4 potbellied pigs as ESA
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4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by David [MI]) Mar 22, 2018 10:27 AM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by GKARL [PA]) Mar 22, 2018 10:54 AM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by John... [MI]) Mar 22, 2018 11:09 AM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by cjo'h [CT]) Mar 22, 2018 11:11 AM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by John... [MI]) Mar 22, 2018 11:14 AM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by John... [MI]) Mar 22, 2018 11:15 AM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by S i d [MO]) Mar 22, 2018 11:18 AM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by plenty [MO]) Mar 22, 2018 12:19 PM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by RB [MI]) Mar 22, 2018 12:27 PM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by John... [MI]) Mar 22, 2018 12:28 PM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by John... [MI]) Mar 22, 2018 12:29 PM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by cjo'h [CT]) Mar 22, 2018 12:42 PM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Mar 22, 2018 1:11 PM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by Vee [OH]) Mar 22, 2018 1:31 PM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by John... [MI]) Mar 22, 2018 2:03 PM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by Pmh [TX]) Mar 22, 2018 3:10 PM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by cjo'h [CT]) Mar 22, 2018 4:12 PM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by LiveTheDream [AZ]) Mar 22, 2018 7:35 PM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by Tom [FL]) Mar 22, 2018 8:12 PM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Mar 22, 2018 10:36 PM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Mar 22, 2018 11:52 PM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by Wilma [PA]) Mar 23, 2018 10:33 AM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by cjo'h [CT]) Mar 23, 2018 12:22 PM
       4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by John... [MI]) Mar 24, 2018 7:48 AM


4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by David [MI]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2018 10:27 AM
Message:

A judge has ordered a southeast Michigan family to remove three out of four potbellied pigs from their rental home.

Stephanie Rowland went to court earlier this year to fight a citation that called for the pigs' removal after a neighbor filed a complaint in August. Rowland argues the pigs provide emotional support and medical assistance, and can be kept at the home under the Fair Housing Act.

The Ann Arbor News reports Judge Kirk W. Tabbey ruled Wednesday that Rowland must remove three of the pigs because the law only covers one animal. Tabbey ordered the city to investigate and find reasonable accommodation for the fourth pig.

The family plans to find a short-term home for the pigs while looking for a larger home they can all live in.

--12.47.xx.xxx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2018 10:54 AM
Message:

Sounds like there's an under count on the number of pigs; they didn't include the two legged ones. --64.121.xxx.xxx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2018 11:09 AM
Message:

Interesting. Based on previous situations and direct guidance on the FHAA, the judge is incorrect. The law specifically does NOT "only cover one animal." They have actually explicitly stated that that is not the case.

I think maybe there is more to this and that is the simplified media version. My GUESS is that it is much more likely that the Judge means that the person's "healthcare professional" only stated that one animal was needed.

But I am curious of the details. :)

- John...

--24.180.xxx.xxx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by cjo'h [CT]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2018 11:11 AM
Message:

Well, with that many pigs they should never complain about having something to eat,can always butcher a pig.Should last a couple of months,in salt.Not as long as a Yorkshire one would,They're about 150 to 175 #,don't know how much a Potbellied would weigh.But should still be good eating.......charlie..........never had one barbecued.................................. --174.199.xx.xxx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2018 11:14 AM
Message:

Oh! My mistake! First, the judge really does refer to the law itself -- not the doctor's orders.

But, more importantly, this was again a case of mixing the ADA and the FHAA (and usually I'm good at NOT doing that).

The ADA actually allows more than one support animal -- and that has been confirmed by further guidance. However, that further guidance actually specifically stated that that might NOT apply to fair housing concerns if having multiple animals might be an issue.

So, good to see some precedence here to confirm that!

- John...

P.S. It is also interesting that, in this case, ONE of the pigs may actually be trained and would qualify as a Service Animal. The other 3 were only ESAs.

--24.180.xxx.xxx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2018 11:15 AM
Message:

She also argued that "The pigs do therapy work and educational programs and stuff like that."

Which, of course, we know doesn't matter since Therapy Animals have no standing in the FHAA or ADA!

I'm loving this case! :)

- John...

--24.180.xxx.xxx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2018 11:18 AM
Message:

Glad to hear there are more efforts every day to curb the abuses of ESAs. Now I'm hungry... Anyone else know where I can get some bacon? --173.17.xx.xx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2018 12:19 PM
Message:

They are live stock! --99.203.xx.xxx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by RB [MI]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2018 12:27 PM
Message:

How many times can you write Actually in a Thread

or conversation and still sound credible ? --47.35.xx.xx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2018 12:28 PM
Message:

Pigs are likely smarter than dogs. That fact that we eat them anyway is just a side issue.

In other words, I have no problem with the pig being an ESA (or even a Service Animal -- although the ADA only considers dogs to be those).

The real issue is just the NUMBER of animals. This case would actually be BETTER for us all if it involved 4 dogs instead of 4 pigs. But, I'll take it...

- John...

--24.180.xxx.xxx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2018 12:29 PM
Message:

Sorry, it is just one of my tics, I guess.

Does it make me less credible somehow? *shrug*

--24.180.xxx.xxx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by cjo'h [CT]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2018 12:42 PM
Message:

Dogs in Korea. Pigs here. Better eating.Sid, you may be able to get a good deal,Do you have her number, Suppose it could be found. .....charlie................................................. --174.199.xx.xxx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2018 1:11 PM
Message:

Gack! Idiot law that makes a landlord allow 4 pigs inside his house. At least one judge has a smidgen of common sense, but I wouldn't be surprised if some handicapped rights group doesn't file to overthrow the ruling.

I actually (blllipht, RB) like pigs, but they aren't suitable to live inside a house. --174.216.xx.xx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2018 1:31 PM
Message:

I think I get it, the guy next door squeeled on the pigs for making noise, and the judge squeeeled on the doctor, time will tell how the cleanups will short the rent, the tenant is responsible for clean-up of any animal even from a guest or her/his animal. --76.188.xxx.xx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2018 2:03 PM
Message:

Vee: That's the thing -- I thought the same, but the details show that the judge ISN'T pushing back against the doctor. The judge is instead flat out saying that the FHAA doesn't allow multiple animals. Which is a GREAT interpretation for us!

It's very good news that the judge isn't saying the doctor was wrong. Instead, that the law doesn't allow it regardless of what a doctor might say.

We need more precedent like this.

- John...

--24.180.xxx.xxx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by Pmh [TX]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2018 3:10 PM
Message:

we have had (real) pot belly pigs. all pigs are very intelligent. a lot smarter & cleaner than dogs & cats & very connected to their owners. I can accept easily as esa. not a donkey or a peacock --104.218.xxx.xx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by cjo'h [CT]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2018 4:12 PM
Message:

Pmh,don't know if they're more intelligent than other animals but maybe as intelligent.We had three Samoyed's.they knew what we said,but I could never figure out what they were talking about.maybe I'm not as sharp as some people .............................charlie...............................................they were also able to determine the time....................................... --174.199.xx.xxx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by LiveTheDream [AZ]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2018 7:35 PM
Message:

Mmmm -emotional support bacon! ;) --47.216.xx.xxx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by Tom [FL]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2018 8:12 PM
Message:

That's wonderful 4 pigs in a house and they are NOT going to stay small.

And when they are not a cute cuddly little piglet. Grow bigger then the owners will not know how to handle them in the house. PLUS if they grow tusks as well.

Give me a break potbellied pigs as ESA!!

PMH OF TX, Just wait for it soon you will see donkeys and peacocks as ESA. Peacocks can make some harsh noise at times.

Pig roast block party anyone in a town in MI for Easter.

The only emotional support for pigs is a plate on the table with barbie pork with a lot of barbie sauce, bake beans, grits, texas toast. That took care of my hunger pains, yummy!!!

--99.56.xx.xx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2018 10:36 PM
Message:

Need that case number to use as a precedent for our cases.

BRAD --68.51.xx.xxx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Mar 22, 2018 11:52 PM
Message:

I'd love to hear what the LL says - I'm guessing he did not know they had 4. It's an upstairs apt.

3 adults, a baby, and 3 part time kids, plus 4 pigs. The largest weighs 160 pounds.

Interesting that this is the CITY citing them, not a peep from the LL.

BRAD

--68.51.xx.xxx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by Wilma [PA]) Posted on: Mar 23, 2018 10:33 AM
Message:

@LiveTheDream [AZ] - You said it before I did! I think that bacon definitely helps my emotions! --71.175.xxx.xxx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by cjo'h [CT]) Posted on: Mar 23, 2018 12:22 PM
Message:

Tom in the Sunshine State,that sounds good,Coming from Ireland,I'd go easy on the grits though..............charlie................................................. --174.199.xx.xxx




4 potbellied pigs as ESA (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Mar 24, 2018 7:48 AM
Message:

It is interesting, as Brad mentioned, that the landlord hasn't been mentioned really. I mean, this is a case where the city issued a CITATION. In most areas, the problem is that citations like that are usually issued to the property owner -- not the renter.

I guess I'm just surprised that the city directly issues a citation to the tenant.

Again, good news for us -- but again, surprising.

- John...

--216.176.x.xx





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