Double+dipping%3F

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Double dipping? (by Jan [MO]) Jul 3, 2020 12:50 PM
       (by AllyM [NJ]) Jul 3, 2020 12:54 PM
       (by Jason [VA]) Jul 3, 2020 1:16 PM
       (by Dejay [TX]) Jul 3, 2020 1:24 PM
       (by plenty [MO]) Jul 3, 2020 1:29 PM
       (by Sisco [MO]) Jul 3, 2020 1:40 PM
       (by Ken [NY]) Jul 3, 2020 1:54 PM
       (by Mike45 [NV]) Jul 3, 2020 1:58 PM
       (by myob [GA]) Jul 3, 2020 2:01 PM
       (by Jim in O C [CA]) Jul 3, 2020 2:53 PM
       (by chris [MN]) Jul 3, 2020 3:17 PM
       (by marie [MO]) Jul 3, 2020 3:31 PM
       (by Vee [OH]) Jul 3, 2020 3:50 PM
       (by LisaFL [FL]) Jul 3, 2020 4:03 PM
       (by WMH [NC]) Jul 3, 2020 4:36 PM
       (by Sisco [MO]) Jul 3, 2020 4:43 PM
       (by laura [MD]) Jul 3, 2020 6:59 PM
       (by laura [MD]) Jul 3, 2020 7:03 PM
       (by Robert J [CA]) Jul 3, 2020 8:41 PM
       (by Jim in O C [CA]) Jul 3, 2020 9:02 PM
       (by Jim in O C [CA]) Jul 3, 2020 9:02 PM
       (by ned [AL]) Jul 3, 2020 9:55 PM
       (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Jul 4, 2020 2:34 AM
       (by myob [GA]) Jul 4, 2020 8:16 AM
       (by Jan [MO]) Jul 4, 2020 9:41 AM
       (by Jan [MO]) Jul 4, 2020 9:42 AM
       (by LindaJ [NY]) Jul 4, 2020 9:46 AM
       (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Jul 5, 2020 2:24 AM
       (by Cat [WI]) Jul 6, 2020 2:23 AM
       (by Kitty [AL]) Jul 8, 2020 12:23 PM
       (by Pmh [TX]) Jul 8, 2020 5:28 PM
       (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Jul 8, 2020 5:31 PM
       (by Cjo’h [CT]) Jul 11, 2020 11:35 PM

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Double dipping? (by Jan [MO]) Jul 3, 2020 12:50 PM
Message:

Missouri landlords, please advise me. My tenant has vacated to move to a new job in another state. They wanted him to start ASAP. He left on excellent terms and the rent has been paid through the end of July. I know his new employer is reimbursing him for July's rent.

The property is now vacant and showings will start soon. I've listed is as available 8/1 at a higher rent than my previous tenant was paying. If I find a qualified prospect who wants to move in mid-late July, they will wonder why they can't move in then because the property is vacant. My former tenant would never know the difference if they moved in during July but I don't want to break any laws. Do I need to reimburse my previous tenant a pro-rated amount of rent, at HIS rental rate, for the number days in July that it is rented, should the situation occur?

Please advise. Thank you!

--97.91.xxx.xxx




Double dipping? (by AllyM [NJ]) Jul 3, 2020 12:54 PM
Message:

It would be nice. It wouldn't hurt. It's probably not legal somewhere to charge two people for the same space. --71.104.xx.xxx




Double dipping? (by Jason [VA]) Jul 3, 2020 1:16 PM
Message:

If it’s ready to be occupied now, then get it occupied NOW. There’s absolutely zero reason I wouldn’t get it rented out right away. Nobody is going to care one way or the other if you double dip. --73.177.xxx.xx




Double dipping? (by Dejay [TX]) Jul 3, 2020 1:24 PM
Message:

Your departing Tenant has vacated the property and broken the lease? You have a signed agreement with him allowing hiIm to do so on good terms? He has given up his right to the property; rerent ASAP. --108.249.xxx.xxx




Double dipping? (by plenty [MO]) Jul 3, 2020 1:29 PM
Message:

Seems you'd be reimbursing the employer and not the tenant. I would not consider this double dipping. Rent on! --99.203.xx.xxx




Double dipping? (by Sisco [MO]) Jul 3, 2020 1:40 PM
Message:

Jan, your view of the matter is off the mark. There is no law regarding double dips.

The tenant unexpectedly no longer needed use of the house, he had agreed to pay for 12 months and did so.

He returned possession of the house to you. Rent it.

Imagine a scenario in which after tenant moved out paying remaining lease payments the front door of this house were kicked causing significant damages. Would you bill the now departed tenant? Of course not! Because he had returned possession to you.

You are not harming the now ex tenant in any way by leasing your house. --67.43.xxx.xxx




Double dipping? (by Ken [NY]) Jul 3, 2020 1:54 PM
Message:

I agree with Sisco 100% the door scenario puts it into proper perspective --104.229.xxx.xxx




Double dipping? (by Mike45 [NV]) Jul 3, 2020 1:58 PM
Message:

I know nothing about the neighborhood of this unit, but I hate to have property sitting vacant.

The teenagers and 20-somethings in the neighborhood all know which units are vacant, and a vacant unit is a magnet for trouble -- break-ins, graffiti, A/C copper thefts, arson, whatever.

So I would probably have a house-sitter in there already, and as soon as I found a qualified applicant, I'd get the new tenant in as soon as possible.

--174.30.xxx.xxx




Double dipping? (by myob [GA]) Jul 3, 2020 2:01 PM
Message:

OK the steps are-- tenant gave proper notice. They are gone but have they left the keys for you? Forwarding address? Utilities in your name now? YOU NOW HAVE LEGAL POSSESSION.

Your job is to re rent and protect the property. Unless you made a deal with departing tenant to reimburse any pro rated rent for keys ASAP--- get the locks changed. Get the final bill to X tenant-- set date for deposit to be returned and move forward. Overlapping rent is call PROFIT.

Don't look it wrong in the face.... --99.103.xxx.xxx




Double dipping? (by Jim in O C [CA]) Jul 3, 2020 2:53 PM
Message:

You could always do the right thing and refund the rent for the time that your new tenant is occupying the property. This is required in California. --99.23.xxx.x




Double dipping? (by chris [MN]) Jul 3, 2020 3:17 PM
Message:

Jim in OC, if that's the right thing, then why don't you do the right thing and refund any profit you've made back to your tenants?

Take the difference that you charge in rent and pay out in mortgages/expenses and refund that back to your tenants. That's the right thing to do. --77.111.xxx.x




Double dipping? (by marie [MO]) Jul 3, 2020 3:31 PM
Message:

In Missouri, you cannot double dip. 'The landlord cannot double dip by collecting rent from you and the new tenant. Once the place was re-rented, your (the original tenant's) obligation to pay rent ended. You do not owe rent for those remaining months of your lease.' --98.156.xxx.xxx




Double dipping? (by Vee [OH]) Jul 3, 2020 3:50 PM
Message:

If you end up returning some day of rent be sure to use the old rent rate for the calculation, and the new person pays the higher rate. --76.188.xxx.xxx




Double dipping? (by LisaFL [FL]) Jul 3, 2020 4:03 PM
Message:

My tenants must pay their last month in full regardless of when they move. In the rare event they pay in full and leave super early in the month and it is rent ready and I can get someone in by mid month then I will refund them for 1/2 the month.

Most leave nearer to the end of the month. If my unit is left move in ready with little to nothing to do and I have a signed lease agreement for the following month I give the new tenant the unit up to a week early without charge.

This comes in handy when people leaving want to balk about having to pay for the full month when they are moving on the 21st of 28th. I explain it’s a monthly rental not a ally rental, that would be a hotel. And I remind them they were given the keys three days early (or whatever was the case) when they moved in and did not pay for those days. Seems to make them feel better. --216.186.xxx.xx




Double dipping? (by WMH [NC]) Jul 3, 2020 4:36 PM
Message:

Marie/MO, that's a different circumstance. That is saying that a tenant who breaks the lease is not responsible FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE LEASE *if* the Landlord re-rents it. So a LL can't rent the place and STILL charge the old tenant rent going forward.

But in this instance, unless the Tenant sued me for the few days pro-rated rent, I'd say you are fine IF POSSESSION HAS BEEN RETURNED and it sounds as if it has. --50.82.xxx.xxx




Double dipping? (by Sisco [MO]) Jul 3, 2020 4:43 PM
Message:

Marie, the information that you shared applies whenever the damages are being mitigated.....meaning, whenever the terms are not spelled out in the lease. Or, whenever tenant doesn’t comply and is taken to court By landlord to enforce lease.

Jans terms were spelled out, tenant complied, Jan complied. Issue is settled as agreed to at lease signing. --67.43.xxx.xxx




Double dipping? (by laura [MD]) Jul 3, 2020 6:59 PM
Message:

In MD we have laws about that, if the previous tenant became aware of the situation and took you to court, he would be owed a refund on the double rent time. --108.56.xxx.xx




Double dipping? (by laura [MD]) Jul 3, 2020 7:03 PM
Message:

Evidently Minn also has laws against double dipping.

Renting and the law: Tenant left early — can landlord collect double rent?

By KELLY KLEIN | Kelly Klein SEPTEMBER 21, 2018 — 2:20PM

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Q: My friend’s lease ended on July 28, but was broken by him before that date. He notified the landlord of his intent and requested to end the lease early, but the landlord dragged his feet and never agreed to an early termination. My friend vacated on May 7. He later learned that his landlord signed a new lease with a new tenant on May 4, to begin on June 1. My friend has proof of this — a copy of the new tenant’s lease. He requested a statement of damages or deductions from his deposit on May 21, but the landlord did not provide one until June 13.

I am trying to determine when my friend’s tenancy legally ended. Minnesota law requires that a landlord return a deposit or provide a statement of damages within three weeks of termination of the tenancy. But when does that clock start ticking? Does it begin when the property was vacated and surrendered, or does termination continue until the end of the contractual lease term? Since my friend’s unit was rented on June 1, I would expect that his tenancy would have to have ended sometime prior to the new tenant’s lease beginning. I would expect it to be when the property was surrendered, but I cannot find anything that defines when termination of tenancy legally occurs.

Partial rent for June was paid by my friend. However, despite collecting all of June rent from the new tenant, the landlord is refusing to refund the partial June rent paid by my friend. I’m pretty sure the landlord cannot collect double rent, but I cannot find anything about that in the statute, either. Can you point me to the correct statute or some other reference that my friend can cite in his written complaint?

A: The answers to your questions are not found in the statute, but can be found in case law. It is often difficult to determine when a tenancy ends, especially if it occurs before or after the terms stated in the lease. When a tenant leaves at the end of their lease, it is easy to determine that date as the start of the 21-day period. It becomes more difficult when the tenant leaves before the end of their lease, as in your friend’s case. Sometimes there is a mutual agreement to terminate the lease early, with a signed document stating the termination date, but that didn’t occur in your friend’s situation. If a tenant leaves before the end of their lease, and a new tenant moves in, this will also end the tenancy, which is what happened in your friend’s situation. Based on this information, your friend’s tenancy ended on June 1, so the landlord was in compliance by providing a letter on June 13, within the 21-day rule. An argument could be made for your friend’s tenancy ending on May 4 or May 7, based on these facts, but I cannot say if it would be successful.

According to Minnesota case law, if a landlord does re-rent the unit, they are not allowed to collect double rent. In Minnesota, landlords don’t have a duty to mitigate, which means to rent out the unit to a new tenant when another tenant terminates early. If they do mitigate, though, as your friend’s landlord did, and they collect the same amount of rent from the new tenant, the landlord cannot turn around and get additional rent from the previous tenant. Your friend has a strong argument for getting his partial rent money back for June, unless he owes his landlord money from past unpaid rent.

Also, if his landlord was not able to get the same amount of rent from the new tenant, then your friend may end up owing the difference for June and July, since his lease wasn’t terminating until July 28. In most cases, the lease terms are the same for the new renter, with the potential for increased rent, so this may not be an issue in your friend’s case. Since your friend has a copy of the new renter’s lease, then he already knows what the new tenant’s rent is, and would know whether he needs to pay the difference for June and July.

Kelly Klein is a Minneapolis attorney. Participation in this column does not create an attorney/client relationship with Klein. Do not rely on advice in this column for legal opinions. Consult an attorney regarding your particular issues. E-mail renting questions to kklein@kleinpa.com, or write to Kelly Klein c/o Star Tribune, 650 3rd Av. S., Minneapolis, MN 55488. Information provided by readers is not confidential.

--108.56.xxx.xx




Double dipping? (by Robert J [CA]) Jul 3, 2020 8:41 PM
Message:

This issue has been thought out by my City, Los Angeles. They want the "landlord" to mitigate damages by trying to re-rent the property ASAP so the old tenant isn't holding the bag.

On the other hand, when a tenant moves, it gives me the opportunity to "fix up" the rental and do some "remodeling". All these things to "raise the rent to Market".

It is not fair to my tenant that I use their rent to cover my down time during my "Up-grades".

So to be fair I have a conversation with my departing tenants. I explain that under normal circumstances the time it would take me to slap on a new coat of paint, replace the flooring and window treatment would take around two weeks. And then ANOTHER two weeks to find a tenant and start a NEW LEASE.

So I should charge a tenant who moves out and breaks the lease a minimum of 1 months rent.... But I will be doing some MORE UP-GRADES and it may take me over 30 days to fix up the rental and find a new tenant. So anything thing over 30 days SHOULD BE on my Dime and not theirs.

MOST of my tenants agree that 30 days charged to the tenant is fair.... And by law, I would have needed 30 days notice anyways..... --47.155.xx.xxx




Double dipping? (by Jim in O C [CA]) Jul 3, 2020 9:02 PM
Message:

Well Chris in MN, you are confusing getting paid for the same rental time period twice or double dipping with operating a rental business and making a profit for the risk taken. This is one of the California laws that is fair to the tenant and requires the landlord to

attempt to mitigate their losses. --99.23.xxx.x




Double dipping? (by Jim in O C [CA]) Jul 3, 2020 9:02 PM
Message:

Well Chris in MN, you are confusing getting paid for the same rental time period twice or double dipping with operating a rental business and making a profit for the risk taken. This is one of the California laws that is fair to the tenant and requires the landlord to

attempt to mitigate their losses. --99.23.xxx.x




Double dipping? (by ned [AL]) Jul 3, 2020 9:55 PM
Message:

Don't confuse legal with ethical.

Of course, if they've given you possession back, it's yours.

Rent it. --70.92.xx.xx




Double dipping? (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Jul 4, 2020 2:34 AM
Message:

Jan,

So call it an Early Lease Termination Fee.

BRAD --73.102.xxx.xxx




Double dipping? (by myob [GA]) Jul 4, 2020 8:16 AM
Message:

Many have mentioned your state laws-- like paying double back to tenant for double dipping?

When I rent to a tenant-- I don't have a day rate. Rent is by the month and the tenant is required to pay "forward" the rent. Tenant pays for the September rent and leaves Sept 10th-- I don't have a daily rate to refund-- its by the month.

So in CA when I rent a condo for 2 weeks and and the res says none refundable-- if I leave in a week I could sue for the week I was gone? This situation is exactly what happens when you pay for a hotel room for example and you don't show they keep the money.

My feeling is if they leave-- almost 99% of the time all utilities are off-- the property now needs to be looked over daily while empty-- ride byes-- mowing turn on of utilities.

Lastly "PROFIT" I don't use CA math. Make this a profit for the company.

No early skip out fee-- cause when you leave early-- whether paided in full or not-- you skipped out. You left the property--FOR ME. --99.103.xxx.xxx




Double dipping? (by Jan [MO]) Jul 4, 2020 9:41 AM
Message:

Thanks very much to everyone who responded. My tenant lived in the property (a condo) for 16 months. His lease converted to MTM after 12 months. In late June, he called and advised that he had lost his job but had found another one in another state. His new employer wanted him to start ASAP so he was gone by June 29th. He knew he was obligated to pay July's rent, and he did. He was a very good tenant and we left on good terms. He told me his new employer would reimburse him for the July rent, and he had me sign a receipt for the rental payment that he could give to his new employer.

The utilities for July were not required to be paid pursuant to the lease addendum we signed after his 1-year lease term ended, converting his tenancy to MTM. So the utilities are now in my name.

I will research MO law myself on the internet to see if I could re-rent it before August 1 and not be in trouble for technically being paid by two people for x number of days. Though how anyone would ever know this is hard to imagine.

Thank you again everyone for responding. --97.91.xxx.xxx




Double dipping? (by Jan [MO]) Jul 4, 2020 9:42 AM
Message:

PS Brad - your idea (calling the July rent an early termination fee) is a good one, but the check says "July rent" and I would have no real documentation to prove it was a fee, not rent. --97.91.xxx.xxx




Double dipping? (by LindaJ [NY]) Jul 4, 2020 9:46 AM
Message:

They vacated and returned possession, it is yours to repair, upgrade, rent. I would not hesitate to get a new good tenant in immediately. Depending on how many days early they moved in, I may pro rate the amount and charge, or just let them move in the few days early (without a charge to them). --108.4.xxx.xxx




Double dipping? (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Jul 5, 2020 2:24 AM
Message:

Jan,

My lease is clear: all monies are applied to the unpaid balance no matter what anyone writes on a check.

Plus we do autodraft so no one writes on any checks.

MY judge in Indiana has stated many times that once we regain possession we can do whatever we want with the property.

When I return a rental car early but have to pay for the whole day they re-rent it and charge someone else for that same day.

BRAD --73.102.xxx.xxx




Double dipping? (by Cat [WI]) Jul 6, 2020 2:23 AM
Message:

We can't double dip here. Once I find a new tenant and they move in, the rent for the number of days the new tenant was in the unit that month, would be refunded back to prior tenant. Why make them pay double rent if they left on good terms?

I think that is only fair and ethical. Just remember that tenants talk and it may not be as unlikely that you think, that they may find out you got twice the rent for a number of days. Prior tenants leave friends and family behind sometimes. A neighbor of the prior tenant may tell them that someone moved in 3 days after they left or something. If prior tenant left on good terms and found this out, it may lower their opinion of you as a landlord if you appear "shady" to them.

Just better to be fair, especially if the tenant treated you fairly. They may find out that someone else moved in, while they still needed to pay rent. Once a landlord gets a bad rap, even if they don't feel they should have, it can cause issues and mistrust down the road. Just not worth it. We have to be worth our word, in my opinion. Refund the prior tenant and be done with it. --50.105.xxx.xx




Double dipping? (by Kitty [AL]) Jul 8, 2020 12:23 PM
Message:

I make sure not to Double Dip and we offer Early Lease Termination of 2 months when someone needs to break a lease.

My question is how do large commercial apartment complexes handle it if someone breaks their lease? Do they require the tenant to pay the full lease after they have given up possession of the unit? --68.191.xxx.xxx




Double dipping? (by Pmh [TX]) Jul 8, 2020 5:28 PM
Message:

Kitty: what our employees have told us..we had to furlough hundreds and the ones remaining are on reduced hours....is that most of the big apt complexes have been letting them out with payment of one month as an elt & cxling the remainder of the term. For me, I own houses, I reduced rents to 25% for April, 50% for May and then full pop June. all have stayed. the unemployment cks had kicked in. I come out ahead by not having vacancies & no rents. I know there are others who perhaps cannot carry their rentals. I am able. The big complexes I suppose can carry the vacancies. I think though many with cmbs notes are kicking the can down the road with their shortsightedness... to the big LL here...wait 6 mos when the special servicers cannot negotiate anymore for the bond holders...it will be a buyers mkt...I am looking fwd to another crash so I can buy more houses. Last time I was buying was 2008-09...... --107.77.xxx.xxx




Double dipping? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Jul 8, 2020 5:31 PM
Message:

Isn't double dipping when you get two scoops of ice cream on a hot day like today? --24.101.xxx.xx




Double dipping? (by Cjo’h [CT]) Jul 11, 2020 11:35 PM
Message:

Coming from the fields of Derry in Northern Ireland and a Country Boy I’dt tie double dipping with the ice cream .cant tie that with renting houses......................... ................................................ .................charlie --32.214.xxx.xx



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