Pay or Quit problem (by Triplexer [IL]) Feb 15, 2019 9:23 AM|
Pay or Quit problem (by Moshe [CA]) Feb 15, 2019 10:43 AM
Pay or Quit problem (by CGB [MI]) Feb 15, 2019 11:07 AM
Pay or Quit problem (by plenty [MO]) Feb 15, 2019 2:08 PM
Pay or Quit problem (by Vee [OH]) Feb 15, 2019 3:19 PM
Pay or Quit problem (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Feb 15, 2019 8:35 PM
Pay or Quit problem (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Feb 15, 2019 8:40 PM
Pay or Quit problem (by Blue [IL]) Feb 16, 2019 4:50 AM
Pay or Quit problem (by JB [OR]) Feb 16, 2019 10:35 AM
Pay or Quit problem (by Lynx [GA]) Feb 16, 2019 2:05 PM
Pay or Quit problem (by Triplexer [IL]) Feb 19, 2019 6:21 PM
Pay or Quit problem (by plenty [MO]) Feb 19, 2019 7:57 PM
Pay or Quit problem (by Blue [IL]) Feb 22, 2019 9:11 AM
Pay or Quit problem (by Busy [WI]) Feb 22, 2019 1:55 PM
Pay or Quit problem (by CGB [MI]) Feb 23, 2019 4:01 AM
Pay or Quit problem (by JB [OR]) Feb 23, 2019 9:46 AM
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Pay or Quit problem (by Triplexer [IL]) Posted on: Feb 15, 2019 9:23 AM
There is a problem with the Pay or Quit notice, that I can't seem to figure out.
Basically it says: Rent must be paid or the tenant must give up possession of the apartment, in 5 days. Assumedly, move out.
Legally, at least in Illinois... you can apply their deposit toward the remaining rent for the rest of the month. Though you do NOT want to tell them that, otherwise they'll trash the place on their way out--- not expecting any of their deposit coming back. A tenant who already knows they have no deposit, is potentially a very bad tenant.
But still, applying the deposit toward remaining rent IS a big deal- because vacancy cost money. Especially for small landlords having to clean up, do repairs, adverstise, find and sign on replacement tenants- no guarantee on how long that will take.
Our current policy, yes I know needs revised, goes something like this:
* Rent due on the 1st
* 5 Day Notice mailed on the 7th
* If still no payment, 3 Day Pay or Quit posted on residence on the 12th
In the meantime texting the tenant, reminding them of rent due, and what is next. Yes, I text... because I believe sometimes warning of things about to be done can be motivation to pay as much as doing it.
Its been somewhat effective so far. Except that- and maybe you already saw this coming- I have two tenants who regularly go up to the bitter end every month. So, I spend half a month every month fighting to get them to pay. They do pay the late fees- but, since I never know if they WILL pay up till then, it isn't worth the hassle imo.
And here's the real problem.
By the time we get to the Pay or Quit notice expiring, the tenant has basically had half a month rent-free. And they're getting all too familiar with the process and how it all works.
What is to stop tenants from simply not paying on any month they plan to walk out on their lease.
In other words.... they hold out until the Pay or Quit notice, and then move on the 15th. So- at least in their mind- they're dodging the remainder of their lease and leaving whenever they want- expecting to get their deposit back, and getting 2 weeks free room and board as a sendoff to their new place, to boot.
Does this make sense?
Pay or Quit problem (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Feb 15, 2019 10:43 AM
Again, check your state law carefully.
CA has revised its legal view of residential leases to make them liable under contract law, rather than the old system of property law.
Under contract law, the defaulting party is responsible for all damages in the amount by which the injured party has suffered as a result of defaulting parties failure to comply with his obligations under the agreement. Under property law, damages are limited to specific damages specified in the law.
Many states besides CA have made this revision. Check your state.
Pay or Quit problem (by CGB [MI]) Posted on: Feb 15, 2019 11:07 AM
I do not know Illinois law so I will defer to your expertise. You need to send the pay or quit notice as soon as is acceptable under Illinois law. If Tenants keep using the 2 weeks as a buffer, and pay the late fees, but pay in full, you could add a clause to your lease that eviction will begin after the third pay or quit notice has been issued. Then of course, you have to follow your lease. --50.77.xxx.xxx
Pay or Quit problem (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Feb 15, 2019 2:08 PM
i have changed my lease NOT TO HAVE A GRACE PERIOD. Rent due on the 1st, not paid on the 2nd then a late fee applies. NOT paid on the 2nd then five day pay or quit. So yes, what you are saying is true, if tenant plays some game with the dates they can buy themselves times and almost force you to apply monies from deposit towards rent, it can eat it all up. As others have written, know your state laws and run your business, that is all you can do. You can't make the tenant do anything else. Work your lease, terms and dates. --173.108.xx.xx
Pay or Quit problem (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Feb 15, 2019 3:19 PM
I urge you to study your local and state tenant rules, in 5 states I have operated in the deposit is not to be accessed unit the unit goes back to the manager or owner, so you would file the eviction paperwork and let the court train the tenant when you cannot, i have not operated in Illinois.
Pay or Quit problem (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Feb 15, 2019 8:35 PM
Why are you waiting so long?
The only person responsible for these late payers is the LL in the mirror.
We get what we allow. Stop allowing.
They know nothing will happen.
Like plenty said, send everyone a letter that starting (30 days from today) the grace period has been eliminated, rent is due on the due date.
Check your laws - in Indiana I can file THE DAY IT'S LATE, e.g. the 2nd of the month.
Biggie: Your slow payers are SHOWING you they cannot come up with a whole month of rent at once. At the FIRST sign of trouble, when they say "Can you work with me?" we say Yes you are now on weekly PayDayRent and they say THANK YOU!
Small chunks for them, more income for you, and a side benefit - when they lose a job, split, etc you see the effect that week, not the next month, and can take action immediately to protect business.
Yes, late payers lull the LL into a stupor thinking he/she will be paid. They get later each month because YOU LET THEM and eventually they leave owing more than a month's rent. "Why pay this LL when I can start fresh over there?"
Stats show most renters do not expect a deposit refund and consider it "spent money", a cost of renting.
My 42 years of experience is they leave double the rent in damages. Owe $1000 in rent and $2000 in repairs = $3000.
ZERO TOLERANCE WORKS! I just helped a fellow LL with 18 late payers in Jan. She nervously sent my 3 day text. 16 paid within the 3 days. 1 paid after she filed. The last one left - he was leaving anyway just never told her.
'Reminder: Your rent in not paid. This is your only notice to pay or vacate within 3 days to avoid sheriff evcition. Pls reply wen paid or out.'
Pay or Quit problem (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Feb 15, 2019 8:40 PM
Do a little research on these late payers. Check
-court records for crime and jusgments that came AFTER you signed with them
-utilities. Might be off since ______ using buckets.
-In Home Visit. You will probably be shocked at your home. Good motivation to get them out. Sloppy payers are usually sloppy housekeepers with extra people and pitbulls.
If I sound cranky it's because we USED TO let people pay late, then I eventually lost money. The MOMENT I stopped allowing it stress left my business. It's simple, pay to stay or leave. All your other residents and millions of renters nationwide are fine with this.
Pay or Quit problem (by Blue [IL]) Posted on: Feb 16, 2019 4:50 AM
Yes youíre giving them too much time.
I donít understand the five days then the three day?? There is no three day pay or quit in Illinois.
You can do one of two things: you can send them paper that they waive the Five day notice (I donít suggest this judges donít like it). Or, change your grace period, And then up late fees. Are used to have a $25 late fee. I had a tenant that just work to that into their budget. So they would Get the five day wait till the day before it expired and then pay. We played this little game for about six months. I got tired of chasing them.
So I gave them 30 notice that we were modifying the terms of the lease. I changed their three day grace to one, and I upped the late fees from $25 a month to $25 plus $10 a day. Now it was painful for them to wait and pay their rent.
Since then I have also added to my lease that If more than to five day notices In 12 mo time, I will cancel your lease w ith 30 days notice.
Pay or Quit problem (by JB [OR]) Posted on: Feb 16, 2019 10:35 AM
Other than some of the good advice that has already been posted here my suggestion would be to increase the deposits for some added protections in the event of move outs owing rent. --24.20.xxx.xxx
Pay or Quit problem (by Lynx [GA]) Posted on: Feb 16, 2019 2:05 PM
One more thing, and it seems to work ok. Since the late-paying tennant is generally a greater headache, I have chosen to raise their rent a little more or a little more frequently, for extra compensation or, alternatively, to nudge them out. They usually stay, but follow their same habits. But I make more money for my extra trouble. I usually don't do this until I really don't care whether they go or stay. Not a final solution, but a more money solution. --99.122.xx.xxx
Pay or Quit problem (by Triplexer [IL]) Posted on: Feb 19, 2019 6:21 PM
Yes. from what I understand in Illinois you can post a 5 Day Pay or Quit notice on their door the day they are late.
>>Youíre giving them too much time. There is no three day Pay or Quit in Illinois>>
The reason that I posted a 3 Day Pay or Quit on her door was because I had already sent a 5 Day letter demanding payment.
I was aware in my State you need to give them a written 5 day notice, sent certified mail or hand delivered, stating rent due before any further legal action can be taken.
This I have been doing and was done.
This was effective for about a year- except for the fact that two of the three tenants always paid on the last day of the notice. It was inevitable, however, that the boundaries would be tested.
Since I had already given required 5 days tenant notice, another 5 day notice was not necessary- so it was shortened to a follow-up weekend Pay or Quit notice. Obviously, the idea is to give them time to react, gather the money and get to the bank, but not wait too long.
Shorten this, you say? All I can really do is cut out the Five Day Notices entirely, and just send the Five Day Pay or Quits at the get-go.
My concern however, is that then that you're continually threatening the tenant, month after month, saying pay up or hit the street. I know emotions can run high the moment "get out" starts being said- especially renters with children, etc.
I felt an official notice saying rent is due first, might avoid that monthly drama.
At any rate, its been a year and this was the first time I've ever gotten to a Pay or Quit with someone, just texting them it was coming had been effective till now.
However, tenant who got the Pay or Quit has now told me 'I'll be moving out tonight and tomorrow morning, but will still pay rent Friday'.
I'm contemplating what to do in worst case scenario- they actually refuse to leave, become a squatter AND won't pay rent.
But one thing seems certain- they will NOT pay rent after they leave... no matter what they say. I'd sooner expect pigs to fly before that happens...
Its a tough scenario when you have a renter who has paid for a year, always late but paid the late fees- is clean and causes little trouble. You want to work with them. However, we're too far into the month now its looking like the ship has sunk. And sadly, she just signed a lease renewal for another year.
In retrospect..... my comment to her on resigning: "We understand you pay late but you always pay the late fees, so we'd like you to stay." was the stupidest thing to say ever. Tenant heard that as "You can pay anytime you want, or never, your choice."
Live and learn!
Pay or Quit problem (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Feb 19, 2019 7:57 PM
Not so stupid if the lease is written that way. I took out any grace period. Pay on time cause the next day its late and cost you more. Too late to change the terms now if you've already sign another years lease with same verbiage. --99.203.xx.xxx
Pay or Quit problem (by Blue [IL]) Posted on: Feb 22, 2019 9:11 AM
"Train 'em or Trade 'em" if they won't be trained...(sounds like yours won't) This is the best time of year to get a new one.
She just signed a lease renewal...did you up the late fees or tighten your grace period?
Pay or Quit problem (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Feb 22, 2019 1:55 PM
The really good thing, Triplexer, is you are learning. I have my own tale of Ďstupid houseí, as in, I was stupid to rent to them. And, Iíll make other mistakes in the future. The price of education can be high.
Hope to see you at convention in May! --70.92.xxx.xxx
Pay or Quit problem (by CGB [MI]) Posted on: Feb 23, 2019 4:01 AM
Some posters on this forum say they have made thousands in late fees from their Tenants. While I am for capitalism and making a profit, I try to select tenants that will pay the rent on time as I want as little stress from my rentals as possible. I do not have a grace period. Rent is due by 5 PM on the first or it is late. This is stressed during the lease signing. I also have a standard late fee and an additional daily charge with a maximum fee of 10% of the rent. I also have a clause stating being late more than three times in a 12 month period is ground for eviction. This policy is stressed during lease signing so that if their financial situation changes they know the importance of paying their rent first. --67.149.xxx.xx
Pay or Quit problem (by JB [OR]) Posted on: Feb 23, 2019 9:46 AM
Oh to be in a state that doesn't require a four or five day grace period...that would be nice :) --24.20.xxx.xxx
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