I know this topic has been discussed once before here.

I have a zero interest introductory credit card rate for 15 months.

Can I keep transferring the balance to new zero interest cards for several years or do the credit card companies get tired of people like me quickly. and the offers stop coming? I thought it would be a simple way to "borrow" money for awhile.

Thanks.

Depending on credit score, you can get offers for a while. My credit score tanked as I racked up a good bit of debt to get the rentals, put them in use. Now, i’m Slowly paying them off. Some cards will make those offers again, some just had the one initial 0%, then haven’t offered low transfer rates again.

I suggest you also sign onto one of the credit monitoring sites, not sure if that’s the proper term, but , any way, a site like Credit Karma. There are other sites out there, cannot think of the names right now. On all of your cards, you’ll want to watch utilization, and the other factors that affect credit. Best if you can keep utilization below 30%. I have one cards at just over 70% utilization, that one card is taking the score down. But, overall, I’m getting things paid down.

There are fees for transferring to the zero interest rates, at my current credit score, I’m seeing 3-5% upfront fee for transferring. When I started doing this, and had a perfect credit score, economy was in the tank, so I used to see 0% interest, 0% transfer fee. I used to be good at math, but haven’t used those formulas for so long, I cannot figure out what the difference is between, for example : 3% fee now, zero interest for 18 months, $2k, and no fees, 12% interest, other terms the same. Embarrassing that I cannot remember that stuff, those classes were long ago, I don’t have the textbooks. But, those are comparisons I really should be making. I just try to avoid the 4-5% upfront fees.

The big box home improvement stores also offer 0% on large purchases, occasionally for as long as 48 months. I buy a big gift card, usually $2000, on the 0% rate, then, as needed, use the gift card for materials.

Be sure you keep careful track of when the zero/ low interest rates expire. Most cards it can be found on the monthly statement. A couple don’t have that info on the statement or the log in site. I write a list of the terms, add to it when I pick up another transfer, watch the expiration dates.

Thank you Busy!

I had to buy about 1500 sf of flooring unexpectedly, right when my budget was tied up in a couple of roofs and some major plumbing and electrical I hadn't intended, so I signed up for an HD credit card. They had a special where, for that level of spend, they had 0% interest for 24 months.

So I spent it--- and promptly put the card away, and won't bring it out again until I've paid it off. I'm sure they're able to keep track of different purchases that are purchased under different terms--- regular spend, plus the 0% interest if paid in full in six months coupons I'm suddenly getting in the mail-- but I've heard enough horror stories that I'm not going to risk it. :) I already had to tell them, "Excuse me, why is this showing as zero interest for 6 months, when I qualified for the 24-month term?" And they were all, "Oh, I'm so sorry, let me fix that for you..." :)

Home Depot is one of my favorites. Did have once when the purchase went through as two separate items, so didn’t qualify for 24 months, but I just asked at the service counter, she made a quick phone call straightened it out. Their website used to have lots of trouble, they go through Citibank in my area. Now, last two years maybe, it’s been super!

I have had trouble with one store card (login site was terrible) and with a couple of banks, but, mostly very good.

I too have played this game for years.

I also let the balances ride.

I've done some comparison math. I had a note for 10% for five years once. It cost me an additional 10,000 grand on a 25,000 note. Didn't like it at the time. But now I look at some of my 6 and 7 percent loans that ran 15 years. The 10% was the better deal in the end.

I put one 35,000 shack on a credit card. 2.99% for the life of the loan. I kept that card for years with a balance.

I think the biggest CC purchase was a few cards together to buy a 65,000 shack. Those cards I carried for a year or so until the seasoning of the new purchase was ready. Then a 15 year mortgage was secured.

On a whole, I have come out way ahead using cards even though I've kept balances. In fact, I would go so far as to say I would not be where I am now had I not used them.

But I'm done...

I want to pay off anything left and simply use cash going forward. Credit cards got me to where I am, and I no longer need them.

I'm going to get rid of all banks little by little from here forward.

* Card companies buy each other. If one card buys another and makes you an offer to merge them both...don't. No help to you. They will allow you to transfer credit from one to the other. This too is helpful.

* Interest is not necessarily deductible if you commingle purchases.

* Credit is used until better credit is available to you. Eventually credit is altogether not needed. Enjoy the journey

I used some zero interest cards to fiance the remodeling of some recent purchased apart properties back in 1997-1998. Soon as the promotion period was over, the cards used went from zero to 19.99%. I did some transfers and paid them off quickly.

Zero interest credit cards are for folks who like to step over dollars to pick up nickles.

There is time and work involved: keep track of balances and due dates. Miss by one day, and the interest and/or fees kick in.

But this is the day and age of computers and cell phones with calendars and reminders. What could cause you to miss a due date?

Illness? Family emergency? Injury? Getting too busy?

Nah, none of that stuff ever happens.... (*grins)

Sure, it is possible to play the game and come out ahead. I know some folks who have done it. In the end, it's small beer... Pennies saved/earned on massive amounts of spending. Is it possible any overspending occurs? Certainly. Credit card users will deny it. "I only charge stuff on my card I would buy anyway." Uh-huh.

Even in a best case scenario, you're "earning/saving" a few percent/dollars. In exchange for what, exactly? Setting up multiple time bombs that could blow up in the future? Not worth it to me. Maybe for some it works and their crystal ball is clear about everything that will happen in the future. Mine is murky. *shrugs

For every transaction, there is a cost. They day you don't believe that you willfully obscure reality. The trick is learning what you're trading for 0% interest. I've given a few thoughts...there are more.

Sid,

Plenty, thanks for your observations.

I like to think of myself as financially savvy, and yet I still don't mess with 0% credit cards or any credit cards, for that matter. I'm not a fan of borrowing money to invest in real estate either.

Look, I get it. I've studied borrowing money in depth. I've heard all the arguments and reasons, and they haven't changed. It's not for me. I used to be more vocal about it, but most folks don't seem interested in discussing debt-free real estate investing, so I've switched to simply encouraging folks to be honest and realistic about what they are doing. 0% credit cards sounds great..."free money", right?

To borrow your term, I do not think that is a savvy way to look at the whole picture of what is going on.

Credit card companies know us better than we know ourselves. They spend hundreds of millions yearly to track and understand our spending behaviors. They know about the folks who pay no fees, no interest, and using 0% interest while racking up points and perks. They are not fools.

And yet some folks claim they have figured out how to trick these companies and are getting something for nothing... How funny is that!

If a person is wise they will figure out what they are really trading in exchange for 0% interest, perks, miles, etc. If a person has done a full, accurate, and honest analysis and still finds the trade acceptable, then that's their decision. But to claim they're getting something for nothing is incorrect.

Someone once said: "There's no such thing as free lunch." You like lunch, if I recall correctly. I figure that saying is right up your alley. (*grins) How does that concept apply to free money/perks?

J - yes, it makes sense. Pay off or transfer before term ends or you'll be in hell, as you already realize. Look at NerdWallet to find a card.

The issuers do not get tired of you, they want to trap you into paying interest.....you'll get more and more offers. Warning: you will not be able to transfer "internally" from one card to another, so if you have a Chase card w/ balance and you want to transfer to another Chase card with a fresh offer, not going to happen.

We did a variation; "spend $3000 in first 3 months, get $500 free" cards x4 on big expenses for a beater house. Paid them off immediately, got $2000 of flooring for about two hours of work. Worth it? It was for us.

Consider the HELOC route soon, ok? They are a brief PITA to set up, but it really does pay to buddy up with a couple local banks and get to know your banker. We go this route now when we need to borrow.

Not using debt can have a huge opportunity cost as well. The key, as you noted J, is to use it wisely.

Lots of things can be a trap, Sid. For instance, religious organizations have been forever filled with charlatans. As landlords, we often hear from fellow landlords, when an applicant says have a blest day, that the applicant is trying to ply us with beneficial religious blessings, in exchange for overlooking their shortcomings. Lots of examples in the news where followers of those organizations are duped. Doesn’t mean I am going to preach that one should avoid all religion. Just that one needs to be aware.

J, another thing I have done with credit cards, to make it easier to organize the payment- change the Due Date. . Most banks let you do it on the login site, a slim few required a phone call, or a chat session.

I have all of mine due before a certain date in the month, so after that date, I can do one last check, make sure everything is paid. I pay minimum payments as soon as I can, rather than waiting till the due date. Just my preference, not saying anyone else must do things that way.

Helps me feel more comfortable paying a big chunk on the cards I am quickly paying off, knowing nothing was missed.

I love this subject. I sit for hours with my calculators.

Two examples...as close to the same dollar amount as I could get.

One loan was via credit card...balance ran for 5 years.

borrowed 25,000 paid back $34,701.09 (72% is princ)

Vs.

borrowed $37,200 will pay back $60,054.60 ( 62% is princ)

15year fixed.

(This loan has less than two years to go).

Both shacks were bought in roughly the same time.

The first shack was paid off in five years on credit card balances. The next 8 years were free and clear.

The second shack is still in debt with the 15year loan.

It would of been cheaper to put the second on credit cards too.

Thanks again. I realize you have to be pretty organized to do this and stay on top of things. The CC companies are betting on people getting sloppy. I don't want to do this as a way of life, just a few years until I sell another rental and then pay it off with the proceeds.

I'm going to look into whether Lowe's has one of these 0% deals too. I'm probably going to be buying some more of their off the shelf cabinets over the next few months.

I’ve played that game. Trying desperately not to any longer.

I use my points card like crazy, but pay it off in full each month.

Last year, while doing construction, I made sure to pay off each month, I was glad we had so many cards, though l. At one point I had maxed out 3 of them. Just until I could make a payment online, but it definitely happened.

I’m looking forward to doing more new construction next year and I’ll likely look into a new card or two at that point.

Smokowna-- "One loan was via credit card...balance ran for 5 years.

borrowed 25,000 paid back $34,701.09 (72% is princ) vs. Borrowed $37,200 will pay back $60,054.60 ( 62% is princ) 15year fixed."

J,

This is a simple example of how debt is controlling you. Break free.

The zero interest offers are a carefully laid trap waiting to spring. The credit companies are smart. They KNOW and COUNT ON most people missing the deadline. Those folks are thrown into 18-28% interest, RETROACTIVE to the date of the "zero %" purchase. Read the fine print.

Savvy? No.

Games tilted in the company's favor? Yes.

BRAD

Well, I'm pretty good at keeping track of things and getting them done on time.

Most cards aren’t retroactive to the beginning of the debt when the zero interest expires. Store cards generally are retroactive, but don’t always have high interest.

Many of the credit companies go way out of their way to make sure the card user knows the rate expires. Big, bold, red notes right up front, saying, this zero percent interest rates will expire soon, then the date of expiration, the rate the card will go to.

This seems to be a newer feature, few did this years ago, that I noticed. So, maybe some things have changed.

Using, or not using credit is simply a means to an end. Personal experiences vary, just like anything. Heck, don’t a lot of us, especially us women, have family and friends that told us rentals were a sucker’s bet? A bad idea? A losing proposition? Oh, and we shouldn’t be in ‘those’ areas alone ? (Saw that one on this forum recently!)

Others have an irrational fear, or a past history of inability to manage debt. I have an irrational fear of heights, yet I don’t preach to others to stay off of roofs. But, if I went on the roof, chances of a terrible fall are great because I usually am near frozen in fear at any heights. That’s how I see this perennial debate over debt. Fine/ good idea for some, very bad idea for others. Landlord, know thyself.

Saying note to use them because MOST PEOPLE end up paying interest in a group like this makes no sense to me. MOST PEOPLE aren't landlords like us. MOST PEOPLE are not "financially savvy" as mentioned above. MOST PEOPLE do not invest in real estate because they are afraid it is also a "laid trap waiting to spring." MOST PEOPLE can't come up with like $400 as shown in yet another post by Brad recently. MOST PEOPLE are not like most of us here. Clearly, as real estate investors and landlords, we think differently about money. We are different than "most people."

Therefore, going "Credit Card companies are smart -- they will get you!!!" just doesn't make sense.

The reality is that credit card companies make money because the vast majority -- i.e. "MOST PEOPLE" -- will NOT pay them off in time (be it monthly for those of us just going for points -- or be it before the 0% expires for those doing more complex things long-term). THAT is how they make their money.

But there are a small percentage of people that can pull it off. That CAN "get something for nothing" with a bit of planning and thinking ahead and self control.

Which is EXACTLY the same thing that landlords tend to have.

Stop grouping the people here into the "credit card companies know you better than you know yourselves" crowd. There are a percentage of people that know what they are doing when it comes to credit cards -- and I think landlords like us are much more likely to be in that group.

Otherwise, you sound like any of the people basically going "Don't invest in real estate -- the banks know you better than you do and it's just a trap waiting to spring!" Again, we're NOT in that group.

- John...

Typo. I meant "Saying NOT to use them..." in that very first sentence. Sorry.

I love the HD 0% interest offers, I use them for windows and appliances all the time.

I've used 0-3 percent offers many times for pieces of equipment. Works fine, as long as you are disciplined in your payments (I am).

That being said... I never really liked having more than one at a time of these.

My CC loan of five years turned out to be 9%.

The fifteen year fixed was 6%. It still has 18 payments remaining so there was no early pay off. This is a loan that will run its full coarse.

Currently my credit cards would be 12 and 13 percent. There is one which would be 20 percent. I don't believe I have one that would be 29 percent and if I did, I could only use something like that for months..not years.

Some more about loans.. Years ago we spoke about HELOCs here. I had one which after ten years expired. It needed to be refinanced or it would go into a repayment period. In my case it locked in at 5.2% and went into a ten year amortization. That is a very difficult payment.

Watch your HELOC loans as well.

I'll also mention that I've never paid any fees or interest on credit cards in the past 10+ years -- but in the past 5 years, my wife and I have flown for free a total of 18 times now. And stayed in countless hotels for free. And we STILL have over 200,000 Southwest miles and about 500,000 worth of various hotel points available. All because of good use of credit card offers... :)

That includes free trips and hotel stays to the Bahamas (twice -- including free access to Atlantis), Aruba (twice), and then a bunch of US-based locations.

- John...

Charlie, They postponed the St Patrick's Day parade in Washington DC....too costly to get the permits.

So up the coast I'll go. I'll wave when passing New Haven!