Landlord profiling?

While responding to a tip that a tenant (who I had obtained a legal eviction judgement against) was following up on her promise to "trash the apartment as she was exiting," I was arrested for entering said apartment illegally and interfering with her right to an "orderly and peaceful conclusion to my involvement with her....."

Without going into all the additional details, including her utterly false claim that I assaulted her, I am now wondering if I have just cause to challenge and counteract the police, whom I will be meeting in court next week.

Equally important, have any of you comrades out there had anything like a similar profiling profiling experience and abuse?

Many thanks for any and all input!

Moe --173.48.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Matt [RI]) Posted on: Apr 14, 2019 7:28 PM
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Three things:Get the best lawyer you can afford, tell the truth and go forward if you dare! --173.48.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Apr 14, 2019 7:36 PM
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Wow, I think I'd like to hear more details. Sounds like she positioned you to get arrested and this is where one has to be careful with a tenant. There was nothing you could do going there to prevent anything. She entrapped you and probably put the threat out there to lay the trap.

I also think that tenants deliberately damaging property needs to be a criminal offense. That would make them think twice. --209.122.xx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by JB [OR]) Posted on: Apr 14, 2019 8:01 PM
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No matter how upset you are, you can't just enter the premises (except as an emergency only) without consent of the tenant. Why would you do that?

I agree that a good lawyer is likely warranted here. Best of luck! --24.20.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by mike [MA]) Posted on: Apr 14, 2019 8:06 PM
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Wow!!!! You hit a hot button with this one!

I have always felt we are not privy to the respect and protection that most everyone else is in this lousy State!!! --173.48.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Moe [MA]) Posted on: Apr 14, 2019 8:12 PM
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To JB,

It was an emergency!

For one thing, She had removed the batteries from the the thermostats,subjecting the entire 3 family and its occupants to the consequences of frozen pipes.

Moe --173.48.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Apr 14, 2019 8:16 PM
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Several times I've been accused of these types of things. All false. In court I've demonstrate to the judge the following:

1) I'm a person with some wealth and have to conduct myself accordingly. My liability insurance polices exclude coverage if I use unnecessary excessive force.

2) I have studied and masted "self defense", not offensive training.

3) I have with me a Taser Dart gun that will disable any attacker.

4) I have pepper spray and mace.

5) I am able to run away and use my cell phone to call for help.

6) I also I'm licensed to carry many different caliper guns ranging from 22 caliper to 45 ACP. With a single shot I can put anyone down if deemed necessary.

The person making the accusations at me never told the police or have any medical records of any injury. Not from a stun gun, pepper spray, Karate chop, punch or bullet wound. It's all made up. I am a professional landlord and this is someone who'd rather make up stories than get a job and pay rent.

Works most of the time....

--47.156.xx.xx

Landlord profiling? (by JB [OR]) Posted on: Apr 14, 2019 8:16 PM
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Then I would use that as your excuse to enter, YOU CONSIDERED IT AN EMERGENCY. Now all you need is for the judge to agree with you. --24.20.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Apr 14, 2019 8:22 PM
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This drives home to me the importance of screening particularly as I try to fill a vacancy I have now. Anyone who is the least bit shaky, I have to leave alone.

Moe, as you think back on this, is there anything that should have raised an alarm about this person? I regret your having been caught up like this but you gotta stay away from certain situations. --209.122.xx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Moe [RI]) Posted on: Apr 14, 2019 8:37 PM
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One more point I should have mentioned and asked about....

The individual who warned me about her intent to trash the place is another tenant in the property, who - because she fears retaliation - will not be testifying in court, So, can I force her to testify against her will if I decide to do so?

Moe

PS My current lawyer of long standing is kind of a wimp, and is trying to convince me to "move on."

Meanwhile, I am tempted to stand up against such moral nonsense! Will keep you posted.

. --173.48.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by JB [OR]) Posted on: Apr 14, 2019 8:41 PM
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I suspected that kind of dilemma with your witness. That really puts in a terrible position. Again, maybe this is where you need to find a mad dog attorney to fight your case. --24.20.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Mike [TX]) Posted on: Apr 14, 2019 8:48 PM
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You force the other one to testify when you know she doesn’t want to..... well then you might as well start advertising her apt for rent too. --73.166.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Live The Dream [AZ]) Posted on: Apr 14, 2019 9:06 PM
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Oh brother. This is a big one. Pull out all stops. First are you charged with a felony or misdemeanor?

Second, too late for you but for everyone else - you MUST wear a body cam when interacting with crazy or dangerous tenants. It sucks as most if the time I feel like an idiot with cameras everywhere. But if it saves my a$$ who cares.

You need to ask who the top criminal lawyer in your area is, and then get the second best one to back up thd first one.

As for the witness, she can be compelled to testify and face charges if she lies. I'd boot her asap too just for not being loyal.

Finally Robert J, are you one of the 30 people in LA grandfathered with a ccw permit? There are zero issued in the city or county to my knowledge. I thought in CA they were limited to three guns on the license. And a taser won't stop a lot of people, they are worthless for most civilian defense. Police are trained to (usually) only deploy them if there is armed backup and for compliance not defense, and cops are supposed to apprehend criminals, civilians have different rules of engagement.

--47.216.xx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Lana [IN]) Posted on: Apr 14, 2019 9:15 PM
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I don't think you were profiled, you were set up. I suspect the tenant who reported her was in on it. If doing an "emergency entry" you should have had a witness with you knowing you were entering into a bad situation.

This time of year the temps do not stay below freezing, so I don't heat open units at all. If it happened in December through February then yes a unit might freeze. My hubby entered a unit emergently once during the pay or quit notice time for a potentially frozen unit(it was) and an abandoned animal, but they were not there.

You need a good attorney, because it looks like you let your emotions take over. I would be very mild mannered in court and hope she loses it. --216.23.xxx.xx

Landlord profiling? (by Live The Dream [AZ]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 12:17 AM
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I was wrong. There are 30 gun permits currently in LA city, and they are canceling those. LA county has 220 with a population of 10 million, of which only 50-60 are issued to regular citizens, the rest to judges, politicians, etc. If my former FBI agent buddy can't get one in LA (he had to move to Orange County) I doubt they are giving them to landlords. But whatever.

www.dailybulletin.com/2016/10/07/why-dont-la-county-police-chiefs-want-to-handle-concealed-carry-gun-permits/

- --47.216.xx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Steve [MA]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 3:55 AM
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Moe, when did this happen? Was this in MA or RI?

Something doesn't smell right to me. Unless this happened on one of last winter's super cold days in a building that has crappy insulation, drafty siding & poor windows, not running the heat in just 1 unit of a triple decker shouldn't cause a freeze up in the entire building or even in her unit.

Is the heating system in the basement or in the unit? If this is like most of the triples in our area, you could have just gone to the basement & over ridden her Tstat to make her heat work.

As others have suggested it's time for you to hire a lawyer experienced in criminal law who knows how to make this go away with the least amount of collateral damage.

I think you are now realizing that you acted improperly & are about to have a very expensive lessen in LL / Tenant rights & responsibilities.

--96.237.xx.xx

Landlord profiling? (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 4:29 AM
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Live the dream,carry on with your day,as you know we get these stories almost daily --72.231.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 5:22 AM
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Your lawer says...move on... is that possible to just deal with this charge. And avoid it escalating into defending yourself? Seems like its a time to evaluate Do You want to be right or smart? --99.203.xx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 5:22 AM
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Landlord profiling? (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 7:03 AM
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Cash talks. Offer her $1,000 to sign a paper that she will not press any charges, that you did nothing wrong, and go away.

A "top defense lawyer" will charge you $500/hour...and this case is gonna take many hours.

Be right or be less poor? --173.20.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 7:15 AM
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Your in deep do do. Yes I got arrested by a tenant but I was innocent. Judge didn't care........ 3 days in REAL jail with orange jumpsuit and 8K later found innocent. Tenant got 1 year suspended sentence for false arrest. My arrest was for storing the tenants stuff she PUT BACK INTO A HOUSE SHE WAS EVICTED FROM. She broke into the house to put her stuff back in.

Anyway can't stress enough -- you're in trouble unless you come up with a reason -- not a TIP-- a real reason why U went in there? You committed B&E and I'll tell you the truth there's no way your gonna lie about it-- these judges aren't idiots as many have portrayed them here. Get an atty that handles criminal matters. Would be nice to see the exact charges???

LL's out there-- you can not go into someone else's property like the old days unless your uncle is the judge. These courts are just aching to make examples of LL's for the "crowd".

--99.103.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by JKJ [MA]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 7:29 AM
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I think Steve brought up some very good points....even if it was below freezing outside why would the whole building freeze up? As far as “making the witness testify” good luck. Many, many district attorneys have tried forcing witnesses to testify with threats of possible charges and failed. I realize that “that’s the law” but come on if judges and DA’s locked up everybody that failed to testify or lied in court there would be no place to put them all. It happens constantly in court. I don’t know all the facts, but to me it sounds like you were set up and your temper and emotions got the best of you. When you find yourself in a hole stop digging. --174.199.xx.xx

Landlord profiling? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 7:33 AM
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MYOB,

I would like to assume Moe had a Writ of Possession if he had completed a legal eviction. With a Writ of Poss,.. what is the issue here?

Without a Writ of Poss. I can see some real problems here. I would like to hear more details of this case, because something similar happened to me about 5 years ago.

So, you have worn the orange jumpsuit for 3 days? --68.63.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by JKJ [MA]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 7:51 AM
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1 other point I’d like to make, as Plenty says, “you can’t just enter an apartment, this isn’t the old days” RobertJ even you should learn from this, especially with your stories. You’ll end up dead or in jail. Assuming it’s factual someone someday is gonna be stronger, faster, smarter, or a better shot. And even if you think you can out gun or karate chop a perp the laws these days don’t like vigilante’s. YOUR ASKING FOR TROUBLE. We as landlords cannot just enter an apartment period, Unless it’s a true verifiable emergency, (think fire and flood) A tip is just that, a tip. It’s not fact and as you very well may find out, it never happened if YOU can’t prove it, then even if you can prove it, ITS JUST A TIP. That’s why law enforcement doesn’t kick down the door of a house when they get a tip, they investigate so they have actually evidence as you should have. I’m sorry my friend, I think your in trouble here and need as good a lawyer you can afford. I don’t know what your charges are, but felonies are like herpies, they keep popping up at the worst times and you can’t get rid of them. --174.199.xx.xx

Landlord profiling? (by JKJ [MA]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 8:15 AM
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1 thing I forgot, Moe, did this tenant in fact cause any damages or were the batteries out of the thermostats (that you have proof of at the time you entered) also RobertJ, I have a concealed carry permit and own a Sig 40 cal. I would never put myself in a position where I would need to use it on a tenant. By that I mean I would never go looking for a fight because I have a gun or I was a US Marine and think I will be able to defend myself, but because as I said someone is always stronger, faster, or smarter. 1 day you’ll lose, either your life, the fight, or the legal action brought against you. I’m not saying this to be a jerk or pick on you, it’s just the way it is in this day in age. food for thought Robert. In the mean time be safe. --71.248.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Moe [RI]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 8:25 AM
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First,thank you for the many responses.

Secondly this awful "incident" happened during an extremely cold week in late February.

Moe

--173.48.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Moe [RI]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 8:25 AM
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First,thank you for the many responses.

Secondly this awful "incident" happened during an extremely cold week in late February.

Moe

--173.48.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Moe [RI]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 8:25 AM
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First,thank you for the many responses.

Secondly this awful "incident" happened during an extremely cold week in late February.

Moe

--173.48.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 8:31 AM
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Roy you are misreading what he had. First off he said legal eviction judgment--? what the heck is that. Those are 2 different actions. Even if he had the writ of Possession-- LL's don't execute Writs--ONLY THE SHERIFF DOES. He has nothing. The Sheriff opens the door with the writ.

The issue is he tried doing a self help LOOKEE see inside the unit with some BS tip from WHO?

LL's learn a lesson here-- please -- the net is giving tenants more and more info. This person who entered -- if any type of assault is proven-- or BELIEVED -- is facing jail time.

Roy yes the orange jump suit and it was one size to small. My roomie had just been released from Reidsville prison the week before after serving 30 years for murder. Myself and one other white guy in our group of 60.

Here's a good one-- while standing in line waiting to re-enter the prison pod-- one of the inmates stole some sandwiches from the delivery cart. He got a beat down from the jailer with a blackjack the jailer had told us he would use if there was any problems. We had no sheets for the mattress-- it was cold as can be in the jail-- so the inmates sliced open (took the gray tape off the mattress and climbed inside to keep warn.

Fellow LL's you have no idea what goes on in these prisons. I told the other white prisoner to stay the heck away from me.

I will say this-- in about 8 hours I figured out where all the drugs where coming from--- yet jailers are there 7 days a week 8 hrs a day. I was a novice and saw it. --99.103.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Doogie [KS]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 8:33 AM
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If the lawyer is saying move on, I would think a serious cost versus benefit analysis would need to be done. What is the cheapest route you can take that will keep charges off your record? It might be lawyering up and going to court. Or, it might be striking a deal with the prosecutor, paying a fine and moving on. Would you rather be right or rich? Sometimes (as hard as it is) removing emotions and going down the path of least resistance. I also believe karma will catch up to everyone at some point. Sometimes you get to witness it, but most times you don't. --72.209.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 8:35 AM
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Lessons for us all in this. If the relationship goes sour , give the opposition party more space. Use off-duty sheriff for hire if you have to. Furnace turned off? Go run some oil-filled space heaters to the other tenants, so their units stay warm enough. Scratch that. Have the off-duty sheriff for hire drop off oil-filled space heaters, landlord, stay away, or at least bring that off-duty sheriff with you. As soon as adversarial tenant is out, have HVAC tech run the third wire and replace thermostat so the furnace operates off of furnace electricity, not battery power.

Body cam is a good idea as well, but if I had to get into a unit , me? I would bring a big, disinterested third party with some legal knowledge, like the off duty sheriff/ police officer. And, even though we had snow this weekend in the middle part of country, furnace off? I got space heaters for the other tenants. If the pipes didn’t burst through this past winter’s cold spell, probably weren’t going to now.

Way back when RaynPa asked for New Year’s predictions, I said somebody would step on snek. Oh, boy! Stepped on snake real good!!

More, I suggest you CALMLY find an attorney in criminal law, since you have been charged, and follow that attorney’s advice. The real estate attorney or family law attorney should know someone to recommend.

Tenants who have been evicted or given Notice to Vacate should been handled like snakes. Very carefully. If at all. Usually by someone else, for most of us. More, practice letting things roll off of your back. My suspicion is someone with a calm demeanor, not so much emotion would have had less retaliation mindset from a departing tenant.

Just my two cent. --70.92.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Carley [RI]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 8:40 AM
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This amazing story points up the great need for landlords in the loopy Notheast and Farwest to stand up and fight for our own human rigts!!!! --173.48.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 9:09 AM
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Oops, missed the part about this occurring in February. Still, the ouch! Lesson for us all, go in with a safety buddy, like the off-duty cop.

Sorry this happened to you, Moe. Really stinks. --70.92.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 9:28 AM
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A top defense lawyer will probably cost you more than $500 per hour. But he/she will be worth it.

If you entered the apartment illegally, then you will be found guilty. While the punishment for this first-time offense may not be serious, it will have repercussions for the future: At minimum it will be on your record, and the next tenant who wants to challenge you caan use it.

You need to learn the law about renting property and pay attention to your responsibilities. Although the property belongs to you, you cannot enter rented property except for reasons specified by your state law. Exceptions are not an excuse and you must take this matter seriously.

" because she fears retaliation - will not be testifying in court, So, can I force her to testify against her will if I decide to do so? ".

Yes, you can subpoena her to appear and testify, but stop and think: what will she say? And how will she respond when cross-examined by the prosecutor? Good advice is to NEVER bring a witness when you are not certain that her testimony will help you.

--47.139.xx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 9:34 AM
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Just get one of the other tenant to witness that the heat was off but how did she get to all three thermostats? One of my departing tenants, who moved because she changed jobs was also annoyed at me for not helping her turn the garage into a gym. She called the police when I went into the common hallway to put up a chart required by the water company to be displayed. The cop was smart enough to see that it was a common hallway and knew that the chart was required so he gave HER a warning according to my upstairs tenant who heard the whole thing. Just go to court with evidence and witness and you will be fine. --173.61.xxx.xx

Landlord profiling? (by J [FL]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 9:42 AM
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"A top defense lawyer will probably cost you more than $500 per hour. But he/she will be worth it."

Agree, it would be ideal to get this dropped or go to a jury, since it will look very bad to have a conviction for this as an LL. It seems like a good lawyer might be able to do that since this is not a typical burglary case. Or whatever Moe was charged with, since he didn't say.

--72.188.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Live The Dream [AZ]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 10:12 AM
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STILL don't know - was this a FELONY or misdemeanor? I hold too many expensive licenses and permits to risk losing my gun and voting rights because of some punk tenant.

Moving on even with a misdemeanor on your record is a lifelong blight, I would fight tooth and nail. --47.216.xx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by dee [AZ]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 10:57 AM
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First I would of called the police regarding a reported tenant damaging your home due to an eviction, no way would I go it alone especially knowing you just evicted her. I had that experience once with a two neighboring tenant females and that taught me a big lesson. Don't go it alone. I even refuse to do move out inspections with tenants because they try to play games on you. This absolutely constituted an emergency and I agree with the others that these two tenants together set you up to retaliate the eviction because of a report by a neighboring tenant that the evicted tenant was distorying your property...that is definitely an emergency and you responded just as they hoped you would, just you should of contacted the police for assistance given the prevailing tenant situation. As far as you ilegally entering, that depends on how you entered. if she let you in or you shoved your way in pushing her etc. can be problematic, but if you can prove by forcing the other tenant to state she contacted you and set things in motion the judge might see you as the victim in the situation and dismiss any charges against you. The fact the tenant was recently evicted will give the judge good reason to distrust the motives of the tenant(s). If you don't have pending criminal charges against you, then all you can do is let her move and assess what ever damages she did and take her to court and get a judgement. But if you have to hire an attorney in this matter, I hope you use a legally recognized rental agreement that would include the prevailing party pays the others attorney fees. Remember you are operating a business no matter what the IRS says and the courts you to conduct yourself in a professional and law abiding manner. Invest in a Landlord book that gives you a lot of useful information so you are better prepared to handle bad tenants. I'm guessing you didn't do a thorough background check prior to renting to her either, as tenants like this usually have a history of this behavior and seek out private landlord rentals because they will not pay to get a bad rental background report and denied so you are the target for bad tenants. I like to hire a RE company to find my tenants and although I have to pay them a months rent fee, I get much better quality tenants for years to come. --72.208.xxx.xx

Landlord profiling? (by dee [AZ]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 11:12 AM
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I have to disagree with a couple things said here, you being told someone is destroying your property is an emergency for you to go check it out without notice but you should not of gone alone and or let your emotions get carried away and get into an altercation either. Your police dept is there for stuff like this. If you had a robbery in progress, you would call the police right? You did not really elaborate on how you entered the property, so without the details it is unclear why the police arrested you and anything advice on that part is pure speculation then. --72.208.xxx.xx

Landlord profiling? (by JB [OR]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 11:19 AM
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My guess is that if he had asked the police to intervene on his behalf they would have simply told him it was a civil matter and that they would not get involved at that time. --24.20.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Dee [AZ]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 11:31 AM
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Roy has good point, if she was evicted through the court system then she should of been escorted from the premises immediately, at least in my state, by the police and possession returned to you and you then should change the locks on the spot. Then her re- entering again would be B&E and she could be arrested. Sounds like you started but didn't complete the legal process??? But if you have the certified letters giving her proper notice to vacate or be evicted by certified mail or methods prescribed by our state laws then you would have a good probable defense of the retaliation set up. Judges are not stupid and some are landlords too. --72.208.xxx.xx

Landlord profiling? (by Dee [AZ]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 11:32 AM
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Landlord profiling? (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 12:38 PM
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I think some-- if not most here don't know the process of eviction. She was still in the property--- so no Writ had executed-- it may have been issued but no sheriff set out. Writ served by sheriff includes setting out tenants belongs and tenant being told-- do not re-enter because YOU will be trespassing. So clearly she was not trespassing because SHE would have been the one arrested.

LL's cross the line all the time-- thinking this and that is OK to do because "it seems like it should be". That clearly doesn't work.

Carely RI-- this is just not in the NE or NW part of the country -- once you get into court-- you have not a thing you can say that will interrupt or interfere with the judge. Go ahead and try-- you'll have the sheriff on you like white on rice. --99.103.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 12:45 PM
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Moe says that he had "obtained a legal eviction judgement against" the tenant. Evidently, the matter had not yet proceeded to actual restoration of possession by law enforcement on judge's order.

Moe says that he was "responding to a tip that a tenant ... was following up on her promise to "trash the apartment as she was exiting,", and that "The individual who warned me about her INTENT to trash the place is another tenant in the property". Moe cites that she "removed the batteries from the the thermostats" as an emergency.

This is NOT an emergency, and thats why Moe was arrested and spent a few days in jail.

A quick look at Massachusetts General Laws. Chapter 186, section 15B shows that MA laws are poorly written by today's standards.

Advice from a MA attorney says that:

"Your landlord must have your permission to enter. If you do not give your landlord permission to enter, the landlord can enter if there are terms of your lease or written tenancy agreement which are legal and give the landlord permission to enter or your landlord has a court order."

There is no mention in that statute about notice.

So on first glance, it appears to me that Noe may inded have been trespassing, tenant was within her rights to call Police and Moe was arrested on a charge resembling trespassing, which it seems that he was doing.

--47.139.xx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Dee [AZ]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 1:12 PM
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1) He states he has a legal court ordered bonified eviction. 2) The state laws of MA will govern whether she can only be removed by a Sherriff as some states don't mandate this. 3) He said she made claims of assault; might be why he was arrested not for illegal entry. 4) The threat of his property being destroyed by what ever means is an "emergency" and could of provoked the sequence of events which took place and defensible in court 5) Why would the police arrest him for assault was there any proof of it? Just too much info missing here. I have been before the courts with tenants before and assaulted by one too. I can tell you I have never lost a court case either but I had the documents and pictures for the Judge and I make sure I'm always following proper procedures. Judges are not just pro tenants that's BS, they stick with the facts and events surrounding the incident (not he said she said), tenant/landlord cases are something they see a lot in their court rooms and will make responsible judgements based on what evidence they are given. So give him everything you can to win your case and remember to be very respectful to the judge! --72.208.xxx.xx

Landlord profiling? (by Dee [AZ]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 1:12 PM
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Landlord profiling? (by JB [OR]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 1:20 PM
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Dee, you sure make a lot of unsubstantiated assumptions. And the statement that judges base their decisions purely on the facts is often utterly false. I have seen them completely ignore evidence that would and should have been used against tenants in plenty of cases. --24.20.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 1:29 PM
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Moe states that he has a JUDGEMENT but he doesn't state that he had an eviction. Evidently the state laws of MA have been applied by the judge and found sufficient to warrant award of eviction, but the eviction hasn't taken place. So the tenant at the time of Moe's entry was still legally in possession of the rental property.

Moe states that he was arrested for "entering said apartment illegally" and for 'interfering with her right to an "orderly and peaceful conclusion to my involvement with her....."'.

MA statute does not provide for landlord entry in case of emergency, as most more modern legal systems do. If it did, then the "tip" given to him would not have been sufficient to authorize entry for emergency. If WOULD have been sufficient to warrant entry to inspect for damage, which MA statute DOES authorize, but I don't know what MA does about requiring notice.

We haven't been told that the arrest was for assault.

--47.139.xx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Dee [AZ]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 1:51 PM
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There was an established unknown eminent threat to his property when another tenant called and informed him what was taking place that set this in motion. He states "While responding to a tip form another tenant that a (evicted) tenant WAS following up on her promise to "trash the apartment as she was exiting (who I had obtained a legal eviction judgement against)" I was arrested for entering said apartment illegally and interfering with her right to an "orderly and peaceful conclusion to my involvement with her....This scenario stinks of a setup by a disgruntled tenant in retaliation of her eviction. If he just went over to the apartment to hassle her to get out because he had an eviction and didn't follow the court order on how she was to be evicted from the premises then he's got problems. Why police officers made the call to arrest him is curious rather then telling him to just leave given the circumstances. Well a judge with ultimately make the final decision based on the facts. He probably should get an attorney for the upcoming hearing and then subpoena the another tenant to testify her part that set this in motion and maybe part of a conspired plan to cause this man a lot of harm. I can't believe they arrested him on this charge alone! --72.208.xxx.xx

Landlord profiling? (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 2:08 PM
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1. MA law [ Massachusetts General Laws. Chapter 186, section 15B ] DOES NOT PROVIDE for landlord entry in case of emergency. CA law does. I don't know about AZ law, but most states do. MA DOES NOT. MA law DOES MOT MAKE PROVISION for a threat to the property, known or unknown, imminent or not.

2. setup by a disgruntled tenant or not, it appears that MOE violated the law in a manner that resulted in incarceration by Police. He now faces the same charges in court.

3. If, for example, Police FOUND Moe inside of tenant's apartment without tenant's consent, then that may have been enough to arrest and charge Moe with "illegal entry".

4. A judge will make the decision, but he is supposed to make them in accordance with the law, and the law seems to support the view that Moe is guilty. He seems to have violated tenant's right to quiet enjoyment of the property and he failed to respect that.

I would recommend that Moe get a GOOD attorney and FOLLOW HIS ADVICE.

I believe that the Police arrested him on a charge like this. Moe should have known better. There is an important issue to society here.

--47.139.xx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Dee [AZ]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 2:25 PM
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I found this information of landlord's right of entry without notice (emergency) in MA:

"While housing courts have generally required landlords to give tenants at least 24 hours' notice before entering the tenant's apartment (unless there is an emergency, such as a water leak into another apartment), there are times when 24 hours is not enough notice".

So MA does have provisions in place! We have these same laws in AZ. I remember I had a tenant move out without any notice. I just happened to drive by and noticed the side gate was down and when I looked around found the place vacant. I found the back door unlocked and a couple of boxes on the counter so I called the police because my place was left unsecure to be vandalized, he came out and looked at me like I was an idiot and told me to do what I needed to and left when I was concerned about illegal entry too. So I locked up and left her a note to return the keys but never heard from her even though you could see she had been there (left the door wide open this time) so I still followed the rules and processed an abandonment (posting and mailing by certified mail) which held me up for another ten days before I could legally enter by law so the tenant couldn't pull "I was still living there" BS. I later got a judgment for lost rents.

Also, I read MA courts uphold the written lease agreement on terms of LL entry too. So make sure you have a good attorney written rental agreement to conform with your state laws and get as much language as possible you are allowed to protect yourself. --72.208.xxx.xx

Landlord profiling? (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 2:44 PM
Message:

" So MA does have provisions in place! "

Do they? What is thie "information"?

Massachusetts General Laws. Chapter 186, section 15B says :

Section 15B. (1) (a) No lease relating to residential real property shall contain a provision that a lessor may, except to inspect the premises, to make repairs thereto or to show the same to a prospective tenant, purchaser, mortgagee or its agents, enter the premises before the termination date of such lease. A lessor may, however, enter such premises:

(i) in accordance with a court order;

(ii) if the premises appear to have been abandoned by the lessee; or

(iii) to inspect, within the last thirty days of the tenancy or after either party has given notice to the other of intention to terminate the tenancy, the premises for the purpose of determining the amount of damage, if any, to the premises which would be cause for deduction from any security deposit held by the lessor pursuant to this section.

As you can see, MA law is not written with the clarity that we are accustomed to in CA.

Evidently, the agreement between the parties controls, except that agreement to enter is restricted to inspection, repairs or showings. There is no provision in this law for notice. But since MA is not a jungle, they authorities seem to have created some process to make it work. But the authorization DOES NOT INCLUDE provision to enter for emergency. CA law, on the other hand, is explicit.

The moral of the story is that reading "information" is not a wise idea. Everything thats on the internet is not the right guide. AZ usually copies CA, but their law does not apply in MA.

--47.139.xx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Dee [AZ]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 2:59 PM
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Well I guess an emergency could fall under the language "Repairs/Damages". Apparently this is not a one unit building either so she could do things effecting other tenants too. I think you can see the gray area the statue leaves and even provides room for the rental agreement to include terms of entry of it's own too seems very losely stated and open to interpretation. Check out where I got my info from MassLegalHelp. --72.208.xxx.xx

Landlord profiling? (by J [FL]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 3:50 PM
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"Moving on even with a misdemeanor on your record is a lifelong blight, I would fight tooth and nail."

I think it totally depends on the person's life situation. For a young person trying to start a corporate career, it could be a big problem. For an older person who's already financially set it might not have much impact at all. --72.188.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 5:29 PM
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Definitely a cautionary tale. For me, this situation emphasizes that the bright line in the sand begins with screening. Bad tenants simply have to be avoided and if they slip through, no stone can be left unturned to get them out legally.

myob, you've shared that story more than once and that's also a reminder that you really can't do favors or in any way get caught up in the problems these tenants create for themselves. --209.122.xx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Dee [AZ]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 5:39 PM
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I agree, I use a RE agent to advertise, find and screen a a potential tenant because I was only get the traffic that looks for owners to deal with because the majority never screen or can do it properly. I used to be able to use the LA Apartment Assoc membership to do my screening after they filled out the extensive app form I got from them. But that pretty much doesn't exist anymore and I just didn't have the tools I used to. Up side the cost is a good investment because I don't have the problems I used to and it's tax deductible. Just need to find a good RE to work with. --72.208.xxx.xx

Landlord profiling? (by Dee [AZ]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 5:39 PM
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Landlord profiling? (by Live The Dream [AZ]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 6:20 PM
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To J FL - Yes for some a misdemeanor wouldn't matter. But my spouse is a computer scientist - goodbye to any govt contracts requiring a security clearance. In my case I hold numerous firearm related licenses as an instructor for security and law enforcement as well as civilians, plus 4 ccw permits. Although I am "retired" if I want to teach occasionally I need those. A misdemeanor would instantly put ALL my credentials into suspension, and I could kiss off my LE examiner certification.

It took me years and thousands of dollars to get here. So yes, even though I joke about my shovel and mine shaft, I am very careful not to run afoul of the law and if I got railroaded on something I would persue remedy at (nearly) any cost.

--47.216.xx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Dee [AZ]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2019 8:27 PM
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Wow didn't realize he was in that kind of trouble. If the facts are as presented here, I would hire an attorney ASAP before the initial hearing date and see if he can get the charges dismissed. I do believe from the info presented there was an orchestrated effort to cause the landlord personal harm in retaliation of the eviction. To plan to provoke him into such action makes her even more coupable the he is. I know of another case where although the person committed a crime, the victim was found quilty in civil court case as they provoked the person into it. Sounds like she is pretty savvy in this area and this isn't her first rodeo either. This is a much lesser incident then that one was and hopefully when he gets it demised I would ask for an attorney fees judgment against her and maybe some pain and suffering since he sent jail too. I also would evict the other tenant for her involvement. I had two women gang up on me once, one put her hands on me but I walked away and told her I was calling the police so she got to the phone before me and called the police and lied I was harassing her so the police told me to leave her alone. I contacted my husband and he stayed with me to conduct business and show a vacant unit. I waited until their lease was up and got rid of both of them but not before we faced off in court one last time when they filed cases against me but I counter sued and won both! I learned a lot from that horrible experience as a young landlord believe me. I really feel for this landlord and I hope he comes out on top but maybe he should hire a property management company to deal with the tenants in his apartment building in the future not worth the hassle and health problems and tenants don't give property managers the same grief. --72.208.xxx.xx

Landlord profiling? (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Apr 16, 2019 4:02 AM
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Dee U really feel bad for the LL? REALLY? He broke into someones apartment/home on a false pretext. Now he's got the assault charge and I think we all know -- He's Lying about the "whatever" reason he went in there for.

Records fact: once your arrested you have a record-- innocent or guilty it will now show up. This is the same as civil action- even if you eventually win there's a court record.

We once had a judgment, under appeal, eventually won our case-- but every time we applied for credit we had to explain the judgement-- even though we won. The arrest here is the same-- it will follow you.

LL's don't take the law seriously enough. In our minds we explain every action away. The judge will tell you in court just before sentencing-- what part of the law should the court follow? the part for the LL or just the part for the Tenant? --99.103.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Travis [OK]) Posted on: Apr 16, 2019 6:09 AM
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“(iii) to inspect, within the last thirty days of the tenancy or after either party has given notice to the other of intention to terminate the tenancy, the premises for the purpose of determining the amount of damage, if any, to the premises which would be cause for deduction from any security deposit held by the lessor pursuant to this section.”

Super broad language, but I could see where Moe’s action of entering the property would be covered under this statute. In my mind at least, the judge won’t feel as sorry for you about water damage from lack of functioning thermostats as they might if it was smoke detectors. Anyway the tip could have been taking batteries out of thermostats and other devices? I’m not a judge of course, but I’d be more forgiving if your actions were motivated to protect the safety of the other occupants, rather than the structure.

Sorry you are going through this. --174.236.x.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by CJ [MO]) Posted on: Apr 16, 2019 7:34 AM
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Is 24 hour notice to enter ok? text notice ok? --97.91.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by J [FL]) Posted on: Apr 16, 2019 8:05 AM
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"Records fact: once your arrested you have a record-- innocent or guilty it will now show up. This is the same as civil action- even if you eventually win there's a court record."

If you are eligible to get it sealed or expunged it should not show up. The courts or police may still be able to view it but not anyone else.

--72.188.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Apr 16, 2019 2:37 PM
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sure and another 6K.

Love the "should not" show up tooooo!!!! --99.103.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Dee [AZ]) Posted on: Apr 16, 2019 3:44 PM
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myob, you sound just like a tenant talking because your statement is exaggerated based on assumption to say the least. Nothing was said here that said he "broke in forcefully" or "lied to the police" about the circumstances. He states he entered the apartment just not sure how. He could of knocked on the door and when she went to call the police he went into the apartment He will have his day in court obviously and the facts presented will rule the judges decision. From what was stated here, it appears there was a coordinated effort to provoke the landlord into reacting and entrap him into a situation whereby they could call the police on him in retaliation for the eviction. The judge will be able to see through this as will the other tenant have to testify to her part in it too. My experience is Judges are very intuitive and will get to the bottom of this matter. Major point is, he did not go over there without first being threatened to do damage to his property in retaliation to the eviction along with the involvement of ther second co-tenant who contacted him to provoke a response telling him his property was being destroyed. This being true should dismiss the case against the landlord because this was a planned attack on the LL who really is the victim in this scenario and she should be charged with making a false report to the police and damages to the landlord. --72.208.xxx.xx

Landlord profiling? (by Dee [AZ]) Posted on: Apr 16, 2019 4:07 PM
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Curious, is everyone here getting a lot of email "responses" in the inboxes? I got 7 emails all at once seriously 3:44 pm when there was only two or three new responses on the forum for this post? I have received even more at other times filling my inbox with huge emails from this site! There is a possible system clich going on and it's very annoying to deal with. --72.208.xxx.xx

Landlord profiling? (by J [FL]) Posted on: Apr 16, 2019 6:27 PM
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"sure and another 6K.

Love the "should not" show up tooooo!!!!"

I'm not sure where you're getting your information from. That's one of the main reasons people do those Diversion programs like the Drug Court. It is expunged (at least where I live) and removed from the public records if you complete those programs. --72.188.xxx.xxx

Landlord profiling? (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Apr 17, 2019 7:24 AM
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Dee, you must have given your email address in the box below the reply box to get email responses. This thread is up to almost 70 responses, so you should have received about 70 emails! I don’t ever put an email in that box. Nothing on a forum is that life or death that i’d Want an email, when I can just check the forum itself.

Also, when posting a reply, when you hit the SUBMIT button, watch for a thin blue line to appear under Mr.Landlord, at the top of your screen. Give it a couple of seconds. If there is any portion of the thin blue line, your post has been submitted. That will help cut down on multiple submissions of same reply, --70.92.xxx.xxx

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