HUD softens on animals
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HUD softens on animals (by gevans [SC]) Jun 13, 2019 2:57 PM
       HUD softens on animals (by DJ [VA]) Jun 13, 2019 3:09 PM
       HUD softens on animals (by Doogie [KS]) Jun 13, 2019 3:32 PM
       HUD softens on animals (by Tony [NJ]) Jun 13, 2019 3:53 PM
       HUD softens on animals (by John... [MI]) Jun 13, 2019 4:53 PM
       HUD softens on animals (by Nellie [ME]) Jun 13, 2019 5:58 PM
       HUD softens on animals (by Moshe [CA]) Jun 13, 2019 6:07 PM
       HUD softens on animals (by Robert J [CA]) Jun 13, 2019 8:57 PM
       HUD softens on animals (by S i d [MO]) Jun 14, 2019 9:33 AM
       HUD softens on animals (by John... [MI]) Jun 14, 2019 11:09 AM
       HUD softens on animals (by LisaFL [FL]) Jun 14, 2019 2:11 PM
       HUD softens on animals (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Jun 14, 2019 4:04 PM
       HUD softens on animals (by Moshe [CA]) Jun 14, 2019 5:04 PM
       HUD softens on animals (by LisaFL [FL]) Jun 14, 2019 6:24 PM
       HUD softens on animals (by John... [MI]) Jun 15, 2019 12:22 PM
       HUD softens on animals (by NE [PA]) Jun 15, 2019 12:39 PM
       HUD softens on animals (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Jun 15, 2019 6:38 PM
       HUD softens on animals (by LisaFL [FL]) Jun 16, 2019 5:57 PM
       HUD softens on animals (by John... [MI]) Jun 19, 2019 8:59 AM

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HUD softens on animals (by gevans [SC]) Posted on: Jun 13, 2019 2:57 PM
Message:

HUD issued a statement that LLs no longer have to accept on line certificates for service animals, and they are entitled to proof of need for them. About time!

magazine.realtor/daily-news/2019/05/15/hud-to-strengthen-landlords-rights-in-assistance-animal-requests --69.80.xx.xxx




HUD softens on animals (by DJ [VA]) Posted on: Jun 13, 2019 3:09 PM
Message:

Well, gee - isn't that nice of them? Good to know, though --68.10.xxx.x




HUD softens on animals (by Doogie [KS]) Posted on: Jun 13, 2019 3:32 PM
Message:

I like where this MIGHT be headed. Still a ways to go to find out for sure what's going on though. --72.209.xxx.xxx




HUD softens on animals (by Tony [NJ]) Posted on: Jun 13, 2019 3:53 PM
Message:

Great timely news. Thank you for this gevens. --73.215.xxx.xx




HUD softens on animals (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Jun 13, 2019 4:53 PM
Message:

Someone else actually brought this up a week or so ago. Just to clarify, from what I can find, HUD has actually NOT RELEASED any such statement.

The main HUD guy was at a Realtors conference as a speaker and said that they were WORKING "new guidance" that has not yet been released.

There is currently no official statement from HUD about this. And even in the conference talk, he did NOT say that "LLs no longer have to accept on line certificates for service animals."

What he said was that he agrees that there are online places where you just pay for a certificate -- and there is no real doctor or health professional involved. He said that you won't have to take THOSE certificates. He did not at all say that you can deny all on-line certificates. Ones that involve actual health professionals will very likely still be valid.

People need to be very careful about making any changes at this point. Again, they've basically said that they have some new "guidance" under review that will hopefully come out soon. But that doesn't change much right now.

They've also previously made it clear that this does not change the law at all. There is no change there. They are just giving more "guidance" on how to interpret it.

If you really think that you'll no longer have to take ANY "online certifications", I think you're going to be sorely disappointed. That isn't what he said at all. He said that if you get an online one, you'll hopefully be able to do more due diligence to make sure a healthcare provider was involved. But, again, you can likely do that NOW -- because no law is being changed here.

- John...

--24.180.xxx.xxx




HUD softens on animals (by Nellie [ME]) Posted on: Jun 13, 2019 5:58 PM
Message:

Baby steps. But they might be solid baby steps.

The spokesperson said that multiple animal requests and exotic animals are also being looked at!

Sounds extremely positive at this point and Iíll take it!

Now for addressing dog breeds.... --70.16.xxx.xxx




HUD softens on animals (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Jun 13, 2019 6:07 PM
Message:

The online place DOES have a real doctor or health professional involved.

For SERVICE animals, the standards are fairly clear: The animal must perform some kind of service that the patient medically requires,

For emotional support animal, the online place asks a series of questions about emotional discomfort, simple questions but consistent with the psychology profession's attitude: do you feel lonesome, does it depress you, does your depression affect your life, your work, your marriage, your sleep, your weekend boredom, eating, love life, relations with other people? YES? Then you need an ESA, and a credentialed "professional", having reviewed your answers, will make the necessary recommendation.

--47.139.xx.xxx




HUD softens on animals (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Jun 13, 2019 8:57 PM
Message:

Thank you for posting the link to the article. It hasn't shown up yet for my review with my various associations and news letter. I guess the attorney's have to have a "test" case before counting on the article or HUD thoughts -- the change their story often. --47.156.xx.xx




HUD softens on animals (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Jun 14, 2019 9:33 AM
Message:

Yes, this is good news to hear the issue is being discussed. As always, proceed with caution.

I continue not to worry much. People who require 5 alligators to feel emotionally stable in their home likely have other problems that I can legally deny based on. For all others, get inside the property and make sure the animal is not causing damage or disruptions. --173.20.xxx.xxx




HUD softens on animals (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Jun 14, 2019 11:09 AM
Message:

Moshe: Agreed -- I've been trying to explain that to people here for a while now. Most of those online places actually are "legit" as far as the LAW is concerned. They refer you to their "healthcare professional" who signs the letter. People aren't going to be able to decline those still -- even with this upcoming "guidance."

Yes, there are SOME online places that just fake it. But those are rare from what I'm seeing.

More guidance is good, but I don't think it is going to put an end to the easy/online "certifications" like some people seem to be thinking.

- John...

--24.180.xxx.xxx




HUD softens on animals (by LisaFL [FL]) Posted on: Jun 14, 2019 2:11 PM
Message:

John and Moshe while those online places may have a so-called "health care professional" sign a letter they are still bogus.

Go ahead and try it. I have. Answer every question as if you are the most mentally healthy individual on the face of the planet and miraculous you will qualify for an emotional support animal letter.

It is completely bogus. They freely (or rather for a price) give out the letters to anyone willing to pay. If that's not fraud I don't know what is. They need to be sued. --75.89.xx.xxx




HUD softens on animals (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Jun 14, 2019 4:04 PM
Message:

G man,

Thanks! Good to hear they are thinking about it!

I highly suggest each association or each LL make an appointmemt and discuss this with YOUR local Fair Housing director.

I was able to discuss the issue (she is sharp but was not aware of the rampant scamming) and together we fashioned some responses and boundaries to these scammers.

YOUR local board will make the decisions if someone files a complaint, and they will, so be proactive and help the board with some input.

BRAD --73.102.xxx.xxx




HUD softens on animals (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Jun 14, 2019 5:04 PM
Message:

" while those online places may have a so-called "health care professional" sign a letter they are still bogus. "

Mo they're not, Lisa.

The health care provider will be duly credentialed; he/she will be a licensed psychologist/social worker/nurse/physician's Assistant, or even a doctor; he/she will have reviewed the applicant's answers to the online questions; he/she will genuinely agree that, based on the respondent's answers to the online questions, that the patient could benefit from an ESA, and thats what he will attest to in his letter.

The problem is that (1) the applicant can lie in response to an on-line questions; (2) He can exaggerate as to the degree of response. The REAL problem is that anyone who likes his pet will be using it for emotional support, but not necessarily to the degree that the pet is NEEDED or else the patient will suffer grievous emotional trauma.

--47.139.xx.xxx




HUD softens on animals (by LisaFL [FL]) Posted on: Jun 14, 2019 6:24 PM
Message:

Moshe- go ahead and try it. Fill out an online application (no private info needed or verified). Answer all the questions as if you have no problems at all.

You will qualify.

They can have credentials but when they give letters to anyone- including those with no issues at all- that's bogus.

Definition of bogus: not genuine or true; fake.

--75.89.xx.xxx




HUD softens on animals (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Jun 15, 2019 12:22 PM
Message:

LisaFL: You are COMPLETELY missing the point. It doesn't MATTER if they are easy to get or if you think they are bogus. They currently meet the requirements of the federal LAW that matters to us.

Therefore, as far as the LAW is concerned, they are not "bogus" or "fake" or "not genuine or true." They are legit, VALID documents that currently meet the requirements of the law.

That's the point that we're trying to make here. Most of us agree that most of the people using them are likely "bogus" and just trying to get their PET into a no-pet unit without fees. But that doesn't change the fact that they are still valid under the law -- regardless of our belief that they are fake.

That's the big point that you keep missing here. It doesn't matter what we think. It matters what the law says. And the law says that they are valid.

- John...

--96.40.xx.xx




HUD softens on animals (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Jun 15, 2019 12:39 PM
Message:

Screen them out. --174.201.xx.xx




HUD softens on animals (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Jun 15, 2019 6:38 PM
Message:

I am short fat middle-aged and balding - I wonder if I can get a service animal so it can shed some hair for me.

I could if one of my essential life functions was impacted. Since I was going to be a fashion model - it just might fly.

Then again, since I am fat - I am probably disabled already.

I love the law -especial in some states --24.101.xxx.xx




HUD softens on animals (by LisaFL [FL]) Posted on: Jun 16, 2019 5:57 PM
Message:

John I would equally say that you are missing the point. The law does not require we accept bogus or fraudulently obtained documentation just because someone has paid to get such a letter.

The issue is nobody wants to take the chance or risk involved in challenging them.

Hopefully the new guidance will be an improvement but I'm not going to be overly hopeful. And people wonder why rental housing keeps getting more costly. --75.89.xx.xxx




HUD softens on animals (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2019 8:59 AM
Message:

LisaFL: Again, those documents are not "bogus or fraudulently obtained" as far as we, the landlords, can prove. If you want to be the test case that goes to the Supreme Court trying to argue whether or not an online survey was enough of a healthcare check, then go for it! But for those of us that would rather not be sued just to prove a point, the law is pretty clear that, as it is written now, those are perfectly valid documents when it comes to emotional support animals. Again, they MEET THER REQUIREMENTS OF THE LAW.

That is really all that matters unless you want to be the test case in court.

Yes, I think we all agree that no one wants to be the one to challenge them. Again, that's the point I thought you were missing here by saying over and over again that these documents are "bogus." They are NOT bogus according to the law.

If you want the law to change, great! We ALL DO. But as it is right now, they are not "bogus" documents by law.

I also agree with you that I don't think the new guidance will really matter much. Again, the law is not changing at all. They are just re-interpreting it a bit. It might help us a bit with a better idea of what we can ask for as far as verification goes, but I don't think it will stop most of the online "healthcare provider" shops at all.

- John...

--24.180.xxx.xxx



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