No skilled tradesman (by JB [OR]) Apr 23, 2019 9:31 PM|
No skilled tradesman (by Robert J [CA]) Apr 23, 2019 9:50 PM
No skilled tradesman (by LeePookie [IN]) Apr 24, 2019 3:46 AM
No skilled tradesman (by NE [PA]) Apr 24, 2019 3:49 AM
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Apr 24, 2019 4:09 AM
No skilled tradesman (by NE [PA]) Apr 24, 2019 4:18 AM
No skilled tradesman (by Live The Dream [AZ]) Apr 24, 2019 4:48 AM
No skilled tradesman (by S i d [MO]) Apr 24, 2019 5:08 AM
No skilled tradesman (by Steve [TN]) Apr 24, 2019 5:16 AM
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Apr 24, 2019 5:18 AM
No skilled tradesman (by NE [PA]) Apr 24, 2019 5:29 AM
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Apr 24, 2019 5:38 AM
No skilled tradesman (by WMH [NC]) Apr 24, 2019 6:13 AM
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Apr 24, 2019 6:17 AM
No skilled tradesman (by NE [PA]) Apr 24, 2019 6:37 AM
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Apr 24, 2019 6:39 AM
No skilled tradesman (by Busy [WI]) Apr 24, 2019 6:41 AM
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Apr 24, 2019 6:43 AM
No skilled tradesman (by NE [PA]) Apr 24, 2019 6:45 AM
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Apr 24, 2019 6:48 AM
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Apr 24, 2019 6:52 AM
No skilled tradesman (by WMH [NC]) Apr 24, 2019 6:52 AM
No skilled tradesman (by MikeA [TX]) Apr 24, 2019 7:13 AM
No skilled tradesman (by Busy [WI]) Apr 24, 2019 7:48 AM
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Apr 24, 2019 8:03 AM
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Apr 24, 2019 8:07 AM
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Apr 24, 2019 8:14 AM
No skilled tradesman (by JB [OR]) Apr 24, 2019 8:25 AM
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Apr 24, 2019 8:27 AM
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Apr 24, 2019 8:29 AM
No skilled tradesman (by JB [OR]) Apr 24, 2019 8:42 AM
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Apr 24, 2019 8:45 AM
No skilled tradesman (by WMH [NC]) Apr 24, 2019 8:45 AM
No skilled tradesman (by busy [WI]) Apr 24, 2019 9:23 AM
No skilled tradesman (by Deanna [TX]) Apr 24, 2019 9:50 AM
No skilled tradesman (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Apr 24, 2019 10:56 AM
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Apr 24, 2019 11:11 AM
No skilled tradesman (by WMH [NC]) Apr 24, 2019 12:15 PM
No skilled tradesman (by don [PA]) Apr 25, 2019 3:45 PM
No skilled tradesman (by Small potatoes [NY]) Apr 25, 2019 8:29 PM
No skilled tradesman (by AllyM [NJ]) Apr 26, 2019 6:31 AM
No skilled tradesman (by Deanna [TX]) Apr 26, 2019 7:28 AM
No skilled tradesman (by Ken [NY]) Apr 26, 2019 8:13 PM
No skilled tradesman (by Small potatoes [NY]) Apr 26, 2019 9:28 PM
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No skilled tradesman (by JB [OR]) Posted on: Apr 23, 2019 9:31 PM
I've been noticing a shortage in good tradespeople for some time, but also just received this notice from Harbor Freight within an email I received today:
We depend on skilled trades workers. They fix the cars we drive, they build and repair the homes we live in and they do so much more. Yet more than 1.5 million skilled trades workers will retire by 2024, and there are not nearly enough students entering the trades to fill those jobs. Even at Harbor Freight Tools, as weíre building and opening two new stores every week, we struggle to find enough skilled electricians, carpenters, plumbers and HVAC technicians.
The smart parents will be telling their kids to find an organization that needs these types of workers and they'll be able to write their own ticket to a better future. Many companies would probably even pay the bill to have them trained.
Instead of that mostly worthless degree in Liberal arts or Philosophy why not look into something that can actually pay the bills...but then, where's the fun in that? --24.20.xxx.xxx
No skilled tradesman (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Apr 23, 2019 9:50 PM
Here in Los Angeles the City and State makes it almost impossible to hire tradesman, unless they have their own company. Workman's Comp insurance is through the roof. There in a working minimum wage here. Anyone who works more than 8 hours a day has to be paid time and a half....
No skilled tradesman (by LeePookie [IN]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 3:46 AM
I know many HVAC and Plumbers making well over $100k per year that do NOT own their own business. Trades men and women that are rockstars in their field are getting crazy money and benefits (trucks, cell phones, commission on sales, vacation days, iPads, computers, and cool tools)
No skilled tradesman (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 3:49 AM
If my real estate dream fails, I will buy a van and become a full time handyman. Good chance I'll make more than I do now.
About 7 years ago, a kid I knew from high school had recently been released from jail. He said he had a dream while in jail that he had a big construction business with a crew. I figured it was a pipe dream and threw him junk jobs and he did whatever he could to stay busy. Worked for me a lot.
He calls me to help him from time to time on projects. Honestly, he's not even that skilled. Yet he has 9 guys working for him and did well over $500,000 in projects last year.
I can barely get him anymore. --174.201.xx.x
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 4:09 AM
No such thing as a shortage, only the law of supply and demand . They are simply not paying enough. --50.4.xxx.x
No skilled tradesman (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 4:18 AM
Supply and demand vs profit and loss. --174.201.xx.x
No skilled tradesman (by Live The Dream [AZ]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 4:48 AM
I'm afraid what will happen as the baby boomers die off. The younger folks have not learned the skills they need to know. I see corners cut all the time, especially on AC, often by a lack of training and education.
Kids don't have access to the shop classes we had in school. I took wood and metal shop, as well as home ec, clear back in jr high school. I probably made my first dovetail joint when I was 11 or 12. I built my first stairs, by myself, when I was around 16.
When I was young our family sailed a lot and I crewed on a large schooner, back when most boats were made of wood. I learned fine woodcrafting and how to varnish to a mirror finish and to splice wire rope. Later on a job an old guy taught me things like how to hand sharpen and set a saw. I built my own carpenters box like his and I still have it today nearly 40 years later.
Young people today are not learning these skills. Things like how a water level works or why one might use it instead of a laser level or transit (around corners). Or how to use a draw knife to shape a log into a bowsprit. They just want to see how fast they can get done and get paid.
Maybe some is the evolution of technology, I don't know how to make a wagon wheel like my great grandparents, but I do know how to steam wood and I could figure it out. The kids I see today don't even see such skills as relevant
I see total incompetency everywhere. Nobody seems to be able to complete a simple task without being told how, having their hand held, and they still fk it up and you end up doing it yourself.
I dunno, I guess I'm just old...
No skilled tradesman (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 5:08 AM
Back in the 1980s and 90s, there was a huge push to "Get a degree...any degree." I know because that's what I heard for almost 6 solid years of jr high and high school. From my guidance counselor and my well-meaning parents. I have to say it worked out okay...although I did switch from English to Info Tech.
In the year 2000s...the emphasis was "learn to code / computer networking" and you can write your ticket. So far, that has proven true. Cisco certified admins can still make well over $150,000, and many IT managers in big cities do about the same. Even in my relatively cheap cost of living city, IT managers and mid-level coders make $70,000 - $100,000. Not a princely sum, but still enough to live very well. Median house hold income in my town is a little over $29,000 ... yes, HOUSE hold. Talented HVAC techs with a few years under their belt can make $60-$70K, as can mechanical engineers.
But this trend is changing... Mark Rowe of "Dirty Jobs" fame and others are getting the word out. Give it some time. Here are a few encouraging examples of what's happening today.
A friend of mine (mechanical engineer and former VP of sales for Polaris marine division) helps run the GO-CAPS program through our public schools. The program places a huge emphasis on partnering with local leaders of industry and manufacturing to revive interest in the trades. Students meet with business leaders and do projects on everything from building conveyor systems to roller coasters (literally, he has one student who got an apprenticeship with Silver Dollar City, our local version of Disney World, based on his coaster design). Also, we have an excellent, large community college that teaches metal working, welding, HVAC, electricity, etc. Missouri's "A+" program ensures any high school student with a B average or higher and decent citizenship a full tuition scholarship for their 2-year degree or certificate program.
So take heart! I think we're seeing the beginning of change. Are there are lot of "worthless" liberal arts degrees still floating around? Yes... but times they are a changin'. The Millenials got sold a bill of goods about "get any degree" along with the Great Recession, and they have the lessons taught by their crippling student loans and $10/hour barista jobs as a result. So they're now teaching their kids about the value of the trades. People will go where there's money to be made and opportunity to be found, but keep in mind it takes about a decade to see the transition of a new way of thinking that starts in Jr High and ends after 2 years of Vo-Tech.
Tell your kids and grand kids. --173.20.xxx.xxx
No skilled tradesman (by Steve [TN]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 5:16 AM
These young whippersnappers today don't know anything. Why, back in my day, we all went to shop class, lost a few fingers, and we liked it! Now get out of my yard!
The way I see it, there have always been young adults who got worthless degrees. Most do that because they are interested in the subject and not in learning a trade or getting a degree in engineering, business, etc.
The trade schools have always been there. But you can't force people to go and you can't force them to be good at what they do.
It seems to me that the real losers in today's labor market are those who are, let us say, not too bright or not too motivated. In generations past, they were the ones who stood in front of a big machine all day, punched two buttons to cause the machine to stamp out a part, then went home at day's end. These were not skill tradesmen. And these are the jobs that are gone and will never return.
The skilled and educated were the millwrights and engineers and managers. Today's factories still employ skilled millwrights, robotics repair techs, engineers, and managers. But not the guy who punched the same two buttons all day.
There is always a shortage of skilled trades when the economy is good. It is good now. --68.156.xx.xx
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 5:18 AM
NE, most new businesses fail because revenue is not enough to cover costs. Not every business model survives. Even if a business thrives, it may not always. sears?
" Talented HVAC techs with a few years under their belt can make $60-$70K, as can mechanical engineers."
A mechanical engineer in this area with only a BS fresh out of college starts at $60k. If you have a MS (paid for by tuition reimbursement) and 10 years experience, you're looking at double that, $120-140k.
I do not know the answer to this: how far can an HVAC tech advance without opening their ownshop? --144.250.xx.xx
No skilled tradesman (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 5:29 AM
This business model certainly doesn't survive by paying more. The landlord naturally needs to be conservative. We have a defined amount of income every month. And sometimes undefined expenses. (Rainy day fund or not.)
So simply paying more sounds good in theory, but is not practical to apply at least all the time. Once in a while In an emergency, sure but across-the-board it's unsustainable. --174.201.xx.x
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 5:38 AM
NE, I wasn't talking about the LL. I was talking about companies like " Even at Harbor Freight Tools, as weíre building and opening two new stores every week, we struggle to find enough skilled electricians, carpenters, plumbers and HVAC technicians."
As for what LL pays for contractors, you automatically balance that out with what the market says their pay is. You can either pay that or change the job parameters. But at the end of the day, it is simply silly to claim there is a "shortage" of labor --144.250.xx.xx
No skilled tradesman (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 6:13 AM
Mike Rowe has been pointing out this issue for years now. As he says, there are thousands of jobs out there going unfilled due to lack of skilled labor. And millions of dollars in student loan debt for degrees that worthless.
Unfortunately, the trades require hard physical labor. Kids brought up on video games don't want to work with their hands, they want to virtually experience life.
This is our fault. We wouldn't let them go outside to play, we wouldn't let them be "bored" so they could invent, we scheduled their time to the last minute of the day.
You know who has good skilled laborers? Mexico. My son has renovated 6 or 7 houses down there, maybe more now, from the bottom up, using electricians, tile workers, welders, etc. Doesn't do a lick of work himself because he can hire unbelievably talented people for pennies a day. They work in horrible conditions (Mexico is HOT!) Also no such thing as OSHA. I saw a guy welding a beautiful ironwork fence with a piece of smoked glass as his eye shield...
Don't mean to get political, but if we Americans don't want to do the work, we've got to import people who will. --50.82.xxx.xx
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 6:17 AM
Again, there is no such thing as "lack of skilled labor" or " Americans don't want to do the work." The people hiring simply don't want to pay the market wage.
Do you think those workers in Mexico do all these hard jobs in horrible conditions because they "want to work with their hands"? They do it to make money to feed their families. --144.250.xx.xx
No skilled tradesman (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 6:37 AM
David, I can do anything you need in a residential home. From the excavation and footer to the last shingle cap. Even layout if you need. How much am I worth to you an hour? --174.201.xx.x
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 6:39 AM
You are worth exactly what the prevailing market wage in southeast Michigan is. --144.250.xx.xx
No skilled tradesman (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 6:41 AM
So, David, if I offer to pay $5000 an hour, the kid who sits on momís couch all day smoking weed and playing GTA is suddenly gonna know how to do finish carpentry? Good to know!
I had my electrician talk to one of my tenantís kids about his career ( talked to mom about it first.). Since then, Mom said son has talked a little about it. His high school had HVAC guys come give a talk. Kids need someone to show them the options, and say, you can do this.
There is still the idea that Ďthese jobs are gone, and arenít coming backí yet in my state, manufacturers are offering more and more, yet still can not get people to pass drug screening and to show up on time.
Now, get off my lawn! --70.92.xxx.xxx
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 6:43 AM
"So, David, if I offer to pay $5000 an hour, the kid who sits on momís couch all day smoking weed and playing GTA is suddenly gonna know how to do finish carpentry? Good to know!"
Not necessarily THAT kid, but SOMEONE will work for you for $5000 an hour. Certainly LOTS of people will, but if you only need ONE person, then somewhere between $1 and $5000 you will find ONE person "gonna know how to do finish carpentry"
"manufacturers are offering more and more, yet still can not get people to pass drug screening and to show up on time." Then they need to pay more. Simple supply and demand.
No skilled tradesman (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 6:45 AM
Sounds good in theory. --174.201.xx.x
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 6:48 AM
NE, did you just say capitalism sounds good in theory? --144.250.xx.xx
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 6:52 AM
Let us keep in mind that the employer who complains about the pay needed to hire qualified workers has the same beef with the free market that the renter who complains about the rent needed to live comfortably in whatever area --144.250.xx.xx
No skilled tradesman (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 6:52 AM
Locally, Home Depot is staffed by retirees and middle-aged women because they can't find young people who can pass the drug test. It has nothing to do with wages and everything to do with lifestyle. We have a huge opioid problem here and we are a small, isolated community. Talent for almost any job has to be hired from "away."
But there's no housing for them. Which is why we stay full as landlords and can be very picky about our residents. --50.82.xxx.xx
No skilled tradesman (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 7:13 AM
I believe this is likely going to be a short-term problem, much like the affordable housing crunch we are in right now. While I agree somewhat with David, the main problem is that just a few years ago a skilled trades person made $25-30K per year. Kids didn't want to go into trades because it was hard work, didn't pay that well, and there were easier ways to make a living. Now, economy is better, more needs than a few years ago, tradesmen are getting older and retiring, too few skilled people to fill the jobs, and a perception that blue-collar work is beneath me has lead to some crazy increases in incomes, a function of supply and demand. That should cause more kids to go into the field. Give them a couple of years to work through the apprentice programs and it should take the edge off the shortage. The other thing that could happen is it drives inflation up too much then the economy will contract and there will be less demand. The later option, while it accomplishes the same thing, would have lots of other implications for us as Landlords. --50.26.xx.xxx
No skilled tradesman (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 7:48 AM
Mike, that is it. The simpleton idea that one can simply pay much more and qualified workers magically appear ignores elasticity if demand, elasticity if supply. Labor has a stepped supply line. It takes education to acquire the knowledge, skills, abilities. And, IF the less motivated person has plenty of comforts offered for no effort other than having a pulse, it takes lots of motivation to put down the Grand Theft Auto and decide to get the training to take up those high-paying jobs.
Those comforts can come in the form of social support benefits, or parent or romantic partners supplying the comforts. No, I am not saying end all social programs. Most do more good than harm, but, there is a tipping point. And parents need to make the best a little uncomfortable , sometimes a lot uncomfortable to get some adult children motivated. It starts when the kids are young. If my kids didnít pull their weight, they didnít get a free ride.
Encouragement. Pass it on.
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 8:03 AM
"And, IF the less motivated person has plenty of comforts offered for no effort other than having a pulse, it takes lots of motivation to put down the Grand Theft Auto and decide to get the training to take up those high-paying jobs.
Those comforts can come in the form of social support benefits, or parent or romantic partners supplying the comforts."
In other words, inheritances .... only one spouse working ... ::grin::
The labor market is not special. HVAC techs and other contractors are even less special. There are lots of them there, you have to pay the free market wage to get the --144.250.xx.xx
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 8:07 AM
I just find it hilarious that some LL are quick to crucify anything getting in the way of market rents as SOCIALIZM! but manage to find all sorts of excuses as to why capitalism doesn't apply to labor market --144.250.xx.xx
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 8:14 AM
I like how the title of this discussion is "No skilled tradesman" ... a play on the phrase "No true Scotsman" .... wink! --144.250.xx.xx
No skilled tradesman (by JB [OR]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 8:25 AM
David, the difference is that so much of this problem is government and society created. All the hand out programs, entitlement mentality, the drug problems, and constant coddling and excusing away of the work ethic and mindset of the younger generations has helped to "create" this problem. It is no longer a free market issue. --24.20.xxx.xxx
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 8:27 AM
None of those are restrictions on the labor market. All markets are subject to various external influences that set the pricing. Those aren't excuses for whining about cost. --144.250.xx.xx
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 8:29 AM
Perhaps we then tax the profits Apple and Sony and Microsoft for creating all the digital devices that cause the "constant coddling and excusing away of the work ethic and mindset of the younger generations"? --144.250.xx.xx
No skilled tradesman (by JB [OR]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 8:42 AM
You cannot poke holes through every aspect of a free market tarp and then expect that tarp does not leak like a sieve. A little common sense here. --24.20.xxx.xxx
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 8:45 AM
None of those items you mentioned are restrictions to the labor market.
Minimum wage, trade licenses, trade unions, city permits, all of those are actual possible "holes " in the "tarp"
No skilled tradesman (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 8:45 AM
It's a shame the old system of apprenticeships has gone awry. They are out there, but are not marketed to this kid in high school as a viable option.
This Old House brought on apprentices in the past several seasons, and it was good see the old guys teaching the young ones the old tricks of their trade.
When I see a master carpenter at work, the math they have to do boggles my mind. --50.82.xxx.xx
No skilled tradesman (by busy [WI]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 9:23 AM
david, I wasn't talking about inheritances at all. And, as someone who spent many years as a "stay at Home mom, it Is sooo insulting that anyone implies I was a NON-working spouse. You try breastfeeding two three times a night,washing cloth diapers daily, running after active toddlers, making meals from scratch, patching clothes, sewing custom clothes for a child with special needs, cleaning the toilets, walking the dog and the babies in the stroller. and that was an easy day, LOL! OK, no, not all of that got done in one day. Nope, re reading that, that was a pretty typical day.
The kids that sit about that I see are sponging off of their parents couple I know with a son the same age as my daughter. Last I talked to them, their son, in his twenties, was still refusing to learn to drive a car. Or, as they put it, he wasn't wanting to learn to drive. My daughter , by contrast, was married, owns her own home, only $30k left on the mortgage, she is the primary breadwinner, though her spouse works and goes to school. There is something wrong with that other couple's parenting that they wopuldn't kick their kid into high gear. Even I went after my son's girlfriend in high school. She hadn't learned to drive yet,a s a senior in high school. I wasn't having it. I told her, if she was going to be with my son, she would need to learn to drive, as he couldn't be expected to run her everywhere, especially if they had kids. I wasn't mean, I was encouraging. Turns out my son is a very good teacher, he followed through, and taught her to drive. Thought they broke up, she still thanks me for giving her the nudge to drive. Last time I saw her, she was proud to say she was able to get a better job in another city, and is dating a fellow from that city. Drives on the highway even to go see him. She was proud!
Its not about blaming, are complaining about the excuses, for me. Its about a lack of holding people responsible, and pushing them to better themselves. Nobody benefits when people aren't learning simple daily life skills, like showing up to a job on time, paying rent on time, or making repairs to our rentals in a timely, workmanlike fashion.
And, NO, I am not against social safety nets at all. Very much helpful. But, there is the tipping point, where the individual gets lazy because it is hard to overcome. I saw that all the time in special ed. For instance, one young girl I worked with was not expected to be able to learn to walk independently. At three years old, she had not yet learned to crawl. a special , Very expensive wheelchair was ordered for her. Well, I don't give up easily. No, I wasn't a physical therapist. That's the person who just gave up on the kid and ordered the expensive wheelchair. This little kid was extremely food motivated (and already obese, 50 lbs at 3 years old, a whole other issue.) So, I put a single M and M on paper plates, about ten in a row, and helped this girl to low-fire crawl her way over to those treats, pushing against her feet. Daily. She would get mad and holler, and smack herself in the head. I would admonish her for hurting my friend (her) She was smart enough to be puzzled about that. As she strengthened, we moved to a standard crawl, thogh I had to support her belly from her obesity. You can guess, by the time that $20K chair arrived, I had her crawling independently and walking with assistance. Last I saw her, she was running around on a playground with the other fifth graders. Oh, and though still adorable and smart, she was no longer obese.
Its not just a 'throw more money at it, labor shortage solved' issue. Not that simple at all, David. People need to be mentored, encouraged. And not given up on. --70.92.xxx.xxx
No skilled tradesman (by Deanna [TX]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 9:50 AM
I think part of it has to do with the unpredictability.
You can be a plumber or an electrician or a carpenter for a big, corporate entity-- but for those who are working for themselves, not everyone is cut out to deal with the ebbs and flows of unpredictable work-- feast or famine. And if they get sick or hurt, often times, there's no income, and there's no paycheck-- unlike, say, an office job pushing paper. And with the kind of work they do, there's a greater chance of getting injured.
Predictability is nice. Steady income is nice-- not dependent on my health, or the weather, or whether other subs are behind-schedule, or the person who wants to hire me can't actually afford to pay me promptly, or whether my assistant is reliable, or whatever.
I do agree that there's a great lack of the skilled trades. But I think that the sort of people who have the personality/character necessary to succeed at it-- in contrast to the unskilled push-button-types Steve mentioned-- is generally going to be practical enough to eyeball all their opportunities available, and enter the field that seems to be most appealing. So unless someone has a burning desire to be a plumber, they might end up rationalizing their way into a different field-- "Yes, it doesn't pay as well, but at least I'm not up to my ankles in mud and sewage when it's 20* outside." --96.46.xxx.xx
No skilled tradesman (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 10:56 AM
In my area I can offer full price and the workers simply don't show up.
I am selling off several houses because I cannot get anyone to work on them - at any price.
The touch screen (iPhone) has been out 12 years now. People smarter than me have studied and have legit statistics on children who have grown up with touch screens. These children did not develop spacial and "physics" skills (like how to climb a tree, stack blocks, pour water into a container...) because games on touch screens don't spill or fall over.
Just read an article how the Baby Boomers are dying broke, nothing to pass along to their Millennial children partly because the Mills soaked them dry or did not allow them to sell the big home and downsize, etc.
Our culture has made it too easy to live at home, spend on tech and cars, AND go into debt for college, cars...
A friend operates a Handyman franchise. He charges $100 per hour to the client and is booked solid.
No skilled tradesman (by David [MI]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 11:11 AM
"In my area I can offer full price and the workers simply don't show up."
This is simply not true. If no one will work at that price, then by definition you are NOT offering "full" price. Your price is LOWER than the market wage.
"I am selling off several houses because I cannot get anyone to work on them - at any price."
This is also not true -- "at any price". You cannot get a worker to work for $1000 an hour?
No skilled tradesman (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2019 12:15 PM
David, you are assuming that PAYING more means you get more SKILLS. What we are all saying is that people are just not LEARNING THE SKILLS that we *want* to pay for. Just because I pay someone lots o' money to be a painter doesn't mean they can paint. Just because I pay someone big bucks to lay bricks doesn't mean he knows how to do it right.Hanging drywall seems to be a lost art. And PLUMBING. Wow some of the plumbing jobs we have inherited.
We hire people to do yard work and tree pruning and such. We pay them whatever they ask because we don't want to do it - but that doesn't mean they do it right because they don't.
Even getting people to come give you a quote for a job where they could NAME THEIR PRICE - they still don't show up! --50.82.xxx.xx
No skilled tradesman (by don [PA]) Posted on: Apr 25, 2019 3:45 PM
What drives me crazy is people that proclaim that the response to the problem of having a lot of people with a lot of debt for degrees that are not worth it is to have the taxpayers pay for college and give it away for free. Uh, a product is being produced (college degree) that people are turning away from because it is not worth the cost. The LAST thing that should be done is for the gov't to force the taxpayers to pay for that product that the marketplace is indicating is not worth the cost of production. --70.90.xx.xxx
No skilled tradesman (by Small potatoes [NY]) Posted on: Apr 25, 2019 8:29 PM
I'll make the distinction between the construction trades/ union work which ebbs and flows with the economy and skilled trades, hvac, plumber, electrician. In the latter, esp plumbing in the ne it was almost impossible to break into the field w/out being connected. I use a hvac guy who worked for acommercial firm and residential on the side. He struck out on his own full time and has had a hard time retaining by help. They learn enough and think they can start out on their own. That's if they shaped up enough to stay on the job.
Heard a community College president lecture the other day. The future is coding and the upcoming alpha generation will be coding right out of the womb.
In the wsj today Dimon from chase is saying capitalism must evolve to address the disparity in income or become obsolete. And also worries about political division and a corporate desire for meeting in the middle. --100.2.xx.xxx
No skilled tradesman (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Apr 26, 2019 6:31 AM
Yep. Our Pres in on it. He is asking companies to take trainees and train them and they have responded. The colleges are failing and turning out weak leftists so hopefully parents will pick up on that and try to guide their interested children toward a trade. How about you? Do you have any workers you could pay to go to school to learn electricity or carpentry Or plumbing? How about you taking a course yourself. --173.61.xxx.xx
No skilled tradesman (by Deanna [TX]) Posted on: Apr 26, 2019 7:28 AM
Around here, a lot of the trades still work on the apprentice system. You can't get into the guild unless you're allowed in by someone already there. There aren't schools here that you can go learn plumbing in the same way you can learn Spanish or Art History.
I did a quick online search for plumbing schools, in case it was just a Texas thing. The best I could find was Penn Foster Career School-- which invited me to join 13,000 of their graduates of 2016. --166.137.xxx.xxx
No skilled tradesman (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Apr 26, 2019 8:13 PM
I agree with David. when I decided I had to prioritize finding help and I started networking for that purpose I found a guy,older guy and I am paying him $25 hour which is pretty good for my market,he likes working for me because I pay him right away and give him a lot of latitude as far as how and when but he does a good job.My rents went up dramatically in my area but no one wanted to pay more but the workers want to do better also so pay more and treat them better and you will get guys.I think guys who have done the physical work before have an advantage because the workers know pretty quickly that you have really done it and that you aren't looking down on them.Like David said pay $1000 an hour and you will have guys lined up so somewhere between there and what you are paying now will get you what you need.I bet in many cases 25% more than you pay now will do it. --72.231.xxx.xxx
No skilled tradesman (by Small potatoes [NY]) Posted on: Apr 26, 2019 9:28 PM
Ken is spot on. Day guys and workers look at me digging in and humping it and they know I'm not soft so when I tell them to pull their weight they can't complain. Plus it helps to be fair and not jerk them around for pay. I've even driven one kid to my bank so he could cash the check, because banks by me don't help people, they make it hard.
Still not skilled labor at any price point till you call the plumber at hundred an hour. --99.203.xx.xx
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