Hi. This may be a bit confusing. Thank you in advance if you stick with me. LOL

Our friend owns a duplex. She live 2 hours away, so when either unit needs paint, repairs, showing, etc I do it for her.

Eighteen months ago, she rented one side to a couple. Prior to their moving in, I went in and spackled every nail hole, washed every surface, painted the entire duplex (walls and ceiling), had the carpets professionally cleaned.

When they moved in, they had two cats so 'friend' said that each cat needed a $250 security deposit on top of one months rent, a total of $1,250. They paid the one months rent/security, but asked if they could pay the $500 cat security fee in monthly payments. 'Friend' said sure (dumb dumb dumb) They paid $200 and then stopped...friend let it ride.

The lease states that they can make no changes to the unit without permission and that they need to give two months notice for a move. They notified her February 17th that they were moving out March 1st. They said "Use our retainer for any rent you need into March". She told them that it doesn't work that way, but you can't FORCE people to give you money. They didn't give adequate notice so friend told them that they needed to pay rent for March AND April.

They've been out of the unit since March 1st. I took some people in this past Saturday to show it and OMG. There are HUGE anchors/screws all over the walls, drywall nails instead of small picture nails, they ripped the towel bars out of the bathroom and put some Dog awful pipe and lumber 'shelves' in and they stenciled paint in one of the bedrooms. They never asked if they could stencil or take the towel bars down. The wall damage is sever enough that it's going to take work to pull the huge nails, scrape down the anchors, spackle and totally repaint.

When I contacted them and we made arrangements to meet at the duplex tonight to do a walk through and for them to hand over the keys, I talked about the damage to the walls. They basically said tough. That friend should use the security deposit for rent AND for the damage. I said "So you want J to be out the rent because you didn't give adequate notice AND pay for the property damage that you caused". They don't care.

Any suggestions on how to handle this ? Thank you. :/

Seems pretty straightforward to me. Total up everything that they owe -- including rent and repair of any damages beyond normal wear and tear. Subtract any deposit that you have from the amount and then send them the final accounting per state law show what they still owe. Then, when they don't pay it, sue (if required) and then attempt to collect through the normal means (garnishment, collections, and so on).

- John...

Here’s what I would do.

Do the repairs/painting.

Bill your friend.

Friend pays you.

Friend sues tenant in small claims and gets judgment.

Friend garnishes wages/bank accounts of departing tenants.

I assume you're acting as the property manager for that property. Are you required by state law to have a real estate license to be a property manager since you don't own the property?

Chandla,

First, welcome to Mr. LL. I don't recall seeing you post here before.

Second, while it was nice for you to help your friend out, it is clear to me that your friend needs to make a decision now, today, about being a land lord or being a door mat. The tenants sound like the classic "tenant from H3LL" story, but the reality of the story here is your friend made the following major mistakes:

1) Did not screen properly. Bad tenants don't become bad overnight. She didn't get the real story from their past land lords.

2) Allowed them to have control by not paying the full amount due up front. Unpaid deposits usually never get paid.

3) Never inspected the unit during the tenancy. This is sheer laziness/cheapness. If she couldn't do it, she needed to pay you $50 to go do it, at least twice a year you need to be INSIDE.

4) She expects tenants to "care" about paying rent/doing what they're supposed to. Nope, bad tenant don't care. It is delusional thinking to believe otherwise. Most good tenants don't really "Care" about land lords; they simply value their reputation enough to stick to the lease and pay as agreed without doing damages. Intelligent self-interest is what explains it, not so much "caring".

There are about a half dozen minor mistakes, but these four are enough for now.

So it's time to decide: is your friend going to learn her lesson? It will be expensive, for sure. If she is not willing to learn and change her abysmal land lording practices, then she should sell now, because odds are her next tenants will be as bad or worse."

"But S i d[MO]...after all they did how could it be worse?"

Answer: Concrete poured down the toilet. ;-)

Don't beat your friend up quite like I did. I'm online so tone and body language isn't available here. I just have to be blunt to be sure you understand what to tell your friend. You know her and can "soften the blow" a bit. But be clear. To be unclear is to be unkind.

Maybe something along the lines of "Gee, this was a really bad experience. Maybe think about getting some training and/or changing up your methods, or perhaps it's time to sell and invest in the stock market?"

other than it's your FRIEND why do you care? get real she has no right to drag you into her sloppy renting skills (no shills). She not you needs to get it together and follow the law.

You took people to a unit you hadn't even looked inside of? How did you get in? Tenant is meeting you with keys-- so you entered without proper notice? Since you don't have surrender from tenant or was given possession from court?

Tonight hand them a form to sign -- "we are voluntarily surrendering the property". A walk through 4 what purpose other than a confrontation.

Get your keys change the locks make ur list of damages and rent due-- to end of contract. and start your civil process to collect. Get the property back on the market.

First, the unpleasant news:

1. Tenants don't NEED to give two months notice before leaving, no matter what the lease says: The law means that, whatever notice there may be, landlord may recover lost rent for up to the specified interval. Thus, tenant is not restricted in what he must do, rather he is encumbered in what damages he may have to pay. So preparing to collect damages must be an important part of choosing a tenant.

2. landlady agreed to accept cats. So, tenant is not restricted in what he/she must do, only in how much damages he/she may have to pay. So preparing to collect damages must be an important part of choosing a tenant.

3. She (or you) were negligent in waiting until now to view the unit.

4. Anchors and screws are part of normal wear & tear. They are simple to repair, a little spackle wiped on with a finger is part of what a landlord is expected to do between tenants. Remember that wear & tear is part of what landlord is giving in return for receiving rent.

5. There is no law saying that tenants MUST NOT DO THIS. Only law saying what landlord can (attempt to) recover in money.

6. huge nails, scrape down the anchors, spackle are not really major work, and in most cases, landlord is expected to do that as part of a turnover in exchange for collecting rent. If you came from the (former) British Empire, then you know that the Common Law started to provide for that back in the 13th century.

So, how to handle this?

Preparing to collect damages must be an important part of choosing a tenant. Your friend should pay close attention to that the next time she rents.

try and locate several attys. that do eviction law and GIVE YOUR FRIEND the list. then step away.

you have no standing to handle this any further.

Thank you for your great advice.

No doubt, friend has a huge heart and no head for business.

Myob...I do this because she' s caring for her Dad whose dying and Can't get back here to do it. She' s our friend. Entry into the duplex was with the tenants permission, given 48 hours on advance. The owner wasn't concerned about showing the unit on an unseen state because the potential renters were friends from where she' s living now and she'd warned them that they current tenants weren't out and the place wasn't clean.

I understand T hat some mails are "normal wear and tear". Not an issue. But I counted the huge anchors, screws and drywall nails on the small living room. 32. That's excessive AND damaging.

Chandla honestly-- it's like pulling teeth to get people to give the whole story. Makes difference. Not much but makes it reasonable.

Friend or not never show unless you know the condition and never ever show a damaged unit no matter who's looking.

Hi MYOB: though it had been a desire of mine to go this path for many years, we were never able to do so without our "foundation" being secure.

Even when the opportunity was at hand there was much calculating, soul-searching & research done to prepare.

Having had many years in customer service/dealing with the public experience under my belt I was prepared for a lot.

Luckily we found this site which helped round-out our education. We made big mistakes on our first Tenant and it put a great strain on our relationship.

We powered thru and have had decent success, in large part due to those in attendance here

"Huge" anchors. How big is a "huge" anchor? Plastic wall anchors, > 1-1/2 inch? Pull it out from the wall with a pliers and spackle. Drywall nails (screws)? Unscrew them and spackle. excessive? If 1 is wear & tear, is 32 damage or are they both wear & tear?

Frank your who I'm talkin about-- a foundation. The keys tot he kindome are here. People go willie nillie with no consept-- they faulter and die by the way side. Do folks wake up one day and say- Gee honey lets buy a 80K investment property? I SWEAR they do! Have many who belonged to RAND many years ago wh after 10 or 12 years never purchased. Smart as can be just never did it. So both ends of the spectrum are represented.

Lesson learned.......

you can evict for unpaid rent, it is a great deal harder to evict for unpaid deposits.

Thanks again, everyone. I met the exiting tenants last night at the duplex. We did a walk through and in the end, they are counter sinking and patching/painting the screw anchors as (I sat and read through their lease) the lease very specifically disallows them. The LL will handle the normal wear and tear of basic nail holes and carpet cleaning. The tenants will remove the weird shelves they put in the bathroom as they admit that they never asked the LL for permission to screw them into the wall. They will also patch the screw holes left from those shelves and will rehang both towel bars. As far as money, the LL retains the pet deposit and the security in it's entirety.

ONE massive problem-- tenant has moved and LL still has no keys. Good luck with that! No March rent and no April either. Big deal "a walk thru" with people who skipped out.

As stated at the beginning-- they have moved out. Leave the keys and yor forwading address and that you are voluntaroly surrendering the proeprty. No letter or statement no problem as long as keys are left. Document keys with pic.

You might as well get the court paperwork going its going to now be a long drawn out process.

MYOB...no. No problem. I have the keys. And no. No "long drawn out process" and no rent/money problems. The walls were fixed this morning and the new tenants move in Wednesday and wanted it badly enough that they signed the lease and paid for the entire month of March.

Chandia,

The So Many Issues is just the beginning of thus debacle.

We get what we allow so you and your friend allowed this.

WI has some odd laws so I HIGHLY suggest your friend hite an atty NOW.

Housebeaters tell you what you want to hear. I will be AMAZED if they come back and fix. ANYTHING!

Dirty carpet is not normal wear and tear anybdigferntky thsn a dirty kitchen floor or toilet.

I DO NOT want them spackling holes. Theybeill CREATE more work with lousy lumps.

More to come...

More tough love help...

You are in over your head and this housebeater proves it. Get help thru training or hire an agent.

I’m sorry your friend is having serious problems but that has nothing to do with the rental.

Screen thoroghly. Pull credit report.

My 2 Minute In Home Visit prior to final approval would have shown you they are housebeaters and saved your friend THOUSAND$$$.

Check WI law, but we post all monies rec’d to DEPOSITS until paid then rent. They snookered you on that deposit.

But 18 months without compliance??

If the cats did not make damage she would have to return any animal deposits. Been there.

My lease is clear: everything I want or don’t want is written in the lease in black and white. No discussions needed.

Please give us follow up posts so we can all learn. Best of luck!

BRAD

Chandla of WI will be back here in a year or so when the new tenant does damage or does not pay rent, or other issues. I bet the landlord did not screen the new tenants. Oh well a good heart and no business sense is not a great method of screening and dealing with tenants.