Lease or M2M
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Lease or M2M (by JKJ [MA]) Jun 16, 2019 11:30 AM
       Lease or M2M (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Jun 16, 2019 12:15 PM
       Lease or M2M (by bet [MA]) Jun 16, 2019 12:37 PM
       Lease or M2M (by GKARL [PA]) Jun 16, 2019 1:26 PM
       Lease or M2M (by 6x6 [TN]) Jun 16, 2019 6:03 PM
       Lease or M2M (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Jun 17, 2019 12:40 AM
       Lease or M2M (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Jun 17, 2019 12:42 AM
       Lease or M2M (by bet [MA]) Jun 17, 2019 6:32 AM
       Lease or M2M (by WMH [NC]) Jun 17, 2019 7:46 AM
       Lease or M2M (by RentsDue [MA]) Jun 17, 2019 8:27 AM
       Lease or M2M (by JKJ [MA]) Jun 17, 2019 8:52 AM
       Lease or M2M (by Deanna [TX]) Jun 17, 2019 8:55 AM
       Lease or M2M (by RentsDue [MA]) Jun 17, 2019 9:42 AM
       Lease or M2M (by JKJ [MA]) Jun 17, 2019 10:01 AM
       Lease or M2M (by Deanna [TX]) Jun 17, 2019 12:03 PM
       Lease or M2M (by RentsDue [MA]) Jun 17, 2019 12:43 PM
       Lease or M2M (by GKARL [PA]) Jun 17, 2019 2:13 PM
       Lease or M2M (by JKJ [MA]) Jun 17, 2019 3:30 PM
       Lease or M2M (by RentsDue [MA]) Jun 17, 2019 5:01 PM
       Lease or M2M (by kkezir [KS]) Jun 19, 2019 7:53 AM

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Lease or M2M (by JKJ [MA]) Posted on: Jun 16, 2019 11:30 AM

I have always done 1 year leases. Itís just what Iíve done I didnít know any better. Since I found this site, I have been considering going to M2M. I googled the topic and have read the pros and cons of both, but am curious as to what everyone on here thinks. Which do you primarily do, and your thoughts on the pros and cons. Thanks.

Lease or M2M (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Jun 16, 2019 12:15 PM

I normally do leases, but after attending the convention - I might consider M2M if I can get a M2M fee included with the rent. I am still on the fence about this one as we have lake effect snow here so move out in the winter can be brutial

Lease or M2M (by bet [MA]) Posted on: Jun 16, 2019 12:37 PM

I dont see any reason to use mtm. Lease break fees are an entire additional source of income. We never not know when someone is moving. On every lease renewal, the rents are raised. You can give any tenant tenant a 30 day notice to vacate, they always leave in our case. They leave early a lot of time but the apt is still paid for and you get a chance to renovate and re rent without the tenant living there. You control when the apt is available by asking 60 days in advance whether they are renewing or not. What does a mtm do for you, vacancies in the dead of winter with no notice from tenant?

Lease or M2M (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Jun 16, 2019 1:26 PM

I do both. Jury is still out, but I'm leaning more towards leases, but nothing like m2m to clear out a mistake. I'm trying to screen better to eliminate mistakes.

Lease or M2M (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jun 16, 2019 6:03 PM

I use to only do leases.

I am trying something new this time. I still have a year lease but now they can check one of two options. The lease automatically renews. They can check for a 1yr renewal at a certain rent increase or they can check that after lease end it goes to M2M with a higher rent increase.

I want at least a one year commitment up front to make it profitable for me.

My lease also now has an ELT fee if they need to get out of a one year term.

I think this allows the best of both worlds.

The down side would be if they left in the winter like Ray-N-PA said but I have not figured out yet exactly how others prevent that anyway.

Hope this helps and whatever you decide works out.

Lease or M2M (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Jun 17, 2019 12:40 AM


The enemy of landlord profit is turnover. Resident retention should be TOP on our list of priorities.

Some LLs like MTM because they are afraid the res might be bad and their local eviction process might be expensive and cumbersome.

I say "Did you screen thoroughly to high standards?" and "Have they been good for a year?" If so why operate in fear they might need to be ousted.

Stay in control and lock them in for another 12 months.

We bring in THOUSAND$$$ every year in Early Lease Termination Fees. This paid cash for my Porsche 911 in just one year. If I had been MTM I'd be driving Yugo!

Another reason is LLs who are afraid to renew or raise rents.

My lease is clear (and easy): This lease renews automatically on the anniversary date each year for another full 12 calendar months with a 2.9% Cost of Living increase.

There! With a few words I have renewed without chasing and raised the rent without wringing my hands in anxiousness.

Stay in control. Do not give control to your residents.


Lease or M2M (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Jun 17, 2019 12:42 AM


Jeffrey did a great talk on this exact topic at National Convention. THAT's why we go - to learn from the best!


Lease or M2M (by bet [MA]) Posted on: Jun 17, 2019 6:32 AM

" The enemy of landlord profit is turnover.". For us, the opposite is true. Land-lording is my job, so if I have turnover that is part of my job. With every turnover I get to inspect my apt, do upgrades, renovate and raise the rents and gives me a chance to clean out the marginal tenants, like the ones who lied about smoking, causing too much wear and tear etc. Our apts stay updated, clean, freshly painted. When they are there yr after yr the apt is trashed from excess wear and tear, the rents dont go up as high as clean turn overs. We dont lose a lot of money on the renovates. We dont lose money on empty apts. I have two now that then tenants are leaving June 30, new out of state

(college) tenants moving in Aug 1. We are able to update and renovate apt that are already rented but not occupied and we will collect a total of $4800 more a yr on those 2 units. Yes please leave. lol

Lease or M2M (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jun 17, 2019 7:46 AM

A decent tenant does not want the uncertainty of a M2M lease. A teacher, a nurse: they need to focus on working, not on housing issues or the whims of a landlord.

A landlord who screens well doesn't want the uncertainty of a tenant who could move with just 7 days legal notice and no consequences.

Anyone can break any lease at any time for any reason, but at least in that circumstance, you can legally retain their Security Deposit to cover any financial damages, and you can charge an ELT if you are able to do that in your market. And most tenants, if they have to break a lease, want to work with you to get it re-rented quickly, to mitigate THEIR damages as well.

Lease or M2M (by RentsDue [MA]) Posted on: Jun 17, 2019 8:27 AM

I only do MTM, because of where we are. In any other state I would probably do a lease. I have seen too many times how a lease works against a LL in court. I have incredibly high screening standards and my average tenant stays 5 years.... on a MTM. The threat of tenants moving in winter should not be a deciding factor, nobody wants to move in the winter. If the reason was so compelling they would leave if they had a lease or not. Sometimes things go bad and you need to have leverage. You should spend a few hours in your housing court to get a feel for how things operate there, thatís when I decided to do MTM only. Unless itís a housing voucher, then MA doesnít give you a choice and forces you to do a year lease- that should tell you everything you need to know about why a lease is not in your best interest.

Lease or M2M (by JKJ [MA]) Posted on: Jun 17, 2019 8:52 AM

Brad 20,000 thank you for your insight, you always post in a very understandable concise way and I have learned a great deal from you. I wasnít able to go to the convention, I hope to go next year. RentsDue, Ill have to make some time to go sit in on my housing court. Where I stand now is, I screen extremely well, (always did, but really upped it after being on here), I have ELT fees, and a very well written lease (that I polished up with my attorney after being on here), I need to see what my housing court does, because Iím just thinking for example, if I have a tenant that violates the lease by say storing stuff in a common area, and they donít cure it after getting notice, will it be easier to end the tenancy with a M2M or will a judge evict. I wonít have my answer till I observe housing court, thank you everyone.

Lease or M2M (by Deanna [TX]) Posted on: Jun 17, 2019 8:55 AM

I do a MTM lease as well. In Texas, I can't garnish. In my area, I'm not renting to an affluent enough population to charge an ELT, and they don't care about their credit getting dinged. I have no hold over them to keep them from doing what they're going to do anyways--- so my MTM is more to keep from binding myself to rules on my side, while allowing them to ignore the same rules on their side.

This year is our ninth anniversary ll'ing. Out of all the houses/tenants we've been running, I've only used the MTM card on a paying tenant once. (A female couple-- they both screened clean for criminal-- one of them worked 80-hr weeks at the nursing home-- the other was "about to apply" wherever, mmhmmm-- after I approved them, the town grapevine mentioned they were active in the local drug scene-- they had regular enough early-morning visitors, I couldn't tell if it was drugs or prostitution-- goodbye. I gave them notice on Thanksgiving; they were out on Christmas Eve.)

Lease or M2M (by RentsDue [MA]) Posted on: Jun 17, 2019 9:42 AM

This was the case that made the decision for me. One of our local LLs had a tenant that violated the no pet policy and brought in a pit bull. They served a NTQ and the tenant refused to get rid of dog so they moved to evict based on not curing the lease violation. The LLs insurance company had cancelled their insurance at this point because of the pit bull. The Judge , who happens to be a huge animal advocate, refuses to evict . He tells the LL that he is still insurable through the state insurance pool ( at an extreme premium) and unless he can prove itís a financial hardship there will be no eviction. He must wait until lease is up and not renew. That was even before ESAs.

Lease or M2M (by JKJ [MA]) Posted on: Jun 17, 2019 10:01 AM

RentsDue, that is exactly why Iím considering going M2M, I donít want to have a lease with a set of ďrulesĒ that a judge simply wonít evict if they violate. Im on the fence, because I understand and agree with the pros of a lease, but what good are clauses in a lease if the housing court judge doesnít think the lease violation is severe enough to evict. Thanks for the insight, Iím going to sit in on my housing court. Itís actually very frustrating, a violation of the lease should result in an eviction order from the Judge, but Iíve heard that is not always the case. Another question then, couldnít the same happen with a M2M, the judge decides not to terminate a tenancy??

Lease or M2M (by Deanna [TX]) Posted on: Jun 17, 2019 12:03 PM

Does MA require cause to end a MTM? We don't need Cause in TX. Just like a tenant can give their notice without needing to provide a reason for going, a ll can terminate without providing a reason. But MA may look at it differently.

You don't say, "I'm sorry, everyone knows you're running drugs out of your home, and I noticed all your customers are men, so I'm wondering if anything else is going on, and it's time to go." Because of course, they deny, deny, deny. Cue the righteous indignation.

Instead, you say, "This is your 30/60/whatever days' notice." And when they say, "But I luuuuuv it here! Why?!" you just stand strong and don't give them Reasons to argue with.

Lease or M2M (by RentsDue [MA]) Posted on: Jun 17, 2019 12:43 PM

Iíve never seen a judge refuse to let a LL terminate for no-cause. There is nothing to argue or prove. There is no question as to whether or not a violation merits terminating the tenancy. The tenancy is being terminated by terms previously agreed to by both parties. As Deanna stated, that is the whole reason for terminating ď no causeĒ instead of ď causeĒ. That would be the judge allowing them possession indefinitely and we arenít there...yet. Being ď no causeĒ does give the tenant a better possibility of being granted a stay. But , like most other things, I had had a judge grant stays to a tenant who was evicted for non payment. They have no authority to do that, but do it anyway.

Lease or M2M (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Jun 17, 2019 2:13 PM

Like I said I have both m2m and leases. There are a couple of the m2m tenants who are very long term. I've had one who left after 3 months in the dead of winter and another who I terminated. Outside of those two, I've not had a problem. I'd like to say that leases provide some predictability, but that depends on the tenant base. If they don't care about lease terms, they certainly won't care about ELTs. The tenants I have in leases are known quantities that I want to keep. Also, leases tend to make a MFH more valuable IMO if you're looking to sell. I'm inclined to go for the better tenant that I don't mind putting into a lease, but the tenant base has to support that. If it doesn't, m2m is the way to go.

Lease or M2M (by JKJ [MA]) Posted on: Jun 17, 2019 3:30 PM

RentsDue, that is what I meant, a stay. Iím sorry Iím not familiar with the terms. The reason Iím giving the lease vs M2M some thought is as I said I have always done a 1year lease. Iíve been lucky and had ok tenants, and a great tenant that stayed for 4 plus years. My current tenant has been in the unit for 3 months and seems to always test the terms of the lease, Iíve giving him 2 cure or quit notices already. He cured the issue each time, but Im just thinking 1 day he wonít. That got me thinking a M2M would have been better because Iíd just get rid of him, with the lease Iím stuck playing this game for the next 7 months. Thanks for the advice RentsDue and everyone else that responded.

Lease or M2M (by RentsDue [MA]) Posted on: Jun 17, 2019 5:01 PM

The other HUGE advantage with a MTM is that you can increase rent whenever you need to, not just at the end of their lease.

Lease or M2M (by kkezir [KS]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2019 7:53 AM

We do MTM. In the 15yrs of ll'ing I have given 2 30 day move out notices. They were both on paying tenants. The first was on a couple that had lived there 18mon.. where the husband was being difficult and it got to the point where my husband could not speak to him.. so then I started handling all communication. After he cussed me out of the phone.. I told my husband that they had to go. We gave notice.. and it was the same month that they were getting married (which I didn't know). Talk about bad karma coming back to hit you in the face.

The 2nd was with a girl (lived there 6mon) that seemed to have a lot of traffic coming through, a bf that would yell in the middle of the night and throw her in to walls?, and an unauthorized roommate.

Both of them were out by the end of the 30day notice.

I waffle back and forth about lease vs mtm. I would like to 1yr lease that goes mtm.. but my husband like mtm. It has worked well for us.

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