Fair Housing testers (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Mar 27, 2019 11:44 AM|
Fair Housing testers (by David [MI]) Mar 27, 2019 11:53 AM
Fair Housing testers (by Busy [WI]) Mar 27, 2019 12:01 PM
Fair Housing testers (by Busy [WI]) Mar 27, 2019 12:02 PM
Fair Housing testers (by WI House [WI]) Mar 27, 2019 12:17 PM
Fair Housing testers (by cjl [NY]) Mar 27, 2019 12:19 PM
Fair Housing testers (by WI House [WI]) Mar 27, 2019 12:21 PM
Fair Housing testers (by Busy [WI]) Mar 27, 2019 12:22 PM
Fair Housing testers (by S i d [MO]) Mar 27, 2019 12:28 PM
Fair Housing testers (by Busy [WI]) Mar 27, 2019 12:32 PM
Fair Housing testers (by WMH [NC]) Mar 27, 2019 12:42 PM
Fair Housing testers (by NE [PA]) Mar 27, 2019 12:47 PM
Fair Housing testers (by Ken [NY]) Mar 27, 2019 12:47 PM
Fair Housing testers (by John... [MI]) Mar 27, 2019 12:58 PM
Fair Housing testers (by John... [MI]) Mar 27, 2019 12:59 PM
Fair Housing testers (by John... [MI]) Mar 27, 2019 1:10 PM
Fair Housing testers (by myob [GA]) Mar 27, 2019 1:11 PM
Fair Housing testers (by WMH [NC]) Mar 27, 2019 1:20 PM
Fair Housing testers (by JKJ [MA]) Mar 27, 2019 1:28 PM
Fair Housing testers (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Mar 27, 2019 2:04 PM
Fair Housing testers (by myob [GA]) Mar 27, 2019 2:10 PM
Fair Housing testers (by WI House [WI]) Mar 27, 2019 2:21 PM
Fair Housing testers (by WI House [WI]) Mar 27, 2019 2:28 PM
Fair Housing testers (by WMH [NC]) Mar 27, 2019 2:33 PM
Fair Housing testers (by 6x6 [TN]) Mar 27, 2019 2:42 PM
Fair Housing testers (by Robert J [CA]) Mar 27, 2019 2:44 PM
Fair Housing testers (by Busy [WI]) Mar 27, 2019 2:53 PM
Fair Housing testers (by J [FL]) Mar 27, 2019 4:55 PM
Fair Housing testers (by J [FL]) Mar 27, 2019 5:12 PM
Fair Housing testers (by WI House [WI]) Mar 27, 2019 6:35 PM
Fair Housing testers (by Busy [WI]) Mar 27, 2019 6:40 PM
Fair Housing testers (by Busy [WI]) Mar 27, 2019 6:46 PM
Fair Housing testers (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Mar 27, 2019 7:35 PM
Fair Housing testers (by Nellie [ME]) Mar 27, 2019 7:47 PM
Fair Housing testers (by John... [MI]) Mar 28, 2019 7:02 AM
Fair Housing testers (by John... [MI]) Mar 28, 2019 7:04 AM
Fair Housing testers (by Wilma [PA]) Mar 28, 2019 4:50 PM
Fair Housing testers (by Dan [NY]) Mar 29, 2019 4:15 AM
Fair Housing testers (by Libi [NY]) Mar 29, 2019 8:01 PM
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Fair Housing testers (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 11:44 AM
Sometimes when I memtion this some LLs think Iím exaggerating. Hereís proof itís real.
The Fair Housing Center of Central Indiana just released its 2018 Annual Report.
-hiring testers to act as prospects
-conducted 315 fair housing TESTS
-76% of LLs tested in Caucasian areas lied to African-American prospects about availability, etc to discriminate against them. A Caucasian tester was sent to the same location, same day and told different info.
-780 client intakes resulted in 237 allegations
-one multi fam owner was fined $219,747.75, triggered by a VERBAL comment made by the owner/manager.
[shut your yapper!]
Fair Housing testers (by David [MI]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 11:53 AM
"780 client intakes resulted in 237 allegations" what does this mean "client intakes"? --144.250.xx.xx
Fair Housing testers (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 12:01 PM
Definitely! Let them talk, not me.
One advantage of renting in certain areas of my very segregated city. If I were to get a white prospect, Iíd know they were a tester, lol! Just kidding.
Always amazes me when I see people say, find another reason to decline. Ummm yeah. That is evidence of discrimination right there. You are digging deeper in THIS person because they are in a protected class that you donít like. In a city in my state, tattoos and piercings are protected class. Somebody comes up with tarts? Donít dig deeper into their background than ANY other applicant. Either they have made a go if it with income, background, credit, or not. Treat everyone equally, develop written criteria and DOCUMENT . If the prospects are saying, doing, acting ... document that . Major cities often offer landlord training classes for free! Take those classes!
And donít be so afraid to interact with people who arenít like you! I doubt I would have much in common with my own grandparents , had I known them . --172.58.xxx.xx
Fair Housing testers (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 12:02 PM
Tatts, not yummy fruit pies! --172.58.xxx.xx
Fair Housing testers (by WI House [WI]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 12:17 PM
Brad, do you have a link? I'm wondering what the huge fine was for.
I have definitely had phone calls from testers before. They tell me that they are disabled and want to know if I will let them modify my house if they pay for it. I say yes and ask if they want to see the place and they never follow up on it. I've also had a lot of people show up for viewings and ask if I take emotional support animals. I ask if they have a letter from a doctor, they say that they are in the process of getting one, I say to let me know when the have the letter, and I never hear from them again. --47.41.xxx.xxx
Fair Housing testers (by cjl [NY]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 12:19 PM
Although this doesn't surprise me - it still "surprises" me that landlords/owners, etc are still this way.
I don't care Ö just be able to pay your rent/bills, be clean, hospitable and don't cause trouble or damage.
Hopefully those don't become protected classes ... --69.201.xx.xxx
Fair Housing testers (by WI House [WI]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 12:21 PM
Busy, where in WI are people with tattoos and piercings a protected class?
Brad, the numbers you listed for racist landlords are very shocking and disheartening. --47.41.xxx.xxx
Fair Housing testers (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 12:22 PM
Amen cjl! --172.58.xxx.xx
Fair Housing testers (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 12:28 PM
All calls going to voice mail get the same recorded message.
All canned cut 'n paste responses are from the same Word Document.
All people who lock box tour see the same house.
All applications screened using the same set of objective criteria.
Fair Housing testers (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 12:32 PM
Wi House, not in the city where I operate, but, Iíll let you research your own specific area. It was mentioned in the landlord bootcamp I just took, but I didnít pay exact attention to what cities, because, not my city. And because body art doesnít bother me, pretty prevalent these days. --172.58.xxx.xx
Fair Housing testers (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 12:42 PM
What LL with a lick of business sense discriminates against an applicant for anything other than DIS-qualifiers like not enough income, violent criminal history or such?
It seems to me these protected classes have lost their revelance in today's world - and then you hear studies like that one. Sad. --50.82.xxx.xx
Fair Housing testers (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 12:47 PM
Not worried. --174.201.xx.xxx
Fair Housing testers (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 12:47 PM
I have seen ads on facebook where the owner says no kids,i send them a message and tell them to delete the ad you cant do that,i am a landlord and not trying to get you in trouble but just trying to help and they want to argue with me that the last tenants kids wrecked the place etc so therefore they can say no kids and it clearly an owner who does not live at the house --72.231.xxx.xxx
Fair Housing testers (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 12:58 PM
Brad's "facts" are a little confusing... For anyone that wants to read the actual report:
I'll just clarify a few things:
1. They recorded 237 fair housing allegations from 780 clients.
2. They opened 61 investigations based on those allegations.
3. They did conduct 315 tests as Brad indicated.
4. They filed 5 "enforcement actions" to address discrimination.
5. The one that got the big $200k+ fine might have been "triggered" by a verbal statement like Brad said, but it was actually much more obvious than that with everything else involved. This landlord would walk into a sick tenants place without permission or notice and demand that they move out. They also had a big sign outside the building that says "ADULTS ONLY" and refused to take kids. They were fined for discrimination based on disability (for trying to kick out the sick person) and familial status.
Don't get me wrong -- do be careful what you say, of course... But this wasn't some case of a LL just saying something that was interpreted incorrectly and got them into trouble. This person was BLATANTLY and OBVIOUSLY discriminating on multiple grounds.
Fair Housing testers (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 12:59 PM
Ken: Agreed -- there are lots of idiot LLs out there. And, heck, even if it WAS an owner that lived in the place where they CAN legally discriminate -- they still can't ADVERTISE it that way. So, they were wrong either way, of course.
Fair Housing testers (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 1:10 PM
For those interested, here are some of the 13 cases that they "resolved" with Landlords in discrimination situations:
1. Buildings built post-1991 didn't have proper accessibility. They settled with the developer for over $116k -- and an agreement to fix most of the issues.
2. A newspaper ad that read "Wanted: Male Live in Companion
for Female, Age 64-76, White or Light Brown."
3. An ESA where the housing said that they could have it in their no-pets unit, but would have to pay an additional security deposit (which is, of course, no allowed).
4. A PM that was charging "per head" in their lease renewal -- so people with more kids paid more.
5. An apartment complex with a "no pets" policy denied an existing tenant's right to get an ESA.
I thought it was interesting to see what violations came up. We talk about a lot of those things here all the time.
Fair Housing testers (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 1:11 PM
I've been doing this in ATL for 30+ years. I, still to this day, can't believe we need testers. What the heck is going on?
Folks a few years ago I had a neighbor to one rental arrested. When our current renters moved out he came over and told me if you put any N word in here i'll burn it down. Scared the you know what outta me. I called the police and they arrested him right on the spot for terroristic threats. My cleaner girl also heard him and was a witness. He moved after about 3 weeks.
My question is this: what do you think I had to tell every applicant, who wasn't white, about the neighbor?
I'm originally from LI NY but have lived in the south since 1972. You can't be in the south and discriminate when you have a business to run. No way no how!!!! --99.103.xxx.xxx
Fair Housing testers (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 1:20 PM
MYOB, you are talking about discrimination against only one protected class, people of color. What about religion? Or national origin? (both big ones these days.) NC famously tried to leglislate gender by bathroom usage. If the state does it, can you imagine some LLs don't?
Intolerance is alive and well in the US in every state in the Union. --50.82.xxx.xx
Fair Housing testers (by JKJ [MA]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 1:28 PM
I too have gotten phone calls from what I suspected to be testers. They would call and ask about section 8 or HomeBASE and I want to say almost bait me into saying something by saying things to me Like ď Iím interested in the apartment do you take section 8, I understand if you donít I just donít want to waste my timeĒ then never show up. I donít know for sure, entirely possible is was just someone asking that then changed their mind and decided not to come too. --71.248.xxx.xxx
Fair Housing testers (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 2:04 PM
Was watching a streamed tv show about Germany where there is very limited supply of rental housing. Germany for example has lower home ownership then other countries. The owner could refuse to accept people with children which surprised me. Find problem people always try to look for a rental unit or house that does not thorough credit checks on all adult which excludes problem tenants as one will have a negative report. Everyone is treated the same regardless of nationality, place of origin or source of income. A higher rent excludes people on social assistance as there is a cap on rent along with social assistance wants people to rental units all inclusive. A rental unit where the utilities are not included excludes a lot of problem tenants as they have unpaid utilities. Utility bills and rent go hand in hand together. In rent controlled jurisdictions often the vacancy is one per cent or zero which means rental housing providers will not touch people with credit scores below the seven hundreds. So in the end no one can supply rental units for everyone. --147.194.xxx.xx
Fair Housing testers (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 2:10 PM
WMH NC let me tell say this WMH-- this is a joke about use of bathrooms. When in a restaurant or wherever -- if the men's room door is closed and locked or if it's full and I have to go-- I USE THE LADIES ROOM. That's right ---I LOCK THE DOOR or if I have to call my wife to stand outside (which isn't to often) .
You know the funny thing. Transgender men-- there's no urinals in ladies rooms-- there doors on the water closets. Women who use mens rooms will also have to use water closet since they can't sit on the edge of the urinal.
As far as children-- with what we all know is happening in this world of perverts-- no kid should be going to the bathroom alone--- . --99.103.xxx.xxx
Fair Housing testers (by WI House [WI]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 2:21 PM
JKJ, That sounds a lot like my calls. They don't seem to want to take "Yes, I will let you modify my house" for an answer and keep asking the same question over and over in different ways. None of them has even made an appointment to see the place in person. It's actually a little insulating and disappointing because I would never discriminate against a disabled person, although my house would be very difficult to modify.
Busy, I wasn't able to find anything with a google search. I was just curious because I have never heard of that before. I wouldn't discriminate against someone over tattoos and piercings, but I think that making those protected classes is going a bit too far.
John, I haven't read the report but #2 surprises me a bit. Was it more of a work position like work in exchange for rent? Because to me it almost sounds more like a personal ad with someone looking for a lover, in which case I would think that they could legally discriminate.
Even if it was a roommate or tenant situation, I have seen many people here post that you can discriminate when you live in the same dwelling as the tenant, so I'm curious about it. --47.41.xxx.xxx
Fair Housing testers (by WI House [WI]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 2:28 PM
That was supposed to say insulting. --47.41.xxx.xxx
Fair Housing testers (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 2:33 PM
MYOB, bathrooms are often not gender-sized in Europe. No big deal. You have to go, you have to go! I just wish doors in US were sealed rather than 2" gaps between sides of stall and doors on either side LOL!
There's a "Mrs. Murphy" rule that saws if you live in the house and there are four or fewer units, you can discriminate to a fare thee well. Choose your own poison.
But you can't *ADVERTISE* discriminatory ads no matter what. That's why #2 is an issue. I had to think about it a bit, but that's the reason. --50.82.xxx.xx
Fair Housing testers (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 2:42 PM
Thank you Brad for the reminder. --73.120.xx.xxx
Fair Housing testers (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 2:44 PM
As a contractor I was working on a clients apartment complex remodeling an empty apartment. A family comes by and asks to see the unit. They started to walk inside. I stopped them and prevented them from entering. They were "Housing Testers" sent they by the City and Section 8. A case was opened up and the owner of the building was summoned to a hearing.
It was completely amazing how "stupid" the way the City/Section 8 handled the issues. They made up rules to suit their needs. I got a change to be heard. Here is what I told the Hearing Officer:
1) This was a construction site and "NO ONE" is allowed to enter during the construction phase. This is "contracting" law, basics.
2) Only the owner, real estate agent/broker, resident manager or paid employee of the owner can show a vacant unit. Since I'm an independent contractor, I'm not allowed to show a property that I don't have an interest in. Basic real estate law.
Had I allowed a "family" to enter and a child got hurt, I would have been held liable for any damages -- we are talking millions. I followed the law and her we are where the City wanted me to break several laws to show a unit that wasn't even on the market yet and was weeks away from a listing.
The case against the landlord was taken under advisement and it went now where. They City didn't want to admit their "testers" wanted us to violate codes, laws and common sense. --47.156.xx.xx
Fair Housing testers (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 2:53 PM
Wi House, I found it on the very first click. Join your SouthCentral Wisconsin Apartment Association. They can teach you the language that covers it. --70.92.xxx.xxx
Fair Housing testers (by J [FL]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 4:55 PM
There are still rental ads on CL that say "no criminal history", so apparently a lot of people are clueless when it comes to keeping up with this stuff. --72.188.xxx.xxx
Fair Housing testers (by J [FL]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 5:12 PM
what concerns me is getting in trouble by not getting back to someone.
When you advertise on Zillow you get a blizzard of responses and it can be overwhelming trying to answer them all. Occasionally I'll forget to get back to them and it's not because I'm discriminating, it's because I can't keep up. --72.188.xxx.xxx
Fair Housing testers (by WI House [WI]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 6:35 PM
Busy, You must be using different search terms than I am, because all I am finding is stuff about employers/employees. Thanks for the tip on the landlord association, but $274 per year seems a little steep considering I only have 1 house. I might do a boot camp in Milwaukee later this year. Doing that and joining the association in the same year is not in the budget. It's been an expensive year so far and it's still March. --47.41.xxx.xxx
Fair Housing testers (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 6:40 PM
Holy mackerel, your association is expensive! Look for Ďpersonal appearanceí. --70.92.xxx.xxx
Fair Housing testers (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 6:46 PM
Wi house, I used the words: Madison, tattoos, and rentals, and came up with a tenantís rights group. Oh, my! --70.92.xxx.xxx
Fair Housing testers (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 7:35 PM
An Ďintakeí was defined as a contact for information or a complaint.
My take away is more than 237 people and less than 780 complained about discrimination and from that the office created 237 files to investigate.
So 237 LLs were investigated in some form.
I know there is plenty of discrimination happening. Itís stupid. I wonder if the discrimination figures are so high because they probably used their resources wisely and targeted suspicious LLs.
We donít even meet them or see them until the In Home Visit.
The LL with the big fine: the report says it started with what she SAID to her res, then found more problems. In any event she should have known better.
Fair Housing testers (by Nellie [ME]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 7:47 PM
I believe we have been tested several times. I have one particular unit, first floor, 2 bedrooms, 1 bath that has had a tester twice for a ďmother in a wheelchairĒ and live in son to help. Yup, you can make the necessary modifications, escrow return to original condition. You pay for all modifications. Must pass screening. Never even get an application. But they waste an hour of my time. Argh!
Another one, supposedly a professor with three kids. You are welcome to view the apartment but I think you find the layout to be unsuitable for a family. (1 bath, 2 bedrooms on 2nd floor, 3rd bedroom in attic, accessed through the larger second floor bedroom, crappy kitchen). He did come look. Didnít stay long.
And my favorite, a family of color supposedly moving from an area of the state that is unlikely to have that demographic. Neither my husband nor I believed the story. We were all about the extra income from their cats and dog, so we passed that test. --70.105.xxx.xxx
Fair Housing testers (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Mar 28, 2019 7:02 AM
Brad: Again, it is what they SAID to her tenant -- AFTER they walked into the unit without notice or permission multiple times. Again, all I'm saying that it was more than just a slip of the tongue in that case. The person was actively and obviously discriminating. Heck, they had an "ADULTS ONLY" sign on the outside of the complex! HA!
Fair Housing testers (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Mar 28, 2019 7:04 AM
Nellie: I'd be very careful about saying things like "I think you find the layout to be unsuitable for a family" -- especially in your 3BR unit!? Who do you THINK will want to rent a 3BR unit??
I know you meant well -- but I'd never tell someone that I think they may not find a unit suitable for a family...
And you think that was a tester? My guess is it wasn't or you would have had followup with that statement. :)
Fair Housing testers (by Wilma [PA]) Posted on: Mar 28, 2019 4:50 PM
I've had some. They always pass the preliminary interview with flying colors. Then they arrive - usually either minority (for our area) family, or bi-racial family. Very polite, very well-behaved kids. We proceed with the tour as usual, and sure enough, the veiled questions come. Like, "Can you tell us the ethnic makeup of this neighborhood?" ("We don't live here, so really can't say. You're welcome to drive around and see for yourself.")
They usually press for an answer - we just repeat politely the above. We always offer an application, which is never returned, and never get another contact. Except for one woman, who had seemed uncomfortable the entire time the husband was trying to trip us up. She called a few days later and said that they would not be applying, and gave a really lame excuse - but hey, she apologized for the time we spent! --71.175.xxx.xxx
Fair Housing testers (by Dan [NY]) Posted on: Mar 29, 2019 4:15 AM
I think itís jus a sad world how some folks treat others different based on superficial characteristics. Treat all prospects equally and you will be fine. Treating everyone equally should make good business sense too. This may actually garnish you better applicants that you may over look. --68.192.xxx.xxx
Fair Housing testers (by Libi [NY]) Posted on: Mar 29, 2019 8:01 PM
I think I will like to have this testerís job as a side hustle.
Any idea how to apply? --74.90.xx.xxx
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