heat problems
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heat problems (by Bill [NJ]) Nov 9, 2018 8:52 AM
       heat problems (by Vee [OH]) Nov 9, 2018 9:22 AM
       heat problems (by Richard [MI]) Nov 9, 2018 9:35 AM
       heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Nov 9, 2018 9:45 AM
       heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Nov 9, 2018 9:59 AM
       heat problems (by myob [GA]) Nov 9, 2018 12:14 PM
       heat problems (by CX [WA]) Nov 9, 2018 12:37 PM
       heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Nov 9, 2018 2:25 PM
       heat problems (by AllyM [NJ]) Nov 9, 2018 4:44 PM
       heat problems (by Robert J [CA]) Nov 9, 2018 5:27 PM
       heat problems (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Nov 9, 2018 5:49 PM
       heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Nov 9, 2018 6:31 PM
       heat problems (by razorback_tim [AR]) Nov 9, 2018 7:06 PM
       heat problems (by razorback_tim [AR]) Nov 9, 2018 7:08 PM
       heat problems (by CX [WA]) Nov 9, 2018 8:09 PM
       heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Nov 9, 2018 8:33 PM
       heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Nov 9, 2018 8:50 PM
       heat problems (by Don [PA]) Nov 9, 2018 9:54 PM
       heat problems (by Vee [OH]) Nov 10, 2018 5:10 AM
       heat problems (by nhsailmaker [NH]) Nov 10, 2018 5:21 AM
       heat problems (by Nellie [ME]) Nov 10, 2018 5:28 AM
       heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Nov 10, 2018 9:26 AM
       heat problems (by RentsDue [MA]) Nov 10, 2018 10:28 AM
       heat problems (by AllyM [NJ]) Nov 10, 2018 11:14 AM
       heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Nov 10, 2018 11:59 AM
       heat problems (by Wilma [PA]) Nov 10, 2018 12:02 PM
       heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Nov 10, 2018 12:10 PM
       heat problems (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Nov 10, 2018 9:51 PM
       heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Nov 11, 2018 5:54 AM
       heat problems (by CX [WA]) Nov 11, 2018 12:27 PM
       heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Nov 11, 2018 2:57 PM
       heat problems (by Robin [WI]) Nov 12, 2018 6:10 AM
       heat problems (by Nicole [PA]) Nov 12, 2018 6:13 AM
       heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Nov 12, 2018 7:44 AM
       heat problems (by Charlie [CT]) Nov 12, 2018 10:03 PM
       heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Nov 13, 2018 7:12 AM
       heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Nov 15, 2018 11:55 AM


heat problems (by Bill [NJ]) Posted on: Nov 9, 2018 8:52 AM
Message:

Please don’t tell me what I should have done, because I feel dumb enough:-) I’m looking to see how I can get the heating company, who just installed a heating system, to make it work well.

I replaced a 4-year-old furnace with a new one, because the company told be the existing system was over-sized and nothing could be done to get the system to equally heat and cool the rooms in the apartment.

Now the new two-zone system is in, and there’s 3 out of 6 bedrooms on the lower floor, that have little hot air flow out of the registers and are cold. The technician came in and told me the heat load calculations are done assuming bedrooms doors are left open and told me the bedroom doors need to be kept open for the rooms to be heated. I rent to students, and most of them close the doors of their bedrooms.

How can I “light a fire” under this company to get the system to warm the cold rooms? Should I write a bad yelp review and see if they respond? Should I take them to small claims court? Any ideas?

I paid $8k for this new heating/cooling system and it works no better than the old one :-(

Thanks!! - Bill

--71.104.xx.x




heat problems (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Nov 9, 2018 9:22 AM
Message:

Cut 6x10 grille openings into each door so there will be air flow - hard to get treated air in when the other air won't come out. --76.188.xxx.xx




heat problems (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Nov 9, 2018 9:35 AM
Message:

I agree with Vee. Cut holes near bottom and top, not just bottem. Air circulation is necessary. --23.121.xx.xxx




heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Nov 9, 2018 9:45 AM
Message:

I haven't tested it, but I think with the doors open, the rooms would still be cold. There's hardly any air coming out of the registers in the bedrooms. --71.104.xx.x




heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Nov 9, 2018 9:59 AM
Message:

I think the problem is the original duct work wasn't done well. The furnace is on the top floor, and from the main trunk, there's three elbows connected to each other, that go down to a 11 x 14 duct, to the floor below. The 11 x 14 duct runs for about 20 feet on the floor below and tees out to two 8" diameter ducts that go to the front and rear bedrooms. There's no dampers in the system other than the zone control dampers.

The heating guy told me that once the furnace was sized properly, the air flow to the four lower floor bedrooms would improve. It didn't happen though. --71.104.xx.x




heat problems (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Nov 9, 2018 12:14 PM
Message:

Well you could get another company to evaluate the system to see if it's sized right? We have this complaint constantly when old folks live in a place. They put furniture in front of returns and vents.

There is a meter to check wind velocity. I'm leaning more to the reason there was a larger unit in the place was it had bad flow and previous person who owned it up graded. Did the ducts get changed also-- because ducts are sized for volume also?

I know closing doors affect temp but not flow. Downstairs registers in winter need to be wide open-- upstairs partially closed. Since heat rises need more hot air to the lower unit and will naturally drift up. --99.103.xxx.xxx




heat problems (by CX [WA]) Posted on: Nov 9, 2018 12:37 PM
Message:

A little hard to tell from your description but apparently some rooms are not getting enough air flow out of the registers?

Check for blockage in the ducts (I have found toys, stuffed animals, towels) and disconnected (or partially disconnected) ducting, especially at elbows and transitions.

If the ducting is intact than you can look into installing an air duct booster fan.

https://www.houselogic.com/organize-maintain/home-maintenance-tips/booster-fans/ --174.21.xxx.xxx




heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Nov 9, 2018 2:25 PM
Message:

5 years ago I had a fire and the house got rebuilt with new duct work. I think the system was designed by the architect and then "tweaked" by the heating company. I don't think the system ever worked well and I only become aware of the cold (and hot) rooms 4 years after the installation. A heating company came in and told me the furnace was over-sized and only a properly sized furnace/AC would fix the problem. The left the duct work as-is and put in the new two-zone heat/AC unit.

The suggestions are good, I just wish I could get the heating company I paid $8k to fix the problem. It has been less than a year since the new system was installed.

I think I will get on-line and write some bad reviews for the company and see if that spurs them into action. I've done that before and gotten some results. I was wondering if filing in small claims would be more effective. --71.104.xx.x




heat problems (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Nov 9, 2018 4:44 PM
Message:

I have a two br first floor with gas hot air that has cold bedrooms. The heater is in the basement and heat does rise but the two brs face north and there is only one duct. Do you have more than one duct coming in? Are they north facing rooms? I added a little baseboard heat in each room to help with the problems of north facing rooms and hot air heat. I think the vent fans someone suggested could be your answer also. --73.178.xxx.xx




heat problems (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Nov 9, 2018 5:27 PM
Message:

I am a licensed building contractor with 6 other specialty class licenses. When I employ a Air Conditioning and Heating Contractor, I make sure I do the following:

1) Outline the scope of the to be performed

2) Have them provide a list of equipment and supplies on my job

3) Get a price and time frame.

4) Then conclude what I want done and have them issue me a signed written estimate.

5) If all is okay, then have them issue me a contract.

6) Include in the contract for a "payment and performance bond".

Then if the finished job doesn't live up to the details of the contract, I give the contractor 1 chance to remedy the issues. Then I contact the Performance Bonding Company and request either my MONEY BACK or the JOB BE DONE RIGHT as per the Specification in the contract. Within a reasonable time frame if the job isn't corrected, I contact the Main Headquarters of the Insurance Carrier, a billion dollar concern, and make a demand on my full refund. Then I contact the insurance commissioner and have the contractors license pulled and the insurance company bared from doing business in the state. A guarantee bond can not be ignored. Action has to be taken. --47.156.xx.xx




heat problems (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Nov 9, 2018 5:49 PM
Message:

Often a heating is installed without the first consideration why a heating is required in the first place. In the past many buildings were poorly insulated where there was a considerable heat loss or heat gain in the summer. If a house had R70 in the ceiling and R50 in the walls there would be no need for a heating system. If own a thermal camera then can scan the walls to check the difference in temperature. In the house one bedroom is poorly insulated where the temperature is always lower then rest of house. When it was -20 outside the wall was 0 degrees Celsius which is freezing. Since removing all the fiberglass insulation in the wall then installing insulation foam the one wall has less of heat loss where going to do the other wall as well. Upgrading the insulation in the cooler rooms along with installing new windows will balance the system out. Often many buildings the north side is cooler as there is no thermal gain on sunny days. Fiberglass is the worst insulation out there where spray foam has the least heat transfer. Heating a poorly insulated building once the furnace shuts down the rooms already start to feel cold again. Also check out videos on You Tube about upgrading insulation. --147.194.xxx.xx




heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Nov 9, 2018 6:31 PM
Message:

I'm told insulating the walls will cost big bucks. I do have new windows. I suspect there may be a fair amount of air leaks that I could seal. I thought putting up some curtains on some pretty big windows might help.

It is frustrating though, after paying $8k that I still have these cold rooms.

I'm wishing I could send the heat company a letter and they would install some duct fans or something like that.

Thanks - Bill --71.104.xx.x




heat problems (by razorback_tim [AR]) Posted on: Nov 9, 2018 7:06 PM
Message:

Sounds like you may need to get gates installed on each line coming off the main trunk and have them set so that the load is balanced. That means equal airflow would be coming out of each register. --166.137.xxx.xx




heat problems (by razorback_tim [AR]) Posted on: Nov 9, 2018 7:08 PM
Message:

Google “balancing HVAC registers” --70.178.x.xx




heat problems (by CX [WA]) Posted on: Nov 9, 2018 8:09 PM
Message:

Five years since the system was installed? You would have had more leverage to get them to fix it within the first few months after the install, but now 5 years later they probably are not going to want to do anything more. --174.21.xxx.xxx




heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Nov 9, 2018 8:33 PM
Message:

To clarify, 5 years ago I had a fire and got a new heating system installed. It didn’t work well and about 8 months ago I got a new furnace and two zone heat/AC system installed. That hasn’t worked well either. --71.104.xx.x




heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Nov 9, 2018 8:50 PM
Message:

Razorback, I'm pretty sure the problem is insufficient duct work from the furnace to the rooms below. From the main trunk to the floor below, there are 3 elbows in a row. The system installed 5 years ago was shutting down before the set point was reached (short cycling) because there wasn't enough air flow over the burner section and the system would shut down because it got too hot. I was assured once the new system was installed, it would operate well, but it is still short cycling when only a single zone is running, and the airflow coming out of the registers on the floor below is weak. Thanks! --71.104.xx.x




heat problems (by Don [PA]) Posted on: Nov 9, 2018 9:54 PM
Message:

You had a problem (poor heating to some rooms) and you paid an expert good money to remedy that problem. It was their job to design the remedy. They did not. Sue them.

Cutting vents into bedroom doors is ridiculous, at most, an air gap of an inch at the bottom will allow air to flow. However, the company that you paid did not say you would have to do even that, so do not do it yet. --69.244.xx.xx




heat problems (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Nov 10, 2018 5:10 AM
Message:

After reading more into this it seems your return is not large enough or large enough from the longer distance rooms, can you verify the long distance runs are opening and closing? Short cycling is mostly caused by the return air shortage and the heat can not get out so the safety turns off the flames while the fan continues to send out treated air, I assumes you have 2 temp controls so lowering the upper room temps would close those dampers then forcing all the treated air down and this should make a significant increase in flow. I am thinking there is a wire that has broken from vibrations or simply never tight and fell off to get the flow to the lower rooms. --76.188.xxx.xx




heat problems (by nhsailmaker [NH]) Posted on: Nov 10, 2018 5:21 AM
Message:

BILL - many states require their utilities to participate in weatherization efforts. Here our electric company pays 50% of insulation , etc costs

go on line and do research or call your state energy dept.

Insulation and air sealing is a science and you need proper equipment like duct blaster, infrared, etc.

you don't even know if your duct trunk line has a problem as you keep addressing the source heat. --73.114.xx.xx




heat problems (by Nellie [ME]) Posted on: Nov 10, 2018 5:28 AM
Message:

I would explain to the company that it is recommended that bedroom doors be kept closed when sleeping so the heat load calculations need to be redone and the system fixed accordingly. Maybe a heat return duct needs to be put in all the rooms. --64.222.xxx.xx




heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Nov 10, 2018 9:26 AM
Message:

Don, I’m thinking first a letter to the company, and then consider taking them to small claims court. One problem I see is, the heating company contract says they will install x equipment. There’s no performance guarantee like “all the rooms will be within 4 degrees of each other”.

Vee, I’m not sure what you mean by verify the runs are opening and closing. The only dampers in the system are the two zone control dampers for the two floors. I thought the short cycling was due to supply side ducting, as the return was large. The problem with the original system was the top floor was hot, and as soon as you tried to damper the top floor duct to balance the system, it would shut down on high limit. When they checked the pressures, they said the differential was like 4 times was it was supposed to be. (the difference of return and supply pressures, I believe)

Nhsailmaker, I was told NJ used to give out a lot of $ for these projects, but not anymore. When I had insulation/heating companies come out, it seems like they don’t want to touch the house unless I’m spending like $20k for insulation and new heating equipment. I couldn't even get a real energy audit done. I was told real energy auditors got put out of business by the state programs.

Nellie, so far the company has not been responsive other than to send out a guy that thought 76 was the highest you could set the thermostat and tell me everything is ok, just need to keep the doors open.

Thank you all for taking the time to write!!

--71.104.xx.x




heat problems (by RentsDue [MA]) Posted on: Nov 10, 2018 10:28 AM
Message:

I get heat complaints from college kids because the bedrooms don’t heat up as fast as the rest of the house. Same scenario- they keep the doors closed all the time. Families who have lived at the SAME property do not have that problem because they leave the doors open. Heating tech told them to use common sense . If they come in the house and crank up the thermostat in the open floor plan main living area it gets up to temp pretty quickly and then shuts off like it’s supposed to. The closed up bedrooms don’t get a chance to heat up and they don’t have thermostats in them to call for more heat. If they start at a moderate temperature and let it rise the house will heat evenly. If they left it at a decent temp instead of turning it down every time they leave it would be helpful too. Electric baseboard compensates for the area farthest from the heating zone. --71.10.xxx.xxx




heat problems (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Nov 10, 2018 11:14 AM
Message:

I have larger windows in one of the two colder room. One is a huge bay window with double panes but that is a lot of window. Drapes only work a bit since the air drops off the colder window onto the floor. Just one short run of baseboard heat should fix each room. Just a couple feet with a thermostat on/off switch. It's just New Jersey. --73.178.xxx.xx




heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Nov 10, 2018 11:59 AM
Message:

Thanks AllyM, baseboard heat is an interesting idea. I've always thought super expensive to run, but I have one in a common space hallway and it's not too much. I see they make hardwired 110 volt, 750 watt units for $50. I wonder If I could do a wall mounted thermostat? Individual room heat control might be a nice selling feature. And thanks for the heads-up on the drapes.

RentsDue, the cold bedrooms are a steady-state condition in the cold weather. The rooms are not well insulated and there is not much hot air coming out of the registers. --71.104.xx.x




heat problems (by Wilma [PA]) Posted on: Nov 10, 2018 12:02 PM
Message:

Any fire marshall will tell you that bedroom doors should be closed at night to keep any fire from spreading faster, and keep the smoke out. Go after them, their argument is ridiculous. --71.175.xxx.xxx




heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Nov 10, 2018 12:10 PM
Message:

Thanks Wilma, your point is well taken about keeping the doors shut for fire safety. --71.104.xx.x




heat problems (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Nov 10, 2018 9:51 PM
Message:

In the house slowly insulating by spray foam where breaking out a wall then spray foaming wall. Most building supply stores sell DIY spray foam kits. Focusing on the worst walls then over time will be reduce the heat loss to a lower level. You Tube has many helpful videos on spray foam kits. In the house there is 3 1/4" space which leaves out many other types of insulating to maximize insulation. Here most new houses use 6" studs which leaves more room for insulation. Using a thermal camera the difference can be seen along with room is lot warmer. Houses built in eighties had very low levels of insulation as the solution was to install a larger furnace to cover the heat loss. So in the end a larger furnace does not work as the heat and cool cycle once the furnace shuts off. Presently have high efficiency 50,000 furnace. Changed out a dishwasher where found the wall very cool which means that wall will be next for spray foam. --147.194.xxx.xx




heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Nov 11, 2018 5:54 AM
Message:

Hmmm..Insulation,electric baseboard, duct fans. I still come back to getting the heating company, who installed the system, to make the rooms warm. You just don't feel much warm air coming out of the registers, in the cold rooms.

I think I will start by contacting the guy at the company who told me I need a new furnace. Next, write a letter to the company. The company is Artic Air. They're big and have the resources to fix my problem, if I can somehow motivate them to do it.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to write. I really appreciate it. Bill --71.104.xx.x




heat problems (by CX [WA]) Posted on: Nov 11, 2018 12:27 PM
Message:

BillW your last 3 posts supplied us with much more important info to help you with your problem.

There are duct sizing calculators online that can tell you how long a duct run can be for a given diameter and number of elbows. Each elbow decreases the flow quite a bit, more than we think. Looks like the supply duct runs to the "cold" rooms are undersized given the number of elbows and (possibly) the length of the runs. This SHOULD HAVE been addressed by the company replacing the furnace. What was listed in the work contract?

About baseboard heat: Yes generally more expen$ive to run but can be an easy solution for where "auxilliary" heat is sporadically needed. Wall mounted thermostats are available for baseboard heaters but are beefier (they have to control 120VAC or 240VAC instead of 24V current) and more spendy. Plus you have to run the high voltage wiring from the heater to the tstat, usually thru the floor and wall because the tsat should be on a wall not directly near the baseboard heater. --174.21.xxx.xxx




heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Nov 11, 2018 2:57 PM
Message:

Thanks CX, the reason I didn't initially provide details on the system, is that I wanted to get some ideas on how to motivate the heating company, who put in the system, to fix it vs. more time and money from me to fix it.

That being said, I do believe the problem is what you described, that is, not enough flow through the ducts. Right out of the main trunk there are three elbows going to the floor below (cold rooms) I see the control damper they used to zone the floor with the cold bedrooms is 12" x 10" and this is connected to a 14" x 12" duct, so the damper itself decreases the flow area.

I don't think the contract says anything relevant to improving an undersized duct condition. They did tell me they would improve the 3 elbow situation, but they did not.

Thanks again CX - Bill --71.104.xx.x




heat problems (by Robin [WI]) Posted on: Nov 12, 2018 6:10 AM
Message:

I had an issue with an HVAC company that charged me $375 to install a $25 capacitor. When I challenged them on the final bill, they admitted that the tech had installed an oversized (=$$$) capacitor because he didn't have the proper one in his truck. I wrote a polite letter stating that I had contemplated sharing my experience on social media, but wanted to give them the opportunity to make it right first.

They made it right. --204.210.xxx.xxx




heat problems (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: Nov 12, 2018 6:13 AM
Message:

I stopped reading the technical answers because I certainly don't know that answer.

For results of the company coming out to troubleshoot, call the company and speak to the owner. If you can't get him on the phone, e-mail. In other words, go WAY above the technician's head. Ask for a supervisor and a head technician to come out and evaluate....not the salesman, not the bottom tier installer. --72.70.xxx.xxx




heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Nov 12, 2018 7:44 AM
Message:

Thank you Robin, I think your approach is nice way to go: A polite letter with a quick mention you'd love to share your great experience on-line :-).

I was inspired by both of you and couldn't wait, so I followed Nicole's suggestion, and put together my talking points (below), and looked on-line for the owner's name and gave the company a call. I told them who I was and the job address, and they said the owner will call me tonight or tomorrow. We'll see, but I'm confident I'll get to talk to the owner.

Thank you!! - Bill

• 1920 big house, 6 bedroom apartment on two floors.

• Fire 6 years ago and new heating system by architect and heating company. In Winter Hot rooms on top floor and cold on lower floor. Short cycling.

• In March of this year Connor came in said the pressure delta from the return and supply was way high, unit oversized and once proper sized all will be better. Installed new furnace and AC two zones.

• Now the hot bedroom on top floor is cold and the bedrooms on lower floors still cold and system is still short cycling.

• Little air flow from registers in four cold bedrooms.

My solution: on top floor just straighten out flexible duct or replace with rigid.

On bottom floor install two duct fans that are come on when heat is called for.

Stop it from short cycling.

--71.104.xx.x




heat problems (by Charlie [CT]) Posted on: Nov 12, 2018 10:03 PM
Message:

Bill Wilso,I’m here in Southern Connecticut and to give you a solution to your problem in Jersey is well nigh impossible If you were in Northern California , keeping the heat to a tolerable level might be a challenge.I wouldn’t sue the company Better hold on to your cash and next Spring pay a couple of strong of the back and weak of the mind to move your furnace own to the basement area.................heat rises more easily than the other way. ..........Charlie.......zzz...........,,,,,,,, ........... --32.214.xxx.xx




heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Nov 13, 2018 7:12 AM
Message:

Well, I called the heating company and i'm going to meet the service manager, tomorrow to show him the problems. We'll see.... --71.104.xx.x




heat problems (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Nov 15, 2018 11:55 AM
Message:

In a nutshell, the service manager said he could make the one cold room, next to the furnace warm. For the other cold rooms on the lower floor, he said there was nothing they could do, as the duct work was in place.

I told him the reason I got the new system was because I was told those cold rooms would be made warm. but he no response.

I asked him about putting duct fans in. He said that wouldn't help.

So...I guess they'll fix the one cold room, near the furnace, and I'm stuck with three cold rooms.

Maybe I'll put some electric baseboards in the cold rooms. --71.104.xx.x





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