heat included
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heat included (by Ellie [WI]) Sep 7, 2017 7:58 AM
       heat included (by Vee [OH]) Sep 7, 2017 9:07 AM
       heat included (by Ellie [WI]) Sep 7, 2017 9:20 AM
       heat included (by Ken [NY]) Sep 7, 2017 9:27 AM
       heat included (by Robert J [CA]) Sep 7, 2017 11:41 AM
       heat included (by AllyM [NJ]) Sep 7, 2017 1:59 PM
       heat included (by LindaJ [NY]) Sep 7, 2017 6:46 PM
       heat included (by cjo'h [CT]) Sep 7, 2017 9:56 PM
       heat included (by Ellie [WI]) Sep 8, 2017 5:57 AM
       heat included (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Sep 8, 2017 10:02 AM
       heat included (by Robert,Ontario,Can [ON]) Sep 8, 2017 12:31 PM
       heat included (by Vee [OH]) Sep 8, 2017 6:19 PM
       heat included (by cjo'h [CT]) Sep 8, 2017 9:45 PM
       heat included (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Sep 9, 2017 8:36 AM

heat included (by Ellie [WI]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2017 7:58 AM

When do you turn on heat, when heat is included in rent? Getting cooler with Fall transition, but some tenants want heat on... rest windows open for fresh air. Last year I gave warnings will charge if windows open (charge now listed in new rental contracts) We turn on boilers on at night & off when warmer through the fall till furnace needs to be on for the winter --At that time we post all windows must be closed and will be enforced. We allow to open for fresh air no more than 5 min, that is fair and easy to monitor. But you have the ones that refuse to remember to close. Idea's on how you handle it? My understanding our state law requires a temperature of 70% to be maintained inside unit. Thank you for your thoughts. I am thinking of having them sign each time they violate and then fine on 3rd offence. --65.27.xx.xx

heat included (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2017 9:07 AM

Does your units have zone valves that operate with each thermostat? If yes then add magnet switches like security system uses to each window/door - when something is open turns off that zone, stops the waste of fuel, also at the last couple conventions I have passed out info on temp bulbs that go inside the wall under the local t-stat so the heat circuit is open when temp reaches 70, a local heating company may be able to help you with this - easier than the window switches but window switches is what commercial places use everywhere. --76.188.xxx.xx

heat included (by Ellie [WI]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2017 9:20 AM

Wonderful advise, will check with heating contractor as building is in the 1970's - I do know we have Honeywell zone valves. I tried searching on this subject and unable to find info.. what would I search under please?


heat included (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2017 9:27 AM

The last building where I paid heat was a rooming house,my rule was if I see windows open the heat won't go on,so basically they policed it themselves pretty well --24.25.xxx.xxx

heat included (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2017 11:41 AM

After the purchase of a 10 unit over a commercial store, the tenants would keep the heat cranked up with all of the windows open. $3,300 a month for heat during the summer. I was losing money on this property.

So I re-piped the gas lines and provided each tenant a new wall furnace off of their own gas meters. They had gas for their stoves. I changed all of this and provided each tenant with a demand gas water heater and wall furnace connected to their gas meters. I wasn't allowed to do this with existing tenants. But I would cut off the buildings steam boiler that provided the hot water to run the old radiators during the warm months. So if they wanted to run the heat in the summer, they could pay for it.

After everyone got trained, eventually I did keep the common boiler on standby, not able to pump out enough heat to warm a flea.

So I never ever include heat when at all possible, unless it's a Motel or a rent by the day situation. --47.156.xx.xx

heat included (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2017 1:59 PM

In NJ, as soon as the outside daytime temperature is below 68 degrees, the heat must be turned on. I think it's a good way of doing things. In other colder states it may be different. We still have a good bit of sun on the roofs heating the place up. --73.33.xxx.xxx

heat included (by LindaJ [NY]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2017 6:46 PM

You really need to check your state and local laws. Usually there is a date when you have to have heat if the outside temp falls below a certain point or you have to keep the temp inside above a certain point.


heat included (by cjo'h [CT]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2017 9:56 PM

Ellie, If at all possible never rent with heat included,even if you have to redo the utilities,when they have to pay their own power and other things ,they'll be more conservative....... ....... Charlie...................................... --174.199.x.xxx

heat included (by Ellie [WI]) Posted on: Sep 8, 2017 5:57 AM

Thank you all for your time writing back. Building is brick, build in 1970-will see what I can do at this point. I police the windows and warn a fine when open for more than 5 minutes but I think this year I will step it up and have them sign for their second warning. I do have the time for this and most are long term tenants that work with me. Yes 68% for our area. It is just frustrating in fall and spring as the temp changes so the only idea I had was to turn off the boiler in the day time. The idea by VEE(OH)may be most workable-at least I can install a larger fine if I find the zone is magnetized and window open with the heat on. That gives me something workable till the season starts when the windows need to be closed at all times. Has anyone tried fines? Would I need to resign all my newer tenants with a new contract? If they continue to be unworkable, only is one or two... I will give 30 day. What a wonderful thread to connect with fellow landlords and pool thoughts --65.27.xx.xx

heat included (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Sep 8, 2017 10:02 AM

The best option is to install a electronic boiler control system then install locking non-electric radiator thermostatic rad valves in the rental units. With a Tekmar electronic boiler control system the outside temperature can be set so on the warmer days and nights the heating does not need to come. The main difference with a conventional indoor outdoor system is the by metal will turn up the heat when the windows are open which forces the tenant to close the window. If there are copper finned converter radiator radiator cleaning out the fins with air then installing reflective tape behind the fins will heat with lower temperature. By limiting the heat there will less waste. Just turning off the heat during the warmer days and nights the cost of the electronic boiler control is paid for in less then one heating season. Insulating all the heating and hot water pipes in the boiler room is not expensive but will save energy as it not required to heat the boiler room. The locking radiator radiator valves are made Danfoss or Honeywell braukman. Most plumbing supply stores will sell or Hd supply.com --70.27.xxx.xxx

heat included (by Robert,Ontario,Can [ON]) Posted on: Sep 8, 2017 12:31 PM

Another option but upfront expensive is install high efficiency wall mounted gas boilers in each rental unit then the heat would be separated out forever. A lot of buildings are using the older type of cast iron boilers which heat very well but expensive to operate. If were using high efficiency gas boilers for heat and a indirect hot water tank the annual natural consumption would drop considerably. A high efficiency gas boiler there is sensor on the outside which limits the boiler heat output according the outside temperature. For example a indirect hot water tank has heat loss of less then one degree per hour which is much better then the 7 to 12 degree heat loss of a direct fired hot tank where the heat goes up chimney. A indirect hot water tank has immersion coil which transfer the heat from the heat of the boilers into the tank. Somewhat like a electric hot water tank. Look at upgrading the insulation and windows where the heat loss is reduced then there is less need for heat. A net zero building is so well insulated then there is no need for a heating or cooling system. --74.220.xxx.xx

heat included (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Sep 8, 2017 6:19 PM

Easier than the window switches is the bulb that you slide down the wall, only one per unit - max temp is 70, I only get the info at a heating show end of Sept. unless someone can remember the name - I have discovered some of my noodles are cracking and I can not remember every detail anymore. --76.188.xxx.xx

heat included (by cjo'h [CT]) Posted on: Sep 8, 2017 9:45 PM

Vee,It's bad when you stop remembering things.If you find out what helps ,let me know. Charlie.. ... .... ..... ...... --174.199.xx.xxx

heat included (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Sep 9, 2017 8:36 AM

Installing electronic boiler control system such a Tekmar may set you back about $800 to $1,000 dollars but over a period of time the savings in natural gas, electricity along with less and tear on the system so everything lasts longer the control is paid for. Any money spent you have to get it back then some. Right now at the apartment building the warm weather shut down turned off the heat along with heating circulation pump. Over the fall and spring that is considerable energy saving. The boilers only come on when the domestic indirect hot water tank requires heat. Have the control set for 10 degrees Celsius where now it is above that. The control can be set to any outside temperature that suits the building. The local town bylaw is 21 degrees Celsius for each rental unit. This year found it necessary to have the heat on only during the night as when it warms later the heat will be off. Usually after the middle of September heat is required during the night. --216.123.xxx.xxx

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