Change 2 Window AC (by S i d [MO]) Jun 6, 2019 9:28 AM
Change 2 Window AC (by WMH [NC]) Jun 6, 2019 9:48 AM
Change 2 Window AC (by Steve [MA]) Jun 6, 2019 9:55 AM
Change 2 Window AC (by Ken [NY]) Jun 6, 2019 10:17 AM
Change 2 Window AC (by Roy [AL]) Jun 6, 2019 10:25 AM
Change 2 Window AC (by S i d [MO]) Jun 6, 2019 10:48 AM
Change 2 Window AC (by S i d [MO]) Jun 6, 2019 10:50 AM
Change 2 Window AC (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Jun 6, 2019 10:59 AM
Change 2 Window AC (by S i d [MO]) Jun 6, 2019 11:28 AM
Change 2 Window AC (by WMH [NC]) Jun 6, 2019 12:10 PM
Change 2 Window AC (by Sisco [MO]) Jun 6, 2019 12:43 PM
Change 2 Window AC (by Robert J [CA]) Jun 6, 2019 1:29 PM
Change 2 Window AC (by WL [CA]) Jun 6, 2019 1:45 PM
Change 2 Window AC (by Richard [MI]) Jun 6, 2019 6:47 PM
Change 2 Window AC (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Jun 9, 2019 1:29 PM
Change 2 Window AC (by Robin [WI]) Jun 9, 2019 6:00 PM
Change 2 Window AC (by Lynn [MA]) Jun 10, 2019 10:10 PM
Change 2 Window AC (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2019 9:28 AM Message:
Lately, I have been giving a lot of thought to switching most (if not all) of my humble Class C abodes from Central to Window AC units as they central units die off. A few thoughts as to why:
1) Central AC is cost prohibitive. Recently priced a 2.5 ton 13-SEER replacement at $3,500, labor, parts, etc from a licensed installer. I am not Lee or Vee, so the option to DIY doesn't exist. Btw, this does NOT include duct work...this is for a swap out where a central system already exists, and it further assumes the central furnace is compatible. If not, the total cost rises to around $5,500 for new furnace and new AC.
2) Little or no added rent for central vs. window. My highest priced 2 bed unit right now is $605, and it has window ACs. My highest priced central AC unit is $595. Similar locations, amenities, sizes. The "delta" is the central vs. window AC.
3) Relatively short lifespan for the cost of Central. I bought some new systems for a 4-plex back in 2008. To date, two of them have had to have $400 or more of service work, and one leaked out most of the freon due to manufactuing defect. Sure, there was a recall that included parts, but labor was not included. Had to replace an entire line set AND recharge the system...not covered by warranty.
4) Window ACs don't all die at once. My typical 2-bed unit has three window ACs: one 10,000 - 12,000 btu in a central location and one 5,000 btu units per bedroom (2 units total). If one dies, 2/3 of the house is still cool. Therefore, the dead unit that ALWAYS seems to get reported at 4:30 PM on a Friday night can wait until Monday. No need for emergency service (and pricing!) on a weekend or after hours. Also no need to scurry over the unit ASAP and install a window AC to cool down 1 or 2 rooms so they can be comfy while waiting for normal labor rates to kick in.
5) Cost of replacing 3 window units is about $550. $130 per 5,000 btu and $250 for the 10,000 btu. At that price, I can replace all three units SIX TIMES (18 units total) before we break even on Central Air. Also, keeping in mind that the central units often require service and maintenance, pushing the cost even higher. Yes, there is some added labor and costs will inflate some, pushing the cost higher in terms of dollars, I'll give you that.
6) Lifespan comparison. The average window shaker I own last about 4-5 years. The average Central AC system dies around years 15-20, and again, they seem to require service in the meantime. If my window shakers last 4 years on average and I can replace them ALL six times...that's 24 years vs. 20 years for a central system.
7) Hassle factor. Both window units and central system have hassles. Yes, swapping out window units is a chore, I get that, but the trade off again is the whole system never goes down at once.
I know there are other considerations and this is not intended to be an exhaustive list. The purpose of this post is to see if anyone else has thought about "going window only" vs. central in units that can take either type....and especially if you've had central AC in the past.
Side note: I'm a big fan of central heat when it can fit the dwelling, and the cost to replace a furnace is much lower....$2,000 parts and labor from the same guy who quoted me on the AC. Also, I have had few to no problems with new central furnaces requiring expensive service calls within the first 10 years of owning them, unlike the central AC systems.
Anyone else out there swapping out central AC to window AC?
--173.20.xxx.xxx |
Change 2 Window AC (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2019 9:48 AM Message:
The new units are very efficient and you can sell them as "zoning" for cost savings. We install them in the wall with trim around them so they look good and don't block a window.
Except in our two-story townhomes, they just wouldn't work there. But in our other cottages, they work. --50.82.xxx.xx |
Change 2 Window AC (by Steve [MA]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2019 9:55 AM Message:
Instead of using typical window shakers, whenever possible, I prefer to sleeve them directly thru the wall. We either use a ready made sleeve or make our own. We also add a dedicated electrical outlet so the tenants don't over load the existing circuits. When we make our own sleeve we make it oversize & use PVC trim to seal around the actual AC. This helps us from having to find the same exact size when the time comes to replace it.
FYI when using a window shaker for a thru the wall installation, it's real important to make sure the condensation drips to the exterior & doesn't end up leaking into the wall. --96.237.xx.xx |
Change 2 Window AC (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2019 10:17 AM Message:
In my area class c rentals landlords don't provide any air conditioning but if I needed to it would be window units only.When I clean out houses I buy there is often window units left behind,i don't even check them just toss them out but I would check them and save any that work if I had a need at other units for them regularly --72.231.xxx.xxx |
Change 2 Window AC (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2019 10:25 AM Message:
Great topic Sid!! I need to look at my list of houses which have window units vs. Central systems,..and try to make a similar cost to replace comparison as you did.
I do have several houses with 20-25 yr. old Central H/A units that will need to be replaced when they die of old age,...so I going to give this post some serious thought. You have made a good case in your decision to switch to windows units.
--68.63.xxx.xxx |
Change 2 Window AC (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2019 10:48 AM Message:
Thanks for all the comments so far. Yes, I like the idea of "zoned cooling" and have highlighted that before. It actually does make sense in many ways.
I also like the "thru the wall" and dedicated circuit concepts. Some units I've already done dedicated circuits, and now that I have a moonlighting electrician who will run a line for me for about $100 it makes sense to at least put the 10,000 btu unit on it's own...maybe the bedroom ones too.
Roy, you and I cater to the same clients. I hope we both find some value out of this.
Btw, to be clear for everyone, these are CLASS C. There is little to no chance they will ever be owner occupied. I see Central Air being a must in Class A or B....but Class C units it's a "nice to have but I'm not paying more for it"...in my market at least.
The other problem with Central AC is the Gub'mint in its wisdom keeps pushing for higher efficiency, which will result in AC units that are more expensive to purchase and have more complex parts that will break. Furnace efficiencies have already "peaked" at around 98%, but you can still buy an 80%. Lower efficiency AC on the other hand gets outlawed. I don't think you can even buy brand new 13-SEER any more unless you live up north where cooling seasons are shorter and not as severe.
Keep the thoughts coming, please! --173.20.xxx.xxx |
Change 2 Window AC (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2019 10:50 AM Message:
Btw, I was wrong in my initial post about the SEER rating of the unit I priced. It was 14. Apologies. --173.20.xxx.xxx |
Change 2 Window AC (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2019 10:59 AM Message:
Sid,
Great analysis.
Nice homes: central ac for sure.
For homes without central we offer 2 window ac. We drop them inside the front door and let the res install. Remove them at move out for lockbox showings.
$109 - 10% coupon at Lowes. We buy 20 each year to replace break downs. Not worth fixing.
We also keep a few spares for homes with central ac that go out on the hottest days when the HVAC guy is backlogged.
Caution: must stock up now because they will sell out in a single day. Lowes does not restock after July? but Aug and Sept are still hot here.
When I see them in pawn shops I wonder if they are mine!
BRAD --73.102.xxx.xxx |
Change 2 Window AC (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2019 11:28 AM Message:
Brad,
Thanks for the info. Btw, your Lowes is cheaper than mine. Right now the cheapest 5,000 btu AC is $149 (10% off discount brings it to $135ish).
You let residents install. Any issues with broken windows, dropped units, etc? I know you're smart about this...so just curious if you've had any problems.
I don't fix 'em either. Swap out and scrap them. There's always a hauler who will take them for free.
I keep 5 units on hand for the same reason as you, to keep a central AC place cool so we don't pay time and half rates on nights and weekends. Just think, if we get them ALL on window AC, I won't even have to keep them in stock. Just go get a new one and residents can leave a bedroom door open to keep temps reasonable.
Btw, last year my Lowes carried ACs well into Sept, which is when I usually buy them for the next season. Also, if I recall correctly Lowes.com sells them year round with free shipping to the store. Local hardware store also carries them into Sept, so even if Lowes sells out and I can't wait for the next truck, I have an alternate source.
Wal-Mart has some $136 5,000 btu units as well, but they sell out in early August. --173.20.xxx.xxx |
Change 2 Window AC (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2019 12:10 PM Message:
Costco's ACs are well priced.
But we buy mostly combo heat pump/AC units for the cottages as no one wants to use baseboard heat. About $600 at AJ Madison (best price we've found) almost 1/10th the price of a central unit. They last for years, but even if they lasted only a few, still cheaper than central.
We never repair them, when they die we toss and buy another.
Tenants love them. --50.82.xxx.xx |
Change 2 Window AC (by Sisco [MO]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2019 12:43 PM Message:
In an effort to reduce costs, I have always bought my equipment and contracted repairs/installations.
--72.172.xxx.xx |
Change 2 Window AC (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2019 1:29 PM Message:
I've purchased a few home without central A/C in the Hot San Fernando Valley. In the good areas I've installed used (less than 3 years old) systems from people who added rooms on to their homes and had to up-grade their central air.
In the "B" and "C" areas with old central air and heat I've installed window type or through the wall a/c in key areas so the tenant could limit the costs of running a central system when only a person or two were at home, instead of cooling a 1500-2000 sq foot home. This worked well so when the central air dies and only puts out heat, the tenant had to use the window type units. It was in their lease, "Landlord shall provide air conditioning by the three window units, and the central system is an added bonus that is NOT guaranteed to work".
I put a window/wall unit in the dinning area, master bedroom and some other common area -- like a 2nd bedroom or den. --47.156.xx.xx |
Change 2 Window AC (by WL [CA]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2019 1:45 PM Message:
I retrofit my units with the Lowe's 36x36 windows. Perfect size for a bedroom window 5000 btu unit. Take out the old single pane, reduce the window size down to 36x36, pop in a Walmart 5k AC, and the tenants can sleep when it gets hot. AC c raps out, tell the tenants to buy another at Walmart and I'll have it installed for them for free! C class tenants love these AC units... --201.140.xxx.xx |
Change 2 Window AC (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2019 6:47 PM Message:
Up here in MI , I don't provide any a/c units at all. If tenants want one I tell them to get a window unit at Wal-Mart. Used window units can be found for $50 on Craigslist.
Since I started doing this, no more problems but those of you in warmer climates, I understand.
There, I'd go with window units like Brad does. --71.10.xx.xxx |
Change 2 Window AC (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Jun 9, 2019 1:29 PM Message:
I offer window AC units on a rent to own pace. I have the resident tell me what they can afford - typically it is $10/month more and I divide the cost of the unit into the payment and extend the lease from 12 months to 15 or 18 months. After the lease is over, I sell it to them for $1
Sure I could make money on the RTO transaction, but instead - I am lengthening my leases which is my known profit center. At the same time, i am forcing the resident to create buy in to stay there by making the AC unit theirs. I really don't want a bunch of used AC units sitting around. This works great for class C units. --24.101.xxx.xx |
Change 2 Window AC (by Robin [WI]) Posted on: Jun 9, 2019 6:00 PM Message:
My units are C+. Only one had functional A/C at the time of purchase. That one is still going. I've had tenants ask about getting central A/C, but when I offer to split the cost they stop asking. I agree with the others--the ROI just isn't there.
The one issue I have with window A/C units is that they're a security issue. I've had break-ins where they push the A/C unit in and then climb through the window. I like the idea of sleeving them through the wall and may do that at some point. --204.210.xxx.xxx |
Change 2 Window AC (by Lynn [MA]) Posted on: Jun 10, 2019 10:10 PM Message:
My central ac condenser deteriorated and wii be replacing with a portable ac. I only supply thru the wall units in certain locations. I would not supply window shakers. --66.30.xx.xx |
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