Hubby not on lease (by Kay [OK]) Mar 13, 2019 11:16 AM|
Hubby not on lease (by Jeff [CO]) Mar 13, 2019 11:20 AM
Hubby not on lease (by Jeff [CO]) Mar 13, 2019 11:25 AM
Hubby not on lease (by plenty [MO]) Mar 13, 2019 11:46 AM
Hubby not on lease (by Kay [OK]) Mar 13, 2019 11:53 AM
Hubby not on lease (by Jeff [CO]) Mar 13, 2019 11:59 AM
Hubby not on lease (by Kay [OK]) Mar 13, 2019 12:07 PM
Hubby not on lease (by Mike [TX]) Mar 13, 2019 12:09 PM
Hubby not on lease (by Robert J [CA]) Mar 13, 2019 12:09 PM
Hubby not on lease (by Mike [TX]) Mar 13, 2019 12:17 PM
Hubby not on lease (by Ken [NY]) Mar 13, 2019 12:22 PM
Hubby not on lease (by LindaJ [NY]) Mar 13, 2019 1:00 PM
Hubby not on lease (by Moshe [CA]) Mar 13, 2019 1:06 PM
Hubby not on lease (by Jeff [CO]) Mar 13, 2019 1:08 PM
Hubby not on lease (by Ken [NY]) Mar 13, 2019 1:15 PM
Hubby not on lease (by Jeff [CO]) Mar 13, 2019 1:21 PM
Hubby not on lease (by Ken [NY]) Mar 13, 2019 1:29 PM
Hubby not on lease (by Jeff [CO]) Mar 13, 2019 1:35 PM
Hubby not on lease (by Ken [NY]) Mar 13, 2019 1:41 PM
Hubby not on lease (by Jeff [CO]) Mar 13, 2019 1:45 PM
Hubby not on lease (by Ken [NY]) Mar 13, 2019 2:02 PM
Hubby not on lease (by Kay [OK]) Mar 13, 2019 2:04 PM
Hubby not on lease (by Robert J [CA]) Mar 13, 2019 3:49 PM
Hubby not on lease (by Moshe [CA]) Mar 13, 2019 4:36 PM
Hubby not on lease (by Robert J [CA]) Mar 13, 2019 11:35 PM
Hubby not on lease (by LindaJ [NY]) Mar 14, 2019 4:40 AM
Hubby not on lease (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Mar 14, 2019 7:42 AM
Hubby not on lease (by Moshe [CA]) Mar 14, 2019 9:28 AM
Hubby not on lease (by Kay [OK]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 11:16 AM
State Specific Question About: OKLAHOMA (OK)
I have a tenant who moved out of property owing rent. Towards the end of her tenancy she married. Her husband wasn't in the picture when she moved in so he wasn't on the lease. Is there anyway I can hold both of them legally liable for unpaid rent and damages?
Hubby not on lease (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 11:20 AM
Hubby not on lease (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 11:25 AM
I take that back. I will say that I don't see how. He's not on the lease. But then, if you're married I believe you are considered to be one. Correct? I also know that my leases should have a "together or in severalty" rent clause.
Why would you need the husband? Does he have more assets or is he working and she is not? --76.120.xx.xx
Hubby not on lease (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 11:46 AM
He should save her from herself. Just go after her. Superman will rescue --99.203.xx.x
Hubby not on lease (by Kay [OK]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 11:53 AM
My husband and I had pretty much the same conversation last night as your responses to me. I said since he's not on the lease he isn't liable. My husband brought up that since they're married he may be liable as well.
The lease states "In the event of more than one tenant, each tenant is jointly and severally responsible and liable for all provisions of this agreement. No other persons nor animals may live there without Owners' prior written permission."
They are both employed. She recently got a new job and he's worked for the same company for years. I don't know whose income is greater. My thought was since I don't know where they moved that if I could have them both served at work it might embarrass them enough to make good on their debt without going to court. Plus if necessary, we could get a garnishment for both of their wages.
Hubby not on lease (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 11:59 AM
It sounds like you're on top of things. Your lease covers you very well. I wonder how that would work, but I would just go after her. She's a sure thing.
Good luck! --76.120.xx.xx
Hubby not on lease (by Kay [OK]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 12:07 PM
That's true she's a sure thing. And as Plenty pointed out, he could be her knight in shining armor and save the day. --72.202.xxx.xx
Hubby not on lease (by Mike [TX]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 12:09 PM
If he is not on the lease you cannot go after him . --73.166.xxx.xxx
Hubby not on lease (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 12:09 PM
I had the reverse. A single man got married two years into a lease. His new wife was bossy, sometimes paid the rent with her personal check. They one day they moved out. They purchased a condo across the street that was underwater from a bank with a zero down payment. So I knew they could afford to pay their last months rent.
I went after them. The Wife told the judge she wasn't on the lease and therefor took no owning on her husbands debt.
I told the judge these few facts:
1) After a tenant moves in, it is almost impossible to "make" a tenant sign a new lease here in Los Angeles. Since his year lease was up after the 1st year, it became a month-to-month tenancy. As such, after the wife presented me a rent check with her name and that property address on the check, she then declared herself a tenant.
2) She lived in the apartment for over six months and we had many phone calls, text'ed messages and emails about their tenancy. Once working in their unit on a repair, she spoke often for the two of them.
3) She wasn't a roommate. She wasn't a guest. She was a tenant.
SO I won a judgment in small clams court against the two of them. Afterwards, I waited 6 months to collect so they wouldn't appeal the verdict. I then hired a collection agency to go after the wife's job's weekly salary. Not a sheriff, but a collection agency that writes letters and goes right to the employer for the funds. Not a 1 time payment, but a weekly garnishment. This made the wife so angry.....That was my plan. --47.156.xx.xx
Hubby not on lease (by Mike [TX]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 12:17 PM
Robert, your story is hard to swallow. It sounds like something a little kid would make up. And it’s hard to believe a real honest to goodness judge would be so stupid to believe that story and rule in your favor. Could you post proof of this? Or is this just a fantasy? --73.166.xxx.xxx
Hubby not on lease (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 12:22 PM
I would take them both to small claims court,if they don't show up I win,if they show he would have to argue he is not on the lease and my position would be he lived there with her and my state allows for no lease at all so as far as I am concerned she had a lease and moved him in without permission and he should not benefit by being deceitful.Worse case I get my judgment against her only.I have done evictions which include getting a judgment against 2 people when only 1 was on the lease --72.231.xxx.xxx
Hubby not on lease (by LindaJ [NY]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 1:00 PM
I am with Ken, go after both anyway. You are going to court anyway, might as well drag them both in. --108.4.xxx.xx
Hubby not on lease (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 1:06 PM
Is OK a community property state?
Did he EVER pay ANY rent? (at all)?
Hubby not on lease (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 1:08 PM
You just don't drag people into court. It costs money to serve people. You should always be sure that you are suing the right party. If you sue the wrong person you could very well have to reimburse them for their costs. There might also be other legal remedies available to someone who is falsely sued.
If you're not sure that the husband is responsible, don't bring a legal action against him. You also don't need to sue both. --76.120.xx.xx
Hubby not on lease (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 1:15 PM
Jeff,at least in my state a small claims case is $20 and would include both of them,if the judge did not agree with me the only thing that would happen is he would be removed from the case --72.231.xxx.xxx
Hubby not on lease (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 1:21 PM
Ken, you can file a small claims case in NY for $20? Here we can include multiple parties on a small claims summons and complaint.
It gets more expensive with service. If they have separate jobs, and they are served during the day, they would have to be served separately. --76.120.xx.xx
Hubby not on lease (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 1:29 PM
Jeff,if the amount I am asking for is under $1000 it is only $15. Noone gets served in a small claims case,all they do is mail it to the address for the defendant they are given by the plaintiff and the hearing is scheduled 6 weeks later,at the hearing if the defendant shows up it proceeds,if the defendant does not show up but the mail from the court gets returned to the court it gets thrown out,if the defendant does not show up and the letter from the court to the defendant does not get returned to the court then the defendant loses and the plaintiff gets a judgment.It has been that way for the 30 plus years I have been doing this business and I always thought it could be very unfair to a defendant but that is how it is done here. --72.231.xxx.xxx
Hubby not on lease (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 1:35 PM
It seems that the cost may have gone up since you last filed.
On nycourts.gov I see this:
Filing Fees - Court of Claims
Filing of claim $50
[Court of Claims Act §11-a]
That is interesting that the summons can be just mailed. --76.120.xx.xx
Hubby not on lease (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 1:41 PM
Jeff,i will have to ask next time I am at court,i haven't done a small claims in awhile,evictions in a town or village are still only $20,i have filed several of them lately for other landlords --72.231.xxx.xxx
Hubby not on lease (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 1:45 PM
Ken, my mistake. I thought that only county courts heard small claims cases. --76.120.xx.xx
Hubby not on lease (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 2:02 PM
Jeff,small claims and evictions are heard in town,village and city courts,i have done lots of them,i have never been in a county court that I can remember.The county and village courts for small claims are a lower dollar amount than city courts because quite often in the village and town courts the judges are not even attorneys,one village court in particular the judge worked for dpw one day literally throwing garbage in the back of a garbage truck and the next day was a judge because he won an election,kind of scary. --72.231.xxx.xxx
Hubby not on lease (by Kay [OK]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 2:04 PM
No Oklahoma is no longer a community property state. Yes he did pay rent a couple of times with cash which is how she always paid as well.
I don't remember specifically since it has been a while but small claims court is significantly more than $20 and I'd have to hire a process server or a deputy to serve them. --72.202.xxx.xx
Hubby not on lease (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 3:49 PM
If you were to ask any Los Angeles eviction attorney, they would tell you that unless you have a contract with a "roommate", if you evict, you will only get possession and NOT a MONEY JUDGEMENT. The rules are very specific.
They also changed the rules about landlords refusing to accept rent from a 3rd party. Before if a landlord accepted rent from a third party, then that person is a tenant. Now if a third party ties to pay a landlord rent, they landlord can make the 3rd party write a paper saying they are paying the rent for the tenant and are NOT LIVING there and agree they are not a tenant.
With 15 city counsel members, each one tries to make tenant groups happy at the expense of landlords.
And in our fewer and fewer eviction courts, we used to have 24 and and now down to 4 courts, there are Judges Pro Tem -- an attorney given a temporary job as the judge. They were put there because they love tenants and dislike the rich sumlords.
Then there's commissioners without a law degree but have worked in the courts for 10, 15 or 20 years an know how to do evictions.
And if you want a real judge, you will have to wait until the end of the day, like 4:30 pm to get a tired judge to hear your case.
For over 40 years I've gone to court for my evictions. In almost all cases I win because I know the rules and play by their game. It may take 2,3 or 4 times going back to court on the same case, but even the best tenant advocacy group has limited reach and resources. --47.156.xx.xx
Hubby not on lease (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 4:36 PM
If he paid any rent at all, then he has acknowledged that he is a tenant and therefore is responsible for rent along with the wife. The problem in this case is to prove that he paid rent, since he paid in cash and presumably without any receipt or other paperwork. For confirmation, see the law that you cite above, that in CA, a 3rd party can pay rent, but landlord must be careful to get signed agreement that he is not paying AS A TENANT.
By the way, Commissioners are lawyers in order to first be hired. They serve for, I think, 6 year contract (or more than one term) which allows them to get some good experience. Some of them are pretty good, but I think that judges are better.
I have never had to wait for more than 20 minutes to get a judge. I haven't been to court in years, and things might have gotten worse, but with 10-12 judges in a courthouse, there is usually at least one who is not actively presiding over an in-session courtroom, and can (and will) make time to hear a small claims case.
Hubby not on lease (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2019 11:35 PM
Moshe, there's no doubt that your very sharp when it comes to these legal issues. But since I still own low income housing, I find myself at the mercy of the courts. Instead of 15 to 20 cases assigned to a court room, it's now 40 to 60 cases. Then they are split into two groups. The uncontested cases and the ones going to trial. Unless the landlord and tenant go into the hallway and try to work out a compromise, then the judge will put your case at the end as punishment.
And if you ask for a real judge, not a commissioner or pretend attorney judge, they will make you wait until a judge is free -- which is after the daily docket -- like 4 PM or later.
All of my contacts in several law firms, head of landlord associations, owners, investors, developers and City Workers clue me in on the the system is broken and how unfair the rules are written in favor of the tenant, not the landlord. IN Los Angeles you can NOT evict a tenant if the rental has ongoing issues. Like a tenant will call the City and complain, 5 minutes after they rip down a blind or break a window saying, it's not save or habitable and the landlord won't fix it. --47.156.xx.xx
Hubby not on lease (by LindaJ [NY]) Posted on: Mar 14, 2019 4:40 AM
So it comes down to knowing what your state / local laws are and how to get a judgement. Maybe contact a lawyer.
Last small claims (less than $3000) I did last year cost $15. Although I didn't win all that I was due, I did get some, and the court fees. I brought the case against both my tenant and the live in girlfriend. Tenant never showed in court, the girlfriend brought a lawyer.
In retrospect, I might have been better off just naming the tenant. He wasn't so bright, and I bet had some issues with the law that he didn't want to show in court, but she had the w2 job. --108.4.xxx.xx
Hubby not on lease (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Mar 14, 2019 7:42 AM
It seems to me that if he is living there and not on a lease, he is a tenant at will. A tenant at will must pay the rent or be evicted.
You can't throw a tenant at will out onto the street without a court order, because legally, he has tenant rights.
Tenant rights means he has a tenant's responsibility t pay the rent.
I'd bill him.
Hubby not on lease (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Mar 14, 2019 9:28 AM
The Courts do not spend most of their tine dealing with small cases like evictions and small claims, where hordes of cases are heard in a day and run like an assembly line. Most cases are larger and often take more than a day for a single case. Judges spend a lot of time in the office reading briefs, doing research, waiting for attorneys to confer. If a small claims party asks for a judge, the request goes to the presiding judge's secretary, who will call around to the various courtrooms asking who is free to handle a small claims hearing. That generally means 5 or 10 minutes, and a judge will be reluctant to turn down the presiding judge's secretary when he knows that the standard of conduct is to make room for these requests when they are made.
Judges punish lawyers when they get too tricky, but I have never been punished or have seen a judge punish any party to a lawsuit for asking for their legitimate rights, and demanding a judge is one of those legitimate rights. Judges know that a request for a judge means that the party is unhappy with what he expects from a commissioner or a pro-tem, and that reflects on every judge in that courthouse.