Replacement windows...
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Replacement windows... (by JamesD [CO]) Mar 7, 2010 7:21 AM
       Replacement windows... (by Corey [ND]) Mar 7, 2010 8:03 AM
       Replacement windows... (by bart [PA]) Mar 7, 2010 8:33 AM
       Replacement windows... (by Virden [OH]) Mar 7, 2010 9:06 AM
       Replacement windows... (by Rook [CA]) Mar 7, 2010 9:09 AM
       Replacement windows... (by Rook [CA]) Mar 7, 2010 9:10 AM
       Replacement windows... (by TxMike [TX]) Mar 7, 2010 9:27 AM
       Replacement windows... (by Jeff S [MI]) Mar 7, 2010 9:54 AM
       Replacement windows... (by NotNice [MA]) Mar 7, 2010 9:58 AM
       Replacement windows... (by Bart [MA]) Mar 7, 2010 10:37 AM
       Replacement windows... (by Smokowna [MD]) Mar 7, 2010 10:51 AM
       Replacement windows... (by AllyM [NJ]) Mar 7, 2010 12:28 PM
       Replacement windows... (by Robert J [CA]) Mar 7, 2010 1:05 PM
       Replacement windows... (by Chris [CA]) Mar 7, 2010 5:53 PM
       Replacement windows... (by nhsailmaker [NH]) Mar 8, 2010 2:11 AM
       Replacement windows... (by Steve [FL]) Mar 8, 2010 2:28 AM
       Replacement windows... (by frank [KS]) Mar 8, 2010 3:22 AM
       Replacement windows... (by NotNice [MA]) Mar 8, 2010 7:22 AM
       Replacement windows... (by billy [MA]) Mar 8, 2010 7:58 AM
       Replacement windows... (by jack [IL]) Jun 22, 2010 8:05 AM

Replacement windows... (by JamesD [CO]) Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 7:21 AM

The tenant has been complaining about the high utility bills this winter - sure enough for a 1200sqft townhome her bills are almost as high as for our house (2300+ sqft) so we're thinking of offering her the deal to replace the single pane windows with quality vinyl windows if she signs a two year lease with us (perhaps with only a slight rent increase). She's been with us for a year - always pays on time, keeps the place clean, one of her boys is in local school so she has incentive to stay.

Some questions on the windows:

1) What brand of windows is recommended - was thinking Milgard from HomeDepot or Lowes.

2) There are 6 windows and a slider patio door. I'm budgeting about $2000-2500 for all (doing labor myself) - is this realistic?

3) The building has brick facade and all the window openings are brick... does this make the window installation more difficult? Anybody done that - I've replaced windows/patio door on a wood frame house - but this seems a lot more difficult. Maybe hiring a pro would be better in this case (though naturally more expensive).

Any suggestions would be welcome.



Replacement windows... (by Corey [ND]) Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 8:03 AM

If the windows are in good condition, I would first look at having an energy audit done. Call your utility company for assistance.

You might have other areas that are loosing more heat than the windows, and would cost less to take care of. --209.243.xx.xx

Replacement windows... (by bart [PA]) Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 8:33 AM

From single pane to double pne will definately help a lot, but you might be surprised to see how little vinyl wndows even argon filled, and low e save from just alum storms.If the frames of your primaries are not leaking much (something that is usually easy to correct)

You might consider that the tenant might like the other features of plastic windows,..tilt cleaning , ezer to open etc. and the fact if you sell SOME buyers might like them a bit more,. but as it was said before, get a good energy audit and see where that heat is going. I think Hollis had some ideas on a homemade blower door that IMO works to FIND leaks as well as the companies that are paid to do them (what you don't get from the do it yourself one is a "report of findings",.nice but after a few, I'm not so interested in HOW bad the place is,.but how/where can I fix it. --187.153.xx.xx

Replacement windows... (by Virden [OH]) Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 9:06 AM

Shop for good windows and try to keep the comparison apples to apples, it is easy for a company to offer something other than what you asked about - low-e and argon are nice features for uv and noise blocking, install with good out and inside seals and stuff the cavity with fiberglass to prevent infiltration of outside air thru the framing or window box areas. You will find single hung windows are 50bux less than double hung, this only alters window cleaning a little and 6 windows should be easy to clean from the outside, the actual window cost in my area is 170-200 for less than 101 united inches.

Replacement windows... (by Rook [CA]) Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 9:09 AM

From Consumers Reports: The two best buys in vinyl, with cost comparison, and score out of a possible 100.

Survivor Reliabilt 5600 (Lowe's) $180 73

American Craftsman 9500 (HD) $220 69

Replacement windows... (by Rook [CA]) Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 9:10 AM

To be clear, the last number is the score.

Replacement windows... (by TxMike [TX]) Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 9:27 AM

While the new windows would be nice to look at, It won't save that much, and will cost a lot to install. The easiest thing to do would be add insulation to your attic. Home Depot and Lowes will loan you the blower, if you buy 20 bags, which would help. I have done this in many of my uinits, showsd the tennant you are trying to help, and will only cost you around $ 150. Don't get me wrong on the windows, they will be nice if replaced, and I have replaced many of mine, but got a heck of a deal a few years ago at Lowes for $ 5.00 per window, I cleaned them out, and only have a couple left after installing in a lot of my houses.

Replacement windows... (by Jeff S [MI]) Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 9:54 AM

Agree that the first step is to have an energy audit of some sort. Sometimes local energy companies will discount the price - there may be grant programs they receive for that purpose. However, single pane windows generally not so good. One of our local companies will install most average size windows for under 200 each - and have a good guarantee. Why bother doing it yourself for that price ? Of course I do have been known to do it myself as well .....

Replacement windows... (by NotNice [MA]) Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 9:58 AM

Figure out a counter offer if she turns down the two year lease. Remember, if she does decide to move out, depending on your market, you may have to replace the windows anyways.

As long as the tenant pays the utilities, the LLs main reason to get replacements windows is tenant attraction/retention. --67.150.xx.xx

Replacement windows... (by Bart [MA]) Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 10:37 AM

I remember reading that Argon only stays in windows a relatively few years, heating cooling and the seals fail and the gas is slowly pumped out (this is what the article said, i can't cite the reference now)

as far as "As long as the tenant pays the utilities, the LLs main reason to get replacements windows is tenant attraction/retention',..wellll, I can't agree with that,..not at least here and now. I find tenants VERY concerned with how energy efficient the units are. Esp the ones that can afford it. the ones that can't don't care quite as much but move on after the first winter because their brother in law says he pays this xx in heat. Then you have it circulating that don't rent from those apts cause there is NO insulation in them and it will cost you a fortune to heat.

I have purchased same from failing LL's that couldn't keep the place filled. We made a big deal of the new ownership making the place energy efficient and gave each looker a sheet on what has been done and how it compares to a standard home or apt.

made a huge difference to not only occupancy but retention. --187.153.xx.xx

Replacement windows... (by Smokowna [MD]) Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 10:51 AM

I would suggest you install the windows yourself. When it is done in one of my shacks the window is foamed in, then caulked on the inside, caulked on the outside. Only then is the trim placed back inside and the capping done outside.

I could see why many new replacement windows perform worse than old windows with storms. The installation was poor and most likely the window was of lesser quality.

Years ago, people would open the windows when it was hot, a new window opens easily and with a full screen in place you can cool down most houses before using the ac.

Old windows seldom are in good working order when you factor in the screen. Besides, the half screen is useless, you need the upper sash to drop and allow the hot air to exit.

With the lead laws, I see no reason to leave old windows in place now. Times have changed. --173.66.x.xx

Replacement windows... (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 12:28 PM

You need to find out where she sets the thermostat. If she has it set on 80 then you are not responsible for doing anything to help her with the bills.

She can put plastic kits over the windows if they leak also. Even with vinyl replacement windows there is still a conduction of cold through the moldings and the glass though there is no convection.

Find out what temp she had it set on. I used to work with folks who had their office temps up to 85 degrees in there.

Replacement windows... (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 1:05 PM

Windows may not be the major reason for Heat Loss. You should do an audit of the property. One one of my SFH is learned where the most heat was lost, here were my findings:

Non-insulated walls - 20% of heat loss

Weather stipping (doors/windows) - 20%

Attic, not enough insulation - 15%

Single glaze windows - 20%

Outlet/Switch/Cable/Phone covers - 5%

Misc.-hood/fireplace ... - 20%

Replacement windows... (by Chris [CA]) Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 5:53 PM

can you borrow an IR camera? can you upgrade the controls and teach the tenant to use them properly, like turn down the thermostat for the night / start the heat one hour before they get up etc.?

Look for the k-value of those windows. Really good ones should be at least 1.1, maybe 1.0

Tenant should learn how to air the house, too. Open all windows o n c e, as hot air warms up quicker. then close them. (I know people who keep windows ajar at 5 F).

1 degree Celsius is equal to a 6% energy saving. can they wear warmer clothes indoors and just heat the rooms they are using, when they use it?

Get a tax break and spend a few hundreds more for much more efficient windows! sorry, I have no clue about the prices, but you will save over time and you can get a tax break, too.

Replacement windows... (by nhsailmaker [NH]) Posted on: Mar 8, 2010 2:11 AM

I am the Senior State Energy Auditor -

Windows & Doors typically only account for 15% of heat loss.

Replacement windows will not pay for themselves until year 18 - Storm windows are the answer

Your problem is "BRICK" walls - there was no way to insulate them before the foam products arrived -

Get an energy audit

Replacement windows... (by Steve [FL]) Posted on: Mar 8, 2010 2:28 AM

Around here, those old single pane, aluminum windows were standard back in the day. I can attest that changing to new, double paned windows makes a BIG difference here in FL during summertime. --98.183.xx.xx

Replacement windows... (by frank [KS]) Posted on: Mar 8, 2010 3:22 AM

I think nhsailmaker hit the nail on the head. When we have tenants complain about the utility bills, I always ask to see the bill. Many times they will have an amount from the previous month on the bill and then they round it up to higher amount to make their case. We too live in a house that is much larger than the rentals and our bill is usually much less theirs. We have the old wood style windows with storms.

But, we don't stand at the door with it open talking to people. We shut the thermostat down at night and when gone. We never leave a storm window open unless the inside window is also open. We do not keep it 85 in the winter.

This said, we always check it out to see if there is a problem. We just added attic insulation to help on just such a problem.

Replacement windows... (by NotNice [MA]) Posted on: Mar 8, 2010 7:22 AM

"as far as "As long as the tenant pays the utilities, the LLs main reason to get replacements windows is tenant attraction/retention',..wellll, I can't agree with that,..not at least here and now. I find tenants VERY concerned with how energy efficient the units are"

Exactly, Bart[MA]. We're making the same point.

Tenants and applicants are convinced that replacement windows will save them lots of heating $$. Thus, to keep or get tenants is a big consideration for a LL when deciding to replace windows. We discuss here whether or not replacement windows are better for energy cost saving vs good single panes with good storms, but tenants don't bother with all the research and discussion. They just want replacement windows.

My unit has good wood single panes with good storm windows. But noway I could convince an applicant that they're just as good as replacements. So when I have to find a new tenant, I'll either have to rent a bit lower than market or get replacement windows. Of live with an empty unit and no rental income for quite some time.


Replacement windows... (by billy [MA]) Posted on: Mar 8, 2010 7:58 AM

window world looked good here.i think they changed their name recently to right windows.they have a 1-800- number. --208.58.x.xx

Replacement windows... (by jack [IL]) Posted on: Jun 22, 2010 8:05 AM

Are replacement windows written off or expensed? Also, are those federal tax breaks for energy efficient windows applicable to rental properties?

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