 months I dumped everything on new suckers, err I mean disciples for... Nothing Down, moved onto the boat, went sailing to the islands for a few months, and more or less lived happily ever after. :D

Marshall:

My main mentor was Marshall Reddick. I don't think of him as a "Guru," but as an educator. At his peak he had over a thousand properties. I met him around '92 when he was teaching college and was a guest speaker at a real estate club with about 25 people. He started his "network" soon after. Back in those days he either gave his materials away or for a few bucks to cover printing. I still have a bunch in a box somewhere.

I liked his style and started attending his club meetings. I was in my heyday as a photojournalist and being an E list celebrity, so didn't have much time for RE. I bought my beach house a couple years later using his foreclosure ideas, and ran it by him first. He made me two million dollars!

I never actually bought anything through the network, but I attended meetings for 20 years, through the frenzied times with 300 people at meetings and standing 4 deep at tables in the back of the room buying houses sight unseen, six states away, and arranging "no doc" loans. That's how I got financed to start my flipping business in 2004. No job, a 200 credit score, huge debt, No Docs, and Nooo problem!

"Hey here's the perfect applicant, give 'em a million bucks to speculate in a super risky business!" What could possibly go wrong? I'm surprised the money didn't come in a briefcase in unmarked bills. (Of course they would have taken my house if I had defaulted.)

And, sadly, I was there after the crash, around 2010, at the last meeting, in a room at the San Diego realty board. People were going broke across the country, Marshall was being sued left and right by angry investors who's bubble burst. His beautiful office building was in foreclosure. Everyone, Marshall included, thought the paradigm had changed and RE would double every 5-7 years forever. They were wrong. I was mostly in cash, and the banks were failing.

There was only a handful of us left, maybe six or eight people. Gone were the days of loudspeakers and microphones, and hundreds of giddy people all clamoring to get rich. Marshal drove up in his mini van. Didn't unload his usual cart of stuff. He just came in and sat on the table and said, "I laid off the staff and filed bankruptcy today." We all cried together.

Like many people he lost a lot of properties, including "my" condo on Maui. He used to rent his two bdrm oceanfront condo to club members for $69 a night. I sure miss those trips. He must be in his late 70's now. I lost touch when we moved to AZ, but he saved some of his properties and I saw he sold his operation to a couple of young fellows a few years ago who are carrying on his work to some extent.

There are still a few around. And there are a couple of the real deals. Ron LeGrand is the true guru on the mountaintop who sometimes forgets (I think) that those of us still on the path can only see what is just ahead.

IMO, if you only learn 1 thing it’s time well spent.

Geez .... tough to follow LTD ... BUT

How many got Mark Haroldson's Financial Freedom Report? The time frame was ~1988-1995. I would read that thing from COVER TO COVER every time it came in the door. And - of course - there were the books and tapes.

Armando:

Remember him? Armando Montelongo,the flashy kid from Texas? He actually lived down the beach from me a few miles after he became a TV star.

When I was flipping houses I hired a young man who wanted to get into real estate. He worked his butt off and I taught him what I could. Armando was his hero. One day he scored tickets to Armando's "event" at the Huntington Beach Hilton and invited me to go.

I was pretty excited too, Armando was going to be there and we would learn all his "secrets." So off we went down the yellow brick road by the ocean to HB. Parking was jammed and I still had press license plates so we parked in a red zone right in front. (Press photographer plates don't make you exempt from anything but most security and cops thought they were some kind of special government plate so nobody ever bothered me. Plus I had a black Crown Vic at the time that kind of completed the image.)

Entering we got a free bottle of water, and listened to the slick black haired warm up guy in his skarkskin suit tell us how rich we were all gonna be. He passed the mic to a couple of other sharks that had been circling the audience of several hundred. My protege and I kind of looked at each other. After about an hour, with the victims whipped to a proper frenzy, Armando himself bounded on stage.

He gave us about 5 minutes, told us about all his depreciating luxury items complete with slides of boats and cars, and that we too could get rich in RE. Informed us how busy he was and for only $$$$ we could spend all day together the next weekend and learn the secrets we thought we were going to learn that night. My young padwan was severly disappointed in his hero.

Wanna know the secrets to getting rich in real estate? I'll save you a buncha time.

Buy low, sell high, or hold and rent. Don't leverage except in times of double digit appreciation or inflation. Fix things right and pay attention to detail. By the worst house on the block and make it the nicest without over building for price point. Curb appeal. And location, location, location.

I think they are all getting TV shows. The telly is full of fixer shows. The gurus can be TV stars instead of selling books.

Roy,

My friend, peek out from under your rock. Yes some of the old names have slowed down but the vacuum they left has been filled 10 times for each oldster.

My inbox is FLOODED with new gurus. New names at each convention. Gotta show a Lambo and a Bentley.

Carlton Sheets: when I had bought about 15 properties on my own I decided I should buy his course ($159 at the time). I went thru it and kept saying "So THAT's what I have been doing! I did not know the technique had a name!"

I collect his sets when I see tham at garage sales, etc. When my kids or nieces/nephews express interest in RE investing I hand them Carlton's set and tell them to go thru it. THEN I will teach them.

We don't watch TV, only Hulu and Netflix so I have not seen an infomercial in YEARS! As a nightowl I watched every one every night. I think it helped motivate me.

I still remember a short Asian guy sitting on his boat with a voluptuous babe on each arm "You too can be (w)rich like me!" in his Asian accent.

Gurus on cassette and in person helped me make millions and earn my FREEDOM!!! Without them I'd still be grinding away, frustrated, part time with a job, and not very profitable.

Knowledge is power and profit in this biz!

BRAD

Than Merrill was doing a circuit here in Dallas one year. After the event, a group of us joined him for dinner. I knew the promoters of the event is why I was invited.

Pretty nice guy, but I got the feeling that the TV show and the tours are where his real money came from.

Luckily his approach was more info packed than the "all this glitz and glamour can be yours" approach. That's a big turn off.

I attended one of those "all this can be yours" seminars once due to pressure from a friend. It was a Neuveau Riche seminar. Ten minutes into the presentation I learned three things....

1. I am never talking to this friend again for getting me into this.

2. I was the only person in the room who wasn't an idiot. Everyone else was salivating at the opportunity to drop $11,000 on this money sucking stupidity.

3. And Neuveau Riche is not a pyramid scheme, even though it looks like a pyramid, acts like a pyramid and their graphics actually showed a chart that actually was pyramidal in shape. Yeah, whatever. Looked Egyptian to me.

They are on Youtube. TV is dead to them.

So you understand, they need a product to pitch so that they have something to speak about.

The real goal is to get 100 people go out their and cold call their relatives. Then bring the lead back to the Guru who has investors. Finding houses is the hardest part, so you need a motivated group with insider info.

Just dusted off my little $8.00 Mark Haroldson book from 1978.

Drove to one of his seminars in Orlando with another couple. It was a great time and still have good memories of the trip.

I kind of think that is where I first heard of "Mr. Landlord".

Like Tryan, we looked forward to the Financial Freedom Report.

Roy sorry I'm late to your post. We're on a cruise ship right now off the LI-- coast -- making the turn at Montalk Point heading into the NE. BUT really who Care's right?

I think the get rich people-- found out--, as evidenced by people who post here, that to be successful it takes TONS OF WORK. Nothing quick about it either (as most here also know).

Charlie - we might just have to do that. We are hoping to make an east coast trip in the not too distant future.

I love Montana, we've made trips there the past three years and spent nearly a month this summer. But that little issue of 40 below in the winter is a deal breaker. We have friends with a summer cabin resort on Flathead lake. They want to move to Phoenix. LOL

Re gurus:

Robert Allen has good ideas with his multiple streams of income. I try to practice that, I think most here do.

Is Dave Ramsey a "guru?"

I went and visited Dave Ramsey in June, is he a guru? Everyone at his HQ was super nice including him.