Headed to eviction (small claims) tomorrow. Thankfully, it's been a while. Most of my tenants skip....so yeah. :/

I have three copies of each.....The lease agreement (as well as the original). The proof of nonpayment. A copy of the 10 day pay or quit.

Anything else I'm forgetting?

This is a Sec8 tenant and I have spoken w, and given copies of everything, to her case worker.

I am certain she will be at court with her sob story. I just want to make sure that I have everything in order.

Any other NC landlords have a Sec8 eviction story/lesson to share?

WMH. That has been my small claims experience, as well. It's the sec8 part that worries me. I don't want to start over if I have somehow missed "dotting an i." Gov-ment ...what can ya do?....

I talked to her case worker because I know they will often advocate for their clients (ugh), but she assured me that this eviction wouldn't be a problem. We'll see.

Thanks

My experience is the same as WMH's.

Judge: "Did you pay rent?"

Tenant: "No...but here's my 'story'"

10 minutes later...

Judge: "I rule in favor of the LL....next."

I think the judge let's them speak so they get to feel like they "had their say." To keep the peace. In the end, all of us like to be listened to, even if we're dead wrong.

Ken. My reasoning (not necessarily my reason) is/was that it is possible that the tenant hasn't met w their caseworker to update them on their current finances. Although small, it is possible that the case worker could adjust the sec8's rent back to 100% and a payment plan can be arraigned. That being said, once someone gets behind, there is little hope that they will ever catch up.

I've never had a Sec.8 eviction. It's been years since I've had section 8.

I was in court for the first time in a long time the day before Thanksgiving. The judge was very patient with a Sec. 8 tenant and let her talk for an eternity since she was complaining about repairs not being done. Turns out the tenant was well prepared and the LL admitted there had been problems but didn't have proof that they had been corrected. The judge ordered the LL to fix everything and return in 10 days with pix and receipts and refused to give her a judgement.

So I recommend that you take your most current annual or semi annual Sec 8 inspection report just in case your tenant makes some off the wall accusations. I would also take a payment ledger demonstrating slow pay. If you've done any repairs you should take a copy of your receipts to prove they were done.

I don't see a problem with you talking to her case worker. Who knows, she may have a solution. Does your tenant realize that NC revokes their housing voucher for an eviction? I'm not sure they can even move to subsidized housing after an eviction in NC but that may vary by County.

Good thought NC-investor. I will take the inspection report. It very recently passed. Thanks for the idea.

To answer your question, I'm not sure if this particular tenant understands....anything. I suspect drug use, but have no way of knowing, for sure. Another one, soon to be shocked by consequences.

Good thought NC-investor. I will take the inspection report. It very recently passed. Thanks for the idea.

To answer your question, I'm not sure if this particular tenant understands....anything. I suspect drug use, but have no way of knowing, for sure. Another one, soon to be shocked by consequences.

So what is the cost for the eviction (in your experience) and did you get any compensation after the judgement and how long did it take from start to finish?

David, at least where I live, a tenant has to be present in court before a money judgement can be awarded. Only the most naive (or angry) tenants show up. In my 20 years, I have only received money from one judgement. I was so shocked I didn't know what to do w it, and honestly had forgotten about it. lol. Most of my tenants aren't collectible, but I follow through w the evictions in hopes of helping the next LL out and hopefully balancing the universe.

GreatOne,

Our judge just spoke to our group on Saturday. Some take-aways:

-Show me, don't tell me.

-Have the numbers ready on paper

Me? I don't like surprises in court or the case delayed due to some technicality so we work it out in the hall on the form I passed out at the last few Conventions. I get them agree to what they owe and when they'll be out, sign it, hand it to the judge and say "Your Honor, We've reached an agreement." He likes that because it makes his job easier.

Sec8 can be different. Depends on which party did not pay. If Sec8 withheld rent then we cannot evict. Only if the res did not pay her part.

Hope it went well!

WMH. While I have you here. What is your current understanding of the 10 day pay or quit? My current understanding (wish) is that it can be waived within the lease (I'm doubtful of that) and that, if included in the lease, that if agreed, electronic communication (ie. text, emails) can be used in place of a certified letter.

I am currently doing all three. I will send a text & email, stating the rent demand, I will also include an attachment of the demand letter, as well as a mailed letter. My lease also states that I file for evictions on the 15th.

Brad. Interesting ideas. I will think about how I can work some version of that into what i do.

Most of my evictions come from "professional tenants". They understand the system and rarely show up for court. We have no ability to garnish in NC and not paying your rent is never an acceptable answer. For the most part, NC is ll friendly, except for the 10 day pay or quit requirement. That's insane. I think the 3 day is much more reasonable.

I use the NC RE Comm. lease and it automatically includes the notice waiver.

DAVID AND OTHER NC LL'S:

Cost: I'm going to my very first appeal today precipitated by the courts desire to help tenants and LL's. The new program has the court acting as a mediator in money judgements. If they can work out a payment plan between the LL and tenant and IF the tenant fulfills the agreement then the money judgement will be removed from their record. The eviction will remain but the court believes that the money judgement presents a greater challenge for tenants seeking housing.

I'll post an update for other NC LL's. As to money judgements, I've been given a MJ when the tenant has not appeared.

MY last eviction (the one under appeal) took 27 days from filing to possession. It all depends on the courts backlog.

10 Day Pay or Quit is really just for verbal leases. If your lease waives notice (mine does) you can file immediately using the "Breach of Lease" check box on the form, rather than the "Failure to Pay Rent" check box.

Then the breach is "Failed to pay rent when due blah blah blah."

The notice is waived BUT you still cannot file before day 11. The benefit to the notice waiver is that without the waiver you have to wait 10 days FROM THE DATE OF THE NOTICE before you can file. So if you waited until the 4th you cannot file until the 15th.

Before using the waiver I was either lazy or stupid or both but I never sent the notice before the 5th or 6th which obviously cost me money.

WMH:

Eviction update..... (because I like hearing the conclusion in these post)

WMH, NC investor ....funny you should say that!...(and shameful(on me) that this is the first time I have heard it...but the magistrate just explained(mentioned I could've used) the "Breach of Lease" box to me...kinda. Today was the first time it was mentioned...ever! ugh. I need to get back to some sort of LL meeting. My mistake. Am I now to understand that if I check the breach of contract box, I can file for eviction any time after the 5th? (Because of my lease provision?)

I would appreciate any continued thoughts/explanation of the nuances of the Breach of Contract.

Trial update..... First of all, a VERY unusual morning, in that there were only three evictions on file. I was in and out in 37 min. Awesome! The other unusual occurrence was that my tenant did show up. I was very surprised. Of course she had a sob story and lied, but to no avail. I was granted possession and a judgement for money owed. The tenant and I spoke afterwards and of course she promised to pay, blah, blah, blah...yeah...Now to wait my ten days.

The magistrate also mentioned that if I had put the late fees as a separate item on the complaint, that he could've included them in the judgement as well. I typically don't include the late fees (because of some previous advice)as part of the total. I didn't realize I could list them separately on the complaint and ask for them. Again, my mistake.

Summary....I think the magistrate was extra chatty/helpful today because of the amazingly light court load. He took the time to mention things to both myself and the tenant. Strangely, he took the time to look over my lease (first time).

I think I need to reevaluate (reeducate) some of my basic understandings of the process. It was eye opening and how I imagine a court is supposed to operate.

I'm not thrilled to admit my ignorance, but I post it here in hopes of helping someone else understand.

Thanks again for everyone who took the time to respond and share your hard earned wisdom. I genuinely appreciate it. :)

NC investor. Do I understand you correctly that even w the waiver you still have to provide a notice (??) or if I have the waiver, I can file on the 15th w no demand for payment? Sorry, I'm lost.

For example, my lease states that they waive the requirement for a ten day notice. That they also agree to accept electronic communications as official notices, and that I file for evictions on the 15th. What would be my requirements under this scenario? Just to be safe, I still mail the 10 day, shoot them a text informing them that I have not received the rent, and I will attach a pic of the ten day, just to be safe. In an ideal world, (and what I hope I am understanding) is that because of the waiver, I can send a courtesy text reminding them of the delinquent rent and also a reminder of our agreement about filing on the 15th.

I appreciate any clarification on this you can help me with, including any resources that would fully explain this scenario. I will be doing some research later this evening.

Correction...I should've said "Hat channel running perpendicular to the existing joist." (minimal contact). I am planning a soundproof wall in a unit as well. I just went back and reviewed my notes.

1Gr81(NC)

Congrats on your win yesterday! I am always required to provide a copy of the lease to the court. It's the first thing they ask for.

NC LL/Tenant Laws on notice:

NC requires a notice unless your lease specifically excludes it by waiving the requirement which your does. But waiver or not we can't file against a tenant for breach until the 11th day from the initial date of the breach. So for rent, if it is due on the 1st, which is the standard, you cannot file until the 11th. No exceptions (well there is one if it is an emergency i.e. drug dealing but good luck getting that through).

So what is the benefit of the waiver? It simply saves the LL from having to remember to send the notice on day 2 so that you can proceed as quickly as possible. Which leads me to wonder why you have the have the waiver but do you not file until the 15th. Waiting 4 days is needlessly costing you money.

As for still sending notices or reminders. I do it as well. I would much rather get paid than evict.

Are you sending an invoice for the 5% late fee on the 6th? You should and be sure to add it if you go to court.

Does your lease include the cost of filing fees and court appearances? Those costs should be added to your money judgements. You can charge 10% of the rent for filing and 10% for appearance and 12% for appeal appearances but you can only charge for one. Does your lease include the right to legal fees if you have an atty represent you?

I have on occasion actually filed knowing the tenant would pay. It has worked like a charm getting some hardcore perpetually late payers to fall in line. Of course the cost for filing is passed on to them.

Did you know that in NC we can terminate possession without terminating the lease thereby keeping them responsible for the rent?

There are a lot of great protections you can add into your lease. Read all of the laws thoroughly and use it to your advantage.

Thanks for the response, NC investor.

I have been very fortunate over the last few years and have not had to make an appearance in small claims. Not that I don't have tenants sneak out...I just haven't had to evict anyone lately. I guess it's left me woefully behind on some of the laws. My mistake. I should also point out that I am increasingly using month to month leases. I never really found a lease to protect me. Quite the opposite.

Lots of great info in your post!! Thank you for taking the time to share. I genuinely appreciate it.

The answers...

Yes to most. I was not aware of the options for choosing to charge a percentage of one of the things you mentioned. Good to know. Also, although the magistrate usually confirms that I have the lease, this was the first time he actually took the time to read over it and give some advice. For a moment I thought I had messed up, but quickly understood that he was trying to help me. I was grateful.

As far as the 15th being the day I post, it goes back to my conservative habits and also allows for a ten day period after the 5th (when rent is "late"). Always trying to find a balance and a way to CMA. ;) I will probably continue w that policy, at least w the tenants who are normally "good". I am grateful to know there is an option for those that are not. I have the 15th written into my lease so I may need to exclude that on future leases to allow for the 11th. I will be contemplating all of these options going forward.

Probably, out of fear of making a mistake, and needing to restart the process, I have always been very conservative with the amounts that I ask for(and possibly because of some bad advice). Embarrassingly, I never realized that things could be itemized on the complaint. I was always under the impression that only the past due rent was placed there. That has officially been remedied. :)

To be perfectly honest, by the time I actually have to go to court, I'm 'done' w the tenant, and ready for them to be gone. I never expect to see any judgement money and as stated previously, the tenants rarely show up for court anyway, so no money judgement is given. Whatever amount I put down seems irrelevant. In a pre-divorce world, I had some class-A/B homes where the tenants were collectible, but they were also the homes that I had the least problems with. (Also the least return.) Most of my remaining homes are C/D, and the tenants are uncollectible but a much better return (if they pay..lol).

This recent eviction and the conversations surrounding it have reminded me that I need to tighten up my processes and education. Thank you for being a part of that.

I saw in an earlier post that you live two hours south of me. General Greene has seen 6"+ today. It's been fun. I hope you will also take some time out of your busy day and enjoy the frozen world. :)

Pay attention to NC INVESTOR because he has more experience overall, including being a broker, than me. I've had relatively few evictions and I've been lucky with most of those that I lucked into doing it right, and when I didn't the tenant didn't show so it was okay anyway.

I started texting on the second day after rent is due several years ago. "Rent? Everything okay?" because my lease says ON OR BEFORE the due date. I have had more than one tenant - GOOD ones - have a true issue with electronic transmission, etc. so I'm letting them know I haven't received their payment ASAP so they can fix it. NEXT DAY not 10 DAYS.

We've gotten 6" so far and it is still snowing. I don't know who is more excited about it me or my two golden retrievers!!

I still don't understand why you need the tenant there to get a MJ. I've gotten them with a no show.

I am intrigued that your C/D are more profitable. I have two that that are borderline C, a majority that are B and the rest are A. No doubt the A/B are the best tenants but they are also the most profitable with the fewest issues but more prima donnas (I feel sorry for their boyfriends/husbands).

I haven't been to court in a long time either but I ended up in appeal court yesterday. It was interesting.

The district court is concerned about the high eviction / MJ rate. They've come up with a program to encourage the LL/tenant work out a payment plan.

My atty and I agreed to let my former tenant pay $2,200 over a 3 month period with 1/3 due every 30 days. If she fails to make any payment on time agreement ends and she forfeits the right to appeal the decision.

If she does complete the payment plan then the MJ and eviction are vacated. They will only let the tenant do this one time so if she gets a clean record and messes up again this option is not available.

I think it could be a win/win. At this point any money I get is like found money and she seems motivated so we'll see.

I was very curious about the process you described, but didn't want to push my luck by asking too many questions. Thank you for explaining. It sounds like a solid idea...except for the many appearances.

Yes, I find it amazing that my magistrate (county rules?) won't grant a money judgement if the defendant isn't present. Seeing a light case load and not really having anything to loose, I was fully prepared to push my luck in court and ask "Why?", this time. Because my tenant showed up, it threw off my game plan and I ended up following her out into the hall to discuss her options, afterwards.

I need to pursue the reasoning behind this, but honestly wouldn't even know where to begin. I fell out of attending investor meetings, quite a few years ago. Seems like every speaker was just another infomercial. ugh.

Thanks again.

Our magistrates adhere to the "no money judgments" with a no-show too. They will only return possession.

But a judgement is pretty much worthless in NC anyway - no garnishment here for the average Joe so what do you do with one if you get it?

I do agree that under normal circumstances the MJ is worthless if your goal is to have the tenant pay you. But I still pursue them for two reasons:

One is that actions have consequences. The tenants will live with this for 7 years. However, the new regulations on reporting liens and judgements on credit reports will essentially eliminate that for renters but will continue to haunt someone hoping to buy a home.

The other is purely vindictive.

Fortunately many Charlotte property owners use PM's to ange their properties at least the A/B properties do. They all require written rental verification forms so if it doesn't appear on the CR's we still have a way to report their irresponsible behavior.

As to your "we aren't doing tenants any favors" nor are we are doing ourselves any favors either.

I used to be extremely soft on single mom's with kids. It took me forever before I would get them out. But my smarter half made me realize we give generously to charity and that I needed to stop treating the business as an extension of that charity so now there is no slack to anyone not paying. There is a lot of truth to the axiom that once they stop paying they also stop caring for the property.