Every Square Foot (by Richard [MI]) Mar 22, 2019 10:36 AM
Every Square Foot (by David [MI]) Mar 22, 2019 10:56 AM
Every Square Foot (by Busy [WI]) Mar 22, 2019 10:58 AM
Every Square Foot (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Mar 22, 2019 11:03 AM
Every Square Foot (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Mar 22, 2019 11:07 AM
Every Square Foot (by Richard [MI]) Mar 22, 2019 11:13 AM
Every Square Foot (by LindaJ [NY]) Mar 22, 2019 11:20 AM
Every Square Foot (by Busy [WI]) Mar 22, 2019 11:38 AM
Every Square Foot (by Richard [MI]) Mar 22, 2019 12:23 PM
Every Square Foot (by Mike45 [NV]) Mar 22, 2019 12:35 PM
Every Square Foot (by JB [OR]) Mar 22, 2019 1:14 PM
Every Square Foot (by Busy [WI]) Mar 22, 2019 1:21 PM
Every Square Foot (by fred [CA]) Mar 22, 2019 5:38 PM
Every Square Foot (by Busy [WI]) Mar 22, 2019 6:10 PM
Every Square Foot (by David [MI]) Mar 22, 2019 6:13 PM
Every Square Foot (by Busy [WI]) Mar 22, 2019 6:47 PM
Every Square Foot (by JKJ [MA]) Mar 22, 2019 6:48 PM
Every Square Foot (by JR [ME]) Mar 22, 2019 7:23 PM
Every Square Foot (by Lynda [TX]) Mar 22, 2019 7:41 PM
Every Square Foot (by JB [OR]) Mar 22, 2019 8:33 PM
Every Square Foot (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2019 10:36 AM Message:
In the never ending quest to maximize returns from our properties, I've been considering what I will call "Every Square Foot" utilization of the property to generate income.
This may work for me because my places are not in downtown locations. They are in "the suburbs"of town or in the country. Typical lots/land on these places ranges from 1/3 acre (about 15000square feet) and up. Now most housing is under 1500 square feet plus driveway and yard, so there's usually at least 10,000 square feet plus on each place that could potentially be used, allowing 5000 feet for house, drive and yard (50x100 approx). Often a lot more.
Some of us put or have additional sheds, barns, or storage units on this extra land to generate extra income.
Zoning in most areas restricts what we can do.
So, what's realistic, possibly doable, and potentially profitable enough to be worth trying?
Around here, the farmers markets are very popular. I have several friends who make $3000 plus per season from small 20x30 size gardens in their back yards selling greens, tomatos and flowers (sunflowers, lillys, gladiolas,etc). In theory, garlic, ginsing, and a few other things might be possible.
Of course, who does the work?.Who provides the water, the seed, the fertilizer, etc. How are the proceeds divided? How to control the income? Who is responsible for harvesting, transporting to market and selling? (Sounds like a good project for teenagers?)
Yup, there's lots of questions to be answered and no guarantees.
However, there are tens of thousands of square feet just sitting, currently producing ZERO (the house currently produces the rent.) If my friends can make $3000(gross) off 600 square feet of land in a season, perhaps, maybe I can figure a way to make even $1.00 a square foot (allowing the other $5 a foot for labor and expenses.)
So if I have 10,000 sq feet of land available, and figure 1/2 of it for actual growing room (5000ft) and net $1 a foot, that's $5000 extra on each 10,000 square feet, or net 50 cents a foot.
My houses generate about $500-600 gross a month from, say 900 square feet or about $300 a month net or 30 cents a foot per month, BUT they cost , say $25000 each (to use a number).
The land is included in the price of the house but if separated would likely be valued at about 10-20 percent of total value around here (some areas it would be much higher).Figuring the higher number, 20%, that's roughly $5000 land value that would produce $5000 in returns net per year, or a 100% return.
Obviously, all numbers are theoretical, but I am thinking not completely out of line. There are plenty of articles on line about how to generate good returns from small land areas. In fact, I've known several people who did well at this.
Still, even if I could generate 50 cents a foot net per season, (plus of course vegetables to eat and flowers) that would be a good extra income and hopefully passive income.
Oh, yea, one other thing, I'm NOT going to grow marijuana like some people do. Here they just passed recreational pot as being lawful. It's going to open up all kinds of things and I dont/won't be involved. Too much probable crime from ripoff's, etc. I
Just thinking. --23.121.xx.xxx |
Every Square Foot (by David [MI]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2019 10:56 AM Message:
when someone rents a sfh from me, they rent that rather than a condo or apt mainly because of the yard and privacy. Not sure how you'd explain you'll also be growing veggies. And then there is the problem of how you will water them .
--144.250.xx.xx |
Every Square Foot (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2019 10:58 AM Message:
My first thought is: tenant has the house, driveway, but now someone else will be coming into property to farm the plots? Who pays for water? Where does the farmer park? And then, on city lots, Might there be lead paint chips in the soil? I won’t let my tenants garden in the ground, generally speaking. I drop off extra whiskey barrels, scrounge large growing containers, including some potting soil if they have a desire to take up gardening.
I’m the crazy lady you see pulling to the side of the road to scrounge thrown out flower pots and containers in the fall. Most still have all of the potting mix still in them. One year’s plant growth won’t deplete the mix, and I know how to refresh the mix anyway. Don’t pick up diseased plants, dear readers, if you are thinking of scrounging this way.
Don’t mean to rain on your parade, Richard. Just want to remind you of pitfalls. I DO think those extra spaces, combined with knowledge of how to grow plants, will become extremely valuable if we ever get to serious financial crisis again (Great Depression/ Venezuela situations.) I encourage all of my tenants to grow a container of tomatoes, or flowers, at the very least. Especially if they have kids. Not enough of us have these skills. --70.92.xxx.xxx |
Every Square Foot (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2019 11:03 AM Message:
Two problems:
1. If vegetables are growing on their property, they'll assume they're theirs, or will at least steal a percentage of the crop.
2. If you use their water, they're paying to water the garden. I suspect you'll get resistance on this and you'll find your garden drying up.
3. Also some produce is going to be eaten by animals, insects, etc.
The labor costs will drastically cut into the profits. And I'm sure your harvest output will be much lower than expected. You need to space plants so you can't pack that many in your land without sacrificing harvest.
However, if you're going to do this, try planting expensive produce producing plants.
Maybe you could use that land for solar cells and sell the electrical harvest to the utility company or raise the rent since it will reduce their utilities. Zero maintenance, zero watering, and you could use the roof instead of the yard. --108.69.xxx.xxx |
Every Square Foot (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2019 11:07 AM Message:
Maybe install a parking area in part of the yard for large RVs, trailers, etc. I could see a fenced in trailer parking area being attractive to a construction or yard maintenance worker. --108.69.xxx.xxx |
Every Square Foot (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2019 11:13 AM Message:
Thanks for your advice.
Yes, there are certainly plenty of things to consider here. Water, potential pollution, parking and more.
I do think that most can be dealt with though.
I can run a fence around the rental and limit the tenants to inside the fence, per the agreement (I'd likely do this upon change of tenant, not in the middle of their lease). I can include water (many cities here make property owner responsible anyway, so it's easier to have it in my name and Bill tenant. I can establish averages, easily and go from there. Or have my own well - many places here have private wells).
Pollution? Most of my places are mobiles, built after 1976, and have wood paneling or were made after lead paint was discontinued, so small chance of problems here. Also, I could do raised beds and have topsoil delivered.
Again, thanks for input and ideas.
Also, location here factors into the idea. I have no downtown properties or condos. --23.121.xx.xxx |
Every Square Foot (by LindaJ [NY]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2019 11:20 AM Message:
My properties are on multiple acres of land. I own them because I believe the land in the location it is will be a money maker. The house that I rent pays for that. I just sold one for a development.
But these are 2 families (or main house and apt) with barns or garages that we might be using. So these people are used to us being there, and other people too. One has gardens on the front field, but those that use the gardens know they are only allowed the field and are not to be on the lawn of the house. I have a section utilized for beehives. They too only get to go to the hives. Then tenants also get to keep chickens, horses or other farm animals if I approve.
The one family house, the property around it is part of the tenants rental, so nothing else will be done around them.
I do see your wanting to utilize all of it, but I also think that single family rentals want the privacy of being somewhat in control of the yard and will pay more for that. --108.4.xxx.xx |
Every Square Foot (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2019 11:38 AM Message:
While you are gathering ideas, take look at hugelkulture. Very interesting concept, at least to me. I’m giving this a test run in a couple of my raised beds. So far, so good. --70.92.xxx.xxx |
Every Square Foot (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2019 12:23 PM Message:
Busy,
That hugelkultur idea looks interesting. I'm going to to check that out more.
Thanks for the tip. --23.121.xx.xxx |
Every Square Foot (by Mike45 [NV]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2019 12:35 PM Message:
Richard, if you fence in the rental, including the yards, at turn-over, then the next tenant will understand what land his rental includes, leaving you free to make other arrangements for the extra land.
Have you considered a sharecropping arrangement? My understanding is that the sharecropper farms and splits the proceeds with the landowner. I have no experience with this kind of thing.
--71.38.xx.xx |
Every Square Foot (by JB [OR]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2019 1:14 PM Message:
I like your somewhat out of the box thinking here. I'm not sure how feasible it will be. On top of the challenges some of the others posted above, you could have issues with vandals, thieves, the kids from the rental house trashing the gardens, other pests and animals, etc.
Will you be responsible when your garden renter has their garden trashed by someone? How about if it may have been your renters' children? Lots of moving parts here. May be much less appealing than anticipated.
--24.20.xxx.xxx |
Every Square Foot (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2019 1:21 PM Message:
Two other caveats: restroom facilities and farmer’s market license fees, if any.
Restroom is easy enough for any old farm kid to figure out. Might mean you have to plant a few bushes off to the side for privacy. Easy enough to do.
Check to see if your area has begun imposing any licensing fees for selling produce at farmer’s markets, or even with just a roadside stand. Most likely not, but, at least one state I know of has those fees, and, they are steep! (A state that gets much discussed on this board for the very restrictive landlord policies as well. That state seems just bent on driving all of the start-up self-employed away. Sheesh!)
In my community, there are several old farmers who simply plant pumpkins and gourds. Then in September-October, they put out the hay wagons loaded with all sizes of colorful pumpkins and gourds, very strong drop boxes welded to the frames of the wagons for payments, stick up their clever signs, and do all the selling completely on the honor system. We took our grandkids this year just to get decorations for our yard, and there was a slow steady trickle of other patrons. Not a farmer in sight, though the farmhouses are near enough, they might have been watching from behind the curtains. I know we dropped about ten-twelve dollars into the strongbox. And the grandkids had fun! --70.92.xxx.xxx |
Every Square Foot (by fred [CA]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2019 5:38 PM Message:
Busy, We have to vote what toilet paper brand to use behind the bush. --99.59.x.xxx |
Every Square Foot (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2019 6:10 PM Message:
Fred, here in the Midwest burdock weed leaves work great. Soft, not irritating. Nicer than the fancy two ply stuff. Grows everywhere. When the kids are sent out in the back forty acres to pull weeds in the soybean fields, all day, we knew where to a burdock plant when needed. --70.92.xxx.xxx |
Every Square Foot (by David [MI]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2019 6:13 PM Message:
to be clear, someone paying the premium to rent a SFH is going to be expecting to rent EVERYTHING , that means the whole house, the garage, the driveway, the patio, the deck and every square feet of the yard. It's just not reasonable to not only expect the tenants to let you grow veggies , but to allow other people access to the property to tend to them
--50.4.xxx.x |
Every Square Foot (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2019 6:47 PM Message:
Certainly a fair point David. OTOH, there are those who want to live out away from other people, but wouldn’t mind a quiet farmer going about his business, if tenant was alone. A lot of ifs in that though. --70.92.xxx.xxx |
Every Square Foot (by JKJ [MA]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2019 6:48 PM Message:
I agree with Landlord of the flies, solar farming so to speak would be the way to go. Seems to me it would be larger profits and much lower maintenance than growing fruits and vegetables. A lot of people that do the farmers markets around my area are hobby farmers, they enjoy farming and selling some of their harvest, eggs, etc etc helps cover the costs. To actually make a profit you would have to grow and maintain a fairly large crop, that requires a considerable amount of time and effort. In order to grow a large enough crop to not just break even but be profitable, you would need to transform a lot of your average SFH yards into farmable plots. Then there’s the questions like does it require a re-zoning from residential to farming, how would it affect the rental, would you have to lower the rent because their yard is now a commercial farm, and would the profit from farming the yard be more than the reduction in rental income? Would it be harder to find a tenant due to the fact that the unit they are looking to rent’s yard is being used as commercial farmland? Farmers work sun up to sundown and history has shown they aren’t exactly raking in profits, many are struggling to keep their heads above water. I just don’t see this as profitable or feasible. --71.248.xxx.xxx |
Every Square Foot (by JR [ME]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2019 7:23 PM Message:
If I rented a SFH and the landlord rented out the backyard so some stranger could garden out there, I’d move. --98.13.xx.xxx |
Every Square Foot (by Lynda [TX]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2019 7:41 PM Message:
I own a small SFH on a large property. This neighborhood has not-exactly alleyways, but city-right-of-way lanes between the back yard fences for electricity, telephone line access. Many homes in the area have gates in their back fences that access the lane. Down the street someone had an RV in their back yard. I thought I could easily fence off half the backyard and put an RV there too. But I was told it was not allowed. I mentioned that owners on the same street has done the same thing. The town clerk replied that they had to sign a paper that no one would live there--even a family member. It was to be a parking place only for the vehicle. (Altho how would they know if a hose and an electric cord was stretched out there?) It could work for a teenager or an in-law, but surely was illegal for a 2nd tenant on the same property. Bummer! --108.87.xx.xxx |
Every Square Foot (by JB [OR]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2019 8:33 PM Message:
One other thought on this, Richard. What sort of liability do you suppose you might have if someone you allowed to come and have access to garden on a part of your tenants' properties were to sexually or physically attack or harm a tenant or one of their children at some point? Better have some great insurance and a very good lawyer... --24.20.xxx.xxx |
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