Water Leaks & Tenants
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Water Leaks & Tenants (by Christine[ [VA]) Aug 15, 2018 3:37 AM
       Water Leaks & Tenants (by Mickie [OH]) Aug 15, 2018 4:14 AM
       Water Leaks & Tenants (by fred [CA]) Aug 15, 2018 4:28 AM
       Water Leaks & Tenants (by NE [PA]) Aug 15, 2018 4:31 AM
       Water Leaks & Tenants (by fred [CA]) Aug 15, 2018 4:46 AM
       Water Leaks & Tenants (by Ken [NY]) Aug 15, 2018 5:14 AM
       Water Leaks & Tenants (by plenty [MO]) Aug 15, 2018 5:31 AM
       Water Leaks & Tenants (by Vee [OH]) Aug 15, 2018 5:33 AM
       Water Leaks & Tenants (by moby [IN]) Aug 15, 2018 5:48 AM
       Water Leaks & Tenants (by S i d [MO]) Aug 15, 2018 5:59 AM
       Water Leaks & Tenants (by Richard [MI]) Aug 15, 2018 6:17 AM
       Water Leaks & Tenants (by Jasper [OH]) Aug 15, 2018 6:24 AM
       Water Leaks & Tenants (by Chris [VA]) Aug 15, 2018 7:16 AM
       Water Leaks & Tenants (by Still Learning [NH]) Aug 15, 2018 7:20 AM
       Water Leaks & Tenants (by Chris [VA]) Aug 15, 2018 7:39 AM
       Water Leaks & Tenants (by NE [PA]) Aug 15, 2018 7:45 AM
       Water Leaks & Tenants (by Small potatoes [NY]) Aug 15, 2018 10:36 AM
       Water Leaks & Tenants (by Robin [FL]) Aug 15, 2018 11:05 AM
       Water Leaks & Tenants (by cjo'h [CT]) Aug 15, 2018 11:10 AM
       Water Leaks & Tenants (by RR78 [VA]) Aug 15, 2018 4:51 PM
       Water Leaks & Tenants (by gevans [SC]) Aug 16, 2018 3:30 AM
       Water Leaks & Tenants (by Chris [VA]) Aug 16, 2018 4:48 AM


Water Leaks & Tenants (by Christine[ [VA]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2018 3:37 AM
Message:

We had two tenants / families move this summer after 7 years and after 11 years. We're still working on getting those two houses ready for the market.

A 3rd house has a hidden water leak that we've been working on with insurance, probably in the wall. Tomorrow ServPro will contain the kitchen. This means the tenants will have no access to the kitchen or washer & dryer (which are behind bifold doors in the kitchen) for several days. All lower cabinets will also be removed as this subtle leak showed no visible signs on the floor or on the subfloor in the crawl when the insulation was pulled back. The floor and subfloor appeared dry, but a moisture meter then told us a different story, and the water has been trapped between the sheet vinyl surface and perhaps the vapor barrier, but has spread throughout the room and a little beyond. (ServPro put a very large dehumidifier in the middle of the kitchen last week after cutting and covering a couple of test holes in the kitchen floor.)

ServPro advised us to advise tenants that they can request temporary quarters from their renters' insurance if desired. (They do have renters' insurance - because we require it and because tenants are also required to send us policy information.)

Bottom line is that we just got this e-mail from the husband: "In regards to the kitchen repairs, there has been a large dehumidifier running nonstop in our kitchen for almost a full week which will have a big impact on our electric bill. Additionally we will be without the use of our kitchen for a expected five day period, which prevents cooking and laundry from being done. Normally we would not ask for anything if there was a one, two, or three days of work being done or something with a small to medium level of inconvenience. ...we don't ask for reimbursement on smaller things ... but with this level of work, inconvenience, and an impact on our electric services we would like consideration towards a reduction in paid rent next month."

Sounds nice enough, and though we won't reduce rent (the holy grail), we may do something complimentary like a gift card or what not. We are reluctant to give any kind of cash or funds toward their electric bill. If we give something, we would like it to be memorable. Any thoughts on this?

BTW, these are the least favorite tenants we've ever had after doing this with four homes since 2001. The wife especially can be a combative and arrogant know-it-all type. The husband can go either way. They had a small kitchen fire a couple of years ago which their renters' insurance covered, yet they complained to us about the inconvenience of the repair work being done after THEIR fire. Invalid complaints are easily ignored, but the wife really pushes it to the point that we might not renew when the current lease ends in 2020.

They've been there 8-1/2 years; most all of our tenants tend to stay for a really long time. Their four daughters were in junior high and high school when they moved in and now a couple of them are married, another is in college, and another in nursing school. The daughters are great and we would rent to them in a heartbeat, but the mother is over the top with her arrogant combative manner. (The husband went on disability a few years ago for PTSD.)

Any ideas on how to respond to the tenant request? Thanks...."

--71.246.xxx.xx




Water Leaks & Tenants (by Mickie [OH]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2018 4:14 AM
Message:

I would find out if the insurance would cover the amount of the electric bill - it's a long shot but worth checking. If they can't use the kitchen and have a microwave that can be moved into another room to nuke things that, paper plates & bowls take care of meals. It's only 5 days. Laundry... well pick another laundry day. It's only 5 days. Memorable.. I'd go with a basket loaded with paper plates, bowls, plastic cutlery, cups. Napkins and a gift certificate for local restaurant or pizza joint but nothing extravagant. Give them the happy clause option and keep right on Landlording along like normal. It's inconvenient yes but not the end of the world. If the insurance won't take care of the extra electric used have them show you the last bill. Note the acct number and what their normal amount paid. When they get their next electric bill have them send you a copy and note the difference. Don't pay them the difference but pay the difference to the electric company or an ageed upon amount. That would be a fair way to deal with it. --174.233.x.xxx




Water Leaks & Tenants (by fred [CA]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2018 4:28 AM
Message:

First find out whether their renter's insurance will cover temporary dwelling or not. I doubt the Ins Co would cover this.

As a LL, you have to provide a house which is considered worthy of living in. That includes good enough to cook in or do laundry in.

If not, the rental agreement is voidable. Offer your tenants 50% of temporary solution for the duration of the big repair job.

Your tenants have rights, and you don't want to end up in court with them on this issue. Remember, judges are 100% behind Ts and less than 100% behind LLs. --99.59.x.xxx




Water Leaks & Tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2018 4:31 AM
Message:

Is this an insurance claim repair or a fishing expedition by you to find the source of the leak? If it is insurance, I probably wouldn't give them anything. Maybe a slight reimbursement for electric.

Why such a long lease? Especially after they've been tenants for a while? --50.32.xxx.xxx




Water Leaks & Tenants (by fred [CA]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2018 4:46 AM
Message:

The extra electric use of a fan is not much, but the inability of using the kitchen and laundry is a big deal for some folks.

During our big quake, many homes became unhabitable and LLs had to forego the rent when Ts had to relocate, even temporarily. Work with your long term Ts.

This repair will not last 5 days, it will go on for longer than that. --99.59.x.xxx




Water Leaks & Tenants (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2018 5:14 AM
Message:

You cut holes in the kitchen floor,running a large fan for 5 days already and removing all the lower cabinets and some here think you don't owe them anything?I think you should be kissing there behind,they have to find somewhere else to eat and wash clothes or wait a week to wash clothes,there will be a mess they will end up cleaning regardless of how good it is left.All this for a supposed leak that doesn't even reach the floor?Where did the dea come from that there is a leak to start with? I am not convinced that there is a leak since you haven't even found it yet.After 8 1/2 years of living there I think I would ask them what they would call fair and give it to them,even a full months rent.Also giving them a gift card instead of cash doesn't really help them with the meals out on a credit card,memorable is nice for something small that didn't really cost them real money but this is costing them real money to eat out,i don't think the electric bill will be noticeable but if they think it will be that is what matters. --72.231.xxx.xxx




Water Leaks & Tenants (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2018 5:31 AM
Message:

That was a real nice letter they wrote.

I'd write back. Thank you and I'm not sure what we can do but let's see how the project goes and at the end we'll figure out the best way to honor your reqyest9. Until then the rent is due in full. And here is a gift card for $XX for breakfast and some laundry coins good at XX laundry on Street. Thanks for working thru this with us. Together you'll have a better house. --99.203.xx.xxx




Water Leaks & Tenants (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2018 5:33 AM
Message:

Somewhere your area prolly has a laundrymat, electric you will find about 6-10 bux higher, beyond that I would refer them to the insurance agent for temporary shelter. I like Mickie idea of the microwave meals - even a gift card to red robin for a dinner out would be helpful.

Bottom line is replace all the water lines, digging holes to make a patch is a waste of time but servepro loves that hourly billing. --76.188.xxx.xx




Water Leaks & Tenants (by moby [IN]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2018 5:48 AM
Message:

The product you sell as a landlord is not available due to a defect. Make it right with your customer, that will be memorable. Yes this may be expensive for you but there is risk in all ventures. Just my 2 cents. --68.60.xxx.xx




Water Leaks & Tenants (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2018 5:59 AM
Message:

I wouldn't have locked myself into a multi-year lease with a person with PTSD and a combative wife, but you did so....

Up to you. If you want to keep them, offer some kind of consideration. If not, thank them for their concerns and issue notice of non-renewal.

Side-note: tenants sometimes try to play the "reimburse us for the extra utility cost" card when they know next to nothing about what the utilities actually cost. A good size dehumidifier (70 pints) uses 750 watts per hour or 18kwH per day, if it runs 24/7. My utility company charges $0.054/khW plus a demand charge of $0.038/kwH during the "Summer" (May - Sept) for a total of $2.20 per day of running a dehumidifier non-stop 24/7.

So they're getting upset over $2.20 per day when many folks spend more than that on one cup of coffee.

10 days = about $22. Granted our rates are pretty low compared to most of the country, but really....double (or triple) it and your talking around $65 for a 10-day run.

Show them the math how to calculate it and add it up. Then if you feel like reimbursing them, go for it. I had a tenant ask me once to reimburse them for the electricity my handy man used to power his table saw when he did a small repair on a wood railing. We added it all up, and they dropped their claim after realizing it was less than $0.02. --173.19.x.xxx




Water Leaks & Tenants (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2018 6:17 AM
Message:

Argumentative? Combative?

Good bye.

These things happen, live with it.

Nothing is perfect and you do not "owe someone" if you can't deliver perfection.

Laundry delayed 2 days? Cry me a river. Are they serious? Eat out a few times? You've got to be joking. They probably eat out at least 2 or 3 times anyway over this period.

Happy clause. --66.188.xx.xxx




Water Leaks & Tenants (by Jasper [OH]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2018 6:24 AM
Message:

Agree with those who suggest making it right with these long term tenants, as much as a free month's rent. If they moved out today, you could not rent the house in it's current condition. Forget that they have been less than ideal in personality. They have paid you thousands over their extended tenancy. You must be doing something right to retain tenants. Continue to do so and move on with your life. --71.28.xx.xx




Water Leaks & Tenants (by Chris [VA]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2018 7:16 AM
Message:

Thank you for all the suggestions. We renewed their lease on April 30th - 60 days before the former lease ended on June 30th. They had a choice of a one-year or two-year lease (two years saves them some money).

(And yes, this is an insurance claim. The insurance adjuster is working directly with ServPro on our behalf.)

We considered not renewing with these tenants but had way too much other stuff going on with family events and stuff that will continue into October. And with two other long-term tenants moving and their homes requiring much in the way of upgrades, and a day job, and some health stuff requiring surgery that has to be delayed because of all of this, we couldn't add another move unless we hired a PM - which we don't want to do. So we will tolerate this person a bit longer. We can deal with the husband which at times is fine and at other times is difficult, but not as much as she is. (But if either of them gets too cantankerous, we will give them the Happy Clause.)

We just bite our tongues and ignore the wife as much as possible and deal mostly with the husband. He had a good job and went on disability probably about 4 or 5 years after they were in the house. The oldest daughter (who's married now) interrupted her college to come home back then "because the family needed her" ... we're not privy to the details, but rent is on time (ClearNow), though they appear to live paycheck to paycheck.

The wife was a part-time teacher's aide at a school when they first moved in but went to school and is now an LPN at a hospital and also works with the rescue squad and I believe is now an EMT.

As far as laundry, they have a cousin who rents a house about halfway down the block and across the street and I think they will survive. This is in a B+ suburban neighborhood with the top schools in the area.

So we will do something for them. I like Sid's idea of getting a calculation on the extra electricity cost and maybe giving them a WalMart gift certificate for the extra electricity amount, and also a restaurant gift card for the inconvenience. I'm also pondering the other suggestions and appreciate all of the insights.

(The tenants do know that their renters' insurance will help them with other arrangements if they choose to make use of that.)

--71.246.xxx.xx




Water Leaks & Tenants (by Still Learning [NH]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2018 7:20 AM
Message:

Have they checked with their renters insurance. Would their insurance subbrogate against your insurance? --76.89.xx.xxx




Water Leaks & Tenants (by Chris [VA]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2018 7:39 AM
Message:

They have not opted to check their insurance at this point. They might subrogate, but I don't think it would be successful as this is covered on their renters' and not on our policy. --71.246.xxx.xx




Water Leaks & Tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2018 7:45 AM
Message:

I'd be less likely to compensate anything other than maybe electric on an insurance claim. That's different than if you are in there tearing stuff up doing trouble shooting. They probably opted for a longer lease because they know they've got you somewhat on the hook. --50.32.xxx.xxx




Water Leaks & Tenants (by Small potatoes [NY]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2018 10:36 AM
Message:

The electric usage is an easy problem to solve. Install a watt meter between the outlet and the cord for the dehumidifier and you will know exactly how much electricity the dehumidifier consumes. Dehumidifiers do consume more electricity than you think. Then you can get a copy of their electric bill look at the itemized amount for a watt with the service charge included the delivery and calculate the expense and pay them for that amount exactly. Then add on the number days you ran it without the wattmeter and add that in simple. I do it all the time when I'm in a building and I don't have electric myself on a house meter and I need to use electric from a tenant. It's easy to understand and straightforward --99.203.xx.xxx




Water Leaks & Tenants (by Robin [FL]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2018 11:05 AM
Message:

Why don't you offer to prorate their rent for the days they cannot stay in the unit while the work is being done? The cost of their alternate accommodations is on them.

What does CA's law say about what should happen if a portion of the house is unusable? If I remember correctly, FL law is that the landlord would need to reduce the rent proportionately until the repair is completed. --108.188.xxx.xxx




Water Leaks & Tenants (by cjo'h [CT]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2018 11:10 AM
Message:

Christine,modify your lease,its too long ,send them the Happy Clause Starting yesterday,I wouldn't put up with that nonsense Of course I've only been doing this since 1957 Maybe you're doing it longer,and know something I don't?.........charlie........................they've been there too long and think they own the house Are you still paying the Pfoperty Taxes to the city or are they?............................................ --32.214.xxx.xx




Water Leaks & Tenants (by RR78 [VA]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2018 4:51 PM
Message:

I also would pro rate the rent.

I disagree with some of the others that this is a normal inconvenience or the tenants are being unreasonable. And pretty sure at least my local courts would agree.

--73.152.xx.xxx




Water Leaks & Tenants (by gevans [SC]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2018 3:30 AM
Message:

A large dehumidifier will use a significant amount of electricity.

It is exceptionally noisy and produces heat.

That means burning even more electricity trying to keep the house cool during August.

No kitchen, no cabinets, no laundry...

Sounds like more than a week to do the job.

You are causing your tenants significant loss of what they are paying you for monthly.

I would discount their rent entirely for the days this project runs, plus pay the difference in the electric bill. You can calculate that by looking at the amp draw or watts listed on the machine. It's running 24/7, so the calculation is easy.

My actions do not depend on my tenant's actions. I try to be a professional, quality businessman. Poor tenants may make we want to do otherwise, but ethics say I'm going to do the right thing no matter what they do.

Just me and my 2 cents.

--98.122.x.xx




Water Leaks & Tenants (by Chris [VA]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2018 4:48 AM
Message:

I completely agree with that, gevans - we will do the right thing regardless. In their presence we remain detached, courteous, and professional... we've just prayed a lot at the times when they've gotten more difficult over the years (though we've also vented privately).

We are looking at how we will compensate them for rent as well as extra utilities consumed. (They will submit September rent as usual through ClearNow and then we will rebate through a cashier's check at the same time. By then we should also be able to calculate the total costs affecting them.)

They did contact their renter's insurance yesterday and are thinking of utilizing it. Containment was yesterday and cabinet removal is today. We hope they find the source without too many complications. --71.246.xxx.xx





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