I am going to assume that most LL's here have, at one time or another, chosen a tenant based on nothing more than just a good 'gut feeling' concerning an applicant. At the very minimum, you have received a completed application and you have had a positive in-depth face to face conversation with this applicant. Your 'gut feeling' is very positive and it just seems this applicant will make a good tenant.

Now, my question is in 2 parts: If you choose a tenant(s) based solely on a positive gut feeling (no credit /background checks here),...what are your chances that you will get (A) a good tenant, (B) a mediocre tenant or (C),...a real deadbeat ?

i've never chosen on nothing more than gut feeling.

A very similar thread was posted on the "Pockets" website a few days ago. My response boiled down to your gut is telling you something legit is wrong: our job is to find out what it is.

I have never had a problem with a tenant unless I failed to listen to my gut and dig in to find what the actual problem is. I'm not saying we never fail and someone slips by us in spite of our best efforts--pathological liars are good at hiding their past/present, and when we're inexperienced we don't always know how to hear what our gut is trying to tell us.

I've let prospects who were "on the line" woo my gut feeling. It's usually a good experience.

I've had others who were alright on paper, but I just couldn't put my finger on them. Those were the worst.

But if the checks come back good and the gut feeling is good then it's usually a great tenant.

Sid,

Roy, I can't answer your question directly because I cannot think of why any sane person would not do the basic due diligence items like credit check and background check. I know some old-skool land lords who do everything with spit and handshake, but they're also the ones who remove doors for self-help evictions.

Not my cup of tea. They are in the same list of people who used to frequent that adultery/hook-up and cheat on your spouse website Ashley Matteson. My brain simply doesn't work that way.

So I answer as best I can. I am a fairly good judge of someone's character, but it's based on facts, not some quasi-spiritual "gut feeling." As you know, I rent to "Class C" market, most all of whom have some issues. Evan with all the information I have, there's a lot to wade thru to decide which issues are deal killers vs. which are acceptable. My eviction rate is pretty low, so my conclusion is I'm doing a fairly good job.

I don't think you're going to get many good answers to your question here because most folks here do credit and background checks. I think that's your answer: we may all trust, but we also verify.

I hope that helps.

Btw, I'm also still happily married to my college sweet heart since 1999. Considering the average marriage that ends in divorce in the USA is less than 7 years, I consider my almost 19-year relationship with her a testimony to good judgment of character. This relationship impacts me 100x more than any land lord/tenant deal, IMHO.

I have never gone by "gut feeling" alone even though I am psychic. I get the credit check, listen to the tenant and see how they behave and try to pick up information from them. Unfortunately, people are able to block me from reading them until the lease is signed.You can block a psychic from reading you. Then I get a message of what the major problem will be with that person but it's too late. Usually it's not bad, just annoying.

When I rented to the cat pee lady who cost me thousands, I had a broken ankle that needed surgery and was in a cast. I blocked all of my bad feelings just to get someone in there. Bad idea.

With the current young couple in the Cute Cape Cod, they had very little credit but no bad credit. They were presentable, spoke well and I was getting the feeling that they would be quality tenants and I took them and that has proved to be correct after a few little issues with his motorcycle in the garage instead of a car. I didn't pick up on the cycle. I thought he was talking about the pedal kind. But he's cooperative about keeping it elsewhere and letting his fiancee put her car in the garage.

Another applicant I rejected was making me want to run out of the room. Turns out he was up on charges of DUI and was going to lose his license. Another applicant had a small dog but I kept asking about another pet and finally someone told me she had a parrot. And also i found out the son was smuggling cigarettes but that was logical thinking when he told me he drove to Delaware to get them for his mom. I knew he wasn't just driving all that far for a few cartons. Rejected them on the grounds that she was going to download a storage shed into my basement.

Gut feelings are hard to interpret sometimes. I have read that if you go into a room and see someone who you just have to talk to or are drawn to in a dating sense, run the other way. That is someone who personifies chaos in your life or another one, that needs resolution. Run the other way.

This is easily one of the too five things I love about rentals. I am a terrible judge of character, especially with only the 5to10mins I meet them at the showing.

Okay Sid,...I will leave you alone on this topic.

Now, to answer my own question here,...my chances of getting a good tenant is a lot better now than it use to be when I first started. This comes from years of experience in interviewing hundreds of applicants in the last 10 years. If you never answer your own phone or enjoy talking to applicants in person,..you may never gain this type of 'streetwise education' about people in general.

I do background checks on some applicants and others I don't.

Roy,

MY gut feeling? Hunger! Or time for a Tums!

Back when I started in 1977 my criteria was a completed application, 1/3 of income for rent, and do they have the money? If so here are the keys.

People did have full deposit in full first months rent. And it worked well at that time.

But we live in a different time. People have much less money and have much more baggage such as credit card debt, child support payments, student loans, crazy car payments, etc.

Even crime is up. Our local jail used to house 30 but has grown to 300. More drugs and online gambling gobbling up household income, the list goes on.

Our basic first level screening only approves 1.5 out of 10 applications. If I used gut feeling we would have an 85% chance of bringing in a bad resident.

The only time we consider the good is when the paper looks good but we sense something is wrong. Never ever use gut for a positive response.

BRAD

Roy, buddy....no harm, no foul. I apologize for (apparently) calling you insane. No hurt feeling, I hope. We can still enjoy some Coors at the Convention? I'll have your case cold and ready for transport back to AL.

While I do not say it's wrong, there is some risk, however, to your strategy. If you "gut deny" someone of a certain protected class, it would be easier for them to file a law suit against you and possibly win, as you'd have few to no objective criteria for why you denied them. Odds of a lawsuit? Probably fairly slim. You and I are small potatoes, and like my IRS auditor friend noted, Govt agency resources are strapped these days. My guess is in most markets they are going after the "big boys" (500+ units) where they can easily prove a systematic discrimination over many years and potentially collect multi-million $ settlements. You and I just aren't rich enough to make the typical fair housing inspector's radar blip.

That said, never know when a "Barney Fife" looking to make a name for him/her self and get a promotion will show up and try to make our lives miserable. I just don't want to ever hear about you getting in trouble for this. Do what you gotta do, my friend. I'm with ya in spirit if not in practice. :-)

.

I'll play along.

"If you choose a tenant(s) based solely on a positive gut feeling (no credit /background checks here),...what are your chances that you will get (A) a good tenant, (B) a mediocre tenant or (C),...a real deadbeat ?"

A.) 10% B.)30% C.) 60%

"Based on gut feeling alone, are your chances of getting a good tenant better with Class B vs. Class C applicants? "

NO

I think I'd say this...

Screen everyone normally. If something isn't good on your screening, but you have a "gut feeling" to take them anyhow -- then ignore your gut and run this like a business and deny them based on your screening. Your gut could just be that you need a snack. :)

If, on the other hand, things look good from the screening, but after talking with them more, your "gut feeling" tells you that something isn't right -- then don't take them. Trust your gut. :)

In other words -- trust only your "bad gut feelings." Don't over-ride your normal screening and accept someone based on your gut. Deny-on-gut only.

It's much safer that way.

- John...

And I agree with what Sisco said on the numbers and attitude! :)

- John...

when i was younger i may have used Gut feeling one time. That lasted for the first deadbeat tenant. 1986.

extensive credit check and extra extra court record check along with not allowing my FEELS to enter into any part of the decision. I never ever listen to the excuses applicants give for this and that.

Conman are really clever about tricking your gut into having good feelings. That's their job. They couldn't do their job if they couldn't trick people.

If my gut says no, I screen until I find the reason why.

If my gut says yes, I screen to verify.

Sid of MO I think in part we have to be a little insane as landlords to be in the landlording/ownership business. Real Estate investing has a degree of risk. Tenants have ZERO degree of risk. That's WHY we are in the rental business. Tenants do not want the responsibility of ownership due to hardships in a persons life they don't want to own. Lost job! Health issues! Low self e.s.t.e.e.m! Financial issues! Divorce! Foreclosure! Addiction! And the list goes on...

We ALL know landlords who the first person that walks in the door gets the unit. They GOT it rented. The prospect had cash in hand, first months rent, security deposit and last months rent. Lease is signed at this point. The ink is not dry yet and the tenant is moved in... How's that going to work out for the LL? Most likely 95% failure rate. The only GUT FEELING this landlord had was seeing green qualified the person and sealed the deal. LL goes back to the easy chair and collected the monthly rents. Maintenance on the unit is questionable and condition of unit is questionable.

I.n.t.i.m.i.d.a.t.i.o.n and FEAR was an issue for me when I first got into the rental business and sometimes tenants can be very I.n.t.i.m.i.d.a.t.i.n.g. FEAR of vacancy and no money for several months. And trying to be a nice person giving the tenant the benefit of the doubt. After a few times of the school of hard knocks I changed and nothing a tenant said mattered, no excuses from a tenant was a good excuse. Usually my gut told me not to rent to someone I was correct. There were a few times that I would have been wrong and got burned on my gut feeling. The application, application fee, credit check, criminal check are tools used to protect landlords from lawsuits of why a landlord did not rent to the prospective tenant. PLUS protects landlords from a problem/deadbeat tenants.

The gut feeling method of selecting a tenant can get landlords into some major legal hot water. My gut feeling is great but not foul proof. I really on application, application fee, credit report, criminal report, former landlords, leinable utilities, present home inspections helps to create a financial picture of IF the person is going to pay monthly and maintain the unit in as is or better condition for the term of the lease. When they go bad breaching the lease EVICTION is the most powerful process to move forward and remove a bad tenant.

Be a proactive landlord NOT a re-active landlord. Zero Tolerance!!!

"when an applicant gives their current address-- we do a property records check to see who owns the property and call them"

Tom (FL) said, "We ALL know landlords who the first person that walks in the door gets the unit. They GOT it rented. The prospect had cash in hand, first months rent, security deposit and last months rent. Lease is signed at this point. The ink is not dry yet and the tenant is moved in... How's that going to work out for the LL? Most likely 95% failure rate.

95% failure rate? Seems a little high to me Tom. How did you come to this conclusion on failure rate? Your own personal experiences or are you just making an assumption?

myob, before I even look at the application, I go thru the credit report. I deny a lot of applicants based on that alone , and never have to look at their application.

I don't really keep track of bad addresses. If there is a problem, most of the time they are legit but the tenant has "lost" the mom n pop LL's contact info.

One time, the wife had excellent credit, the husband had no credit but his credit report showed two addresses that weren't on the application. A property record search didn't yield me any good contact info so I asked the wife. She got very confrontational and said she didn't know anything about those addresses and that I couldn't use them in my screening.

Roy of AL, Consider all the prospective tenants over the last year or two years and all landlords can think about this factor. The prospects that completed the YOUR rental application, paid a fee and you ran the credit check. The ones YOU denied now they walk into the landlord that does no screening. The only screening is cash in hand and maybe gut feeling that the cash in hand works for them. The failure rate would be extremely high due to the fact of credit worthiness. And I know of a landlord who did it and every single time this landlord put a tenant in they were chasing rents and damages occurred, etc. It may be higher than 95%.

Hey IF a landlord wants to go on gut feeling and no screening, ESPECIALLY NO credit checks then they are going to be chasing rents and damages will occur. It's a poor management style, but I guess the landlord that I knew and others who go on gut feeling without supporting paperwork and other screening factors. GO FOR IT!!! They will get burned.

The tools that we as landlords have available are EXTREMELY important to screen out problem tenants: Phone pre screening, app fee, application, credit check, leinable utility checks, previous & former landlord checks, present living conditions.

My 'gut feelings' have changed over the years. In the beginning...I had great enthusiasm but was often rules by fear and intimidation. I had good feelings about almost everyone, wanted everyone to have a wonderful place to live. Those people were the same ones who cheated me, threatened me, and taught me a lot. After that phase I went into the phase of not trusting anyone and my gut was always saying NO even when the concrete info was good. Slowly I found my balance, my sweet space. Now I meet everyone first, then let the concrete info either support or deny.

Roy,

I often try and guess whether I will rent to someone or not based on gut feel after the showing. I always to the checks to "validate" my gut feel. I'm wrong about a third of the time finding something on the checks that I didn't pick up on during the face to face discussion.

Roy,

We are MILES away from gut and still get fooled once in a while.

Even with an OK on the paper screening we can still be fooled. That's why I'm firm on the 2 Minute In Home Visit.

I think many of you misunderstood my original question. I was not suggesting that LL's should drop their screening methods and rely on solely on 'gut feelings' about an applicants.

However, if you have been in the trenches as long as I have, the reality is that many Mom & Pop LL's use only their gut feelings about an applicant prior to renting to them. Some M&P LL's that I know don't end use a written application!

Shoot, even your gut says YES and all things check out golden, you can still get a tenant like my Puppy People, who were so happy in their new home that they ran out and got a puppy! He was definitely operating on the "ask forgiveness, not permission" theory of life, and found out to his shock that it doesn't work that way sometimes.

Then there's the guy I did NOT run a criminal check on, because he openly admitted to drug charges in his past. But he was now in his 40's, settled down, had lived at his last address for years, landlord reference checked out, etc. Why spend the money? I did run it on HER and got nothing. Both really nice people!

Turns out Landlord was his mother, he had been in prison for years (stable address LOL!) and was an accomplished con-man. As was his wife, because when they moved out (evicted) there were service papers left behind for her arrest for giving false information to a police officer, which is why the criminal check turned up nothing. She was using a false name everywhere. Still don't know her real name.

WMH,

I had two different groups come one right after the other a couple years ago at the same house. Both were acting very strange at the showing, asking odd questions, and I had a bad vibe.

% of good to bad using only "gut"?

I will have about 150 calls for a vacancy. After giving some of my requirements on the phone and mentioning the application fee, only 50 will show up to look.

About 30 of those will put in an application.

The people who apply, average 30% of them lie about their landlord. 3-5 of them lie about smoking. Occassionally one lies about his job. I accept dogs, so only get 1-3 false claims of service dog and nobody is trying to sneak in a pet.

I'm lucky to get one family to qualify.

Real numbers from above: (previous posters, not Heaven!)

Oregon approves 1 out of 30. So if Oregon used gut only that would be 97% wrong.

My numbers are 1.5 out of 10 approved so gut would be 85% wrong.

By actual count 50% of our applicants lie about employment so there is 50% without going any further. 35% bounced for other reasons.

Screening is so easy and deadbeats are so plentiful and costly, why in the world would any LL go by gut? But I known they do. I probably get a call every week from a LL who did not screen, went bu gut because “they were sooo nice!”

Haha! Wifey says if gut is OK, doctors should use it to prescribe medication and surgery. “I have a feeling you don’t need any medicine to cure your disease.”

I think many of you misunderstood my original question. I was not suggesting that LL's should drop their screening methods and rely on solely on 'gut feelings' about an applicants.

However, if you have been in the trenches as long as I have, the reality is that many Mom & Pop LL's use only their gut feelings about an applicant prior to renting to them. Some M&P LL's that I know don't end use a written application!

So, my question was trying to find out what the odds of getting a decent tenant were by using only your gut feelings about someone. I put the odds at around 50/50. In theory, the more screening one does, the odds get better at finding a decent tenant.

Roy of AL, Like I said earlier I think failure rate is in the 95% to 100%. I am not so sure that its a gut feeling the M&P has going for them. I believe most of them see the next person in the door the prospect tells them they have a job and the landlord sees cash flashed in front of them so they sign the lease and IT's RENTED. M & P goes back to the easy chair. NO worries no repairs...

And when they start to chase rents and tenant damage the unit. M & P have a screaming match with the tenant and threaten eviction and every threat they can think of so the tenant may give them part of the rent. M & P do't realize they are being played and strung along by the tenant.

I always do extensive checks. HOWEVER when i have a gut feeling i don't want that tenant i am 99% correct. down the road something always comes up.

PROBLEM is they passed the criteria test.

they DID NOT pass my gut test.

With 40 years experience I can say that reading through all of the questions and messages, each I'm sure have their unique situation.

I myself realize that if I don't get the money from them. They will be the proud owner of any costs !!!

For that reason, as well as the fact that having a vacant unit is much cheaper than having a problem, family, or tenant.

I reserve myself and I ask the applicants. Prior to viewing the property questions like,

When are you looking to move? What date?

Who will be living with you?

How long will you stay?

Do you have local credible and verifiable references?

Why are you moving?

How do I know you can afford the rent?

What have you paid for rent in the past?

Asking a few questions like this can help you do more than just use your gut feeling. Remember, just like Mr. landlord used to have in his newsletter. It's your job to stay in control!

I realize some places rents lower and some rent faster, for me, collecting rent is not the important thing, the important thing is finding someone who appreciates and has appreciated the properties that they been in.

Doing a personal drive-by and walk through of their current residence is crucial.

Discussing questions like who they are, where they been, what they've done, what's going right in their life? What has gone wrong in their life?

Each simple question you ask should be open ended, allowing them to ramble on and help you define what type of human factor you are dealing with IE- are they solid sound and sensible?

Or are they simply someone looking for a place to hang their hat and another property to get dirty?

Your gut feeling might be helpful, but I think about my pocketbook and please everyone realize and remember that it's much harder to remove the bad, and it can cost you a lot more. Thus, your gut feeling can be very costly!

Dan

I have over 40 years experience renting my properties

With 40 years experience I can say that reading through all of the questions and messages, each I'm sure have their unique situation.

I myself realize that if I don't get the money from them. They will be the proud owner of any costs !!!

For that reason, as well as the fact that having a vacant unit is much cheaper than having a problem, family, or tenant.

I reserve myself and I ask the applicants. Prior to viewing the property questions like,

When are you looking to move? What date?

Who will be living with you?

How long will you stay?

Do you have local credible and verifiable references?

Why are you moving?

How do I know you can afford the rent?

What have you paid for rent in the past?

Asking a few questions like this can help you do more than just use your gut feeling. Remember, just like Mr. landlord used to have in his newsletter. It's your job to stay in control!

I realize some places rents lower and some rent faster, for me, collecting rent is not the important thing, the important thing is finding someone who appreciates and has appreciated the properties that they been in.

Doing a personal drive-by and walk through of their current residence is crucial.

Discussing questions like who they are, where they been, what they've done, what's going right in their life? What has gone wrong in their life?

Each simple question you ask should be open ended, allowing them to ramble on and help you define what type of human factor you are dealing with IE- are they solid sound and sensible?

Or are they simply someone looking for a place to hang their hat and another property to get dirty?

Your gut feeling might be helpful, but I think about my pocketbook and please everyone realize and remember that it's much harder to remove the bad, and it can cost you a lot more. Thus, your gut feeling can be very costly!

Dan

I have over 40 years experience renting my properties

the gut is certainly a crucial element but the paper trail is the jumping off point. NO ONE gets in without a deep dive check and a credit report and that is a full real one, not the "A,B,C,D" letter grades that some vendors offer. i also FULLY check the stuff on an application. i've had some real clever folks try to game me. fake landlords, fake employment, fake bank balances...a BeeEss rap bubbles to the surface REAL quick with not much effort and there's no "gut" involved in learning they straight out lied. liars get tossed promptly and w/o remorse. if they cannot answer simple questions with a yes or a no it's a red flag. BS'ers BS...it's what they do. let them run their game on someone else.

a prospective tenants ad response and rent app is their AUDITION...if they cannot fill one out COMPLETELY and LEGIBLY and deliver a pmt for the credit check they have demonstrated their diligence and ability to read and understand their part of the deal. their behavior on day one is a telescope to their later acts. set your baselines and hold to them. there's a wealth of experience here...learn from our expensive mistakes.

here's a real response i got from a craigslist ad that asked them for their full name, phone number and the number of folks intended. guess if they even got a response...

"Hyd I was wondering bout ur house for rent my name is jerrika in its 4 in the house". this screams "i'm a nuisance".

David: Sorry, missed your question before. To be honest, I don't even do the "gut" thing for denials. I think the whole "trust your gut" thing is a bit crazy and shouldn't be done at all. This is a business -- run it like one.

But, I said the above mainly to try to stop people from "trusting their gut" and ACCEPTING someone that they otherwise wouldn't through normal checks. Never take that person because of your gut.

So, I was just saying that if you are going to "trust your gut" on stuff, then only do it on denials, at least, so you don't take someone that you wouldn't otherwise approval just because you "had a good feeling about them."

All that being said, if I have someone that seems like they are qualified -- but when I meet them I feel like it is going to be a problem (based on something they say, for example) -- then I still might deny them. And I don't have to give a reason. If I was accused of discrimination in court against a protected class, THEN I would explain why I thought they were a bad choice based on what they said. But, again, that would be super rare. I generally don't do "trust your gut" when considering applicants.

- John...

NEVER RELY ON GUT FEELING. It’s so true, all applicants are liars. March 13 2018 a prospective tenant filled an application, when I asked why are you moving, he said his landlord increased his rent from $1400 per month to $1800 per month which is too steep and that’s why he is moving. I asked if he has any evictions in the past and he said no. I let him fill an application for background check which showed that 2 evictions were filed in the past. Also his current landlord filed eviction on him on January 18 2018, which means the court officer is going to lock his door probably next week. Secondly he asked to move in on the 15 th of March but wants to give me a check to move in. I refused. I also deny him the apartment because he LIED on his application by saying he was never evicted when he has 3 evictions. Also he lied on the increment of his rent. No landlord in NJ can increase a tenant $400.00 per month of any month, that’s illegal and a lie. Further interview proved he has more lies longer than River Nile.

Like the TV show HOUSE (the grumpy doctor with a cane) people only tell you what they want you to know and hide the rest, esp the bad stuff.

LLs are generally nice, accepting people. Many give away clues and signals of what they want to hear, priming the liars.

I used to ask if they could afford this rent. The answer was always YES.

Roy, the Criminal Couple were the worst tenants ever BUT they were only there a short time. First month: cops are called to the house because his ex-wife showed up and started a fight with current wife. Cops, ambulance, etc. Neighbors say he came around and apologized to them all, so okay. Second month: pays partial rent. Catches up in a few days. Third month: pays partial rent, says he will have the rest in two weeks.

By this time I know about his criminal background and decide it's over. I file for eviction. He stays the entire time (had a neighbor keeping an eye on the place) but was gone when the Sheriff came to put him out. I changed the locks and that was that.

According to AdeleI of FL, She mostly get professionals. Adele knows they have been vetted already by their employers so I rarely have inconsistencies with their application information.