no rent
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no rent (by Sharon [MN]) Jun 27, 2008 2:46 AM
       no rent (by flee [MI]) Jun 27, 2008 3:21 AM
       no rent (by John [NJ]) Jun 27, 2008 4:27 AM
       no rent (by 16west [MN]) Jun 27, 2008 6:19 AM
       no rent (by 16west [MN]) Jun 27, 2008 7:25 AM
       no rent (by flee [MI]) Jun 27, 2008 7:34 AM
       no rent (by 16west [MN]) Jun 27, 2008 8:05 AM
       no rent (by flee [MI]) Jun 27, 2008 8:26 AM
       no rent (by mac [OH]) Jun 27, 2008 1:53 PM

no rent (by Sharon [MN]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2008 2:46 AM

State Specific Question About: MINNESOTA (MN) my renters are moving out at the end of the month and still no rent received. What are my rights at the end of the month? I did not renew the lease and they gave written notice of vacating. Can I retake possesion of my house? Can I change the locks? I have new renters moving in on the 1st...what am I suppose to do about them? I know I wil have to take the old renters to court, but in the meantime what are my options?


no rent (by flee [MI]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2008 3:21 AM

You have no rights. Really, the Ll'd pretty much sol, and has no rights until court says you do. Do nothing with you rental as per law the renters own it as per renting rights. If they don't pay the rent, well, that doesn't mean much either.

You see, your hands tied. LL'ds must file a legal notice to inform tenant they haven't paid rent (like they didn't know). The notice has legal requirements on wording, font, and copies. Most will purchase or download legal notices from internet. You will need to send them this notice to start legal process as they are not required by law to move and you can't force them. They could sit their forever until you go through the legal hoops to kick them out.

no rent (by John [NJ]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2008 4:27 AM

It appears your tenants may think their security deposit covers the last month (you do have a security deposit, right?).

If they do move out as they planned and you find no damages and their SD covers at least a month's rent, maybe the easy way out is to just settle for what you got and re-rent.

Next time, state in the lease how the security deposit will be used and what that it will NOT cover the last month, which I'm sure you already stated in the lease. If this happenes again, aggressively correct this situtation early in the month, not at the end.


New Jersey

no rent (by 16west [MN]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2008 6:19 AM

Flee, Grow up.

Welcome to the board Sharon. John pretty much nailed it. Here is what I can add. At this point you should be communicating with your tenants in a friendly, but business like manner. You need to tell them that the last months rent is still due and that they should send it promptly. Do not threaten to deduct anything from the deposit. Only tell them that the appropriate charges will be deducted, if any, after they are completely moved out and you have made your final inspection. When you do inspect, do it BEFORE the new tenants move in. Document anything you will be charging for, both in writing and with photos. At this time you should also take photos to document the move in condition for your new tenants.

As long as your current tenants move as planned, your rights do not change, only the tenants do.

Go to the MN Attorney General web page and download this publication.

This will explain the basic laws and your rights in Minnesota.

BTW, Minn. Statue 501b.181, subd.2(b) (2006) requires that you notify your tenants that handbook is available to them? Did you? You need to know these laws. There not a lot of them, but they are very important.

As far as taking possession of the house, what are you trying to gain? The new tenants will be here in a few days. Today is Friday, they plan on moving on Monday, and even in Texas you canít evict that fast! You should change the locks for the new tenants. This should be standard procedure for you. Change them after the current tenants are completely moved out and before the new tenants move in.

As far as taking them to court, you are being a bit trigger happy. Before you can take them to court, they have to A. Owe you money. B. Refuse to pay it. Subtract the rent owed and any damages from the deposit. If they still owe you money, send them a bill at their new address with all charges itemized and specific date they need to pay you by. Just like the bills you get, the due date should be about 30 days from the time you send it. If they refuse to pay, then you can take them to court.

Buy and read these books. They are available on this sight under the books section, at a very low price. Or you can find them at or Borders Book Store.

Landlording by Leigh Robinson.

Landlords Survival Guide, by Jeffery Taylor.

The Landlords Kit, by Jeffery Taylor.

Good Luck!

no rent (by 16west [MN]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2008 7:25 AM

Some additional and exceptional advice from Terry CA, posted on Posted on: Apr 21, 2008 4:47 AM

(by Terry [CA]) Posted on: Apr 21, 2008 4:47 AM

Message: These are just a few of the many many tips a new LL should take to heart whether they have ONE unit or a THOUSAND units.

By posting them here on a regular basis, I hope to help prevent some of the routine mistakes made over and over again by new landlords and the resulting questions asked here "after the fact".

DISCLAIMER: Almost everything in being a LL is governed by STATE laws which vary greatly among the states. THEREFORE you MUST apply any tips given here to YOUR state law's interpretation. You also need to know any applicable LOCAL laws that affect your rental properties!

1. ALWAYS FULLY screen ALL applicants 18 and over - NO EXCEPTIONS (not even adult children). Check credit, evictions/civil/criminal (if you do criminal you must do on EVERY applicant not just "some" - same goes for all checks you do), SS#, bad check history, at least two previous LL references (VERIFIED), employment with WRITTEN income verification (stubs, bank records, certified tax returns, etc). NEVER take anyone with an eviction on their record. Create a list of minimum criteria to qualify and then apply that criteria to each and every applicant EQUALLY.

2. NEVER give a new tenant the keys/possession until you have received the first FULL MONTH's rent and FULL security deposit in CERTIFIED FUNDS ONLY (cash, bank check, etc.) and the utilities have been changed to their names. DO NOT pro-rate the first month..always take a FULL month and if need be pro-rate the SECOND month.

3. Use MTM agreements NOT fixed term leases (yeah OK this one is a TERRY TIP for sure - just READ here all of the woes of lease breaking (both sides) and you'll see why this is one of my tips! This way unless in rent control area, you can terminate the tenancy without having to "prove a case/state a reason". You can also change any material terms including rent increases with just a written notice of (usually) 30 days. Leases protect tenants much more than they protect LL's. There are many times a LL just wants a tenant gone but if it had to be proven why in court it might be a gray area (noise, bugging LL with requests, suspected drugs but no proof, etc.). Also with MTM you can manage your business and respond to the market, etc. as it happens. FACT: Tenants can and will move when they want/need to regardless of the agreement you have in place. Life changes happen.

4. You MUST learn and know well your state LL/Tenant state laws. Learn them all BEFORE you are faced with a situation. Many of the links above are valid but if your state is not a valid link, ask someone here to point you in the right direction for your state. Also learn fair housing laws in your state/locality and what you can do to prevent being challenged by fair housing.

5. Make sure that your rental agreement is in full compliance with your state laws. It is best to use one from a local LL association that has been tested numerous times in your local courts and reviewed by local LL attorneys. DO NOT try to write one yourself. DO NOT trust a real estate agent to "know it all" and write one for you.

6. ALWAYS serve the appropriate pay or quit notice (or whatever action your state requires) for past due rent as soon as legally OK to do so in your state. DO NOT WAIT. NO EXCEPTIONS HERE. DO NOT buy into tenant's "stories", IOU's, excuses, promises, etc. DO NOT ALLOW rent to get past due more than a few days. DO NOT WAIT months to wonder if/how to evict/collect. When the pay or quit/other notice legally expires FILE FOR EVICTION!

7. DO NOT "guess" at the process, the form/language required on a pay or quit notice, the method of service required by your state, etc. ASK HERE BEFORE you serve it or get assistance from a local LL association/attorney.

8. If you must evict a tenant and wish to use a lawyer (which you SHOULD especially the first time) BE SURE the lawyer is one who specializes in LL/Tenant evictions period. You will save a lot of money and know the job will be done right. DO NOT use a "generic" real estate attorney or other speciality one. Again, your local LL association can be of help to find the right person to use who will typically charge a FIXED FEE for evictions.

9. JOIN a local landlord association - EXTREMELY beneficial for ALL LL's to belong to at least one in their area. Even if you just have one or two units. Helps keep you up to date with ever changing market, STATE LAWS/PENDING LEGISLATION, vendor availability, etc. Many of the better ones offer all sorts of publications, onsite training and classes, special speakers, vendor referrals (including legal), tenant reporting, credit reporting services, etc.

10. ASK HERE BEFORE you try and "handle" a crisis not after. When you post a question here, please provide as much background info as possible, then return to the thread several times and answer any questions asked of you about your post to ensure you get accurate and good info you can use. Acknowledge the replies and as a courtesy post what direction you took, why and if/how it worked out. BE SURE TO POST WHAT STATE the property is in - it makes a HUGE difference in what advice you will get and how accurate it will be.

11. Do not try to do long distance landlording if you are new to this business, especially without a GOOD PM. Finding a good PM can be more difficult than finding good tenants and a BAD one can destroy your business.

12. DO NOT rent to family, friends or work associates.

13. DO NOT try to do "self help" evictions as they are illegal. This includes things like shutting off the utilities, changing locks on the unit, etc. You can serve notices but only the court can EVICT a tenant legally.

14. When buying a property, do a LOT of due dilligence. DO NOT "trust" the info provided by the seller and real estate agents. DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE making an offer. Rents are often overstated, expenses understated. Make sure you demand to get copies of existing leases and all applicable paperwork for each tenant. Don't forget to get all security deposits transferred to you at closing.

15. In virtually all cases you must honor and abide by agreements in place at the time you take over a building. If they are FIXED TERM leases you typically must honor them until they expire.

16. Obtain updated tenant (AND guarantor if applicable) info every couple of years. This includes place of employment (address/phone), emergency contacts, car descriptions, etc. Sign updated rental agreements every year or two as well since laws change so often and therefore your forms should too.

17. DO NOT sign a new rental agreement with a new tenant until you have full legal possession of the unit to be rented. Also do not allow possession of a unit until it is fully in "rent ready" condition.

18. In virtually all states/instances you cannot just "keep" a security deposit. PER YOUR STATE LAW you must do a full accounting for it and send it to the tenant's last known address (your unit if no forwarding). There are a few states with odd exceptions..KNOW YOUR STATE LAW ON THIS. This is the area new LL's make the most mistakes in. You MUST send this accounting within a certain number of days per your state and if you don't you can be sued and in many cases have to pay up to THREE TIMES the amount of the deposit back to the tenant EVEN IF THERE WAS EXTREME DAMAGE.

DO NOT charge tenants for normal wear and tear or regular maintenance needed in between tenancies. YOU WILL HAVE out of pocket expenses to turn over a unit and should budget accordingly. You can't charge tenants for items just because they need to be done after they move. The tenant must have CAUSED DAMAGE beyond normal wear and tear in order to be charged for things. Some LL's unfairly overcharge tenants deducting items that the LL should be doing and paying for as a routine cost of business for vacancy turnovers. Or they "forget" to factor in required depreciated value considerations.

19. Never hold a unit for a new tenant for more than a couple of weeks. If you DO hold it, BE SURE to have them sign a holding deposit (or fee depending on your state law) agreement that clearly spells out the consequences if they do not "perform". Never sign a holding agreement with anyone until AFTER you have fully screened them and approved them and make sure ALL parties sign it! And of course do not sign one unless YOU have possession already of the unit in question.

20. Always insist that you meet and verify the identity of every applicant - NO EXCEPTIONS. Do not allow someone else to apply for them. Ask to see photo ID and make sure it is the person before you. Same goes for SS#. Do not rent to anyone you cannot verify identification on. NEVER allow anyone "new" to move into your unit during a tenancy until you have fully screened and approved them. This includes boyfriends/girlfriends, new roommates to replace old ones, etc.

21. Never let a tenant paint or do any kind of fixup work in the unit. The risks FAR outweigh any "perceived" benefits.

22. BEFORE you rent a unit when it is "rent-ready" take pictures in every room and focus on the areas that are most likely to receive damage. Carpets, walls, blinds, sinks/counters, stoves/ovens, toilets, flooring, etc. Also make sure you and the tenant moving in complete a "condition checklist" that lists all items in the unit (structure and appliances, etc) and notes the condition...making sure you have pictures that correspond to the same items listed. THIS IS CRITICAL.

23. When a tenant moves OUT, then complete the same condition list but instead noting the MOVE OUT condition of each item. Take pictures of EVERY AREA of damage you plan to charge for and some general pictures too that correspond to the move IN pictures you took at the beginning of that tenancy. The move in/out checklists and the photos combined are often the make or break point of winning or losing a case in court. VERY IMPORTANT.

Any other "admin" type questions regarding LL/Tenant relations, feel free to ask!

no rent (by flee [MI]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2008 7:34 AM

16west look in the mirror and repeat "I insult people because I have personal problems"

no rent (by 16west [MN]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2008 8:05 AM

Read our post Flee. You are the one insulting Sharon specifically and all other posters to this site in general. If you refuse to offer legitimate advice, keep your rants on your own posts, otherwise there is not much difference between you and the Troll.

no rent (by flee [MI]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2008 8:26 AM

You insulted, plain and simple. Just a personal attack to make yourself feel superior.

My post was correct, am sorry, if reality hard to take. If your of opinion the legal corrosion imposed on LL'ds is a good thing? Well, keep drinking kool-aid, you would truly have to.

Let Sharon know, the LL'ds has little choice, but to act within legal system to gain power and do it now as the deck is stacked mightily upon benefit of tenants. Being from MN a strike against LL'd. Being from Twin Cities, good luck, hire an attorney, many activist feel good ploys.

Why do you folks of herd mentality love to dish out "troll" description to those not of your mindset? My goodness, such predictable behavior. Some do "Troll" or do as you indulged in, insult for the fun or to make one feel better.

no rent (by mac [OH]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2008 1:53 PM

I might add that in many states if you are llc or inc the courts may not allow a ll to rep oneself. lost a case 5 or so yrs ago when judge informed me of this. its handier now to just fax or e-mail to atty. what they need, he files and meets me @ court. it's a premium of 125 versus when i did it myself for under 75.

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