Does anybody else call "boshee" on the stories that one individual on here constantly perpetuates? It's like he's writing his own soap opera! Day in and day out its these consistently outlandish stories that seem to come from fantasy land.

One story involved a tenant damaging one of his doors, so he took her car door off?

One story about him bullying the IRS and suing them because he didn't want to provide whatever documentation they requested.

One story about him killing his neighbor's dog with antifreeze because it wouldn't stop barking?

One story about how he flooded his neighbor's yard by building a run off flood wall to divert water into their yard to be petty.

How many different stories about how he's been sued? I can't keep track. But you know what, he's always the hero. Always the good guy and he never loses a single court case. Why he's sued the state of CA and won. He's sued his local jurisdictions, the IRS, you name it. He's my hero.

Most every response this individual ever writes begins with "I". "I did this, I did that" Yea yea, sure ya did bud. My hero.

I use to call them, "Bedtime Stories".

It's the only one in this group that I've picked up on. Everybody else contributes actual knowledge and experience.

The stories from you NE are always based in reality and your general frustrations from the day-to-day show through. When you tell a story, it's obvious that it isn't a "story".

Matthew. The thing is is that you never know. I have a member of my REIA who I trust. Once in a while he calls me and tells me "Wait until you hear THIS ONE!" And he'll tell me some insane story about what just happened to him with a tenant or a code guy or a maintenance issue. I absolutely believe him.

So some stories can be real, some embellished.

It's part of the reason I'll keep debating subjects on here too. Some people just accept things at face value and say "WOW!" or "Oh, I guess that's how it needs to be done" or "Well, I guess I'm doing it all wrong.".

Well, there's tons of ways of handling situations. Tenants, maintenance, internal business workings, contractors, realtors, etc..

If the idea works, WORK IT!! If the idea sounds like total nonsense and has no basis or practical application in reality, BY ALL MEANS CHALLENGE IT! Chew it up man! For your benefit and for others reading as well.

That's why I wish the posts were able to get a thumbs up or thumbs down vote. Especially for newbies that are just here and reading who don't know any better. They can get some good stuff, but man they get some fish stories too! Some of those stories could put them in a world of hurt if they don't know enough to discern fact from fiction.

You have to learn how to sift through the stories and get something useful out of them.

When anyone has been in this biz for 30-40 years the list of wacky unbelievable stories gets very long. I have TONS of

You’ll never believe this but...” stories. Only a long term LL with many properties will understand.

Add a dominate personality in crazy Cali with wacky laws and bad inspectors, and wow!

I love the posts.

Don’t believe them? Skip over them.

Thank you Brad for that . Glad to read a couple of long term landlords chime in. I love those stories, find them useful, as well as entertaining. I’d love to hear him speak at convention too.

Matthew: I know who you mean and absolutely agree with you. In fact, I got tired of it about a year ago and have been calling him out on it since then when I see them. There have been several posts now and then when I just flat out said that the story is just "too good to be true."

And it happens over and over again. Yet, some people still seem to believe it.

Brad has been through a lot of situations -- I tend to believe what he says even though he has a lot of situations. It seems reasonable.

But that other guy -- there is just no way that he's had that many issues, been "cheated" by the local government that many times, had that many incidents where he clearly ignored the law with illegal self-help stuff but never got into trouble. (It's a bit ironic that he complains all the time about how the local government is trying to screw him over -- and yet admits all the time to illegal self-help eviction crap. The fact that he's still allowed to be a LL at all is amazing if half of what he said was true.)

A few people here have said to him: "You have so many great stories! You should write a book." Um, sure, but be sure it is under fiction, not education. :)

In any case, I understand where you're coming from. Completely agree.

- John...

Oh, actually, I just realized that you may mean someone else! Maybe you mean "C". I meant "R". I guess there are a couple that give me the same "vibe" for similar reasons.

:)

- John...

Hmmm...

I start a lot of post with ‘I did... Does that mean I am self-aggrandizing, trying to brag, otherwise show my importance? Nope.

Instead, it means this is an example of something I did, and the reader can take it or leave it. Starting a post with ‘you should’ to me is a little more bullying, shaming. I try to just provide a different way of looking at things, and do know I tend to have a bragadocious personality, lots of hubris.

I would HOPE readers can disseminate information, come to their own conclusions.

I, just speaking for me, appreciate a story told without malice, told from experience, especially years of experience. I used to regularly read another forum, in fact, went back to the very inception of the forum, took a notebook full of notes, citing good ideas, recording the names, dates of the posters, so I could re-read important threads, while searching for my first property. I was developing my brand, my landlording style.

Curious thing I noticed about that forum over time. Several posters who added a lot of comments, but didn’t seem to actually have expertise, starting to take pot-shots at the posters with the big personalities, many properties, and years of experience. More and more, those posting on the forum started to use ‘clever’ terms. Newbies would start to chime in with all of their knowledge of these terms. Gradually, the posts became less and less about the nuts and bolts of tenant management, property management, and just more and more about all the clever terms.

The wizened, experienced posters began to move on. One ran for political office in his state, one focused more on writing books, another was nearing retirement age, wasn’t using the clever terms, and started to get increasingly called out for his ‘outlandish stories’ , as he wasn’t into ‘doing deals, so was spending more time on the beach.

Haven’t read anything useful on that forum in ages. Well, haven’t read that forum at all for ages. It’s mostly new poster trying to ‘do deals’ whatevertheheckthatmeans, (Rhetorical, don’t ‘splain that,) and posters who post refquently, but nothing of consequence, mostly criticizing others.

I am wondering if it’s time for me to spend less time on this forum.

It sure is interesting that not only the OP but also others have talked about "this guy" but haven't had the courage to use the name. Why not? We all know you're talking about Robert J[CA].

Anyway, now that I've "called out" that little omission...

I like others find the many stories on here entertaining, useful, outlandish, amazing, etc. Hello. Welcome to the Internet, where we can all "be whomever we want." To be honest, I think sometime we all suspect each other a bit. How do any of you know I am who I claim to be? How do you know what I do/don't do...what I own/don't own...? I could be making everything up.

EXCEPT I have met many of you in person. You know there's a real human, at least, behind S i d [MO]. Some of you have toured a few of my houses--I took my friend Mike SWMO through several of my tax lien homes. So at least THAT MUCH is real.

But some of you all I've never met. I give you the courtesy of not calling shenanigan on you, most times, even though I don't know if you're a 12-year-old sitting in Mama's basement writing this shtick in between bouts of Fortnight.

So what's my point? Let's be civil, shall we? Let's not play games either. If you don't believe something or think something that was posted is bad advice that could hurt a newbie, simply state that you wouldn't do it that way based on your experience, give your better suggestion...and then "let it go" like Elsa said.

Finally, good point RentsDue about what "doesn't get posted." Also good point from Brad about the number of weird stories from land lords who have been in the biz decades and have a ton of properties. Some of you all won't believe this, but the folks from my neck of the woods (Sisco, #22, maybe a few others?) know a certain land lord in my town who is...shall we say...less than reputable? He owns hundreds of units, and you would think the city would have shut him down by now. He's been in business longer than I have, and even though banks are finally starting to shut him down, he's gotten away with things just shy of murder. Self-help evictions, not fixing code violations, sleazy properties, etc. He's been sued in court multiple times, but keeps on going. None of his stuff gets post it here, but it happens. I've seen it first hand. I've met the guy twice in person and have heard dozens of stories from his former renters that all say the same thing, leading me to believe much of what they say is actually true. I think many of us here are by-the-book folks generally, so we find it hard to believe when someone gets away with stuff we'd never do. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen...all the time.

Believe it, or not. - Ripley

One final thought about how people "get away with things..."

First, even though we all joking refer to CA as the "left coast" and being just shy of a totalitarian socialist state, the bottom line is CA has many of the same problems other states have with matching the need for housing with private property rights and a host of other concerns.

Why would someone in CA not get shut down for someone taking actions we consider "outlandish?" Probably some of the same reasons the land lord of ill-repute I mentioned in my last post doesn't get shut down. Even though my local guy is the classic definition of a slum lord, the city recognizes that they'd send massive shock waves thru the city if they closed him down over night. Other property owners would call and complain about violation of his "rights" because they'd fear for their own rights. Slum properties being shut down means slum tenants get thrown on the streets of our town when we're already facing a sizable homeless population issue. People in positions of power own some properties that aren't up to standard either and could be targeted by angry former owners that were shut down.

There are dozens of reasons why someone could get away tiptoeing on the edge of the law and even stepping over it. Probably two of the biggest reasons are the folks who are the party with standing rarely complain about it because they lack the motivation or resources to take it to court, and also even if it does go to court and the LL loses, what's the real cost and impact of having one violation if the other 99 instances go by with no problem?

Inertia is a powerful force and Govt often lacks the willpower or manpower to overcome it, even in a "hyper liberal" state like CA. If you look at the history of our country, countless fortunes were made by people who are bolder than average. Much of the Western US was settle by squatters illegally who finally got their property rights recognized decades later. It's part of the American spirit, for good or bad, to act boldly now and beg for forgiveness later when/if necessary. Look at movies like "Wolf of Wall Street" and "The Big Short" if you need more examples of larger-than-life personalities who made fortunes and receive few, if any, significant negative consequences. I'm not saying that's the way I'm going to do things: but it's the way some people do things and never get stopped.

So....belief is not necessary for the outlandish to be true. ;-)

My reading of the landlords here is that they are smart, thoughtful, and careful. Most of the posters know their business. If they are beginners, they are asking thoughtful questions.

Anyone who has been in this business long enough has a bunch of great stories.

If you are reading Robert J[CA]'s accounts as happening today, I don't think that many of them could happen today. However, could they have happened 20 or 30 years ago? Very possibly.

Oregon Woodsmoke: But that's the problem -- we get a lot of newbies here that do NOT have the experience as LLs or as members here to know "if a story is unlikely." It would be wrong to "assume that everyone here as the good judgement" to know that.

In any case, I agree that LOTS of LLs here have a LOT of experience and a LOT of great stories from the past. But all of those that I've heard seem realistic.

His stories are way beyond that. He has a story for EVERY situation. And he's cheated the law so many times (and yet still complaints about the government coming down on him constantly like he doesn't deserve it).

Yes, most of us can likely tell the difference -- because we've been here a while and know about him. But I still worry about newbies coming here, asking a question, and getting a "I kicked in the door" or "I sued everybody!" answer. So, I hope we continue to guide those newbies away from those sorts of answers...

- John...

I love his stories. Doesn't mean I believe 'em. On the off-chance they are all true, I'd love to meet and hang out with that crazy guy. But,Robert please don't stop writin' them! They serve as a reminder that there is more than one way to approach things.

John, come on down here for a minute and let's have a beer, shall we?

I already covered what to do with newbies: K.I.S.S. "This approach wouldn't work based on my experience...here's how I would do it..."

We can disagree and be civil. No need to "call someone out". I think at some level that's disrespectful of your audience's intelligence to assume they are fools and believe everything they read.

Plus, unless Jeffrey decides to start micro-managing content on this board, there will always be some "out there" stories. Part of being a successful land lord is learning the process of self-discernment, and if a person is foolish enough to believe that kicking in doors is okay, they're going to have more problems than you, I, or anyone else here can ever hope to help them deal with regardless of how many warnings we put out. I'm not up to policing the content 24/7 anyway, so whose to say it won't slip in elsewhere....don't we all have other stuff to do?

Sid: I don't drink, but would happily hang out and talk sometime! :)

Maybe you took what I meant incorrectly. When I say "Call him out", I simply mean that if a newbie asks a question and he replies with a "Well, I pulled the door off" sort of answer, then I have no problem replying and telling the newbie that asked the question that that is a bad idea, is illegal, and probably never happened anyhow.

And then telling them how I would do it instead, as you said.

I don't think that is being uncivil. But, we can agree to disagree if you'd like. I happen to personally think that it is often "necessary" or at least "beneficial" to warn people that someone's stories of how they handled it may not be fully accurate. :)

- John...

Also, the "kicking in doors" is the extreme example that we're going to. The reality is that a LOT of his stories are more "in between" where it wouldn't be that obvious to a newbie that they are being "embellished" (at a minimum).

So, yes, even a new LL should know enough that "I just removed their front door -- problem solved!" isn't a reasonable answer. But, often, it is much more subtle than that when it comes to that poster.

It is those cases where I think it is best for someone to say something about it not being that realistic or probably accurate.

That's not being uncivil. That's providing additional information to whoever asked the question and might be getting the wrong impression from the "embellished" answer.

- John...

Interesting thread!

-I believe the his stories. If you've been around long enough you know how things have changed. We USED TO be able to set the deadbeat on the street. Not any more.

-His stories encourage me. He's a take charge kinda guy.

-Would I do the same stuff? No because I have a different set of problems and a very different style that suits my personality... and I don't have a bullet proof vest!

-Newbies should read all these stories and realize that residents do crazy stuff and inspectors can mess with you.

-I enjoy reading how others handle their business and the challenges in their area. I cherry pick ideas.

-I've been sued many times by evictees. It's part of the biz.

-I'd LOVE to sue the city but don't have the time or what the expense. City people come and go so just wait until that angry govt employee gets fired or retires, or is not re-elected.

-Like WMH and others posted, I don't tell everything. I don't want some hot shot atty or IRS agent to read my posts and use them as evidence against me.

-From the WELCOME page: "A FEW FORUM RULES. No offensive language or personal attacks on others."

Read, learn, grab whatever ideas you like, and run a good business.

BRAD

Brad: Most of his stories aren't even about residents. Most of them are about how the government is out to get him, how he's been sued for everything, how he's sued the government for everything, and so on.

At one point, in an argument with Moshe if I recall correctly, I think he even mentioned something going to the Federal Supreme Court? Um, ok...

If you honestly "believe his stories" fully, then that is concerning to me. Even those that seem to support him above in this thread admit that he must be at least "embellishing" quite a bit.

As for the forum rules... Saying that you don't believe that everything someone says is accurate or true is NOT a "personal attack" IMO. I don't think anyone is violating any forum rules by questioning someone's "stories."

- John...

As someone already said,It is well nigh impossible to relate a story if you haven’t experienced it.So as far as I’m concerned everything he says is true.Good man Robert .Ta me an seo............ Charlie............ You

In the navy there is a fine difference between a Fairy Tale and a Sea Story.

One starts out.....Once upon a time. The other starts out....on my last ship. After the initial beginning, the story is the same. The story isn't as important as the lessons learned from that journey.

Having started out investing out in SoCal, I am inclined to believe much of what he has said. Could he be embellishing? Perhaps. Then again, I bought a place and got title insurance on it only to get sued for $511,000. Strange Things can happen.

Calie investors tend to be more creative than Midwestern investors out of necessity. The properties simply just don't cash flow like the mid west without creative genius. There is risk with creativity.

NE: There is a huge difference between a vet euthanizing an animal that is sick to relieve it of pain or suffering -- and killing a dog with antifreeze (which is a long, torturous, painful death for the animal).

Completely agree with Jen.

I HOPE that all of those stories aren't true. Because if the one about killing the dog IS true, then he's evil. Period. People that don't understand the suffering of animals tend to be psychopathic tendencies, at least. They lack empathy. That's a serious character flaw, at a minimum.

- John...

NE, I had a serious squirrel infestation in a garage where I was storing some building materials.

Then, at a different property, that neighborhood was being over-run with rats. My tenant is very clean, but they were in neighborhood, especially junky house next door. Now, I am not one to use chemicals, much prefer a snap trap or a ‘plinker’ for a quick death, but things were getting very bad, plinkers not allowed in city. So, I bought the bait boxes, and a big box of bait.

Oops- bought more bait than I needed, so I put the nice cardboard box of bait in my storage garage. ....cardboard makes nice nesting material for squirrels.... squirrels get hungry... it’s snowing outside... hmmm...this stuff in this box tastes good.

And, best part, the squirrels had set up domicile in a big cardboard box furnace filters. Easy to dispose when the garage started to smell like death.