Guests or Live-ins ?
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Guests or Live-ins ? (by Roy [AL]) Mar 6, 2019 5:48 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by NE [PA]) Mar 6, 2019 5:53 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by plenty [MO]) Mar 6, 2019 6:03 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Roy [AL]) Mar 6, 2019 6:12 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Steve [MA]) Mar 6, 2019 6:22 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Roy [AL]) Mar 6, 2019 6:31 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by S i d [MO]) Mar 6, 2019 6:41 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by WMH [NC]) Mar 6, 2019 6:46 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by razorback_tim [AR]) Mar 6, 2019 6:51 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by RB [MI]) Mar 6, 2019 6:54 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Roy [AL]) Mar 6, 2019 7:06 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Busy [WI]) Mar 6, 2019 7:34 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Still Learning [NH]) Mar 6, 2019 7:35 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Mar 6, 2019 7:46 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Mar 6, 2019 7:54 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Roy [AL]) Mar 6, 2019 7:56 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Busy [WI]) Mar 6, 2019 8:03 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by LindaJ [NY]) Mar 6, 2019 8:08 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by S i d [MO]) Mar 6, 2019 8:27 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Ken [NY]) Mar 6, 2019 8:28 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Busy [WI]) Mar 6, 2019 8:31 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Robert J [CA]) Mar 6, 2019 10:31 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by rentON [PA]) Mar 6, 2019 11:37 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Lynn [MA]) Mar 6, 2019 11:42 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Sisco [MO]) Mar 6, 2019 11:50 AM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Busy [WI]) Mar 6, 2019 1:27 PM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Sisco [MO]) Mar 6, 2019 3:06 PM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by 6x6 [TN]) Mar 6, 2019 4:09 PM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Roy [AL]) Mar 6, 2019 4:52 PM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Busy [WI]) Mar 6, 2019 4:59 PM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Sisco [MO]) Mar 6, 2019 7:21 PM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Busy [WI]) Mar 6, 2019 8:41 PM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Cjo’h [CT]) Mar 7, 2019 10:27 PM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Cjo’h [CT]) Mar 7, 2019 10:49 PM
       Guests or Live-ins ? (by Jkj [MA]) Mar 10, 2019 7:43 PM

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 5:48 AM

I need some clarification on why some Landlords make a big deal when their tenants allow guests who stay longer than a couple of weeks.

For example: If you rent to single person and if that tenant wants to have a shack-up partner live with him or her...why do you have a problem with the shack-up partner who is obviously not on the lease?

I don't mean to sound naive here, but what is the 'real issue' of people (shack-up partners) living with your tenant(s), but they are not officially on your lease?

Guests or Live-ins ? (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 5:53 AM

I usually don't make an issue out of it until it becomes an issue.

I have one guy in the unit right now who moved his girlfriend in about two years ago and I've seen her once and I never heard anything out of them and no complaints from the neighbors. No sense in making an issue when there really isn't one. --174.201.xx.xx

Guests or Live-ins ? (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 6:03 AM

Usually i dont. Just dont like to find out they have scretchy past or on some criminal list. Nice girls like bad boys and bad boys like nice girls. Go figure. --99.203.xx.xx

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 6:12 AM


I made this post after reading the other post titled "Pregnant friend moves in'. And most LL's have a paragraph in their leases that deals with a tenant's guests that stay longer than 14 days. Again, what are the underlying issues with your tenants allowing their guests to hang-around more than a few weeks?

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Steve [MA]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 6:22 AM

Roy, in the "Pregnant friend moves in" case unless the unit is deleaded the LL could end up in expensive world of hurt.

Unless it creates an issue for other tenants, the neighbors or myself, I don't get too concerned about it. --96.237.xx.xx

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 6:31 AM


From my point of view, what I see here are LL's who have gone over-board in trying to 'micro-manage' their tenant's lives. Actually, that should have been the title of my post here,...'Why do LL's 'micro-manage' their tenants lives'?

Guests or Live-ins ? (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 6:41 AM

Let me ask the same question back to you Roy, from a slightly different angle: why do you do a background check on any of your tenants who are on the lease? Or do you background check them?

Guests or Live-ins ? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 6:46 AM

That was my question, SID. If we insist that "all prospective tenants over 18" complete an application, undergo a background check, and be on the lease, jointly and severally, why wouldn't we do that for anyone else who wants to move in later? If they don't meet my requirements, why would I want them living in my property?

Guests or Live-ins ? (by razorback_tim [AR]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 6:51 AM

I want every adult living there financially responsible for the lease. The more people you have to pursue the more likely you are to be paid.

I want a background check on them - make sure they meet the same criteria as I would require for anyone else - no drug dealing, not a violent criminal, etc.

I want to be prepared for the original tenant to move and leave the shack up partner behind. This is likely to end in an eviction and I want to know everyone’s name for the purposes of filing and serving.

Guests or Live-ins ? (by RB [MI]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 6:54 AM

Naive = Showing a lack of Experience, Wisdom or Judgement.

Why would I want anyone, overstaying or living in

one of my rentals, who has not been (legally) screened x3,

qualified, with signature on lease and pays to live there.

Sounds like another attempt to make the Top Discussion List.

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 7:06 AM

Sid and WMH,

Yes, I do background checks and I do understand what you all are saying. However, my lease states (and I say it verbally to all new tenants) that tenants are 100% responsible for their guests and/or anyone else you allow to cross the threshold of this humble abode.

My only real issue with un-authorized guests is when I find out my tenants are 'sub-leasing' a bedroom to one of their friends,...that is when I step in and call 'time-out'.

Another situation is when a tenant's 'extended family' has moved in and your got 20 people living in an 800 sq.ft. 2/2 MH. (MH king Richard in (MI) maybe able to give some insight on this situation).

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 7:34 AM

RB, are you another person who says everyone must do things my way, or they are wrong?

I see people who do things differently than me as creating opportunities for me. I can pick up a good tenant when they ( fill in blank), or, I can pick up a property when another property owners gets tired of the mess they created for themselves.

And, I know I am creating opportunities for other landlords, because I do many things my own way.

Roy, I have a saying in my landlording practice that tells you where I fall on this issue: If I don’t let my tenants help family and friends out when they’re in a spot, who is going to help my tenant when they need it?

Part of that is because of the life I lived when I was growing up. I saw some things. Doesn’t mean I am all savvy at spotting when things will be trouble, I KNOW my landlording practice will be bit by this, and have been already. But, the landlording practice has also benefited.

And, I also watch out for Opportunity Cost. Something I think is undervalued in many landlord’s practice.

Will my practices create opportunity for some other landlord to come in and Score! when I fail spectacularly. Maybe so. I am OK with that. I could NEVER live in a country where everyone must do things the same. Sadly, we are moving towards that, it many ways.

I like the road less travelled.

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Still Learning [NH]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 7:35 AM

I don’t care until there are now drugs running through a building, loud police being called issues, bedbugs or cockroaches coming in, too many cars in the lot, animals in a no pet building, people sleeping in a no egress basement, etc. Some landlords pay utilities and their bills go up. I had a tenant ask about girlfriend and child moving in and being on lease. They were already spending a lot of time there. I explained the pros and cons of them being added to the lease. He chose not to because they were having issues. Shortly after she disappeared. Better she wasn’t on the lease.

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 7:46 AM

Everybody gets screened because I want to know who is in there. I don't want drug manufacturers, child molesters, rapists, hoarders living in my houses.

There is a very common practice, at least in my area, where a very unqualified person does not apply so that their acceptable partner of friend can obtain a rental. The undesirable then moves in. Or maybe a few of his undesirable friends move in.

I think the question is why do you screen your original applicant and once that is done, anyone can move in, no matter who they are?

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 7:54 AM

I suspect there are some serious liability issues. I don't intend to test it in court.

You don't care who lives in your units and you allow a child molester to move in and he molests or murders the baby next door. There are people sleeping in your no-exit basement and they burn to death. They make meth in your unit and burn the building down...

Or, much more likely, they are too loud, too dirty, too obnoxious and they drive your other tenants to move out.

Courts do have a tendency to make the landlord responsible for everything that happens and even if there is absolutely no fault of the landlords, the jury will still go after deeper pockets and don't forget, juries tend to be composed of tenants.

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 7:56 AM

Still Learning,

You provided a very good reason why a LL should be concerned about additional occupants,..'when that LL is paying the utilities'! More occupants,..higher utility bills! Makes perfect sense.

RB: Why many of my posts end up in the Top 10 List is a mystery to me too. Maybe someone else can chime in on this. It could be that I not as naive as I might appear to be.

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 8:03 AM

Yep, need to know who is there. So, I also get names. Haven’t always, but learned that lesson. In my state, if I have it correctly, after 60 days, couch-surfers become tenants. I don’t ‘put’ them on the MTM tenancy because I want the tenant to have authority over couch surfers. And, if tenant cannot maintain order, the whole unit gets to Vacate. But, in my experience, having just original tenant on paperwork definitely helps tenant maintain control. YMMV.

I need to make sure I have that in my contract Roy. That’s good stuff. (Tenant’s are 100% responsible for their guests and/ or anyone else they allow to cross the threshold of this humble abode.) Well, I won’t plagarize. You said it best though, Roy. I verbally tell tenants that, just need to make sure it’s in the MTM contract.

DISCLAIMER: mines are C properties in a tough city. Some of y’all might think my houses are in a war zone. Nope, the war zones are about 2 miles southeast of mine, with occasional spectacular explosions out in the suburbs, surrounding ‘nice’ communities.

Guests or Live-ins ? (by LindaJ [NY]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 8:08 AM

I am not concerned with guests staying to long or moving in. My agreement says my tenant is responsible for all damages by visitors and guests. Since my tenants have been screened well, I figure their guests are decent. If my tenants don't want to add someone to agreement that is their business, plenty of reasons. They make the payments. the cost of having another person or two there is not that much. (Now 20 more is a different story) I too think it is micromanaging tenants. There are too many other things to be doing! Of course if a guest is staying to long AND causing trouble, it is another story.

I chat when I am at the property so I find out if someone is staying a lot. It may be my building, but it is their home. In fact I just asked one tenant who's long time boyfriend is out of town and they alternate weekends to visit, when he might be moving in (sort of joking) She told me she is thinking of buying a house near him this year. (M2M) So now I have heads up of what she is thinking, although it could change. She has been there 5 years, so it is getting time.

I am not strict about a lot of things other LL are. It is nice to hear their models and opinions. But I find what works for me. It might be different if I have a large number of units, but then it might not.

Guests or Live-ins ? (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 8:27 AM

Roy, my lease says the same as yours regarding the tenant being responsible for his/her guests. Leases say many things, but tenants aren't always willing or able to comply. They think silly thoughts like "Oh the land lord will never check on my drug dealing ex-con boyfriend because my last land lord never did."

Also, think of the sweet little 20-something who lets her druggie boy friend move in without telling me, then he starts punching holes in the walls and marking up her face. Think she's going to be able to stop that bozo, even if she promises and wants to? Will she have money to pay for the repairs?

I think some people live under the false assumption that checking on Guests means I want to "meddle" somehow in my otherwise tenant's otherwise carefree lives. Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm simply protecting my investment.

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 8:28 AM

Roy,I will say it,a lot of landlords are full of themselves and there authority and get all puffed up about being able to tell others what they can and cannot do.I don't care what my tenants do as long as I get paid,they don't bother anyone and they don't wreck the place,part of the reason I can do rent to owns and many landlords don't.If I need to do an eviction I just put the tenants name on it and the name of the person who is not on the lease on it also and have not been challenged.If I pay water bill I add $50 charge to the rent as my lease says I can and don't get any pushback on that.

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 8:31 AM

Good point in here about multi family units vs single family. I don't own multi family units for exactly this reason. I've done enough 'playground duty' to last a lifetime. I don't need squabbles over 'Your tenants are... " Get enough of that from the neighbors. And then, we find out its the neighbors whose grandkids, grown kids, whatever were the problem. Every darn time!

I do keep tabs on the tenants, maybe more than most, BECAUSE I rent to tenants that are one or two steps away from falling down the slippery slope. But, I help them navigate back to the path.

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 10:31 AM

IF a landlord accepts rent or money from a guest, they automatically become a known roommate/tenant. If a landlord sees the same person hanging around a rental and is staying there and does nothing about it, then a landlords inaction causes the "guest" to be a known occupant.

So if the guy with a girlfriend that stays over a bunch gets into a fight and the guy is hauled off to jail, WHO IS GOING TO PAY THE RENT? The girlfriend left in your rental???

Who are you kidding. Without a signed lease, you will NEVER recover lost rent from a "guest". You may will your eviction, but no Money Judgement.


Guests or Live-ins ? (by rentON [PA]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 11:37 AM

It's a huge expense issue in a multifamily unit and you're paying for the water and sewage. Additional occupants = increased variable expenses. It's less of an expense issue in a single family home if Tenant is paying utilities. --67.165.xx.xx

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Lynn [MA]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 11:42 AM

I had a tenant who had 3 kids and moved in 2 baby daddies and her mother in. Enough is enough, see you later.

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Sisco [MO]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 11:50 AM

You would be guilty of housing discrimination if you did not apply the same screening standards to all who reside in your house.

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 1:27 PM

Sisco, that’s a valid point. Employers have been held guilty for discrimination by having a hiring preference to family of current employees In some instances, and others still do give a bump up to someone related to those already working for the company. I’m thinking it was employers who used a points system for employment, as the relationship was allowed to compensate for other criteria. Way too long ago in my brain to recollect the case law and the particulars.

Would be interesting to see how that could play out in a landlord case.

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Sisco [MO]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 3:06 PM

I think a LL who made requirements for residency for some, then just allowed other people; qualified or unqualified to move in without defining the terms of visitor or guest wouldn't stand a chance in court.

Guests or Live-ins ? (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 4:09 PM

I agree with Sid and others about why screen the tenant and not others moving in.

You also have more ware and tare and could end up with criminals.

Maybe you have a no smoking home and they move in a smoker.

What if tenant moves out without notice and guest stays?

If you allow one, are you giving them the idea they could move in more?

My lease says a similar thing about tenant responsible for guest but also says no long term guest without written permission.

I am just protecting my investment. If that makes me a micro manager then so be it.

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 4:52 PM


None of my Class C tenants ever call and say "Is it okay for me to allow someone to move-in with me? If they did, I would request the person fill out an application and allow me to do a background check.

However, the reality here is the tenants do not ask and just move the person in. When I ask the tenant about it, he will usually say "I needed some help paying rent and that is why he/she is here". I then remind the tenant that he is 100% responsible for the actions of his roommate or shack-up partner or whatever.

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 4:59 PM

Sisco, what would the court case be about?

‘Your honor, landlord made me fill out an application, but she let me move in my boyfriend with so much as a sniff. That’s not fair! .?

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Sisco [MO]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 7:21 PM

No Busy, I suspect a rabble rouser looking for a lawsuit would apply, be rejected, and call in the lawyers. The investigators would interview the tenants of all of your properties and uncover that some are screened and others are not.

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 6, 2019 8:41 PM

Got it. Boy, I need to learn to be more paranoid. Never thought I would need more suspicions.

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Cjo’h [CT]) Posted on: Mar 7, 2019 10:27 PM

Roy,you and I are just plain country folk and like you say are a little nieve most people know when the welcome mat is moved and it’s time to move on. That girl you mentioned.think she overstayer her welcome, Don’t you? By just a little bit.................. Charlie.....................

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Cjo’h [CT]) Posted on: Mar 7, 2019 10:49 PM

Think she was getting more than a saucer of milk?..................,,

Guests or Live-ins ? (by Jkj [MA]) Posted on: Mar 10, 2019 7:43 PM

I do not allow extended overnight guests in my apartments. Years ago I rented to 2 friends. I had in my basic lease that nobody other than who is on the lease could live there and no subleting. number 1 was great, number 2 was a nightmare. Number 2 had his girlfriend over every night for 3 months. There is only enough parking for 2 cars, so she was parking on neighbors front yards and I was getting complaints. I sent a letter to them saying that the girlfriend cannot keep staying there, the lease says only those on the lease can live there etc etc. number 2 send me a letter back saying she is not staying there, she is a guest. She is invited over everyday, waits quietly outside to be let in as she doesn’t have a key, visits and then leaves to return to her house every morning. Because the lease doesn’t say how many overnight stays constitute someone living there, and she is visiting every night as a guest he’s not in violation of the lease. Fortunately in the lease it did clearly state only 2 cars were allowed parking, and any activity and behavior that disturbed other tenants or neighbors was a violation of the lease. so I evicted number 2 on the extra car and the complaints from the neighbors regarding the parking. And signed a new lease with number 1, number 1 told me later that he was so relieved when I evicted them, the girlfriend always there was horrible but he felt stuck with it being his friend. Number 1 ended up renting from me without a single issue for 6 more years until he moved in with his girlfriend. Now all my leases say no more than 15 overnight guests in a 60 day period. If I were to allow tenants to have “friends” stay for extended periods I run the risk of them claiming residency and I would have no idea who they are, their criminal past, etc and I would potentially have to go to court to get rid of them. I want everyone that is living in my apartments to be on the lease so I can 1) background check all of them, 2) I can go after everyone living there should I need to get a judgement for past rent or damages. Long story short, I learned my lesson, everyone staying there goes on the lease, and I have it in writing how many overnight stays are allowed before I consider it more than a guest. It has nothing to do with micromanaging or being nosey as some have stated above.

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