--76.92.xx.xxx

You can most certainly can restrict other people's animals being brought onto your property. Honestly, I'd get rid of a tenant with such an entitlement attitude. --216.186.xxx.xx

Thank you for your quick response. I lurk here a lot but, this is the first time I have posted. Lots of great information here. --76.92.xx.xxx

BRAD --73.102.xxx.xxx

BRAD --73.102.xxx.xxx

No way. You don't owe them anything. Those with the ESA are not your tenants. If they want to push it send them packing if necessary. --24.20.xxx.xxx

I suppose it would depend on the animal, how often they visited, and the tenant for me. If it was a small well behaved animal with a responsible owner that didn’t visit that often and a good tenant it wouldn’t bother me all that much. With that said, if the tenant approached me with a “you have to” attitude, it was a large, poorly behaved dog, and they visited all the time, that’s a horse of a different color. As others have said, ESA laws only apply to the residence of the person requiring an ESA. --71.248.xxx.xxx

;) --96.46.xxx.xx

Leave the animal out in the car, as a side note all animal damages go to tenant - they can collect from the friend who brought the animal onto your property. --76.188.xxx.xx

--96.40.xx.xx

Thank you everyone for the great responses. BTW it is a pit bull. I have not seen it but, within 3 hours of the tenant's daughter visiting with it I received a text from another tenant asking if they could get a pet. Yes Brad it is annoying. --76.92.xx.xxx

Of course it's a pit bull. I haven't met a tenant in the last three years with a pit bull that didn't claim it was an ESA. Surprise, surprise! --24.20.xxx.xxx

Looks like it's time to develop more lease clauses. As if we don't carry enough risk and liability. And people wonder why rental housing is so expensive. --216.186.xxx.xx

Tracey, what type of rental is this, is it owner an occupied multi-family home? --71.248.xxx.xxx

It's a four plex not owner occupied. --76.92.xx.xxx

I am attending the Landlord convention in Cleveland next week and really hope to get some details on this. I have had a couple of people apply to rent my units that stated they had ESA but the applicants did not meet other qualification criteria so I dodged a bullet. --76.181.xx.xxx

Well let me revise my answer, as John pointed out, I really don’t know 100% for ALL LL’s. For some LL’s, no, you don’t have to. Certain LL’s are exempt from the FHA, that includes me. My answer remains unchanged FOR ME. The examples John referenced if I remember correctly are news article’s, so they are that persons opinion of the law (not saying they are wrong) 1 of them clearly refers to “service animals” not ESA’s. As far as actually cases brought against a LL by HUD I have only read 1. And it’s very convoluted, the case is U.S. v. DeAngeli, in that instance there was a consent decree entered. HUD does not specifically cover the issue within its notice to housing providers. All references to having to allow a guest’s ESA are based on violating the tenants right to enjoy their dwelling, and some are suggesting that by not allowing a guest that has an ESA to visit your tenant, you are violating your tenants rights. Others are saying that the LL is not violating the tenants rights, that the LL is not preventing the tenant from having visitors with ESA’s, just preventing them from having the ESA. ESA’s are not legally required to be allowed in public places, I.E. businesses, work, hotels, shopping malls, restaurants, etc, etc. So I just don’t know the correct answer, I think HUD needs to clarify and specifically address how FHA laws apply to tenants that have guests with ESA’s. --71.248.xxx.xxx

Tracey, in the mean time, provided you don’t want to test the legal waters of HUD, you CAN request all legal ESA documentation, insist the dog remains leashed, it’s “business” is picked up after, and you can meet and evaluate the dog. ESA’s are a case by case process, you don’t have to allow an animal that is aggressive. Most likely this grown child doesn’t have the proper ESA letter or an ESA letter at all, and after you request the documentation that will be the end of the dog visiting. In my experience most people with ESA’s (not all) are lying just so they can take the ESA where ever they want or have a pet. --71.248.xxx.xxx

--24.180.xxx.xxx

John, the reason I “back pedaled” was I realized that for most LL’s my response was not accurate after reading your post. Secondly, I am exempt from both federal and state FHA laws, I own a 2 family which I live in. Not sure how you think I said it’s the right answer for me but for a different reason, my reasons for my answer remain the same, I realized my reasons do not apply to everyone, which admittedly I wrongly believe before. So, as I said in my original answer,if it were me, it would depend on the animal and the tenant. I say this because I don’t have to allow any. . Why I changed my answer was because I realized that I don’t know 100% if a LL doesn’t has to allow a guest’s ESA. The only actual case law I could find pertaining to a guest’s ESA was “U.S. v. DeAngeli” and it was a convoluted case. Ultimately there was consent decree entered. Iof you could please post the case law where a landlord had charges brought against them and lost. Also please show me where it specifically says in HUD’s guidelines “specifically” that a LL is violating a law by not allowing the ESA of a visitor. I ask only because I’ve read lawyers explain it both ways, that because of the lack of guidelines the law is open to interpretation. I’m not talking about “service animals” I’m talking, as is the person that posted the question, about ESA’s, specifically if they have to allow the ESA of a guest. Which is why I also suggested in the second part of my response that Tracey can ask for an ESA letter, insist it remains leased, it’s waste is picked up, and to meet the dog, because you are not required to allow an aggressive animal. --174.199.xx.xxx

--24.180.xxx.xxx

John, I have already addressed the fact that my first comment was not accurate to all LL’s., that I am not 100% sure, and that I was mistaken in my post. That is why I revised my post. My point was that HUD and the FHA does not specifically address allowing a guest’s ESA. In my research, (albeit online) I have read legal opinions about this topic.(that better? I didn’t write “I have lawyers that I read” by the way, I wrote “I have read lawyers explain it both ways” I’m pretty sure you knew what I meant though) I have also read stories in news articles. I have read opinions that suggest they must be allowed, and I’ve read opinions that suggest they do not need to be allowed. I personally have found no court brief that shows a judge found that a LL that denied a guest’s ESA violates FHA laws. I realize that a lack of court decision doesn’t change the law. My point was just that there is the law, and how judges interpret the law. I would like to see a judicial interpretation of the law. I say this because I agree with the opinion it is open to interpretation. I will look again and find the articles I have read that are of the opinion that a LL is not violating any laws by denying a guest’s ESA and post them. But I still remain UNSURE on the topic. I personally have not read any factual proof that says a LL has to allow a guest ESA, that doesn’t mean if I wasn’t exempt I’d want to test the waters, because I also have not personally read any factual proof that a LL doesn’t have to. --174.199.xx.xxx

John, when I say “my point is” I’m referring to my revisions, not my original post. --174.192.xx.xx

--96.40.xx.xx

John, I realize my post was wrong for all LL’s which is why I reposted and said I was mistaken. When I say it doesn’t apply to all LL’s I’m referring to exempt LL’s. Surely your not telling me that a legally exempt LL must allow an guest’s ESA? Also I cannot find the articles I read, I read them late 1 evening after randomly looking up info. But if I remember correctly (I may be wrong) I read that the common thought is that it would be a violation of FHA laws due to the fact “a LL cannot discriminate against a tenant, or a person associated with a tenant, the other argument is that it violates a tenants right to have “full use and enjoyment of the unit”. What I read was that this person (I believe it was an attorney) disagreed with that. His opinion was that as far as the “full use and enjoyment” argument, the LL is not denying them visitors, their denying the visitors animal. So the tenant is not being denied full use and enjoyment. As far as the discrimination violation, because HUD and FHA are not specifically addressing guests ESA’s then the discrimination would be based on the ADA guidelines. The ADA recognizes “service animals” as an animal that performs a specific task, I.E. help guide the blind, turning on lights, picking up things, sensing seizures, sensing low blood sugar etc. The ADA does not recognize the act of providing sheer comfort as a service animal. So therefore, as we know “service animals” cannot be denied in public places, but ESA’s CAN be legally denied access to public places I.E. restaurants, businesses, work, etc. therefore a LL is not legally required to allow a guest’s ESA because it’s not discrimination based on the ADA’s guidelines. If a LL said to a tenant your guests “service animal” is not allowed, that would be discrimination based on ADA guidelines and in turn a violation of the FHA. Now as far as a tenants ESA, HUD and the FHA specifically address the issue and as we know, LL’s must not discriminate against a tenant with a legal ESA letter. Before anyone jumps down my throat, although I happen to agree with this opinion, I would not want to be the first 1 to test it and try to prove it right. Also, these were not my opinions, it was an opinion I read, and happen to think it sounds plausible. I just could not find it again to link it here, so please, if you read something similar I’m not trying to claim it as my writing. Or if I misunderstood what I read, please let me know what I misinterpreted. Also, I’m not trying to argue with anyone, I am just sharing a point of view on this that I thought many LL’s would find interesting. --71.248.xxx.xxx

--24.180.xxx.xxx

John, First and foremost let me say I wanna thank you for being respectful and keeping it a friendly dialogue of sorts. Now, it’s entirely possible I misinterpreted what I read, and as I said I thought it may have been an attorney. But your explanation makes sense to me. The only thing I wonder is, where is the line between a guest and a visitor. I realize it states “associated” with the tenant, but could it be argued that there’s a difference between say your cousin coming to visit for 3 days and requires an ESA, as opposed to your friend who is coming over to say hello for an hour? Again I’m not trying to prove you wrong, this whole ESA thing just peaks my curiosity and this is a good format to see what other like minded individuals think. --174.192.x.xxx

1 thing I’ll add that I think everyone can agree on, the way the guidelines are worded is ripe for abuse from those faking ESA’s. --174.192.x.xxx

--24.180.xxx.xxx

First, I also want to thank both JKJ and John for their intriguing dialogue on the subject, for this subject is all new to me. I need a clarification from JKJ (and I welcome John, along with anyone else, to join in) ... JKJ, in an earlier response to Tracy, you stated that [landlords] "... CAN request all legal ESA documentation", along with several other requirements. Can you please specify what all documentation (legal or otherwise) should be demanded? --174.221.xxx.xx

Illinois right now is considering a bill that would make it illegal to deny a rental applicant or to reject any real estate transaction with individuals who happen to have any arrest record. --174.221.xxx.xx

Sorry, that last comment was meant to be posted on a discussion page. My screen jumped, and it landed in here. --174.221.xxx.xx

... on a different discussion page ... --174.221.xxx.xx

--24.180.xxx.xxx

John, thank you for that information. With doing my own research on this, I had been finding bits and pieces here and there, but not getting the entire picture as you had just stated. Unfortunately, the HUD website doesn't really spell out these guidelines in clear and concise English - to the standard reader's detriment ... --174.221.xx.xxx

--24.180.xxx.xxx