SEO & CEO shot
Click here for Top Ten Discussions. CLICK HERE for Q & A Homepage
Receive Free Rental Owner Updates Email:  
MrLandlord Q & A
SEO & CEO shot (by NE [PA]) Nov 27, 2018 2:38 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by NE [PA]) Nov 27, 2018 2:44 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by NE [PA]) Nov 27, 2018 2:51 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by GKARL [PA]) Nov 27, 2018 2:53 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by Smokowna [MD]) Nov 27, 2018 2:54 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by Smokowna [MD]) Nov 27, 2018 2:59 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by NE [PA]) Nov 27, 2018 3:01 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by NE [PA]) Nov 27, 2018 3:06 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by Smokowna [MD]) Nov 27, 2018 3:12 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by Richard [MI]) Nov 27, 2018 3:34 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by 6x6 [TN]) Nov 27, 2018 3:35 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by RB [MI]) Nov 27, 2018 3:37 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by Ken [NY]) Nov 27, 2018 3:38 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by Frank [NJ]) Nov 27, 2018 3:45 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by Jeff [CO]) Nov 27, 2018 3:59 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by NE [PA]) Nov 27, 2018 4:07 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by Tom [FL]) Nov 27, 2018 5:50 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by Opinionated [NC]) Nov 27, 2018 5:53 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by ntj [GA]) Nov 27, 2018 6:26 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by MikeA [TX]) Nov 27, 2018 6:38 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by moby [IN]) Nov 27, 2018 7:22 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by RathdrumGal [ID]) Nov 27, 2018 10:11 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by Joe [CA]) Nov 27, 2018 11:15 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by nhsailmaker [NH]) Nov 28, 2018 5:17 AM
       SEO & CEO shot (by NE [PA]) Nov 28, 2018 5:18 AM
       SEO & CEO shot (by Wilma [PA]) Nov 28, 2018 10:28 AM
       SEO & CEO shot (by melinda [MD]) Nov 28, 2018 10:29 AM
       SEO & CEO shot (by Chris [CT]) Nov 28, 2018 1:17 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by #22 [MO]) Nov 28, 2018 1:45 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by Lynda [TX]) Nov 28, 2018 4:10 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by NE [PA]) Nov 28, 2018 4:17 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by George [NJ]) Nov 29, 2018 3:58 AM
       SEO & CEO shot (by Chris [CT]) Nov 29, 2018 9:44 AM
       SEO & CEO shot (by Busy [WI]) Nov 29, 2018 12:59 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Nov 30, 2018 6:02 PM
       SEO & CEO shot (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Nov 30, 2018 6:04 PM

SEO & CEO shot (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 2:38 PM

In Monroe county Pa today, a code enforcement office was shot dead at a township building. The trigger man was an older man in his 70's. Right or wrong here and as hard as it is to stomach for some folks, I'm sure this is more than just a "bad guy with a gun" story. This same county several years ago had 3 township supervisors shot dead at. a council meeting. The person that did it then was harassed for many years.

I am not condoning these actions. As unsettling as it may be, our forefathers found it very important for the citizens of The United States to keep control over their government. My guess is that these codes people pushed the wrong buttons way too many times.

It's really a warning and concern for both sides.

This is why I don't pull permits and don't tell anyone what I'm doing to my buildings. I don't invite them to the party. Stay away from them at all costs and you'll be better off. Crazy world.

SEO & CEO shot (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 2:44 PM

I should add that I am sure the media will push these people as crazed lunatic's, but the fact of the matter is, is that sometimes people get pushed to the limits. The original shooter in the previous case from what I know of the story, was an old poor man who all he had was the little bit of land that he had lived on for years and years and years and the township was harassing him over something. I think that it got to the point that they were going to take it from him under some laws, Possibly PA blight laws.

I guess the moral of the story for folks like us, is to just stay as far away from those people as you can. They are not your friends, they are not the good guys. Anybody that makes laws or what you can and can't do with your land, especially your own personal residence is not on your side.

SEO & CEO shot (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 2:51 PM

Also, before people totally explode on me for what I posted, please understand that I'm not saying that violence is the answer. All I'm saying is that sometimes violence is all the people have left.

If these two individuals were truly pushed to the edge to where the townships were taking their property that they lived in, then they literally have nothing left.

We all see it posted here time and time and time again about the overregulation and the absolutely insane code enforcement officers that people have to deal with. Folks like us are used to it and know how to deal with it. For some it's too much. They say you should never rob a man of his labors.

SEO & CEO shot (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 2:53 PM

I have properties in a town where they're now trying to take pictures of properties so they can compare on inspections to make sure you added nothing. Code officials are now working on Saturday to catch people doing unpermitted work outside. If you have a fire as I did, that's an automatic code inspection. They ding you with fees and fines. Everyone complains. My property is in an urban densely populated area that's undergoing gentrification, so some of this is an effort to upgrade the housing stock. Paradise township is in the boonies. No need for that kind of thing there.

SEO & CEO shot (by Smokowna [MD]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 2:54 PM

I stay very quiet and under the radar. I agree that an older person who has been through a lot of hardships in life could easily be pushed over the edge.

A landlord in CT shot some teni back in the 80's or 90's. When we heard the news we were just sad, without knowing the story we assumed it was someone who felt pushed and taken advantage of.

SEO & CEO shot (by Smokowna [MD]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 2:59 PM

I hope people don't post against you.

Just to deflect the shots if they do, I'll add a story. My mother once surprised me with her opinion.

Mother said, that she was all for landmines. It was an inexpensive way a poor country could defend themselves against rich countries.

To me it drove home then, what you wrote today. " should never rob a man of his labors".

SEO & CEO shot (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 3:01 PM

We did a septic by the books one time and the SEO was a total #%^}>}% to us. He wouldn't answer questions and extremely rude. I got to the point where I would call SEO's in different jurisdictions to ask them questions before dealing with this guy. Now we just put the systems in and don't ask permission. :). Oops.

SEO & CEO shot (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 3:06 PM

Smoke, folks can post against me if they want. I hope to hear more about the story of what happened today. I will probably only hear what the media partitions out, but I'll be able to fill in the blanks pretty good. I'm not really surprised that it happens, what's actually surprising is that it doesn't happen more. Because some of the stuff that I've seen and heard and some of the stuff that I have read on here is just beyond what is necessary for towns and cities to operate efficiently. It goes well over into the territory of oppression.

SEO & CEO shot (by Smokowna [MD]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 3:12 PM

Some years back...but not long ago. An inspector would go around picking on homes.....typically elderly of the same race that he belonged to. (Mr.Jolly)

Then, the inspector would make numerous visits, compounding the problem for these elderly residents. Eventually the inspector would bring along his investor friend.

I believe the inspector is no longer around however he got nothing more than a punch to the mouth. Shame on the county who allowed it.

SEO & CEO shot (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 3:34 PM

NE-- You got that right.

I like to do things like you when the situation calls for it.

I do have one advantage over some people in that my family moved around a lot when I was young. This led me to a mindset where no house means much to me. They are just houses. I'm not in love with them or even attached. So when I run into a person or city where those kind of control freaks are in charge,or where the neighborhood goes bad, I just sell whatever's there and move on. I don't need the hassle. There's always other deals and other houses.

Especially after the crash of 2007-8, a lot of cities were short of operating cash and decided to boost revenue with extra code enforcement fines. Or writing tickets via a speed trap. Once I saw this, I just sold and moved my investment elsewhere and would do it again anytime I felt it necessary.

Now, I do understand that many people, especially like those you mentioned, love where they are and don t want to move. I can easily see where if they are pushed too far, they erupt.

I don't agree with what they do, but I do understand it.

SEO & CEO shot (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 3:35 PM

I guess it is revenue for the county or town if they can fine you or take your property.

SEO & CEO shot (by RB [MI]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 3:37 PM

A Mans home used to be his Castle. ( Castle Law )


SEO & CEO shot (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 3:38 PM

I am surprised it doesn't happen more often.Of all govt officials I deal with building inspectors are the biggest bullies I deal with.

SEO & CEO shot (by Frank [NJ]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 3:45 PM

Some years back we were given a summons and had to go to court [local] to answer for it. Summons was that we did not have permit for a yard sale.

Had the sale on the weekend, a day got rained out and we took it into the next, which happened to be the Columbus Day Holiday. We did not choose the rain date when obtaining the initial permit.

There was a new "jar head" PO who happened to be the lap dog of a politician who did not like us.

Our case was the last of the day, just us the judge the clerk, the cop and the officer. We were guilty and judge said "that's one THOUSAND dollars!".

Not be able to contain myself I jumped up and quite loudlt said "you can't do that!" Of course he glowered at me and said "I certainly can" to which I replied "not beyond the limits of the statute, here let me give you a copy so you do not embarass yourself" and tossed it at the Prosecutor.

He turned beet red, nodded his head to the judge who quietly said "that will be 100.00.

Gotta know the law as well as the judge.

SEO & CEO shot (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 3:59 PM

Here in Denver, code enforcement types tend to be petty little tyrants. It's all about revenue generation. They will force you to do things by putting you in jail and having guys with guns show up at your door. They are lower than meter maids. --76.120.xx.xx

SEO & CEO shot (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 4:07 PM

Jeff, that proves the point I was trying to make.

SEO & CEO shot (by Tom [FL]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 5:50 PM

The over reach of zoning and the zoning rules and regs are horrible the hoops they make people jump threw and its all about control. In the case of the SEO and CEO their over reach and out of control mindset went too far. They reach into a private citizens pocket one too many times.

Read the 2nd amendment and what it actually means is MAJOR over burden and out of control government is what it pertains to...

Bigger government is not the solution IE socialism with rent control and similar issues a smaller government is the best solution.

The over reach of local, county and state in California that many times Robert J of CA mentions in many of his posts sounds obsurd to people who live in other states can not believe that a city, township or county can have such an over reach is beyond comprehension to some. HOWEVER it happens and Robert J could write a book on government over reach and an out of control government.

Over the passed few years FEMA with flood zone changes has created un-needed costs to homeowners.

DEP has an over reach that is beyond comprehension.

HOA's are a form of control unfortunately many love that kind of control plus the assessment can be high for repairs or updates and the monthly HOA fees are comparable to mortgage payments. HOA have a lot of noisey neighbors sticking their nose where they should not. I have no desire to buy a condo, townhouse or house in an HOA...

Rent Control is the worst for of control telling an owner/landlord what he or she can charge for monthly rent. FREE Market let supply and demand tae care of it. Rent Control = socialism!!!

Code enforcement gives too much power to a person who is a control freak in some cases. Many times the laws are mis-interpreted and homeowners feel trapped. Like someone said a house is not something to fall in love with it is a material thing. When that material thing a house is not working for me its time to move, its just a house. --99.56.xx.xx

SEO & CEO shot (by Opinionated [NC]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 5:53 PM

Most people will provide some sort of housing for themselves unless the government prohibits them from doing so.

Today your housing must please the "King" even if your finances can provide only something less.

SEO & CEO shot (by ntj [GA]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 6:26 PM

I think Richard(MI) has it right, don't get too attached to any property. Dave Ramsey says something like don't get attached to any house, there is one on every corner.

SEO & CEO shot (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 6:38 PM

We had an electrical inspector at the plant I retired from that was so overbearing that he got fired. Guess where he went, to the city code enforcement. Things got so bad in the city because of 4-5 of these guys that the trades folks, builders, and others started constantly barraging the city council meetings with complaints. During elections two city council members were elected based on their platform of revamping the building department.

Fast forward a year now, the 4-5 knot heads are gone.

They just hired a bunch of kids out of college with degrees that couldn't land them any other jobs. Most of them have never been around construction and so far if you can point them to what code says they will follow along. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next year or two.

SEO & CEO shot (by moby [IN]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 7:22 PM

Yeah there are bad guys out there. I like to think the get theirs eventually.

A few years ago I got a letter stating a search of property records showed that I owned rental properties and my inspections were overdue. Not really a problem for me, my properties are usually within a small repair or 2 of being compliant. A day or 2 later I got a letter from a local property manager / realtor with quite a reputation( I am witholding adjectives) offering his services. I'm sure these letters were related to each other one way or another. I was ticked at the time about the appearance of the interaction. Within a few moths the inspector was gone (to pursue of opportunities haha) and within 2 years the realtor had been in the news several more times. Google this for the latest "Logan real estate broker accused of $200,000 exploitation".

SEO & CEO shot (by RathdrumGal [ID]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 10:11 PM

Around here they just use drones to spy on your property.

SEO & CEO shot (by Joe [CA]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2018 11:15 PM

I hear what you are saying, you said it better than I could say it. That was a very well thought out post, I enjoy reading your threads.

SEO & CEO shot (by nhsailmaker [NH]) Posted on: Nov 28, 2018 5:17 AM

freedom and liberty are not passed down through the generations - they must be fought for every day.

I too am fighting flood plan designations and at each level it falls on deaf ears. One just has to keep climbing the ladder until you get results

Stupidity in Govt only explains so much. Pure evilness is bred in Govt and explains it all.

SEO & CEO shot (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Nov 28, 2018 5:18 AM

Rathdrumgal, if there was one of those flying over my backyard, it would be on the ground in pieces.

SEO & CEO shot (by Wilma [PA]) Posted on: Nov 28, 2018 10:28 AM

We tend to make anonymous phone calls to the township to check on zoning stuff (number blocked, of course). Once, when the zoning guy asked for my name and property address, and my phone "suddenly" got full of and then the call "dropped".

But the current zoning guy is actually very reasonable. His predecessor, not so much. But I know that the township uses satellite photos to look for violations.

We only pull permits for stuff that changes the exterior. New outlets or adding a faucet? Nope.

SEO & CEO shot (by melinda [MD]) Posted on: Nov 28, 2018 10:29 AM

Agree with NE and Ken. Doesn't even have to be an issue over land. Can be anything that makes a person angry. I know. Somebody assaulted me in July over something stupid. I ended up in the hospital. This was not a tenant. I am a 70 yr old retired school teacher. I do believe the best thing to do is to be as under the wire. Unfortunately, many people know me and think that they know all my business.

SEO & CEO shot (by Chris [CT]) Posted on: Nov 28, 2018 1:17 PM

Having dealt with my fair share of "officials" that are little better than third world shake down artists I cannot muster much sympathy for the two that were shot.

SEO & CEO shot (by #22 [MO]) Posted on: Nov 28, 2018 1:45 PM

Wow. Like others have said, not surprised... sad either way.... I know a crazy guy that told a code enforcement person to expect a ruby ridge if they tried to punish him or throw his family out of his house for no occupancy permit.... the city folded quickly

SEO & CEO shot (by Lynda [TX]) Posted on: Nov 28, 2018 4:10 PM

#22, what's a 'ruby ridge'? I'm not familiar with that threat.

SEO & CEO shot (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Nov 28, 2018 4:17 PM

Ruby ridge is worth a read Lynda.

SEO & CEO shot (by George [NJ]) Posted on: Nov 29, 2018 3:58 AM

As a LL & builder contractor I've run into a few tyrants parading as building inspectors, one was happily fired due to making too many waves with the wrong people. The others toned down right away as soon as you let them know that you know that they are the boss. I too don't condone violence, but can understand it.

I've heard that as many as 20% of the population suffers from some sort of mental illness either some or all of their lives, so I'm careful as much as I can be when dealing with people / tenants & applicants. Some crazy doesn't always show itself until pressure hits them, then watch out.

SEO & CEO shot (by Chris [CT]) Posted on: Nov 29, 2018 9:44 AM

Having thought about it for a day I'd like to add that I know a number of very good officials as well. Not all of them are bad, or out to get people. The vast majority are just doing their job.

SEO & CEO shot (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Nov 29, 2018 12:59 PM

As I’ve stated, I don’t mind pulling permits, as I like having a city official sign a piece of paper showing that work was done properly. And, there is a lot of shoddy work out there, so I don’t mind another pair of eyes saying it’s done right.

Having said that, there was one electrical inspector that sure was a fan of over reach. I waited to do any further electrical work on that house till I knew the inspector had retired. At least two other inspectors were more helpful than hindrance, but I hear ya. That one inspector had me ready to spit bricks.

Fortunately, my city seems to rotate inspectors through different areas. I’d heard they did that to prevent bribery potential.

SEO & CEO shot (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Nov 30, 2018 6:02 PM


I hear ya! Not disagreeing. Some are just jerks on a powerplay. We recently experienced what I would call a political harrassment. Higher ups forced the inspector to find something on me.

Also never assume your residents like you. Even the ones who SAY they like you. They may feel oppressed knowing their basic need for shelter is controlled by us. What would YOU do if someone was taking your home or kicking you out? Be the MANAGER not the OWNER.

The other side: as Jeffrey says consider the Man in the Mirror. What did we do and what CAN we do.

Renters come and go but inspectors and judges never die, so learn to get along.

Next week is our Christmas Party and all govt officials and staff are invited. It helps.

We just do what they ask so they cannot complain. That helps.

I talk with LLs all the time who do not understand or believe code and their pride won’t let them simply fix the house. They'll crab for hours about “grandfathered” and “it’s been loke that for 30 years” or “No one has ever complained or gotten hurt” before replacing a broken switchplate, fixing a cracked step, or replacing a broken sewer line.

A local LL was pounced upon by the city and whined to no end. So I drove by his properties- they were awfull! Roofs caved in, doors missing, backyards as junkyards.


SEO & CEO shot (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Nov 30, 2018 6:04 PM

PS that LL ignored repeated letters and offers from the city and made a stink when the deadlines ran out.


Subject: RE: SEO & CEO shot
Your Name:
Your State:

SEO & CEO shot
Would you like to be notified via email when somebody replies to this thread?
If so, you must include your valid email address here. Do not add your address more than once per thread/subject. By entering your email address here, you agree to receive notification from every time anyone replies to "this" thread. You will receive response notifications for up to one week following the original post. Your email address will not be visible to readers.
Email Address: