Hi everyone,

My tenant called me yesterday to let me know that the entire plaster ceiling in her large living room came down last Sunday around 10:30pm. Luckily nobody was injured. I still have no idea why it collapsed. It was not wet. My guess is that it could be because the ceiling has heat coil buried in the plaster (radiant heat). The repeat hot and cold for many decades wares it down (it was built around 1950's). My tenant afraid to stay in the apartment as the ceiling in other rooms are about the same age. So she's staying a hotel.

I called the insurance yesterday. The claim adjuster will call me back today to arrange the meetup. I have a few questions.

1. How do I talk to the insurance to have them replace ceilings in all rooms, not just the living room? This is for a safety reason.

2. I believe the insurance would pay for my tenant's hotel expense while we make a repair. Am I right?

3. Is there anything else I should know? I've never made any claims. This is the first time.

BTW the tenant is Section 8. The apartment is 3 bed 1 bath.

Thanks,

Patrick

plenty[MO], thank you for your response. Can I end the Section8 contract that easily? Agree with you on just moving to another room. I would just move to another room as well if this happens to my house.

Bad news. The insurance just denied my claim. They said it sounded like the ceiling just got old and collapsed. Unless I could get a building engineer to prove that something happened such as heavy weight object felt down to the floor above, construction, etc this is no covered :-( This will cost a lot to fix because it's not just a ceiling, but a ceiling with heat coil inside.

Clean out all old debris and strip ceiling to the walls.

Cut out old heating. Make the circuit dead that powered it.

Replace with drywall. Hang, finish, paint.

End of problem.

Should cost about $2.00 per square foot.

Other ceilings- they don't usually fall unless there are many interconnecting cracks and it's bulging from coming loose from the backing. Push against the old ceilings with a broom. If they flex, they are starting to come loose. If not, they are probably OK.

Tenants freak out. Don't go by what tenant says, check it yourself.

pacman,

Plaster with laths (usually chunks not the whole ceiling) or 50's could be drywall. I've had whole ceilings fall due to temperture differences from room to attic, a littele condensation, weakened drywall, heavy insulation...it's all connect and once a section pulls loose it pulls the rest down.

Our easy solution: get 3" diameter flat washers made for rubber roofing and secure the ceilings in question to the joists. Spray them with Zinsser to avoid rust. Mud over them and disguise with a heavy texture on the ceiling.

BRAD

Matt[IN], thanks for your inputs.

Landlord ofthe Flies [TX], the heat coil is a one big loop running in the ceiling throughout the apartment. I'm open to the idea of installing a radiator in the room. So I don't have to worry about new coil in the ceiling again if it's technically possible. Actually I plan to sell this building this year. So I would go with whatever is quicker.

Richard[MI], thanks for the step by step guidance. The ceilings in other rooms have cracks. The tenants afraid to live there. So she moved to the hotel. I wouldn't mind losing this tenant because she has been a PITA for a long time. However I plan to sell this building this year. Keeping her for a little longer might be less headache. It's too many steps and too much time to move Section8 tenant out.

BRAD 20,000 [IN], thank you for the tip for lower cost repair. Unfortunately the entire ceiling came down (plaster and laths) exposing joists and floor of the unit above. :-(

As a contractor, before I'd call in the insurance company I would have first investigated the cause of the ceiling collapse. Maybe the tenants were walking in the attic and not stepping on the joists, instead the plaster which is not designed to hold any kind of additional weight. You can see if there were shoe prints in the dust on the top side of the ceiling.

I don't see how your insurance company won't pay for the actual LR repairs. As for replacing other rooms not so much. You will receive lost rent from your insurance company but the intent of lost rent is to offset the prorated rent for the tenant.

You do need to make it mandatory for tenants to carry renters insurance especially in older properties since they are more prone to a major repair.

Richard (MI)

Why are you/your property manager paying for her hotel? That is what her renters insurance is for. If she can’t pay herself, she needs to move in with family or friends.

I don't see this as something you should expect insurance to repair. It is something that happened over time, and is really a repair issue. It wasn't an act of God, like hail would do to the roof.

Renter's insurance would pay for your tenant to stay in an alternate location until you repair, then subrogate to get you to repay them. Your own insurance MIGHT cover you for loss of rents, but hard to say.

I went to see the ceiling condition today. The entire ceiling (13'x14') came down. Lots of nail and plaster on the floor. She has no renter insurance. Section8 people don't have money to pay full rent, let alone paying for renter insurance. What's the worst that could happen if I refuse to pay for the hotel and damage to her belonging?

This isn't something I would even consider submitting to my insurance. This is something that happens, I would need to fix. In the case of a PITA tenant that is afraid to live there... time to move, the unit is not habitable and the lease is broken. Her property is not your responsibility. That is what they need to have renter's insurance for. You can't collect their rent if they can't live there, but you don't have to pay for a hotel.

Depends on your state laws and your judge. Here we would be required to prorate her rent and reimburse her for damages to her personal belongs. Basic renters insurance costs about $6/mo.

LindaJ[NY], excellent answers, concise and cover everything. Thanks :-)

NC INVESTOR [NC], nice to know the it will be in the insurance record. Another good reason to sell.

Why are you all advising to sheetrock the ceiling? Sheetrock, first coat of spackle, sand, 2nd coat of spackle, sand again (maybe 3rd coat), prime, paint finish coat.

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in california with the common leases we use you are responsible only for the prorated nightly rent. look at the lease and see if it differs from that. the local landlord association will have the answer you seek based on LOCAL law.

if the heat was i the ceiling you will have some electrical to deal with and also the issue of a new ge=heat source. a cadet wall heater is the way i solved this exact same problem in the past. i had a ceiling come down due to a rain ion and there is only one guy in calif repairing and replacing the ceiling radiant heat

don[PA] most of us have never done a drop ceiling and we are creatures of habit.

Robert[CA}...excellent point. a ceiling does not simply drop for no reason.

as always refer to the lease for the answer...if the home is destroyed or rendered unusable for reasons beyond your cause typically the lease terminates or a per diem BASED ON THE RENT is applied. your lease contract is not to provide them housing, it is to provide them THAT SPECIFIC HOUSE. if it burned down they cannot look to you for a $149 a night until they find new digs.

Mike (CA), you said, "everyone, incl. section 8 tenants, have the $15 a month for insurance. if they don't they cannot afford your rental."